Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[OlgaH]

Being unrealistic is not a sin, nor does it default to "golddigger".

Of course not, sometimes it is just immaturity, naïvety, ignorance, silliness, stupidity, egocentrism, inability to evaluate situations, own abilities, accept reality and so on. 

[Boethius]

Boethius,
 
 I think, it is all about being honest not only with yourself but with your future partner too. If a FSUW was deceived by a foreign man I can understand your position. But I also think that a FSUW should bear not less responsibility for her actions when she decides to change her life of her own free will.

 
 Yes, I agree with that Olga, but am giving a different perspective as well.
 

FSUW don't really seem to buy into that whole "in sickness and in health, in poverty and in wealth...til death us do part" thing.

To some extent, I disagree with that, Ed.  I think you can find that among FSU individuals, but you can find the same in Western society. 

My FSUM (who has just returned from Ukraine) does agree with you, saying the masses are on the same level as the ruling class - the environment indulges cheating, stealing, raping, etc.   The society created no normal ideals (and hasn't, he says, since the Revolution).  He says religion still plays a role here.  He also says he had hoped it would change with the collapse, but "most of the normal people left the country."

[calmissile]

He also says he had hoped it would change with the collapse, but "most of the normal people left the country."

After reading the "Psychologically Damaged" thread, and this thread.... Maybe he is correct!   

So why are WM fishing in this pond anyway?  Must be the beauty factor!

[ECOCKS]

 
 Yes, I agree with that Olga, but am giving a different perspective as well.
 
To some extent, I disagree with that, Ed.  I think you can find that among FSU individuals, but you can find the same in Western society. 

My FSUM (who has just returned from Ukraine) does agree with you, saying the masses are on the same level as the ruling class - the environment indulges cheating, stealing, raping, etc.   The society created no normal ideals (and hasn't, he says, since the Revolution).  He says religion still plays a role here.  He also says he had hoped it would change with the collapse, but "most of the normal people left the country."

If I ever get up that way, I gotta go have a cup of coffee with your husband.

We'll have a looooooong chat I am sure.

Of course there are exceptions. My opinion though is that the percentages are off, maybe even reversed from what western men expect. I'm thinking 90% have this attitude and will walk in times of trouble. Trouble meaning times when it's especially important for two people, supposedly in a long-term relationship, to be pulling through rough spots towards better ground.

[GQBlues]

Seriously though, I'm not quite sure how a thread like this even solicited this much attention, much less debate. The topic woman was suggesting a lifestyle preference which most, if not the great majority, of AMs passing through here cited ad nauseum that that's exactly the type of woman they are searching for that prompted to head out to FSU.
 
>> I'm going to search in FSU for a traditional woman who would put more value to 'homelife' before her career. Unlike AWs. <<
 
I mean, why all the screaming fellas? It seems to me you're getting exactly what you've been bargaining for. Or was that just BS?
 
If that isn't the reason why most of you are wife-hunting in FSU, then what's the real reason ( )?

[onlyFSU4me]

Why do you assume she is a golddigger?  Because she wants to be a housewife?  Is there something wrong with that?  Education in Ukraine is practically free.  Why do you assume she would know what education costs in the US (and BTW, a perfectly good education can be obtained for far less than $100,000 or $200,000)?

Since many forty something WM are looking for women who are much younger, or women of their age with grown children, how many options does she really have?  She has expanded the parameters of what is acceptable in age gaps to adjust to the market.
           

Being unrealistic is not a sin, nor does it default to "golddigger".

From her side, she could say is it unreasonable, for a loyal wife, to be treated as second class because she is foreign born? 

I don't think it is too much to ask, as long as it is all laid out early, and it was.  A true golddigger with nefarious purposes would not have been so open.

 No, I dont assume she's a golddigger because she wants to be a housewife, I assume it because she contacted a man 30 years older than her and expects him to fund her childrens college education by himself, not with her helping out to pay for it. And as for expanding her market... my wife is 40 years old and she or her friends around her age who are looking for a foreign man wouldn't even consider a 30 year age difference. A couple of them also have teenage kids but that still doesn't make them consider a 68 year old man for marriage. 


