She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...

[Patagonie]

What is "maximizing dating"?

By maximizing i was meaning that people are more prone to contact or to write to people they focus on.
Myself, after few months i focused only on Ukrainian girls, and only women from the city i was aiming for prior my travel

[Doll]

You guys see what you want to see.
It was Paulie who "opened the wallet"- paid for what he paid and it was him who offered her $5,000.
It was he who told her she "would HAVE" to sell her kondo and bring the money to the USA.
Her wanting and appartment on her name here is the reaction.
 Paulie in a white coat and the woman now in a gold digger?
Nothing new- you see what you want to see.
( I am not mentioning "detectives" and putting everything on a credit card).
Nothing new.

[Faux Pas]

You guys see what you want to see.
It was Paulie who "opened the wallet"- paid for what he paid and it was him who offered her $5,000.
It was he who told her she "would HAVE" to sell her kondo and bring the money to the USA.
Her wanting and appartment on her name here is the reaction.
 Paulie in a white coat and the woman now in a gold digger?
Nothing new- you see what you want to see.
( I am not mentioning "detectives" and putting everything on a credit card).
Nothing new.

B.S. Doll. You're reading a different thread from most the rest of us

[Patagonie]

You guys see what you want to see.
It was Paulie who "opened the wallet"- paid for what he paid and it was him who offered her $5,000.
It was he who told her she "would HAVE" to sell her kondo and bring the money to the USA.
Her wanting and appartment on her name here is the reaction.
 Paulie in a white coat and the woman now in a gold digger?
Nothing new- you see what you want to see.
( I am not mentioning "detectives" and putting everything on a credit card).
Nothing new.

Not exactly
my post 17
"This is generosity bad rewarded --> now she is asking and appartment on her name.
With such income (her), knowing that she paid 0 $ being with you she SHOULD have helped you financially.
Fellow tell me if she has open her wallet ONE time ?
You have been TOO generous and you have also showed her how deep is your wallet that now she is scheduling an ROI (return on investissement).
You are of  course GUILTY  for a large part, of this situation. If you show to a lady that money is not a concern for you guess what...."
and
"You need to understand that the money you have displayed is not something which has worked positively for your relationship, it has just helped you to dig your own grave, remember this for the next time.
 Now the point is that you don't know if she is interested in you for you or for your money, you get it ?"

[Gator]

Not siding with the woman, just a question:

How many of you, guys, being  a 40 yo divorce and having a kid who you still support financially would sell your business and move to, for example, Australia to the Australian woman who you met less than 1 year ago because she promised she would support you financially?

Not many.  You have a pragmatic view, and I found many RW to be the same.   Good to see you posting again Vasilisa.

[Gator]

Given what we know and especially what we don't know, I suggest that Paulie and his girlfriend keep dating to determine how far their relationship will progress.   Maybe they both will become fully committed to their relationship.  If so, demands and concerns will subside.

[BillyB]

more than a few posters have referred to the paulie's rw needing to sell her apartment in turkey.  in his first post, i'm pretty sure he referred to it as a 'decent rental apartment'.

 
You're right and we should all go back and read the first post. After many pages funny how a story gets twisted.
 
 
She rents a decent apartment. She wants Paulie to buy her an apartment in her name only. Most people get married for varioius benefits and better life. Nothing wrong with that but moving up to be an owner from a renter is a big jump and Paulie should be more concerned with what kind of person is making the demands more than the demands themselves.
 
 
Paulie already told her "NO" on the apartment. If he wants to volunteer her reaction to his rejection, that would help us understand better. Did she accept it well? Did she throw a tantrum or get colder to Paulie?
 
 
We have incorrectly assumed she's giving up everything for this marriage. She has a business in Turkey and in Paulie's first post he said she may open a business in California.

[Faux Pas]

 
You're right and we should all go back and read the first post. After many pages funny how a story gets twisted.
 
