Am I in over my head

[ML]

I think on this site this is a loaded question 

Yes, should always stop at ear level so you can hear the husband/boyfriend arriving.

[ML]

Not many couples go to Turkey or Egypt, so it can be easily excluded.
$10,000 to get her to the USA? Spent for what?
I probably forgot a lot but I don't remember  had these expenses.
"Setting up in the USA" is what?

Just a little info for you:

Manny:  Then all the sneaky stuff, notaries, apostilles, overnment fees,  etc.

What price a wedding? Everyone differs.

Back home she needs a car, a drivers licence, if you are American probably a new set of teeth    and what if she has a kid? More expenses.

Gator:  For sure!   Most of the expense occurs after she arrives.

- - - - - - -

And, probably not common, but . . .

The Gal with me spent in first year:

$20,000 for new car
$15,000 for university
$5,000+ for clothes and shoes
$3,000 for trip back home with gifts, etc.
And probably some more.

[GoodOlBoy]

I came back from Russia a few days ago. I could not believe my own eyes seeing that all my single girl-friends are now dating guys 5-7 years younger than themselves.

Welcome back!
Just curious, did you introduce your friends to TG (your husband) ?

GOB

[calmissile]

Pretty much agree with your post Brian, but am interested as to why you think it's a mistake to choose English speakers? Let's face it, they are not really 'English speakers' they will be 'bi-lingual' There are a lot of reasonably good english speakers in the FSU pool of women and with 'good communication' being up there as one of the keys to a successful relationship - why make it harder than it already is?

Spoon,
I have to agree with you.  Having spent nearly a year trying to communicate with a non-English speaking women was a real challenge.  The constant misunderstandings made it very difficult.  The past several months I have limited myself to communicating with Ukrainian women on email and Skype that do speak English.  Even if not fluent, the ability to communicate with only occasional additoinal explanations, makes it so much easier (and no doubt much faster) to determine compatibility.

I have found many many Ukraine women that speak English well enough to communicate fairly well.  It is true that it limits the pool of women, but you can always choose a non-English speaking woman if you cant find what you want otherwise.

Like spoon suggests, it just gives you a great head start if you can share a language.

I have to relate an incident at the Simferopol airport when I was trying to retreive my luggage that had been sent on to Moscow.  I was with my former fiance, and I was trying to locate an employee that spoke English.  Finally a young attractive women was located that spoke English. I explained to her what the problem was.  Out of the blue, she made the statement  "How do you expect to marry a woman that does not speak the same language as you?"  As a joke, I told her we communicate in brail.  She had a scowl on her face and went on to investigate the missing luggage.  Needless to say, my fiance was pissed at her making a comment about the language barrier.  LOL

At any rate, I have found a large number of women that speak English on UkraineDate.com.  I have noticed that the pay per letter sites (Ugh) have very few.  I suspect that it is partially because most of the women know they have to depend on the translation services of the agency/portal sites.

[calmissile]

Hello Dan,

Sorry for your loss.  I wish you well for your future.

You did the right thing by stopping by here and asking your question.  Anyone on this site married to an FSU woman will tell you how happy they are.  The Eastern European woman is a culture undefined by no other, except for perhaps a Latina. 

If you want to learn more about their culture, personalities, and concepts and you are serious about finding your wife from outside of America, I recommend that you look up Eduard on this site.  I have read his many posts and I have looked at his website.  He seems like he would be able to coach you through your journey.  My second recommendation is to visit Europeandreamconnections.com   They have a weekly Thurs night webinar and you can ask all the questions you would like interactively and there are lots of educational videos.I have never been on a tour, but if it was me and I was new like you, I would take a trip with the most honest folks out there and my radar tells me that Eduard and europeandreamconnections will take you in the direction you desire.  Good luck brother.

Sun

As many posters have noted, whatever your choice of going it alone, taking a tour, or using a wingman, is going to be an expensive venture.  As some have mentioned, the cost after she arrives in your host country will not be trivial either.

As far a Eduard's services, I have never made a trip to Ukriane with him.  It was not necessary. I was already heavily involved with someone for many months with Skype and emails.  I was comfortable that I could let her navigate us around without me being worried of getting lost or in trouble.  In spite of the fact she hardly knew any English is was an enjoyable trip(s).

I have used Eduard's services on many occasions, and as he eluded to on another post he also provides many services that are very helpful and very reasonable in fees.  For instance, I paid him to evaluate the personality and character of a woman based upon months of Skype and Email correspondence,  made phone calls and spoke to some of my friends in Ukraine that only speak Russian, set up scheduling for me to visit friends in Ukraine on my next trip, etc.  I cannot comment on his costs to go to Ukraine as a wingman, but it appears that all the options are expensive.  The choice is up to the individual as to what method he is comfortable with.