 I have no problem with a woman coming to live here just to be a housewife, I even told my wife if thats what she wanted to do I'd be fine with that. I make a good enough living that we could live comfortably without the extra income. But she's too active a person to be happy doing this and knows that if she does work then we'd be in a better position to take that extra vacation every year, or buy that special something we want. She's already planning what she wants to do once she arrives here. That is the general attitude I've found with most FSU women I met when I was searching. Most of them wouldn't be happy just staying at home and taking care of the household duties, they want more out of life than that. It has nothing to do with feeling like second class citizens because they are foreign like you imply.


 You say you can get two girls a perfectly good education for under 100,000? Care to back that up? I was basing that number at a low estimate of 15,000/year each X 4 years for a total of 120,000. Of course you can go to some kind of trade school for cheaper but to get a bachelors degree of some kind would probably cost a lot more than that. And this lady has a computer at home and according to what Doug said is quite fluent in english so it wouldn't be hard for her to look up these costs before demanding that a man pay for this. My wife has no problem finding anything she wants to know about my city right from her computer in Ukraine.

[GQBlues]

..You say you can get two girls a perfectly good education for under 100,000? Care to back that up? I was basing that number at a low estimate of 15,000/year each X 4 years for a total of 120,000. Of course you can go to some kind of trade school for cheaper but to get a bachelors degree of some kind would probably cost a lot more than that. And this lady has a computer at home and according to what Doug said is quite fluent in english so it wouldn't be hard for her to look up these costs before demanding that a man pay for this. My wife has no problem finding anything she wants to know about my city right from her computer in Ukraine....

My wife finished a State University and got her degree (3 years). She also had to go to a city college first for her qualifying transitional studies and language improvement. Then she had to take her CPA studies/exam which cost  more money. I spent a lot less than $40K. She dreams of pursuing her Master, which I fully support if and when she decides she wants it. This is her future, and it is as important to me as it is for her and us.
 
Additionally, she also expressed a keen interest in getting certified as an Interior Designer. She designed the color palette in our new home and it turned out wonderful.
 
Had I married the single Mumski woman I was also interested in at the time and married her instead, I would've done the very same thing for her and her daughter.
 
Now, had this gal told me at the time she wanted to stay home and be useless in life, I'd kick her to the curb pronto for no other reason I abhor useless, submissive women.
 
I can keep a clean home myself, and had all my life, and for any woman to delegate such duties being a gender specification, then I don't have any longing for such a woman. Nothing wrong with such, it's just that that type is not for me. I clean when there's cleaning to do. Cook when there's cooking to do and my wife does the exact same thing. We get along perfectly happy and fine.

[mies]

If I ever get up that way, I gotta go have a cup of coffee with your husband.

We'll have a looooooong chat I am sure.

Of course there are exceptions. My opinion though is that the percentages are off, maybe even reversed from what western men expect. I'm thinking 90% have this attitude and will walk in times of trouble. Trouble meaning times when it's especially important for two people, supposedly in a long-term relationship, to be pulling through rough spots towards better ground.

I am curious on what statistics do you build your dirty insinuations thinking which transpires through a number of threads in this forum. How big is the sample? What are the age groups? Are you talking of intra- or inter-national marriages? Based on real life examples which you personally observed, do American women act in a same manner or not? How about American men?
and so on.
Could you please tell how many FSU women do you personally know who left their husbands in times of trouble, how many - didn't? what kind of troubles were those? And add a little information on these women and their husbands and marriages overall (years married, children in family or not, any other relevant details). This will be very helpful to make your hypothesis credible. Thank you.