 
She rents a decent apartment. She wants Paulie to buy her an apartment in her name only. Most people get married for varioius benefits and better life. Nothing wrong with that but moving up to be an owner from a renter is a big jump and Paulie should be more concerned with what kind of person is making the demands more than the demands themselves.
 
 
Paulie already told her "NO" on the apartment. If he wants to volunteer her reaction to his rejection, that would help us understand better. Did she accept it well? Did she throw a tantrum or get colder to Paulie?
 
 
We have incorrectly assumed she's giving up everything for this marriage. She has a business in Turkey and in Paulie's first post he said she may open a business in California.

I think it was Fashionista that pointed out earlier, she only hates him right now to the tune of $100K. Within a couple of years she could easily hate Paulie for $500K+

[Paulie]

You guys see what you want to see.
It was Paulie who "opened the wallet"- paid for what he paid and it was him who offered her $5,000.
It was he who told her she "would HAVE" to sell her kondo and bring the money to the USA.
Her wanting and apartment on her name here is the reaction.
 Paulie in a white coat and the woman now in a gold digger?
Nothing new- you see what you want to see.
( I am not mentioning "detectives" and putting everything on a credit card).
Nothing new.

Ms. Doll...you ought to REREAD my initial post.  My girlfriend WANTS to sell her Ukraine condo.  She WANTS to invest in US real estate. 

Whether she is gold digger or not has not been determined by me just yet.  I DID see a few issues early on:
1) When I flew her to New York, she insisted on my bringing her daughter to New York from Miami.  I did so because I wanted her to make her happy.
2) When I was in New York, she asked me to buy her an unlocked iPhone at a cost of $800.  I said no because I felt it was out of line for her to ask, especially that she has her own money. 
3) In December I flew her to meet in Los Angeles.  Before I did, she asked me to bring her a small xmas tree for Russian Xmas.   I found one, ONLY ONE because the xmas holiday was practically over.  She gave me a difficult time with it because she wanted something better.
4) On a trip to a mall, she walked into a store, picked up a piece of costume jewelry and said "buy me this" without even asking the word please OR 'would you buy this for me?' 
5) On another occasion in Los Angeles, she wanted to go to breakfast and after three attempts to find a place suitable to her, I gave up.   
6) I ALSO flew her daughter to Los Angeles - this trip I was unhappy about because each time we were together, Miami, New York AND THEN Los Angeles, her daughter was present.  What we needed was ALONE time.  But I felt for her because she does not see her daughter often. 

So Doll, understand that I am "bending over backwards" to make this girl happy.  I will not give and give until there is nothing left of me.  More to follow.

Best,

Paul

[Gylden]

With this new info Paul, my advice would be to drop her without hesitation and re-think your approach with foreign women.

[ML]

Paul, you are a 'glutton for punishment.'

As a man, it is embarrassing to me to read your last post.

[Boethius]

Paul, I once posted about a Moscow man's reaction when his date didn't like the restaurant he chose -


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=10490.msg208533#msg208533




The point is, you are tolerating bad behavior.  You should never tolerate bad behavior.  It won't improve, and she won't change.

[calmissile]

With this new info Paul, my advice would be to drop her without hesitation and re-think your approach with foreign women.

+1

[Daveman]

I think I am being more than reasonable, even generous, maybe even crazy.  I am wondering if this is a 'conniver.' She HAS told me that Russian women are taken care of like this AND even Turkish men do it. 

My take on it:


Your "inner alarm" is telling you exactly what the situation is.


This is a train wreck in the making. 

[Belvis]

In December I flew her to meet in Los Angeles.  Before I did, she asked me to bring her a small xmas tree for Russian Xmas.   I found one, ONLY ONE because the xmas holiday was practically over.  She gave me a difficult time with it because she wanted something better.

I would  hate her for xmas tree only, even if nothing else happened. To be honest I would justfy wrongly the rest of her whims, I can't resist the woman charms. But xmas tree story is over the top.
Though I'm not convinced she's inborn bitch. May be Paul let her to be a bitch.

[Doll]

Ms. Doll...you ought to REREAD my initial post.  My girlfriend WANTS to sell her Ukraine condo.  She WANTS to invest in US real estate. 

