First timer headed to Ukraine

[jone]

But before you go again, try to learn the source of your skin rash.

.......   you had a severe dermatological  reaction for an unknown reason.

Steve,

I wouldn't worry too much about the skin reaction.  You have never slept in sheets in a foreign country before.  Your skin is probably not used to the detergent that is used on the sheets.  No big deal.  Take your own sheets next time.  We do every time we cross the border from Wisconsin into Minnesota.

Jon

[lonedrake]

We do every time we cross the border from Wisconsin into Minnesota.

LMAO

Now thats funny!

[Belvis]

Right now Eva and an english speaking lady are going to get together and talk. If it turns out she is in fact insincere about her feelings towards me....then I have no choice but to accept reality.

How would you reveal her sincerity? After a single talk using a terp?  Seems you're in rush to settle the issue.  Well, it's a typical trait for AM according to observations from AW (Michele A. Berdy):

If there is one issue that has Russian and American men at opposite poles, it's the issue of Clarity. American men like clarity. They seem to have a very clear picture of what they want, and they are perfectly happy to Talk About Our Relationship. Or, even if they don't want to commit, they are very clear about their lack of commitment. This can be very good indeed: it's good to know where you stand, it's good to hear his plans and intentions. Only sometimes you feel that he's got the whole thing planned out just a tad too rigidly. He knows the kind of woman he's looking for (age, size, type of figure and hair, profession, social and economic background, education, political preferences); he knows when he'd like to fall in love and get married, when to have children and how many to have. If you don't fit into the plan, you get crossed off the list. It's Love by Filofax--there's no room for any fun anymore; the playfulness is gone. Everyone seems to have forgotten that sometimes the deepest love can appear with the most unlikely person.

[Photo Guy]

I agree- it's better to be playful, than overly analytical or rigid about your expectations...

[cc3]

How would you reveal her sincerity? After a single talk using a terp?  Seems you're in rush to settle the issue.  Well, it's a typical trait for AM according to observations

LD and I have been communicating by PM. Just to enlighten the forum, Eva would not be meeting a "terp". She would be meeting my fiancee in Luhansk...an extremely intelligent, caring and discerning lady. My fiancee is totally preoccupied with an intense university lecture/exam schedule until the end of next week, so any meeting would be the weekend after this coming one, when I will also be in Luhansk. I offered the meeting considering that I have been successful, after a long search, in finding what it seems that LD is in quest of.

[Shadow]

Steve, if you need some medical pointers on how to avoid and keep the skin in good condition in Ukraine you can PM me.

As for Eva, I stand by my earlier comment, let her go. You responded and by that seem to be lifting her hope again. The thing is that it is you who is unsure, and that can mean two things. First, you have to decide if you are ready to go for 'second best'. Second, if you decide you will then assure she is not in it to get some financial payback for her trouble.

While I agree with RussianBear, Eva is not the youngest and in her situation finding a half decent guy is going to be hard. As it seems you are more than half decent, she has probably been advised to keep hold of you as strong as she can, it may take some time before the next lottery ticket comes along. This is why she is trying to convince you to continue.

From your trip report however there seem several things you need to clear out during the talk.
1. Her marriage situation. To get married in the US she will have to be divorced. Ensure she is not planning to do that on your wallet.
2. Her daughter. As you have not met, does she live with her mother and if so what is going to happen should you continue.
3. Her private life. So far you have not been let in her private life so it seems. If I recall you did not visit her apartment or met her family. Before taking her anywhere, that has to happen.

[lonedrake]

Shadow,  Some excellent advice. Yes...I am unsure. In a sense it seems to easy. What are the odds the first russian girls I spent quality time with would be the one? I know how we got along and it was wonderful. It was like we had know each other for years. She even got my sense of humor...which can be rare.All in all our personalities meshed extremely well.
 
 I am a little rough around the edges,but I also have the ability to connect with people pretty well...I don't know what it is...but basically people that know me seem to like me. We spent hours just laying in bed talking and enjoying each others company.

 I actually believe that Eva is crazy about me and would follow me anywhere. I don't believe her feelings for me are insincere at all.But, before I go jumping full steam ahead I think it would be wise to slow down and think about it and get another opinion. It is after all the first time I have been in this type of relationship.

Thats what I am doing. Maybe it's just post trip blues? Maybe I am just desperate for love? Maybe I am scared to love?


To many questions...not enough answers

 I think time will help clarify things.

 

 

[Gator]

LD and I have been communicating by PM. Just to enlighten the forum, Eva would not be meeting a "terp". She would be meeting my fiancee in Luhansk...an extremely intelligent, caring and discerning lady. My fiancee is totally preoccupied with an intense university lecture/exam schedule until the end of next week, so any meeting would be the weekend after this coming one, when I will also be in Luhansk. I offered the meeting considering that I have been successful, after a long search, in finding what it seems that LD is in quest of.