For myself, I was not a tour type guy (any type of tours).  By the same token, if I had not already had a close relationship with someone, in retrospect I can see how it might be a good idea especially for someones first trip to a foreign country without knowing the native language.  To each their own.

I am in agreement with you about Mark Davis from EuropeanDreamConnections.  His free E-Book and information on his web site are valuable tools for the  newbies.  Also, the free E-Book on RWD is an excellent resource.  I think we can thank Sandro for putting it together.

[Turboguy]

Welcome back!
Just curious, did you introduce your friends to TG (your husband) ?

GOB

My wife can add to my answer later if she wants but I didn't go along on the trip GOB back to Russia.   I have met much of her family and many of her friends however.

[Olly]

So, I am not sure how realistic it is now for 56 y.o men to find a good looking 35 y.o woman who, in addition, would be craving for a simple life.

Absolutely agree. 20 years is too big different. Dan, you have to look at the future!

[vwrw]

Welcome back!
Just curious, did you introduce your friends to TG (your husband) ?

GOB

Yes, I have introduced him to some closest friends of mine. I am proud of my husband, and I would introduce him to each of my friends if a chance presents itself.


The advantage of being a special person is that you scare away the closed minded and judgmental  people that are pron to express their disapproval of your choices. As result, you are left with people who choose to celebrate your choices. I have full support of my friends regarding my spouse. Even those who were wary  of my choice in the beginning now admit I am a lucky girl  as they observe the positive transformation that I have undergone.

[Eduard]

Yes, I have introduced him to some closest friends of mine. I am proud of my husband, and I would introduce him to each of my friends if a chance presents itself.


The advantage of being a special person is that you scare away the closed minded and judgmental  people that are pron to express their disapproval of your choices. As result, you are left with people who choose to celebrate your choices. I have full support of my friends regarding my spouse. Even those who were wary  of my choice in the beginning now admit I am a lucky girl  as they observe the positive transformation that I have undergone.

excellent response!

[vwrw]

Absolutely agree. 20 years is too big different. Dan, you have to look at the future!

Perhaps you are older than 35 if you think so. 

[IAmZon]

As many posters have noted, whatever your choice of going it alone, taking a tour, or using a wingman, is going to be an expensive venture. As some have mentioned, the cost after she arrives in your host country will not be trivial either.

It is more than that!  ESPECIALLY in Ukraine. 

There can be NO realistic hope of a guy taking one trip and meeting a special lady, and lightning striking.  VERY VERY VERY UNLIKELY.   There is "something very suspicious" in the environment.   Men are suspicious of Women.  Women are suspicious of men.  The eyeballs follow you, and you realize at the end of the day you are first, and foremost a target ... the locals already know 99.9% just a flash in the pan. 

Tours make the suspicion stronger.   

This is a multi-trip deal if you are serious.  I think it is an excellent idea to learn a little Russian and try other, less traveled countries too!  Ukraine is a tough nut to crack for several reasons.   I think having at least one guy on your side that you can confide in is important. You better have a wad of cash too.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yes, I have introduced him to some closest friends of mine. I am proud of my husband, and I would introduce him to each of my friends if a chance presents itself.


The advantage of being a special person is that you scare away the closed minded and judgmental  people that are pron to express their disapproval of your choices. As result, you are left with people who choose to celebrate your choices. I have full support of my friends regarding my spouse. Even those who were wary  of my choice in the beginning now admit I am a lucky girl  as they observe the positive transformation that I have undergone.

Don't get me wrong VWRW.

I completely agree with your advice to the OP (in his 50's) to find somebody older than 30 something.

What I don't understand is the fact that you are married to a man in his 70's while giving out this advice to others.

Can you please explain?
 
GOB

[Jumper]

It is more than that!  ESPECIALLY in Ukraine. 

There can be NO realistic hope of a guy taking one trip and meeting a special lady, and lightning striking.  VERY VERY VERY UNLIKELY.   There is "something very suspicious" in the environment.   Men are suspicious of Women.  Women are suspicious of men.  The eyeballs follow you, and you realize at the end of the day you are first, and foremost a target ... the locals already know 99.9% just a flash in the pan. 

Tours make the suspicion stronger.   

This is a multi-trip deal if you are serious.  I think it is an excellent idea to learn a little Russian and try other, less traveled countries too!  Ukraine is a tough nut to crack for several reasons.   I think having at least one guy on your side that you can confide in is important. You better have a wad of cash too.

