Possible Abusive Situation

[BillyB]

Well well well ccrd14, it's a small world. I read visajourney forum for the 2nd time ever and saw your thread and thought I should recommend you to this RWD since you needed questions answered pertaining to your problem with a RW. And instead of giving you the link the home page, I give you the link to the first page of this thread to read a woman's side of story talking about you! People can read your story here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5089&st=0

Anyway, you seem like a calm man from the way you write instead of an angry and controling man portrayed. From what is said about you, you could be pissed off to the point you would break your keyboard typing. You still have an uphill battle to prove immigration fraud. If you pursue trying to get the wife deported, it'll help her case to prove you are neglecting her and a pissed off person hellbent on revenge. Maxx is the man to talk to about this in detail as he went through it. If true that your wife puts on a scene and acts immature by hitting and kicking you in public if she doesn't get her way, then you have a monster on your hands. It seems like marriage counseling is no good at this point. Best Wishes.

Billy

[BillyB]

ccrd14,

I read your post today at the other forum and you did tell her side of the story which falls in line with her story here.

I'm going to take your word that you have bought her the necessary things such as clothes and feminine supplies and I won't ask to see your credit card statements that you probably need to keep to prove to the judge you bought things for her as soon as she arrived and took her to restaurants to eat.

Anyway, what did you say to the guy that wants to beat the crap out of you according to what's said in the first post? I haven't seen any major compaining from your posts and thread and if anything, you are a calmer man than most in a situation like this. Anyway, I'm reluctent to take sides but your credibility goes up if you can prove your spending habits towards her.

[Jet]

I had a rather long and detailed reply to your post, however there seems to have been a server crash earlier this evening, so it's been lost. I have since read the thread Billy posted and it tells a bit of a different story than what you've posted here (your version). I don't intend to spend another hour and a half re-typing my original response, but I will say this.

Some of her actions were out of line, and clearly childish.

Some of those actions seem to be a direct result of mistakes YOU made.

This line "I told her that if she leaves she will not be coming back." will be used against you in the near future, and is the closest thing I can find in your version of events to true abuse.

From your post on the other board - She IS lying about only wanting a greencard. (this comment was designed to try to hurt you as much as she believes you hurt her - I would bet money on that!)

This relationship could have been saved had you not "kicked it up a notch" with the protective order.

You post also has raised some glaring questions:

How did you and your daughter make her feel in YOUR house, like it was "her house" or like she was a house guest?

What happened to all those "expensive Italian clothing and leather jackets and shoes"?

Why would you believe she'd feel comfortable and at ease in a strange country, by wearing strange clothes?

How much cash did you allot her for her own personal use without having to ask your permission to spend it? Was it at least 200.00 every 2 weeks?

 

 

[mischief]

Let's see… two opposite stories… 

Question, how come that she's been here for 5 months and he was only "about to file for her Adjustment of Status" according what he wrote on another board?   I've noticed on other board that she came on K3 visa, so he is supposed to file papers right away for her to get an immigrant status, a work permit and SSN… is it his way to make her feel comfortable in a country?

She packed her stuff and left him, just like that, no scandals, and no calling police stuff, nothing… I find it hard to believe that having a decent living condition and "good" husband, a woman would leave just because he didn't buy her something or because her friends told her so… it defeats the purpose of "fraud marriage" … she didn't get a Green Card since he didn't even file for adjustment…

She wasn't "a lazy a$$" after all (as some posters labeled her), she did cleaning and cooking and the guy conveniently didn't mind…

Interesting thing too: first he writes that she was spending his money in Ukraine on "expensive Italian clothing and leather jackets and shoes" and in the line below he writes that he took her shopping because she had one "pair of jeans, one skirt, one pair of shoes and tennis shoes" … where have all expensive stuff gone?

The guy sounds like a real trip to me…

[mischief]

LOL, Jet...just read your post - we are both wondering about expensive clothing...

[Daknack]

The woman is at fault totally and im embarassed for the men here that cant see that.

To the husband divorce her as fast as possible and show her no mercy.  Send me a PM I have a divorce attorneys name that will make her life a living hell.  One that woman left with the attitude of she was abused that marriage was done and over.

[BC]

Sounds like the 'Packed Bags Test' to me..

K3 means you were married.. your WIFE.

May seem ludicrous from the mans point of view but simply being your wife and her feeling like she is your wife are two worlds apart.

She obviously did not feel like she was your wife.

Under these circumstances little things can add up quickly:

Don't send a wife an allowance.. get her ATM cards, credit cards as soon as possible after the ceremony.  I think many men miss the point and think she will cash out or go crazy or something.. hells bells, you can monitor purchases almost by the minute online and cancel or restrict the cards if things go crazy(after you talk to her of course)... The act of giving her one of your ATM viable cards before returning to the US is a statement from you that you trust your wife.. that's what she probably wanted and needed.