   Excellent, with one potential constraint - your fiancee does not know Lonedrake.

[Gator]

 We spent hours just laying in bed talking and enjoying each others company.

You never mentioned this before.  Such is a very positive.   
 
You describe yourself as a redeneck.  That is fine, but most FSUW are not village girls.  If you continue to pursue Eva, be sure to cover this issue in depth.

[newjason]

Shadow,  Some excellent advice. Yes...I am unsure. In a sense it seems to easy. What are the odds the first russian girls I spent quality time with would be the one? I know how we got along and it was wonderful. It was like we had know each other for years. She even got my sense of humor...which can be rare.All in all our personalities meshed extremely well.
 
 I am a little rough around the edges,but I also have the ability to connect with people pretty well...I don't know what it is...but basically people that know me seem to like me. We spent hours just laying in bed talking and enjoying each others company.

 I actually believe that Eva is crazy about me and would follow me anywhere. I don't believe her feelings for me are insincere at all.But, before I go jumping full steam ahead I think it would be wise to slow down and think about it and get another opinion. It is after all the first time I have been in this type of relationship.

Thats what I am doing. Maybe it's just post trip blues? Maybe I am just desperate for love? Maybe I am scared to love?


To many questions...not enough answers

 I think time will help clarify things.

--- It was like we had know each other for years.

--I think it would be wise to slow down and think about it and get another opinion.


If the first statement were true. There would be no reason for the second statement.

The opinion of someone you don't know, who doesn't  know Eva is going to be your litmus test?
Think about that for a moment.

LD you seem like a nice guy .

Take some time and get to know who you are and care about yourself.
Once you have  some understanding about your life and you happiness and what you really want out of life, then you should be ready to share yourself with someone.

Look, Eva may be crazy about you, but that is going to wear off at some point.
Hopefully what comes after that is better and more rewarding.
This is not a race, unless you are just trying to fill a void because you are lonely.
If you are serious about her, then you would know it 100%
You would have no questions about her feelings , motivations, or intentions.

You can't possibly know someone who you just met. Chill out and just focus on you for now.
If She is the one, she will be around.

Any woman that proclaimed the things she did in that letter you shared, to me , would be fun for a while, but I would not consider for a long term successful marriage after knowing her for such a short time.

Do those statements not seem strangely similar in tone to your Ex's ?

[LAman]

Yesterday I had some "mental torment"  I was not sure what to do. So I thought about it...then thought about it some more and so on.

 It becomes clear to me how I feel and what I must do

So Eva makes it over around 7. I am a little nervous and apprehensive as I have no idea how this will pan out.But my mind is made up.

 I set her down on the couch and tell her I have something important to tell her.  Then I say " Remember when we first met and I told you I am looking for the love of my life and also want to marry her" she nods so I continue on "today I decided that I do not want to marry you, all we can be is friends. Once I leave I do not come back to Ukraine to visit you"

 She says "Stephen, you're crazy. You think I want to marry you? I don't think about the future,just today and tomorrow"

 So I feel a little foolish. I also feel better for letting her know where I stand.

Let me explain myself about the the marriage question. When I meet or am dating a woman I just ask/think to myself...Do I see a future with her? do I think I could marry? will this relationship work out?  One can never truly know these answers,but if at the present time they are all yes....then...no problem.

 However if the answers come back as no, some thought must take place.

 There is no appropriate way to express myself why my answers come back as no. All I will say is they are personal and physical.....and yes.....I am shallow. I cannot get past it.

 I believed after I told her this Eva would be a little upset and maybe even head home. I had no idea. But no...she made it clear she enjoys spending time with me. She wants to take a walk to a market that sounds like it is a fair distance away...but I want to just go to the one across the street. So I tell her " You go to that market and I go to this market and we meet back here"

 At the market access the street I pick up some pepsi and 7 up( Pepsi and Coke are readily available,but I have not found any Mountain Dew...I take 200 mgs of caffeine each morning) Eva wants some champagne so we pick up a bottle of that and return to apartment.

It is now the second day that I have not been able to eat anything. I am sleepy and tell Eva I go to sleep at 11. She say no problem and we just talk about anything and everything. She is very funny. 11 rolls around and then 11:30 and then 12.

Eva is making good progress on the champagne bottle and I can tell she is getting drunk. She grabs my face and says" Stephen why you not want to marry me?"  So my honesty flies out the window and I just tell her she is to old for me. She knows I am lying immediately." Liar, why you lie to me about this?"There is no way in hell I am going to tell her the truth. I think she knows the reason, but I believe it is better if she has doubts.  So I just shrug my shoulders.