Whether she is gold digger or not has not been determined by me just yet.  I DID see a few issues early on:
1) When I flew her to New York, she insisted on my bringing her daughter to New York from Miami.  I did so because I wanted her to make her happy.
2) When I was in New York, she asked me to buy her an unlocked iPhone at a cost of $800.  I said no because I felt it was out of line for her to ask, especially that she has her own money. 
3) In December I flew her to meet in Los Angeles.  Before I did, she asked me to bring her a small xmas tree for Russian Xmas.   I found one, ONLY ONE because the xmas holiday was practically over.  She gave me a difficult time with it because she wanted something better.
4) On a trip to a mall, she walked into a store, picked up a piece of costume jewelry and said "buy me this" without even asking the word please OR 'would you buy this for me?' 
5) On another occasion in Los Angeles, she wanted to go to breakfast and after three attempts to find a place suitable to her, I gave up.   
6) I ALSO flew her daughter to Los Angeles - this trip I was unhappy about because each time we were together, Miami, New York AND THEN Los Angeles, her daughter was present.  What we needed was ALONE time.  But I felt for her because she does not see her daughter often. 

So Doll, understand that I am "bending over backwards" to make this girl happy.  I will not give and give until there is nothing left of me.  More to follow.

Best,

Paul

You didn't post these details.
I thought you wanted her to sell her kondo.

[Patagonie]

Part of my post 36 :
"The men who have spoiled such women from their twenties by gifting and throwing the money like water, meet them again twenty years later and relationships with this type of women become a pain in the ass because life is a hell, they are used to get and not to give. And they have a lot problems to readjust. A lot will not readjust and will try to secure "their assets". 
To find thoses ones you don't need to go to Turkey or in FSU they are plenty in USA or Europe.

Generally this type of story are train wrecks, the guys who are successful here, have generally avoided like the plague this type of women IMHO.
You try to meet her expectations ? You are just going to loose your personality. It nevers bring love, in fact what women never told you : they hate men who are doing all they want, they loose respect and interest in time for such guys."

[Paulie]

She now knows I am not a 'push over' and that I am not easily led into her world of wants.  I am in Istanbul and this trip will tell me if I am going back with or without a future with her. 

[Boethius]

Part of my post 36 :
"The men who have spoiled such women from their twenties by gifting and throwing the money like water, meet them again twenty years later and relationships with this type of women become a pain in the ass because life is a hell, they are used to get and not to give. And they have a lot problems to readjust. A lot will not readjust and will try to secure "their assets". 
To find thoses ones you don't need to go to Turkey or in FSU they are plenty in USA or Europe.

Generally this type of story are train wrecks, the guys who are successful here, have generally avoided like the plague this type of women IMHO.
You try to meet her expectations ? You are just going to loose your personality. It nevers bring love, in fact what women never told you : they hate men who are doing all they want, they loose respect and interest in time for such guys."

I disagree that men have spoiled these women since their twenties.  It is just a personality type. 

[Larry1]

The point is, you are tolerating bad behavior.  You should never tolerate bad behavior.  It won't improve, and she won't change.

This is so true.  I once stayed in a relationship longer than I should have because I hoped the girl's behavior would improve, to get back to how nice it had been in the beginning.  Not only did it not improve, but it became worse over time as I accommodated her.  It was fortunate for me that she finally carried her bad behavior too far, causing me to stop putting up with it.

One thing that helped me pull the plug on the relationship was reading trip reports.  That showed me how a nice girl with genuine feelings treats her boyfriend.  Perhaps that would help to give you some perspective as well.  These will also teach the lesson that there are lots of good FSUW who would add to your life rather than cause frequent turmoil.

She now knows I am not a 'push over' and that I am not easily led into her world of wants.

It seems like you kinda have been.  You don't give in to every one of the demands on her list, but from your posts here it seems that you give in to the vast majority of them.

Drop her like a hot rock.