After arrival did you get to the bank and open a joint account?  Let her open your mail? Look at your pay statement? Tell her where insurance and other important papers are kept? Review them with her?

With your own child in the house jealousy issues will arise.. both material and emotional.. on both sides.  Did you sit down with them both together to establish authority parameters?  Do things together to create an 'our daughter' environment or did you feel like the middleman being torn apart between the two?

Getting the immigration paperwork done asap is key.. If she feels like she is in limbo status it will nag her til no end.. sort of like having to waiting for your final approval stamp. 

Simple conversations.. replacing 'mine' with 'our'.. 'me' with 'we' etc might sound small but believe women in this situation are very, very sensitive  to  such miniscule slips.

Sure some women may be like kids in a candy store.. quite normal!  I can remember going a bit nuts buying baby stuff.. it took a medium sized u-haul truck to get it all here, filled half the house, enough gadgets and toys to appease a good size day care center..  We talked about this together and I realized that such was not possible with her first child in RU. She was only doing the best possible 'under the circumstances'  for our newborn.. exactly as she had done in RU! The positive effect was that she felt good and secure about being a mother and being able to provide for our children..  for the first time in her life!

I could go on and on.. but it's all about her feeling secure in her new environment and good about herself and the decision she made to marry you.

Not going to point a finger but when marrying a FSU woman you have to give her every bit of respect, power, authority and treat her exactly the same way you would if you had married a local woman.  I'm quite sure an AW under the same circumstances would have walked after the first week and not waited patiently 5 months..

IMHO this was a simple test that many if not most of us have experienced.. It was all about you and not her.

[BC]

Daknack,

You really know too little to be giving any kind of RW related advice.

[Daknack]

I dont care of she came from russia or mars.  This isnt a RW issue its a marriage issue and anyone married is qualified to give advice on that issue.  Once the abuse word was used there is no going back because the threat is too great. He did not make it unsalvagable with a protective order, he did the responsable thing to protect himself his daughter and their future.  Abuse is never a word to be used loosely and must be said with great caution.  His duty now is to protect himself and his daughter (who all of you have forgotten other then to imply she must not have been nice to his wife jump to conclusions much?).  He must show no mercy as none will be shown him.  Ask for no quarter and give none.  Ignore your feelings, and any love you have they will blind you from your new duty: Self Preservation.  I made the mistake in my divorce of trying to compromise and deal honestly and fairly with my ex, allowing my love to cloud my judgment and it was used against me at every turn. 

To the husband, post no more on this subject, the posts will be used against you, say no words ever to your "wife" and her friends.  They are now your enemy and they must be treated as such.  Do not look for sympathy or help from many of the men here as you are at fault my virtue of your penis.  Here it seems you have only 3 potential allies, myself, rando, and billyb.  If you need a loan to hire a good lawyer PM me.  Unlike many here, Im willing to put my money where my mouth is and act in behalf of my beliefs.  This is a serious offer.  If you want to post, continue to do so but I recommend never post of your situation until its finished.  ALso Maxx here when he is back from vacation may prove a valable ally.  Hes got a good heart, but knows first hand the deception a RW can do as well as her ability to get allies in the Russian community to ally against you.  When I see BS like this it only shows you are a fool if you do not get a prenup.

[Rvrwind]

I have been quiet throughout this thread for several reasons.

The biggest is, in my 50+ years of living on this earth I learned one very important thing - Stay out of other peoples personal lives - it will come to no good getting involved. It is between the two people in the relationship & no outsider & I do mean no outsider will ever know the real truth of what happened between those two people behind closed doors. 9 times out of ten when an outsider gets involved they wind up being the bad guy. Step back, walk away & let them sort out their own problems is the best & only advice that should be given by anybody, regardless of the law or personal opinion.

I was involved in a situation many  years ago where I saw a man beating his wife physicaly, I stepped in & grab him & threw him to the ground & when he tried to get up I flattened him again. I bet you can't even fathom what happened next. The woman jumped on my back & started pummelling me about the head & screaming at me to leave him alone. Here she is with a swollen eye & bleeding lip from him punching her & I step into help her & she turns on me like a rabid dog. That taught me a very important lesson which I have never forgotten - people are in these situations because they put themselves there, if they wanted out there are ways & means to achieve that without an outsider getting involved!

For Matthew - Sorry my friend but as much as I like you I have to disagree with you, there is such a thing a emotional abuse & in my opinion it is way more damaging than physical abuse. How do I know? Well suffice to say that as a child I was a victim of both & although I won't go into details I will say simply that bruises & cuts heal, the phsycological effect on ones persona & in ones brain takes much, much longer to overcome, believe me, I know. I'll leave it at that.