And to explain my skepticism towards your "words of wisdom" which you so eagerly preach onto forgiving ears of your Ukrainian students (is it even ethical to add this bundled "wisdom" in addition to English classes? I personally would not want my instructor to be mentoring me on personal relationship and attacking me emotionally, I presume you would not be able to do the same in American educational institution, or else your students would have filed complaints about you to administration, but i digressed) - I don't know even one (1) woman in Ukraine who left her husband in the time of hardship. Your thinking does not resonate with me at all.

[Boethius]

 No, I dont assume she's a golddigger because she wants to be a housewife, I assume it because she contacted a man 30 years older than her and expects him to fund her childrens college education by himself, not with her helping out to pay for it. And as for expanding her market... my wife is 40 years old and she or her friends around her age who are looking for a foreign man wouldn't even consider a 30 year age difference. A couple of them also have teenage kids but that still doesn't make them consider a 68 year old man for marriage. 

There is a RW who posts here whose American husband is 40 years older than she.  She is a decade younger than your wife.   

Does that automatically make her a golddigger?

You can't make this assumption as a "fact" without looking inside the woman's heart and brain.

Personally, I think this sounds like a woman looking for a man to "rescue" her, rather than a golddigger.   

I have no problem with a woman coming to live here just to be a housewife, I even told my wife if thats what she wanted to do I'd be fine with that. I make a good enough living that we could live comfortably without the extra income. But she's too active a person to be happy doing this and knows that if she does work then we'd be in a better position to take that extra vacation every year, or buy that special something we want. She's already planning what she wants to do once she arrives here. That is the general attitude I've found with most FSU women I met when I was searching. Most of them wouldn't be happy just staying at home and taking care of the household duties, they want more out of life than that. It has nothing to do with feeling like second class citizens because they are foreign like you imply.

You haven't even lived with her yet.  Big plans are great, and I'm sure your wife will work, but reality is usually a little different than plans.   

The second class remark had to do with attitude.

they want more out of life than that

I wanted to comment on this.  Wanting "more" is okay, but I hope you are not implying that taking care of a house and family is not "enough".  It is, and creating a happy home, filled with love, is probably the most important thing anyone can do.

You say you can get two girls a perfectly good education for under 100,000? Care to back that up? I was basing that number at a low estimate of 15,000/year each X 4 years for a total of 120,000. Of course you can go to some kind of trade school for cheaper but to get a bachelors degree of some kind would probably cost a lot more than that

See GQ's post above.  He lives in California.

Many state universities have tuition of around $5000 annually (I did look it up, if you really need links).   Most students do work in the summer to supplement their educations.  So your $100,000 is way off base.

Not everyone needs to go to an Ivy League School.

And this lady has a computer at home and according to what Doug said is quite fluent in english so it wouldn't be hard for her to look up these costs before demanding that a man pay for this. My wife has no problem finding anything she wants to know about my city right from her computer in Ukraine.

Yet you have a computer, speak fluent English, and didn't bother to look it up before tossing out a figure of $100,000 to $200,000.

[Patagonie]

My wife finished a State University and got her degree (3 years). She also had to go to a city college first for her qualifying transitional studies and language improvement. Then she had to take her CPA studies/exam which cost  more money. I spent a lot less than $40K. She dreams of pursuing her Master, which I fully support if and when she decides she wants it. This is her future, and it is as important to me as it is for her and us.
 
Additionally, she also expressed a keen interest in getting certified as an Interior Designer. She designed the color palette in our new home and it turned out wonderful.
 
Had I married the single Mumski woman I was also interested in at the time and married her instead, I would've done the very same thing for her and her daughter.
 
Now, had this gal told me at the time she wanted to stay home and be useless in life, I'd kick her to the curb pronto for no other reason I abhor useless, submissive women.
 
I can keep a clean home myself, and had all my life, and for any woman to delegate such duties being a gender specification, then I don't have any longing for such a woman. Nothing wrong with such, it's just that that type is not for me. I clean when there's cleaning to do. Cook when there's cooking to do and my wife does the exact same thing. We get along perfectly happy and fine.

.
 
In case of you divorce GQ, let me know, i have always dream to have a gay marriage with such a man as you. 

