Aloe, the desperate housewife

[LiveFromUkraine]

The arguments surrounding the methods to diffuse similar situations certainly detracted from the main purpose of the thread, but it's no excuse to accuse others as potential 'wife beaters'

Typical behavior for some posters.

[Gator]

Spoon, a larger person should never hit a smaller person except in defense to prevent bodily injury.  To not accept that fact or to suggest Aloe would have injured her husband is condoning wife beating.  And if you condone wife beating, it is the same as being a wife beater. 

[Faux Pas]

Is that the best come back you got?  No different then Muzh's comment.  If he can build it why can't the rest of us?

Live, nothing in your last 10-15 posts here warrant a come back, much less my best. You are trying to support Aloe's hubby's actions where there are no justifications. Alas, you bring up DV survey websites to prove Aloe's hubby was justified, you still fail. It doesn't matter that she picked up a glass and was screaming her ass off, there is no justification to choke her, pin her or cause her physical harm/trauma. Just because he can, isn't a reason. I suspect I could smack you around the room a few times. Just because I can, is that a good enough reason?

[Gator]

REPEAT:
 

  I can now understand why one man chooses to live in Ukraine - American women would have nothing to do with such an attitude.

Or maybe he could never marry a foreign woman in America because the government would deny his fiancee visa petition under the IMBRA provisons.  Maybe.   

Do you want to hit me?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Live, nothing in your last 10-15 posts here warrant a come back, much less my best. You are trying to support Aloe's hubby's actions where there are no justifications. Alas, you bring up DV survey websites to prove Aloe's hubby was justified, you still fail. It doesn't matter that she picked up a glass and was screaming her ass off, there is no justification to choke her, pin her or cause her physical harm/trauma. Just because he can, isn't a reason. I suspect I could smack you around the room a few times. Just because I can, is that a good enough reason?

Where did I justify his actions?  Strawman... I think you missed many of my posts stating the opposite. 

I just don't entirely believe one sided stories.  It seems some people here do it selectively.

I brought that site up in response to Muzh posts that women are 99.9 the victim in domestic abuse cases.

I doubt you could smack me around the room but would be fun if you tried. 

[Spoon]

Spoon, a larger person should never hit a smaller person except in defense to prevent bodily injury.  To not accept that fact or to suggest Aloe would have injured her husband is condoning wife beating.  And if you condone wife beating, it is the same as being a wife beater.

I fully understand what you are saying Gator, that was my whole point -  in some circumstances physical intervention could be the only means possible, regardless of gender.

I am not applying it or condoning it in Aloe's case - quite the opposite, in fact. It was a serious assault.

[Faux Pas]

Where did I justify his actions?  Strawman... I think you missed many of my posts stating the opposite. 

I just don't entirely believe one sided stories.  It seems some people here do it selectively.

One side of the story is all we have. So you go reading tea leaves and concoct another side?

I brought that site up in response to Muzh posts that women are 99.9 the victim in domestic abuse cases.

Muzh is a pretty intelligent guy and can speak for himself. I took that post as a tongue in cheek or perhaps he hasn't seen an instance where it wasn't a woman. Maybe you should raise that point with him?

I doubt you could smack me around the room but would be fun if you tried.

I don't doubt it.

[Wayne]

I have to agree with gator, it seems that Aloe and her husband are having more and more serious problems as time goes by. Last winter, she wrote that she did not like living in Belgium and wanted to move to Canada. Now, she mentions going down under and trying life there.

Aloe has very good English skills, she is inteligent and someone said she is beautiful. So she has a lot of options. USA would also be a choice for her.

If her husband does not love her and take good care of her, then things won't get better. Staying together for another five months to get citizenship could be difficult.

In USA, we have 911 emergency service and a lot of support centers for women.

[LiveFromUkraine]

One side of the story is all we have. So you go reading tea leaves and concoct another side?

I am definitely not the only one concocting stories here.  Some people seem to know Aloe better then herself.

Muzh is a pretty intelligent guy and can speak for himself. I took that post as a tongue in cheek or perhaps he hasn't seen an instance where it wasn't a woman. Maybe you should raise that point with him?

I did raise the point with him when I quoted his post with the link.  You are the one making up stories about why I posted the link.

[Gator]

I fully understand what you are saying Gator, that was my whole point -  n some circumstances physical intervention could be the only means possible, regardless of gender.

I am not applying it or condoning it in Aloe's case - quite the opposite, in fact. It was a serious assault.

Thanks for the clarification.   In the context of Aloe's thread, it seemed you were leaning the other way.  Glad to know that you are among the vast majority who see it as assault and battery.     