I generally agree riv,

I would advise men to plan many trips to meet.
Both for the reasons that it may take many trips to meet someone special,
and  once meeting that person,trips to  get to know them(and them to know you)


That said, I  know more than a few couples that were one trip deals,(first trip for the man) and are happily married.
I know a man who paid only for his one flight over,nothing during the trip, and for her flight here and visa fees.There is no extra car, or anything like that.They are quite happy and have been for years.

I did not find that level of suspicion in Ukraine?
Perhaps because more time was spent getting to know the woman ,her friends and family prior to the trip.
Is that kind of *visit one*  investment going to work out most of the time? no.
and i was well aware of that.
It doesn't get away from the need for multiple trips to either meet someone special,or follow up visits that someone special,but it does perhaps get away from that pre-disposed suspicion you are speaking of.

Not to get into a WOVO/ WMVM debate, but there is a distinct difference in the general attitude you will receive.
 I'm not suggesting ones even better than another, or that the reasons for the different attitudes are even reasonable.
It's human beings and relationships!! lol 
To think *reason* is something that  actually factors into  how people feel,  is silly IMO.

What i am suggesting is you have done things only one way really...?
where all parties you met are naturally suspicious as they know you are meeting many women.and what all the debate here over the years about it fails to really delve into, is that
It doesn't matter if it makes sense that you would naturally do so in that country , another country ,or your own country,because many women's reactions are generally just going to be emotional.Either  Non acceptance , or acceptance with qualifiers.. the predisposed suspicions.It is  a rare bird that would have zero issues with that and not carry some slight suspicion or baggage into the first meetings.Yes they do exist, but are rare.
If you tried both methods you'd noticve a very big difference in this aspect.

Again I'm not saying that meeting many isn't the best way, you have to meet a lot of people to find the right person for you,but doing so in that typical way in the FSU ,does carry a certain trust hurdle for a man to cross.
If you were simply going to yalta for fun, like any other tourist destination, and met a woman also there for a vacation. sure she still might carry some suspicions, but its not the level you experienced.
If you fostered a skype ,phone, and on line relationship for many months prior to travel to meet a woman,her friends ,and possibly family, again it isn't anything like what you experienced.I've done both,  both can be successful,but they each have a very different initial vibe from the parties involved.

[vwrw]

Don't get me wrong VWRW.

I completely agree with your advice to the OP (in his 50's) to find somebody older than 30 something.

What I don't understand is the fact that you are married to a man in his 70's while giving out this advice to others.

Can you please explain?
 
GOB

Sure, I can explain...the reason for your not-understanding is self-confusion. I did not give any advise to the OP. If he wants to look for a 30+ woman, I am fine with that.  All I did in my post was showing my doubt in the light of  info that I got during my last trip...the doubt whether it is realistic to find what he is looking for among the age range he is targeting.


Young Russian girls 18-27 and old Russian gals of 45 and older seem more accepting of big age gaps. The 30-43 y.o seem to prefer younger or their age guys.


Please do not mislead other readers by providing incomplete info. I am married NOT to a 70y.o guy but to a gorgeous 70 y.o guy. The word gorgeous makes all the difference.   

[GoodOlBoy]

Young Russian girls 18-27 and old Russian gals of 45 and older seem more accepting of big age gaps. The 30-43 y.o seem to prefer younger or their age guys.

I guess it is a good thing for TurboGuy (your 70 year old gorgeous husband) that you were not 28 (or older) when he came to meet you. 

GOB

[Eduard]

It is more than that!  ESPECIALLY in Ukraine. 

There can be NO realistic hope of a guy taking one trip and meeting a special lady, and lightning striking.  VERY VERY VERY UNLIKELY.   There is "something very suspicious" in the environment.   Men are suspicious of Women.  Women are suspicious of men.  The eyeballs follow you, and you realize at the end of the day you are first, and foremost a target ... the locals already know 99.9% just a flash in the pan. 

Tours make the suspicion stronger.   

This is a multi-trip deal if you are serious.  I think it is an excellent idea to learn a little Russian and try other, less traveled countries too!  Ukraine is a tough nut to crack for several reasons.   I think having at least one guy on your side that you can confide in is important. You better have a wad of cash too.

Tim, if you would get away from the MOB industry and contact women who are not part of the agency circuit you would have a totally different experience and would have a very different opinion. IMO the vast majority of normal single FSU women don't put their personals ads on MOB sites. Although I agree that Ukraine is more difficult than Russia or Belarus especially if you are trying to meet very attractive women. You can meet a lot more beautiful women in Russia and many of them won't have the same somewhat jaded attitude.

[vwrw]

I guess it is a good thing for TurboGuy (your 70 year old gorgeous husband) that you were not 28 (or older) when he came to meet you. 