[Boethius]

If I ever get up that way, I gotta go have a cup of coffee with your husband.

We'll have a looooooong chat I am sure.

Well, you wouldn't be happy with his views of "entitlement".  LOL.


You know, I was looking back at a lot of FSUW I've known and, having just returned from Ukraine, also some of the stories of neighbours, now in their thirties, who are married.  Most of the FSUW have known hardships in their marriages, such as a husband who drinks, who is unemployed, or who has been ill.  The ones married to drunkards are about 50/50 in divorce, usually after trying for years to "dry him out".  The ones married to underemployed men, or men who have been ill have stayed with their husbands.

[Boethius]

 
In case of you divorce GQ, let me know, i have always dream to have a gay marriage with such a man as you. 

Well, I knew he and I could never be a match because he doesn't like submissive women.

[calmissile]

Well, I knew he and I could never be a match because he doesn't like submissive women. 

One of the funniest lines in this thread!!

[Anotherkiwi]

...As I mentioned before in other threads a lot of RW work a lot and support their children and even husbands financially but not because they want to, because they have to. Some of them has a desire to stop being a working horse and wants to feel a weak lady, so they are looking for their prince overseas. It's their right.

Another thing I can't understand is why so many modern women are blamed for their desire to be housewives, that was a womens' role for ages, then there was a feminists' movement and what many countries have now is the inheritage of the past. Modern women have nothing to do with it, they were born after that and they have to live in this society. Blaming them for their desire to be housewives and stay at home moms saying it's not fashionable  is like blaming this particular 20 year old American for what his country did in Vietnam many years ago, he has nothing to do with it, he was born after the war. Who said that being a housewife and raising kids  is easier than being an accountant or a pharmacist, it has nothing to do with laziness as well. Each situation is different...

Vasilisa, what I'm sure you must realise from the time that you've spent in the USA is that, for many women, there is absolutely no choice about whether or not they must work or can stay at home.  Just like the rest of the world, costs are rising to such an extent that, in many cases, a family (or even a childless couple) could not survive without the wife's salary/wages.  If the wife in such a case is an FSUW one sincerely hopes that the husband made her fully aware of his financial situation before she moved halfway around the world.
 
In my own case, I could support a wife who didn't work.  However, if she wanted to work, and could find a job which satisfied her, I would obviously have no objection - the annual trip to Russia would certainly be easier to afford.

[happyandstable]

 I have no problem with a woman coming to live here just to be a housewife, I even told my wife if that’s what she wanted to do I'd be fine with that. I make a good enough living that we could live comfortably without the extra income. But she's too active a person to be happy doing this and knows that if she does work then we'd be in a better position to take that extra vacation every year, or buy that special something we want. She's already planning what she wants to do once she arrives here. That is the general attitude I've found with most FSU women I met when I was searching. Most of them wouldn't be happy just staying at home and taking care of the household duties, they want more out of life than that. It has nothing to do with feeling like second class citizens because they are foreign like you imply.

   This has been my experience as well. Or Maybe onlyFUS4me and I are good at finding good women like OlgaH that want to use their brains for something more then wearing a hat.

 
Now, had this gal told me at the time she wanted to stay home and be useless in life, I'd kick her to the curb pronto for no other reason I abhor useless, submissive women.
 
I can keep a clean home myself, and had all my life, and for any woman to delegate such duties being a gender specification, then I don't have any longing for such a woman. Nothing wrong with such, it's just that that type is not for me. I clean when there's cleaning to do. Cook when there's cooking to do and my wife does the exact same thing. We get along perfectly happy and fine.

+1

I wanted to comment on this.  Wanting "more" is okay, but I hope you are not implying that taking care of a house and family is not "enough".  It is, and creating a happy home, filled with love, is probably the most important thing anyone can do.

 This is also just as valid.

   It seems to me that it is really all about the fact that everyone is an individual and they have different views on everything under the sun. The goal is to find someone that as closely as possible is a match for your view and you are a match for theirs. With enough of a difference so you can grow as a couple and expand you view of life and etc, etc, etc.