[LiveFromUkraine]

Thanks for the clarification.   In the context of Aloe's thread, it seemed you were leaning the other way.  Glad to know that you are among the vast majority who see it as assault and battery.     

I haven't seen anyone else state otherwise.  I don't even think there is one person in this thread that thinks it is acceptable. 

[Gator]

Living in Ukraine, I am glad to know I was wrong about you. 
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Living in Ukraine, I am glad to know I was wrong about you.

Ah, so that quote about the reason for living in Ukraine was about me.   

I haven't lived in Ukraine for roughly 4 years.  No IMBRA problems either.  Now you can sleep well knowing the truth.   

[Slumba]

It is unfortunate what this thread has devolved into.  Basically my earlier post was the last one worth reading in this thread

[missAmeno]

So he jumped up and pushed me to the wall with his hand around my neck and when i was against the wall and choked for a second from his hand, he took the glass and let go my neck (so no glasses were broken), set the glass down, then grabbed me by the shoulders and started pushing and yelling. And by pushing i mean holding my shoulders (arms? above elbows) and walking towards me forcing me to step back, for the distance of about 3 meters. Dunno anymore what he was yelling then.

Guys, please read one more time. Not few steps back but 3 meters! And if his actions been not to control and intimidate her then moon is purple and has square shape. So please, think of of solutions and steps she should take to be safe instead of arguing if woman with glass in her hands is threatening or not.

[Maxx2]

And 99.99% of the time is the woman. (getting victimized)

Not so. The Feminist Big Lie


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence



More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals

Campaign group Parity claims assaults by wives and girlfriends are often ignored by police and media

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.
Similar or slightly larger numbers of men were subjected to severe force in an incident with their partner, according to the same documents. The figure stood at 48.6% in 2006-07, 48.3% the next year and 37.5% in 2008-09, Home Office statistics show.

[GoodOlBoy]

It is unfortunate what this thread has devolved into.  Basically my earlier post was the last one worth reading in this thread

Disagree completely!

It is always very enlightening to understand who is on these forums giving their advice.

GOB

[Gator]

 
Maxx, for cases when DV has resulted in homicide, what is the body count between men and women?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Guys, please read one more time. Not few steps back but 3 meters! And if his actions been not to control and intimidate her then moon is purple and has square shape. So please, think of of solutions and steps she should take to be safe instead of arguing if woman with glass in her hands is threatening or not.

Does her country have social services for domestic violence?  If so, she should learn more about the services and what they can do to help her if she needs to leave.

Maybe Shadow knows more about how things work there.

Her priority should be her physical safety even if that means going home.  I wouldn't even worry about citizenship if she doesn't feel safe or this happens again.

Besides that I can only think being prepared to leave fast.  Things like having a small bag packed with documents,  clothes, cash, cellphone, etc... 

[fathertime]

It looks to me like posters are taking 'Live from Ukraine' out of context.  The way I read it, he isn't condoning beating up a woman/wife.  He is simply stating violence often occurs from the woman to the man.  In the case here, assuming the facts are stated correctly, this lady should not have been choked or pushed.  Again based on what she is saying, she is now gambling with her health for a 'green card' or whatever card color it is in her adopted country.  If she is young and attractive, she can find another man that she can give/receive respect from, and she should move on.   


In addition somebody said here, 'a man should never hit a woman'.   I disagree with that 4-square.  If a woman were to physically attack me (perhaps even aggressively threaten me & make me think she was about to attack me), I would not hesitate to deck her, even if I'm 90 pounds heavier than her.  In American society, woman are often aggressive and if one were stupid enough to attack a full grown man, then it seems fitting that she should wind up on the floor, assuming I am quick enough to do it.  I've never had occasion to be violent towards a woman, but in my own head I've decided that I would.  I used to think differently but through the years I've seen enough to change my thoughts on the matter.   I'm not saying in ALL cases I would go straight to decking a woman, but definitely I can see some cases where I would try to.   


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

It looks to me like posters are taking 'Live from Ukraine' out of context. 

Thanks FT.  It seems to be a hobby for some posters so nothing suprising.

The way I read it, he isn't condoning beating up a woman/wife.  He is simply stating violence often occurs from the woman to the man.  In the case here, assuming the facts are stated correctly, this lady should not have been choked or pushed.  Again based on what she is saying, she is now gambling with her health for a 'green card' or whatever card color it is in her adopted country.  If she is young and attractive, she can find another man that she can give/receive respect from, and she should move on.   