And you know bloody well I am no whiner, so I don't mention this lightly.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[CG]

Daknack,

You really know too little to be giving any kind of advice.

~CG

[Daknack]

Welcome back CameraGuy

[Jet]

DaKnack,

If in fact your views are as you've stated on this page, I would STRONGLY encourage you to end your pursuit of an RW immediately, before you destroy your life as well as that of the woman you end up with

[Bruno]

This line "I told her that if she leaves she will not be coming back." will be used against you in the near future, and is the closest thing I can find in your version of events to true abuse. 

Funny, i have say the same word to my ex-russian wife but she have never use it for justify a abuse...

Maybe it is because our law is better make that the US one... here, partner are obligate to life together when they are married... if one of the partner quit the familial home, this is a negatif side in case of divorce...

In my case, a little story on how i have say these word :

- REW ( russian ex-wife ) : I have find a rich man who have promise me a world trip. I will go life with him now but if it is not working with him, i will come back with you.
- ME :  You are free to make what you will, you are not in jail... but if you leave, no need to come back, i am not a reserve wheel....

So, if i follow the JET logic, i am the abuser ... same if the women is unfaithfull, same if she break her marriage vow... i was victim of a GCG... she is not the victim... she suck me for money... never work... use our  social system for a state basic income...  and work in black... 

I think that it is time to make a new revolution... one where men will ask the SAME right that women... yes, now, women have more right that men....

[BC]

Bruno,

GCG (GreenCardGirl) does not necessarily equal BBD (BiggerBetterDeal)

Men go to FSU to find their BBD but often fail to realize that in order to keep her you also have to be her BBD!

[Son of Clyde]

I agree that emotional abuse can have a far reaching effect. Physical wounds can heal in time. Emotional abuse may take a long time to heal  and may  leave festering emotional wounds for the rest of the person's life. Therapists are not always the answer. I went to Catholic school and I had a nun in 5th grade who beat the crap out of us for not knowing the correct answers to oral quizzes. I was not any more special than anyone else, she beat us all for the pleasure of it. I was so fearful of her that I would draw a blank and end up getting whacked when I had studied the night before. It is like the Khafka novel about a man being arrested for a crime he knows nothing about. She was into physical abuse because she was a sadist, not that we always earned it. It was decided that it be best I enroll in public school. When my parents finally took me out of that school the nun told me I would never amount to anything and my problems would  follow me wherever I went.  Not a kind thing to tell an 11 year old child. To this nun I was her failure and it was something she had to live with. So I hate the school system almost as much as Daknack and I  believe in emotional abuse. We need teachers who can  make a difference. And spousal abuse can be as much mental as physical abuse. These wounds over time can be very damaging.

[Daknack]

SoC I think there is a big difference between saying things like that to a small child with little inner strength and reserve.  As adults when someone tells us things like that we have the capacity to tell them to screw off because we know better.  Children dont understand the world around them.  Hell my ex used to get mad and throw things at me.  I never really got hurt and while that behavior probably was abusive, I certainly dont feel like Im a battered husband that needed to be coddled as though I were some kind of victim.  I guess Im feeling that as adults we need to have more inner reserve and define ourselves by our standards and not that imposed on us by a parent, child, spouse, internet bald guys opinions.

My issue with "emotional abuse" is its legal status.  Im not advocating people treat each other like crap and Im getting annoyed at being painted with that brush like Im some mean guy that likes to kick puppies and take candy from little children (when Im actually the guy teaching them to read in school and how to do math).

Im a firm believer in the foundations of this nation including free speech.  It can sometimes be hurtful to hear things an a$$hole says but as supposedly mature adults we should be able to say screw you.  Hell I was thinking this most of my life when I had to deal with things (and believe me Rvr I do know what your talking about Ive been there).  These things affect everyone in different ways.  But In no way would I want to codify legally things you shouldnt be allowed to say under any circumstances.  Part of the problem with "emotional abuse" is its often just labeled abuse which is a catch all.  In addition it affects people differently, what is "emotionally abusive" to your neighbor may be seen as being overly sensitive to you.  In addition to that, its awfully hard to prove something said to someone.  Its quite easy to fake "emotional abuse" and you sure as hell cant see it.  When it comes to the legal system I can not accept things I cant see or touch as "evidence".  I can accept it as testimony, but never "exhibit A".  These things are open to anyones opinion with many shades of grey.  I dont like shades of grey in the legal system.

Then again maybe Im a royal ba$tard and should take up kicking puppies.