   Does that make someone a gold digger just because they want to sit at home and be a homemaker? No, but it doesn’t preclude it either.

   Are you warranted to a sense on entitlement due to youth and beauty?  That 30 year lady and mother of two will be 60 one day won’t she? I can not help but wonder how youthful and beautiful she will be after 30 years sitting on a couch. Beauty fades and youth passes away so how much can that be really worth? If all they are bringing to the table is youth and beauty IMHO it is not worth enough to warrant that sense of entitlement. Now add a balanced demeanor, willingness to sit down and talk things out weighing pros and cons, expressing points of views (without taking cheap shots), is worth way more to me. A willingness to grow as a couple and as individual’s, isn’t life an endless learning experience after all.

Come on, it was a joke with truth in it.
there is nothing wrong with your desire to have an equal partner, the only thing I can't understand is why to look in Russia, in my opinion the US has a larger amount of women who share your point of view

   If you had read my previous post more carefully you would already know the answer to your question.
   I would also like to add that bad manner’s and entrenched attitudes, a successful argument do not make.

[Anotherkiwi]

...See GQ's post above.  He lives in California.

Many state universities have tuition of around $5000 annually (I did look it up, if you really need links).   Most students do work in the summer to supplement their educations.  So your $100,000 is way off base.

Not everyone needs to go to an Ivy League School.

Yet you have a computer, speak fluent English, and didn't bother to look it up before tossing out a figure of $100,000 to $200,000.

My turn to disagree, Boethius - it would be way more than that here.  Obviously situations regarding fees differ from place to place, but a child coming here as a MOB dependant is an "international" student, not a domestic one.  As such, they get charged a considerable amount - my local high school charges $15,000 a year for an international student (whereas a local pays nothing apart from "activity" fees, stationery, school uniform and so on), followed by a minimum of $24,000 a year at Auckland University (fee depends on the course - half the courses cost at least $4,000 more, and medicine is $64,000 from the second year onwards, compared with $11,000 for a New Zealander.  Other tertiary institutions charge different fees).  They don't become a domestic student until their permanent residency is approved, which normally takes at least three years.
 
Assuming that two children arrive ready to start university, the parents (or almost certainly the step-father) are likely to be up for at least $150,000.  If you haven't got that much to spare, find a woman without children!

[Gator]

Who said that being a housewife and raising kids  is easier than being an accountant or a pharmacist, it has nothing to do with laziness as well.

The mother of my sons stayed home.   It is indeed a job, and if done correctly it is just as demanding and difficult as most professional jobs.
 
I imagine that in the today's economy, most families need the income from both the husband and wife.  Perhaps some men who object to a woman staying home and raising kids simply can not afford it.  If so, he better have a large reserve built up to cover the acclimation period required before most RW can find a fulfilling job. 

[Boethius]

My turn to disagree, Boethius - it would be way more than that here.  Obviously situations regarding fees differ from place to place, but a child coming here as a MOB dependant is an "international" student, not a domestic one.  As such, they get charged a considerable amount - my local high school charges $15,000 a year for an international student (whereas a local pays nothing apart from "activity" fees, stationery, school uniform and so on), followed by a minimum of $24,000 a year at Auckland University (fee depends on the course - half the courses cost at least $4,000 more, and medicine is $64,000 from the second year onwards, compared with $11,000 for a New Zealander.  Other tertiary institutions charge different fees).  They don't become a domestic student until their permanent residency is approved, which normally takes at least three years.
 
Assuming that two children arrive ready to start university, the parents (or almost certainly the step-father) are likely to be up for at least $150,000.  If you haven't got that much to spare, find a woman without children!

A legal resident of California would qualify as a California resident, not as an international student.  USC Redland's tuition fee is just over $5000 annually.  An international student's tuition is double that.  In this type of fact situation, the children would be California residents, not international students.

Additionally, if a child is adopted by an American, he/she gets citizenship upon entering the United States.