 After that everything is fine. She ends up calling a taxi at 2. She wants to take me for a taxi ride in the country and go bowling again. That sounds great to me....I was just expecting to hang around here alone tomorrow and catch a taxi to Donetsk early monday. Sure it is wasted time spending it with her when I know the relationship is going to end, but I don't feel like trying to contact any other women just to maybe meet them a day before I leave. She knows where I stand so she can choose as she wishes with the info I have given her.

LD.....just remember your words while you were in the moment....forget about not feeling well..I think your mind was working good....first impressions are usually dead on. Eva was not what you are looking for, what was it you said, ....personal and physical and yes I am shallow..."
Now you are away...and are letting ones words sink in...easy if you are not physically there. I have no idea how sincere if Eva's words are, since she never said them while you were together, only now that you are gone.
Just some thoughts from the outside looking in. Good Luck!!

[martinssgg]

I am a new user, so I hope I am not breaking any rules by showing up unannounced, first let me say that I find this forum very interesting since I was also looking for information on the web about advices for people wanting to go to Ukraine. I certainly will add this page to my favorites list!!! 

I have read your story LD and you seem like a nice guy, I am from Mexico and here we have the same problem, most women, not all, are soulless and clueless, the ones that are pretty just want to start a career in acting or want to marry a rich, foreign man who will support them, but what do they have to offer?? they say they want a nice, tender, educated, kind and intelligent man for a husband, but what do they offer in return??? I am also thinking of traveling to Ukraine since a friend of mine has been there 3 times, he had business with aerosvit, which I think was the original reason for him going there, but every time he came back from Ukraine, he told me that the most beautiful women he has ever seen were Ukrainian, that they don't like Ukrainian men because they drink too much and they don't take things seriously, so I thought, the same happens here in Mexico but with women, so I was searching the web for some advice and found this great forum and your story!!!

I do not know if my advice will be welcomed, but I think that if you feel the way you are feeling, you should go find her! because maybe later you may be asking yourself; "what if it was real???" you are a very honest and transparent person when you ask for advice here, and if you go to Ukraine again and find out she's not, you might as well keep looking while you are there! that was your first time and maybe you didn't know many things, but a second time will be much different!! 

[lonedrake]

since she never said them while you were together,

 I am a terrible trip teller

 She said all these things and more in person. Her description of me in person is/was so flattering it makes me embarrassed to talk about it.

I am a new user, so I hope I am not breaking any rules by showing up unannounced,

 nope..none at all. Welcome to RWD. There are many great people who hang out here.

that was your first time and maybe you didn't know many things,

I would go one step further and say.....I still don't!


 

[lonedrake]

The opinion of someone you don't know, who doesn't  know Eva is going to be your litmus test?

 Yes.   He is only trying to help me and I appreciate it. 

Take some time and get to know who you are and care about yourself.
Once you have  some understanding about your life and you happiness and what you really want out of life, then you should be ready to share yourself with someone.

 Jason I know you mean well.....but what does that really mean? How much time? Is 44 years not enough? Must one have all the answers about everything before one dates? or falls in love? Do people really know everything they want out of life ....and never change it? They sit down...or whatever one does to get to know themselves....then decide exactly what they really want from life...and never veer of course?

 How does one determine when they are ready? Do you just know?  Or are you just telling me in a polite way that you believe I am clueless?

[Belvis]

Hopefully what comes after that is better and more rewarding.

Couple of guys here confessed with regret in TRs that they have let wonderful women slip through their hands.  Only because these women were first they met, and they thought about someone 'more rewarding'.

[Gator]

Couple of guys here confessed with regret in TRs that they have let wonderful women slip through their hands.  Only because these women were first they met, and they thought about someone 'more rewarding'.

Or more likely it means the subsequent dates were even less impressive than the first woman they met. 
 
When the ideal woman comes along, most men will feel it and know it.   One part of the definition of an ideal woman is that you stop thinking about other women.  Caveat - this does not apply to players.

[Daveman]

...



 Jason I know you mean well.....but what does that really mean? How much time? Is 44 years not enough? Must one have all the answers about everything before one dates? or falls in love? Do people really know everything they want out of life ....and never change it? They sit down...or whatever one does to get to know themselves....then decide exactly what they really want from life...and never veer of course?

 How does one determine when they are ready? Do you just know?  Or are you just telling me in a polite way that you believe I am clueless?

Probably he's politely suggesting to locate the cause of the malfunctioning pecker syndrome...  because.. it has been noted that men think with their peckers... if yours is malfunctioning, you obviously can't think straight!


 

[Faux Pas]

Or more likely it means the subsequent dates were even less impressive than the first woman they met. 
 