[ccdr14]

Emotional abuse?? Please ...in this case, give me a break. What about the "emotional abuse" which was inflicted upon not only me but also my 15 year old daughter by what my wife has done. I married this woman out of love and respect. The late nights I would sit down with her and practice her English so she could better communicate with people. She up and left with no prior warning or indication. Just the evening before she left we had all gone out shopping and were laughing and joking with each other. My daughter had taken her arm and was walking down the isles of the stores together as if everything was peachy-keen.

Some of you lead me to believe I should have bowed down to her and given her anything she asked for simply because she was a strange person in a strange land. For God sakes she is 41 years old...an adult. Her better then anyone should realize that money doesn't grow on trees.

Not allowing her to work?? B.S. Evidently some of you people don't completely read the posts. I refuse to allow her to work illegally, PERIOD!!! I reassured her many times that it takes months to get the necessary documents approved from the goverment. I can't do anything more then that. This isn't the Ukraine where you can pay the goverment worker a few American dollars for a document to be immediately approved. I've been there-done that.

SO some of you people go ahead and "Boo-Hoo" about emotional abuse. This wasn't the case. It unfortunately does happen in our world and this I abhore.

[BC]

ccdr14,

Do you see any faults at all on your side where you could have handled the situation better?

[edit]  btw.. no one here seems to have accused you of emotional abuse. It's quite usual for forum threads to wander a bit.

[ccdr14]

Good question!!! YES, I certainly do. I belioeve that I should have takne much more time with her. Getting to know her far better then I did and not refusing to see or admit that there are problems with her personality as far as temper and immediate gratification.

Please don't get me wrong or take this the wrong way. She is a very sweet woman and this is what I saw in her everytime I would go to Ukraine and visit. Although there were times over there where she would sort of loose her patience over the smallest of things. And I do mean loose her patience. I would think that this her "their" (Ukrainian) way of dealing with small issues. Whereas if the same situation were to have happened to me, it wouldn't have bothered me at all.

Her tastes ran on the very expensive side and while in her country I would say things like it is too expensive or I cannot afford that. She would tell me "no problem" or "I understand". Once I was back in the U.S. and sending her moeny for her family and house I would talk to her on the phone to make sure she got it. I would ask about her household expenses and make sure everything was taken care of. I was worried about her and concerned. Wanting to make sure she was o.k. and that her bills were being paid.

BUt back to the main question. Yes, I would definitley have spent much more time getting to know her far better then I did. But then how often do we here in America think we know our Fiance before getting married only to find out she or he isn't really what we thought??

[BC]

ccdr14,

Seems anywhere but in your home town extra, extra, extra, extra care and time is needed to evaluate your partner. 

At 'home' (wherever that may be) 'Real' dating is a process of equalization between the partners to reach a mutual comfort level with each other, maybe, just maybe leading to something more long term.. Also we usually have common friends, gossip, a rough idea what's going to be involved in the relationship and our peers who look and relate their pro/con thoughts to us..  Actually a lot of useful 'background' noise that adds up. In FSU we can't hear or understand this noise and in many ways are blind to the surreal situation we build in our heads.

I've been married a couple of times and the marriages weren't disasters from the outset or bad choices.. they simply 'died out' in the long term either through changed goals or not enough effort invested in the relationship.  All-in-all good experiences in many ways so I don't really accept your argument that a fiancee in the FSU is just as risky as one at home.

Of course it's impossible to say how things will turn out, but I think you will find that realizing what actually happened is important for both of you to be able to constructively settle the situation and move on to whatever lies ahead.  Seeking blame is not very rewarding.. seek discovery and solutions instead and you will sleep a lot better.

[Son of Clyde]

ccdr14,

I am now feeling neutral and see that I cannot objectively know your situation.

There are two sides to every marriage. You cannot be 100% innocent and she cannot be 100% guilty.

I suggest you see a therapist with an interpreter. Consider the culture shock. Yes, in Ukraine there are upscale stores but it is not like where you are living where there are upscale stores everywhere.

If you cannot reach a compromise with her on spending, there is trouble. It took my wife a while to learn about a budget. Now she wants to work and help me out with expenses. Yes, she wanted everything she saw at first but I got angry with her more than once. She now understands I got angry because I want to save for the things she wants and our family needs. She cannot have it all right now.

[Rando]

Jet

My laptop keys are sticking B and also S.. on my keyboard...sorry....I do know how to spell dumbest....you have always been in that group even before they got rid of you as a mod over at RWG...:-)

Im taking it this man has married a beautiful FSU woman as the men who marry the ugly ones never seem to have a problem...;-)

[Rando]

Helen....

Everyone understands you ...there is no need to describe you...

[Rando]

I feel sorry for your wife BC...lots of these women marry below themselves first and then trade up after a while.