[Gator]

My FSUM (who has just returned from Ukraine) does agree with you, saying the masses are on the same level as the ruling class - the environment indulges cheating, stealing, raping, etc.   The society created no normal ideals (and hasn't, he says, since the Revolution).  He says religion still plays a role here.  He also says he had hoped it would change with the collapse, but "most of the normal people left the country."

Of course there are exceptions. My opinion though is that the percentages are off, maybe even reversed from what western men expect. I'm thinking 90% have this attitude and will walk in times of trouble. Trouble meaning times when it's especially important for two people, supposedly in a long-term relationship, to be pulling through rough spots towards better ground.

These comments definitely hit a nerve.

I am curious on what statistics do you build your dirty insinuations thinking which transpires through a number of threads in this forum. How big is the sample? What are the age groups? Are you talking of intra- or inter-national marriages? Based on real life examples which you personally observed, do American women act in a same manner or not? How about American men?
and so on.
Could you please tell how many FSU women do you personally know who left their husbands in times of trouble, how many - didn't? what kind of troubles were those? And add a little information on these women and their husbands and marriages overall (years married, children in family or not, any other relevant details). This will be very helpful to make your hypothesis credible. Thank you.

And to explain my skepticism towards your "words of wisdom" which you so eagerly preach onto forgiving ears of your Ukrainian students (is it even ethical to add this bundled "wisdom" in addition to English classes? I personally would not want my instructor to be mentoring me on personal relationship and attacking me emotionally, I presume you would not be able to do the same in American educational institution, or else your students would have filed complaints about you to administration, but i digressed) - I don't know even one (1) woman in Ukraine who left her husband in the time of hardship. Your thinking does not resonate with me at all.

I have made similar comments about how a culture where corruption is prevalent surely has an effect on the moral fibre of its individuals.  And Mies and others have jumped on me.  There are exceptions, and the individual exceptions would indeed feel offended.
 
Here is my observation.  Within families and within a small circle of long-time friends, trust and respect and honesty are indeed preeminent, probably higher than in western societies.  Outside these two groups, however, there are some stark differences with what we are accustomed to in Western society.    Thus, the critical question:   is the husband a part of her family in name only, or is the connection a strong emotional one?   Hint:   merely being perceived and respected as a good provider, even a good man, is not the correct answer.
 
 

[ECOCKS]

 You say you can get two girls a perfectly good education for under 100,000? Care to back that up? I was basing that number at a low estimate of 15,000/year each X 4 years for a total of 120,000. Of course you can go to some kind of trade school for cheaper but to get a bachelors degree of some kind would probably cost a lot more than that. And this lady has a computer at home and according to what Doug said is quite fluent in english so it wouldn't be hard for her to look up these costs before demanding that a man pay for this. My wife has no problem finding anything she wants to know about my city right from her computer in Ukraine.

Easy enough to do in Tennessee as well.

Tuition and fees for one  in Memphis, TN (Resident, tuition and books).

Tuition and fees at Southwest Community college for two years: $15,000

Tuition and fees at University of Memphis for two years after transfer: $28,000

Books (4 years, with sell back):  $5,000

McDonald's is still hiring so no need for calculating in the costs of gas, clothing and food.

This isn't even considering the effect of grants, affordability adjustments or scholarships which could drastically reduce the cost.

For FSU children, I have had three students complete master's degrees (2 MBA's and 1 in Intl. Business) at reputable schools for free. One had to pay his visa, housing, books and transportation costs but had no tuition charges. The other two were completely, totally free except for any excess spending money for vacations, dates, luxuries and such. One worked during his studying to pay for those vacations and such, the other two chose not to do so.

I gave up on Ukrainians though since the vast majority can't be bothered to work hard enough for scholarships or competitive situations. They don't want it bad enough to work for it, just want it handed to them.

[ghost of moon goddess]

These comments definitely hit a nerve.
 