GOB

Yes, lucky him!!


 My view on big age gap remains unchanged during last 6  years...if an older man has appropriate and sufficient resources (acumen, free time and disposable income), he may be successful in his pursuit of younger women and end up with a wife of his dreams. If, however, his resources are not abundant, then his chance is restricted proportionally.

[GoodOlBoy]

...if an older man has appropriate and sufficient resources (acumen, free time and disposable income), he may be successful in his pursuit of younger women and end up with a wife of his dreams. If, however, his resources are not abundant, then his chance is restricted proportionally.

Interesting.

Thank you for the explanation VWRW.
 
GOB

[Eduard]

Young Russian girls 18-27 and old Russian gals of 45 and older seem more accepting of big age gaps. The 30-43 y.o seem to prefer younger or their age guys.

I'm sorry VWRW, but not in my experience. I find that most younger girls 18-27 are actually much less accepting of a wide gap, especially if they under age 24. 5 to 10 years max. It is my experience that if a guy is in decent shape, in his late 50s or 60 yo, he will have lots of choices of interested women in their late 30s and early 40s. And if a guy is also well off he'll have more choices than he can handle in my experience. Women in their late 30s and up realise that they have very few options among local men (if any) and they are a lot more open to a wide age gap as long as the guy is in good shape and can provide a relatively secure lifestyle. What I mean by that is that no one wants to uproot and leave her country and culture, her support system, friends, family, career, kids (most likely in this age category) behind, for a foreign land to struggle there.

[I/O]

if an older man has appropriate and sufficient resources (acumen, free time and disposable income), he may be successful in his pursuit of younger women and end up with a wife of his dreams. If, however, his resources are not abundant, then his chance is restricted proportionally.

So basically age gap is a cash-for-kisses market? Remember the fund raising in Cool Runnings? 
 
My ol' lady's a bad dealer then, I got the kisses but she missed out on the cash.

[vwrw]

I'm sorry VWRW, but not in my experience. I find most that younger girls 18-27 are actually much less accepting of a wide gap, especially if they under age 24.

Well Ed, then you are probably correct. Everything changes in Russia so fast, and perhaps the new 18-24 y.o Russian girls are much diffident than they were when I was a member of their  peer group.

[vwrw]

So basically  a cash-for-kisses market? Remember the fund raising in Cool Runnings? 
 

No, basically age gap is *acumen-physical fitness- ample time -and -cash for -a chance to -find -a dream keeper* market.

I meant cash in the sense that the man will be able to make multiple trips, not in the sense that the woman of his dream will marry him for his money

[Eduard]

Well Ed, then you are probably correct. Everything changes in Russia so fast, and perhaps the new 18-24 y.o Russian girls are much diffident than they were when I was a member of their  peer group.

yes, things do change...

[JohnDearGreen]

I came back from Russia a few days ago. I could not believe my own eyes seeing that all my single girl-friends are now dating guys 5-7 years younger than themselves. In my circle of friends, two marriages  have occurred during last year; both marriages involve younger guys (4-5 years younger). Nobody in my circle dates or marries guys their own age or older. Seven years ago situation was to the contrary. Dating younger guys seems to be a new trend among good looking women in their 30+.    So, I am not sure how realistic it is now for 56 y.o men to find a good looking 35 y.o woman who, in addition, would be craving for a simple life.

Yes, they might have a younger,wealthy boyfriend.  And an older ex or separated husband.  And one or two boyfriends from USA or Europe.  Why not?  My ex-ladyfriend from Moscow did, and that was ten years ago.   

We planned a trip to Sochi.  I got a great web deal on a room at the Radisson and called to tell her .  She says "Can you call them back and change the reservation?  There are a couple of rooms on each floor that have a nice balcony with a view.  Try to get one."  Sure, no problem, do you want me to reserve the room as Ms Smith or Ms Jones?  Her ex and her boyfriend had apparently taken her there often.

But if I knew then what I know now, would I do it all over again?   Probably would, but I decided to move on after Sochi.   Her 22 year old daughter, who was one of the most attractive ladies I'd seen in the FSU, called me a couple of weeks later and asked why I quit calling.  So, was it all a boondoggle?  No, she was a keeper, and apparently her other two guys were not, as she chose me over them.

[Eduard]

Yes, they might have a younger,wealthy boyfriend.

According to what several RW told me in the last couple of years, the trend in Russia is actually - younger guys look for a woman with a good job, an apartment and a car. She supports him while he doesn't work, enjoys life and plays on the side. A good number of women settle for this kind of arrangement because their options of available men are somewhat limited.