Divorce finally final after 3 years and 3 different lawyers for her.

[TS]

Mies I read it the same way you did and Greg has not corrected me on it. 
 
 
 
 

[Muzh]

Regarding children not speaking Russian when half their family is Russian sounds cruel.  This was the cause of the divorce for the OP.  MIL in the house for 6 months and seeing father telling children not to speak Russian.  Never ends well.  Bad things snowball after this.  When you marry someone from another country you better be ready to except their culture.  Rejecting the Russian language was not smart.

I have several children and they speak Russian, English, and Spanish at advanced level for there age.  Most people in this world speak 2-3 languages well.

I just saw this.
 
I highlighted two important sentences.
 
The first one regarding the MIL. MIL was at their home as a guest, not as the final authority, which brings me to the second highlighted sentence. You can accept their culture as long as they accept yours.
 
Any MIL that comes to the Son-In-Law's home and dictate her will can and will cause a divorce, plain and simple, because his wife will not side with her husband. That is very bad and poor judgement on both ladies.
 
Keep in mind that the above is based on everything being equal. IOW, no mention of the husband being a murderous son of a bitch nor a door mat. Just your average husband.
 
And still, the wife made a vow to the husband for sickness and in health, for better or worse. MIL has no business in setting household policies.
 
Regardless of acceptance of different cultures.
 
Carry on.

[mies]

I just saw this.
 
I highlighted two important sentences.
 
The first one regarding the MIL. MIL was at their home as a guest, not as the final authority, which brings me to the second highlighted sentence. You can accept their culture as long as they accept yours.
 
Any MIL that comes to the Son-In-Law's home and dictate her will can and will cause a divorce, plain and simple, because his wife will not side with her husband. That is very bad and poor judgement on both ladies.
 
Keep in mind that the above is based on everything being equal. IOW, no mention of the husband being a murderous son of a bitch nor a door mat. Just your average husband.
 
And still, the wife made a vow to the husband for sickness and in health, for better or worse. MIL has no business in setting household policies.
 
Regardless of acceptance of different cultures.
 
Carry on.

Agree fully.
My personl opinion, and I hope I will not offend anyone with it, MIL (on a wife's or a husband's side) should not live with a married couple and if she is in their home temporarily, imho, she should be there as a respected and beloved guest, but still a guest who respects the rules of the house and out of respect to hosts keeps her opinions to herself, MIL should not be the one who runs the show. I never understood why someone would want the in-laws to live together with them (unless in-laws are incapacitated and it's too expensive to have them live separately or living together with them is otherwise unavoidable). I wouldn't want my mom (or dad, or sister, or in-law's on my husband's side) to live with me and my husband (or even just with me), and I take it as an offense and intrusion when they try too hard to advise me on my family life.
With regard to not having too many friends outside of the family - I do not think it's necessarily a bad thing. Most of men would envy Greg, knowing that his ex-wife doesn't/didn't spend countless hours (and $$$) chatting and gossiping and shopping with her female friends.

[Ooooops]

Perhaps its because I'm an American and understand his post far better than you Mies.

Oooooh!   Sweeeet!   Teach them second class immigrants how to read American English!   

[GregfromGa]

I never ever said I didn't want my kids to learn Russian. I did say I at least wanted it 50/50 with the mother.  Speaking English to our children when I was around was all I ever asked for. It was all Russian all the time with her. Like the true maniac she was , she didn't want me to speak English with my kids. That would've been kind of hard as I do not speak Russian. While picking up my kids today I see that my ex wolverine-in-law has arrived once again. She looked old and tired and just as pissed and miserable as ever. Luckily for me I never have to endure that wrath again.

[mies]

I never ever said I didn't want my kids to learn Russian. I did say I at least wanted it 50/50 with the mother.  Speaking English to our children when I was around was all I ever asked for. It was all Russian all the time with her. Like the true maniac she was , she didn't want me to speak English with my kids. That would've been kind of hard as I do not speak Russian. While picking up my kids today I see that my ex wolverine-in-law has arrived once again. She looked old and tired and just as pissed and miserable as ever. Luckily for me I never have to endure that wrath again.

Greg, thank you for clarification. So your ex forbade you to speak English to children? Or she continued speaking Russian to them when you were around and you asked her to speak English to them? What exactly was going on? Was she telling you "stop speaking English to children" or you were telling her "don't speak Russian to children when I am around, you can speak Russian to them when I am at work."
Sorry, I am still not sure I understand how this was technically happening. We do not have children yet, but I would like to get a general idea of how people approach this matter in the family, and how to avoid potential conflicts and frustrations with the spouse. Any advice on that?