In addition somebody said here, 'a man should never hit a woman'.   I disagree with that 4-square.  If a woman were to physically attack me (perhaps even aggressively threaten me & make me think she was about to attack me), I would not hesitate to deck her, even if I'm 90 pounds heavier than her.  In American society, woman are often aggressive and if one were stupid enough to attack a full grown man, then it seems fitting that she should wind up on the floor, assuming I am quick enough to do it.  I've never had occasion to be violent towards a woman, but in my own head I've decided that I would.  I used to think differently but through the years I've seen enough to change my thoughts on the matter.   I'm not saying in ALL cases I would go straight to decking a woman, but definitely I can see some cases where I would try to.   


Fathertime!

+1

Always best to walk away but there is no reason for allowing any type of violence to happen to you by anyone.

[GoodOlBoy]

Something else really concerns me.  I  recall a Belgium man joining RWD and making only one or two posts about his wife's housekeeping. I wish I could find that post as it seemed to me he was Aloe's husband.

I am looking for it also Gator.
I cannot find it, but I remember his post very clearly.
Up-thread I said to BC that I hope Aloe's computer is locked.
If her husband found this thread or her other post's it would probably be very bad news for her.
 
GOB

[LiveFromUkraine]

I am looking for it also Gator.
I cannot find it, but I remember his post very clearly.
Up-thread I said to BC that I hope Aloe's computer is locked.
If her husband found this thread or her other post's it would probably be very bad news for her.
 
GOB

Google is your friend. 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14138.0

I remember it and thought it was a member joking around.

[Faux Pas]

It looks to me like posters are taking 'Live from Ukraine' out of context.  The way I read it, he isn't condoning beating up a woman/wife. He is simply stating violence often occurs from the woman to the man.  In the case here, assuming the facts are stated correctly, this lady should not have been choked or pushed.  Again based on what she is saying, she is now gambling with her health for a 'green card' or whatever card color it is in her adopted country.  If she is young and attractive, she can find another man that she can give/receive respect from, and she should move on. 

 

Actually, it doesn't appear anyone took LFU out of context. It's irrelevant and off topic

In addition somebody said here, 'a man should never hit a woman'.   I disagree with that 4-square.  If a woman were to physically attack me (perhaps even aggressively threaten me & make me think she was about to attack me), I would not hesitate to deck her, even if I'm 90 pounds heavier than her. In American society, woman are often aggressive and if one were stupid enough to attack a full grown man, then it seems fitting that she should wind up on the floor, assuming I am quick enough to do it.  I've never had occasion to be violent towards a woman, but in my own head I've decided that I would.  I used to think differently but through the years I've seen enough to change my thoughts on the matter.   I'm not saying in ALL cases I would go straight to decking a woman, but definitely I can see some cases where I would try to.   


Fathertime!

If she's charging you with a knife or shooting at you with a gun self preservation certainly kicks in at some point. Short of that, there is no reason to physically harm or threaten to physically  harm any woman even if she has 90 pounds on you. Just get away. Those with the violent tendencies tend to want to stay and smack the woman. Sorry, it's not justified to hurt someone physically when you can get away. But, this wasn't the topic either, was it?

[Brianinaz]

Well I can state with certainty that I have been in front of a number of angry woman in my life and never really felt the threat of immediate physical harm from any of them. Maybe it's because of my size but, women just don't normally scare me. That is what we're talking about here right? Man being scared of woman so he roughs her up a bit, chokes her, pins her to the wall?

Same here, years ago I went out with my GF and she drank a bit too much. When we got home we got into a bit of an argument (don't remember about what) she pushed me up against a door with a hook in it that dug into my back and started to swing her fists at me. My response was to grab her wrists and hold them until she stopped and calmed down a bit. Men and women are not equal in this situation. Restrain a woman from hurting you sure an appropriate response. Out and out aggression as if it were a guy, unacceptable.
But really IMHO this is getting a little off track for Aloe. The issue is this is a progression of a pattern that is not going to change. It's not an isolated incident and to me that is the important point. The likelyhood that this fellow is going to turn into an axe murderer overnight is about about as small as him having a bright light revelation and turning into a loving husband who cares for her well being above his own, respects her, and cares about her happiness. The pattern of psychologic abuse will continue, and it is likely that there will be physical abuse going forward.
That is the important point for her is to see that this is an escalating pattern of abuse that has been going on for years, is not her fault and she should not blame herself for his actions, and is not going to change. Telling her to run for the door in the middle of the night in fear for her life is not helping her a lot IMHO