Thx, Gator

[Daveman]

Come on, it was a joke with truth in it.
there is nothing wrong with your desire to have an equal partner, the only thing I can't understand is why to look in Russia, in my opinion the US has a larger amount of women who share your point of view

As I mentioned before in other threads a lot of RW work a lot and support their children and even husbands financially but not because they want to, because they have to. Some of them has a desire to stop being a working horse and wants to feel a weak lady, so they are looking for their prince overseas. It's their right.
...

THIS is more important than guys realize.  Firstly - the mentality of FSUW concerning familial roles is very different.  MOST (with whom I have communicated... too many to count over the years) don't get the concept of "equal partners". They just don't.  They just flat DON'T get it.  They may pretend they get it, but they don't.  They think it is silly.


Secondly...
Kuna posted something a while which was said to him by his MIL at the time of his marriage.   

...
This is something my MIL told me the day before my wife and I married:

Women are weak, soft and gentle,  this is what men like.  Men have to be strong and always protect the family, especially the wife.  If a man does not do this it is OK because the wife will become strong and she will protect the family - but then she becomes hard,  and no man wants a woman who's become hard.  Kuna,  Always be strong for your family."

I thought this was one of the most insightful things anyone had ever told me,  and I think she is right.

...

I think she's spot on too.  "Strong/weak" roles is not "equality" to most FSUW minds.  I think Kuna's MIL comment applies to a woman who feels herself a workhorse as well. 


The mentality *is* different. 

[Daveman]

...
Here is my observation.  Within families and within a small circle of long-time friends, trust and respect and honesty are indeed preeminent, probably higher than in western societies.  Outside these two groups, however, there are some stark differences with what we are accustomed to in Western society.

stark differences being only in practice... western society is every bit as corrupt as Russia or Ukraine, varying only by nuance in practice.  Lie/cheat/steal/con/bribes/take advantage of the stupid, etc  are all mainstays on the menu in the west, just more sophisticated where their versions are more "in your face".  Granted, politicians don't shoot the opposition, or blow up their apartment buildings, but to believe that the west has actually evolved to some form of "higher level" is to partake of the the drug called self delusion.  Higher level of operating the scams - that's about it.


It's the individuals who rise above the sea of feces in either society who deserve our respect...

   Thus, the critical question:   is the husband a part of her family in name only, or is the connection a strong emotional one?   Hint:   merely being perceived and respected as a good provider, even a good man, is not the correct answer.

I agree.

[Muzh]

Ok I’ll step up to the plate and state for the record. I am not looking for a cheap cow. I am not even looking for a cow. I am looking for a truly equal life partner that wants to do more then sit a home and watch TV and complain about how bad her life is. In an equal partnership both parties have to take responsibility to work together toward the same goal of attaining that better life. IMHO if you can find such a life partner you have already achieved that better life, you are both hopefully looking for

Just curious, isn't this what the majority of them American "feminazis" want? A truly equal life partner?

There is no improvement of life if both parties are not working together for the common goal. You will never achieve anything by pulling in opposite directions.

Man, I'll hold you to that.

It is easy to complain about the opposite gender. It is far more insightful to try and understand their point of view. Communication is the key to any successful relationship no matter what kind of relationship that may be. It is by communication that we achieve personal growth. Without personal growth no one can have a full and happy life.

Wow. That is really deep. Seriously. Unfortunately, it will only apply to men looking for RWs.


Oh, I forgot. All AWs are fat pigs that wear sweatpants all the time while stuffing their faces.

Yea

Next philosopher.

[Muzh]

Well, Gator, you should know by now that if an old goat wants a young hot wife 30+ years younger, he should realize that she won't be with him just for his "hot wrinkled booty", you know. You should compensate, most probably by providing a much better lifestyle than she would have had with the man of her own age. Otherwise, he would just be used as a mule and dumped as soon as she can trade up/get a GC, get independent (good job etc.)
To pretend that you don't understand what your part is in ther arrangement leads to (sometimes ugly) divorves, and lots of whining on the forums 

Ahem, what are you doing running around with a pin bursting bubbles?