[Chicagoguy]

I believe Russian language wife speaking only Russian and English speaking husband speaking only English to children is an easy and painless way for children to become bilingual. Even if both speak only one language around home children will learn English from friends, school and TV. Look at the Spanish.
But one problem some Russian friends of mine had is their son speaks fluent Russian but can't read it  . Takes it at University now [ with others in same boat ].

[Ade]

Greg, thank you for clarification. So your ex forbade you to speak English to children? Or she continued speaking Russian to them when you were around and you asked her to speak English to them? What exactly was going on? Sorry, I am still not sure I understand how this was technically happening. We do not have children yet, but I would like to get a general idea of how people approach this matter in the family, and how to avoid potential conflicts and frustrations with the spouse.

What normal people do and what experts recommend is that each parent speaks their native language to their children and use a common language when both parents are speaking together. People tend to be able to express themselves better in their native tongue, not just intellectually but emotionally and this is important with children. Children will almost always favour the language of their peer group anyway, no matter what other languages they are taught before they go to school. There are a lot of myths out there about children getting confused when being spoken to in many languages at an early age but a myth is all it is. Children have no problem. We know this from research and from several mixed culture families that are friends.

Also I do not give much credit to Greg's claims of speech therapy. Or, if his daughter really did need it, she would have needed it regardless and it would have had nothing to do with her being taught Russian exclusively or a mix of both.

Going by past posts of Greg's, his problem with his wife was that he spent too much time in work, so he was unable to interact with his kids enough for them to learn English from him. His wife of course wanted to speak to them in her native language. So his problem was that he prioritized work over his kids and he blamed his wife for that.

It's the first time I'm hearing this crap about his wife forbidding him to speak English to his kids. I'm sure if it were true, he would have posted it earlier in this pathetic saga.

And yes, he handled his MiL all wrong. 

[Misha]

I never ever said I didn't want my kids to learn Russian. I did say I at least wanted it 50/50 with the mother.  Speaking English to our children when I was around was all I ever asked for.

This is the worst way to go about it as this is what will create a confusion of languages. You want children to associate one language to one person and that way they will speak both and their brains will have sorted out the different languages without any problems in later life. Also, people get into the habit of speaking one language to one person. Asking them to switch is difficult. It was an unreasonable demand IMVHO. If you wanted to marry someone who would only speak or mostly speak English to any children you had, you should have married an American speaking your language...

[tfcrew]

  If you wanted to marry someone who would only speak or mostly speak English to any children you had, you should have married an American speaking your language...

Disagree.
Milage varies with every individual.

[Doll]

This is the worst way to go about it as this is what will create a confusion of languages. You want children to associate one language to one person and that way they will speak both and their brains will have sorted out the different languages without any problems in later life. Also, people get into the habit of speaking one language to one person. Asking them to switch is difficult. It was an unreasonable demand IMVHO. If you wanted to marry someone who would only speak or mostly speak English to any children you had, you should have married an American speaking your language...

+100

[Daveman]

What normal people do and what experts recommend is that each parent speaks their native language to their children and use a common language when both parents are speaking together.
...

This makes the most sense to me.  I can't imagine how a "family" discussion being carried out in two languages would be very productive.

[TS]

I have two children.  My wife speaks to them mainly in Russian but she can do English.  I speak to them in English and sometimes Spanish.  Sometimes they even translate what my wife is saying to me.  I actually speak decent Russian for an American but I think it is good for my kids to translate Russian to English.  There both under 5 years as well.
We have a ton of friends who do this as well where mother speaks Russian to kids and father English.  I see these kids all the time and no language issues.  There all under ages of 10 and do very well in school. 
I also spend at least one hour or more a day reading to them in English and Spanish.  We live in Texas and Spanish is 1st language here.  Parents need to spend a lot of time teaching and reading to their kids.  I don't care if you work 16 hours a day, you need to make the time.
Kids can easily pick up 3 or more languages when young.  Most people in this world speak at least 2 languages well. 
 
 
 

[Ooooops]

Kids can easily pick up 3 or more languages when young.  Most people in this world speak at least 2 languages well.

I can't agree more!   It is such a gift to be born into family that speaks multiple languages.   

[GregfromGa]

ADE, you have absolutely no clue about what I did. Do you even read people threads or do you just chime in with inept observations, I was away from my home working a couple of times in my childs life. I was always at home. Where do you get this BS.  And for you to say I handled my M-I-L situation all wrong. Please  elaborate. Were you there? There is a reason I seldom frequent this place. It's a toolshed with the exception of a very few. You know who you are and I have always cherished your opinions and friendships. My ex didn't think I should try to speak English to my children until they learned Russian. Doesn't matter. I missed out on some but they are much better off now. Ade, you are a fking idiot.