[Patagonie]

She now knows I am not a 'push over' and that I am not easily led into her world of wants.  I am in Istanbul and this trip will tell me if I am going back with or without a future with her.

Take your time Paulie and be relax with her, you don't need to take a decision now. Probably when you are back in USA you will have time to filter your feelings and be more unbiaised. It is painful when we have feelings and are attracted however.

[calmissile]

This is so true.  I once stayed in a relationship longer than I should have because I hoped the girl's behavior would improve, to get back to how nice it had been in the beginning.  Not only did it not improve, but it became worse over time as I accommodated her.  It was fortunate for me that she finally carried her bad behavior too far, causing me to stop putting up with it.

One thing that helped me pull the plug on the relationship was reading trip reports.  That showed me how a nice girl with genuine feelings treats her boyfriend.  Perhaps that would help to give you some perspective as well.  These will also teach the lesson that there are lots of good FSUW who would add to your life rather than cause frequent turmoil.

It seems like you kinda have been.  You don't give in to every one of the demands on her list, but from your posts here it seems that you give in to the vast majority of them.

Drop her like a hot rock.

Unfortunately, it looks like Paulie has fallen into the same trap Larry1, myself, and many others have.  It's difficult to give up on someone you have invested time (and maybe money) into. Especially after a relationship has developed.

One of the best lines I have read on the forum (too late) comes from ML:
"DO NOT EXCUSE BAD BEHAVIOR AS BEING A CULTURAL DIFFERENCE".

There are many women that fit this category in the FSU.
By the same token, as Bo points out... It is a personality trait.
There are many eligible husband seeking women in the FSU that have nice personalities and are honest.  Might as well focus on the personality that you will be comfortable with before ever considering age, looks, social status, education, etc.

[Faux Pas]

She now knows I am not a 'push over' and that I am not easily led into her world of wants.  I am in Istanbul and this trip will tell me if I am going back with or without a future with her.

 Paulie, your recent post is much more telling that your earlier ones. You have been a very easy push over. She doesn't respect you. Certainly no one here knows this woman but most here are much more in tune to this scenario than you might imagine. This lady makes 4-6K a month, if she was a sincere woman, she would have been paying much of her own way. The daughter joining in on the U.S. trips and furthermore, at your expense is very telling. Sure, maybe she would come to America and marry you with such a guarantee but, is that really something you'd still consider?

She's used you and she's still using you. This will not change and all indications are, will only worsen. I wish you the best in any event.

[Gator]

Paulie,
 
Your back must really hurt from her walking all over it.
 

Whether she is gold digger or not has not been determined by me just yet. 

She is not a gold digger.  A gold digger waits until the divorce to get the gold, yet before the divorce she treats you like a king.  In contrast, your woman  is demanding the gold now and all the time treating you like dirt.
 
Do not try to pass her behavior off as cultural differences.    Decent, sincere RW do not behave this way  towards men they are fond of.  This is the behavior of a woman who does not respect you.  She is demanding, she is difficult to satisfy,  she shows little gratitude, and she spends more time with her daughter than with you.    I can see you now following behind the woman and her daughter, paying their bills as if you were their accountant, except you are paying with your money.

RM would not accept such behavior even if he were married and just having a dalliance with her.  She knows better.  She does it with you because you allow it.   Surely she has behaved the same with Turkish men who pursue her, and you notice that such has not helped a Turkish man create a lasting relationship with her.

Perish the thought that you can break her.   She already considers you a weak man, her American patsy.   
 
I hope you do not give up on RW.  Stick around and the RWD members will help you search for a proper wife.  She may not be a national champion, yet she will have endearing personal qualities.

[Chicagoguy]

I had only one bad experience. Woman had me use daughters friend as a docent and translator for $50 at the Hermitage. My woman friend spoke good enough English and I think I knew the Hermitage better than the so called docent.
Then dinner for the two of us in expensive restaurant and a bottle of perfume followed.
I never saw her again. I had been to Russia before AND I read RWD ! Went back to Moscow early the next day.
Paulie - cut your losses.