When the ideal woman comes along, most men will feel it and know it.   One part of the definition of an ideal woman is that you stop thinking about other women.  Caveat - this does not apply to players.

I don't agree with this statement Gator. Seems to me you're giving our gender too much undue credit. IMHO, many men just can't get rid of the visual and thinking with the little head. A good many of the men that go to the FSU do so with the kid in the candy store idea. Explanations quite often are, the first one, she was smart, great personality a "7" and a great body, we definitely had sparks and then they go on to tell about #2, #3 and so on. It's is only my guess but, I surmise that many seek the prettier woman with the finer set of tits rather than explore, learn and see the woman in front of them. I'm not saying it's right, wrong or indifferent just moreso how men in general are wired

[Gator]

I don't agree with this statement Gator. Seems to me you're giving our gender too much undue credit.

My opinions about male behavior are heavily weighted by my personal experiences, supplemented by what friends have told me about their experiences.    Having the least weight are accounts from people I don't know, who easily could be shoveling bull sheeeet.. 
 

IMHO, many men just can't get rid of the visual and thinking with the little head.

I am guilty, but such thinking is about the woman I am with (or want to be with).   
 
The kid in a candy store syndrome sounds like a player or a wannabe player on a WMVM trip.   I assert it is because he has not yet met a glorious ideal woman.
 
My story:  I first met my Cossack wife at the beginning of a long WMVM trip.  We spent 6 great days together New Year's 2006 in Moscow.  Then she flew home to Siberia for work and I flew to St. Piter and Ukraine.  In Ukraine and St. Piter I literally squandered my time meeting 5-6 women with whom I had been communicating.  I was polite but not interested, and I did not make a "move."  My main thought was about when I would see the Cossack woman again.   
 
If the Cossack woman had been unimpressive, I would have been more aggressive with the subsequent dates.  And most people know that the Cossack woman spoke only 50 words of English, and I am too old to be thunderstruck, so she had to be   glorious to occupy my thoughts.
 
 

[jone]

If the Cossack woman had been unimpressive, I would have been more aggressive with the subsequent dates.  And most people know that the Cossack woman spoke only 50 words of English, and I am too old to be thunderstruck, so she had to be  glorious to occupy my thoughts.

Gator,

You now have us all wondering what those 50 words were!  And I dare not speculate.

[Anechka]

 I actually believe that Eva is crazy about me and would follow me anywhere. I don't believe her feelings for me are insincere at all.But, before I go jumping full steam ahead I think it would be wise to slow down and think about it and get another opinion. It is after all the first time I have been in this type of relationship.

Thats what I am doing. Maybe it's just post trip blues? Maybe I am just desperate for love? Maybe I am scared to love?


To many questions...not enough answers

 I think time will help clarify things.

You either want to spend your life with her or you don't. IMHO, you don't have feelings for her. First, I think love and relations are quite intimate and personal things to discuss them on the forum and ask some advice from some bunch of strangers if you should proceed. Second, you don't trust her, you want someone to check if she has some sincere feelings about you, BS! Just a lack of trust from the beginning. Third, you shouldn't ask us what you want to do with YOUR life. Forth, it still looks to me like shopping, sorry for being harsh...

Plus some more advice from someone a bit younger: I always prefer to be sorry for what I had done rather than for what I wanted to do but never dared to 

[Patagonie]

Or more likely it means the subsequent dates were even less impressive than the first woman they met. 
 
When the ideal woman comes along, most men will feel it and know it.   One part of the definition of an ideal woman is that you stop thinking about other women.  Caveat - this does not apply to players.

It depends, if you want to settle or not.

[Patagonie]

I don't agree with this statement Gator. Seems to me you're giving our gender too much undue credit. IMHO, many men just can't get rid of the visual and thinking with the little head. A good many of the men that go to the FSU do so with the kid in the candy store idea. Explanations quite often are, the first one, she was smart, great personality a "7" and a great body, we definitely had sparks and then they go on to tell about #2, #3 and so on. It's is only my guess but, I surmise that many seek the prettier woman with the finer set of tits rather than explore, learn and see the woman in front of them. I'm not saying it's right, wrong or indifferent just moreso how men in general are wired

+1

[lonedrake]

Second, you don't trust her, you want someone to check if she has some sincere feelings about you,

 IMO....Trust comes last in a relationship....built over time.

 BTW....I apologize for my rant. You gave good advice and is not out of line and is from your heart.


 Eva and I are communicating daily. We can only send letters as we cannot understand much when we talk by phone. I just wanted to hear her voice. If I go back to see her...which is about a 95% probability....it will be the first week of March.

[Daveman]

Did you ever get the complete story, at least resolved to your satisfaction for possibly continuing, of her marriage?