[mies]

ADE, you have absolutely no clue about what I did. Do you even read people threads or do you just chime in with inept observations, I was away from my home working a couple of times in my childs life. I was always at home. ... Speaking English to our children when I was around was all I ever asked for.  ...

Ok, so if you say you were always at home, and then you say that you wanted your wife to speak English to children when you were at home and not speak Russian to them, essentially you forbade your wife to speak Russian to children and this is where the conflicts started. Is this correct?
This is where I am confused. Either you were at home little and you wanted your ex to speak English to children in these rare times when you were at home - I can perhaps understand this request. But if you are at home always, and during all this time you always asked your wife to speak English to children - essentially you did not allow her to speak in her native tongue to her children. So which one it was?

You are angry with your wife because you think it's all her fault. If you get facts straight in your mind, maybe it will be easier for you to let the anger go and to be happy and content.

[Ade]

Ok, so if you say you were always at home, and then you say that you wanted your wife to speak English to children when you were at home and not speak Russian to them, essentially you forbade your wife to speak Russian to children and this is where the conflicts started. Is this correct?
This is where I am confused. Either you were at home little and you wanted your ex to speak English to children in these rare times when you were at home - I can perhaps understand this request. But if you are at home always, and during all this time you always asked your wife to speak English to children - essentially you did not allow her to speak in her native tongue to her children. So which one it was?

You are angry with your wife because you think it's all her fault. If you get facts straight in your mind, maybe it will be easier for you to let the anger go and to be happy and content.

Greg is spinning the "I'm a victim" bullshit. He's contradicting himself here and with older threads - perhaps he can't keep his lies straight any more.  lol

[LiveFromUkraine]

Ok, so if you say you were always at home, and then you say that you wanted your wife to speak English to children when you were at home and not speak Russian to them, essentially you forbade your wife to speak Russian to children and this is where the conflicts started. Is this correct?
This is where I am confused. Either you were at home little and you wanted your ex to speak English to children in these rare times when you were at home - I can perhaps understand this request. But if you are at home always, and during all this time you always asked your wife to speak English to children - essentially you did not allow her to speak in her native tongue to her children. So which one it was?

You are angry with your wife because you think it's all her fault. If you get facts straight in your mind, maybe it will be easier for you to let the anger go and to be happy and content.

Mies, are you purposely being obtuse here?


I am sure Greg wasn't home every second of the day otherwise who would be working and bringing home money?




 

[Anotherkiwi]

Kids can easily pick up 3 or more languages when young.

Agree - as I stated in a similar thread months ago, I wish that I had grown up in a bi- or trilingual home.
 
 

Most people in this world speak at least 2 languages well.

Disagree - my French language skills were very good (8+) when I was in my twenties, but I don't need it here so it's now only fair (no more than 4 or 5 at best, although I'm sure that it would improve rapidly if I spent time in a French-speaking environment).  I also speak a little bit of Russian, and know a few words in other languages.  However, I'm an exception - only a very small percentage of native English speakers anywhere speak a language other than their own, simply because it has become the lingua franca (good English expression, that!  ) of a huge part of the world.
 
Sure, there are many "Anglo"-Canadians who also speak French, but they live in a country where these are both official languages, and where a significant proportion of the country has French as its first language.  There are also around 6 or 7 million in the USA whose first language is English but who also speak Spanish, according to the US Census Bureau in 2012, but even those are a very small proportion of the total population (approximately 2%).
 
An overwhelming majority of Asian and African people speak only their own native language, mainly because they don't interact with other cultures or travel in the way that Europeans and North Americans do.  Same appears to apply to the FSU - even though most people get taught English at school, very few (as a proportion of the total population) continue to use it.  In many cases people from different parts of the same country can't understand each other because of the multiplicity of languages and/or regional dialects (e.g. India, with its 300 different languages, or the Philippines), even though there may be a preferred language (Hindi or Tagalog, respectively). 
 
Of people who speak two or more languages, I would think that the majority (maybe even the great majority) have English as their second or third language rather than their first.

[mies]

I am sure Greg wasn't home every second of the day otherwise who would be working and bringing home money?

 

ok, so his "rule of the house" was that when he was at home he didn't want to hear Russian language spoken around him and to his children? Seems a bit too harsh and discriminative.

Also, he says he didn't speak any Russian. After 8 years of marriage with a person he does not speak any of this person's language? And wasn't trying to learn, judging by the fact that he didn't want people around him speaking Russian.

Doesn't the marriage/relationship require 100% of commitment and effort on both sides, not 50/50 or 80/20?

[Ranetka]

Regarding mother in law. If she was forbidden to speak Russian to kids then how would she communicate to them? From what i remember her English was poor if not non existent. Regardless if it's right or wrong for her to live in the house forbidding a granny to speak to kids is not reasonable and not fair.

[steveboy]

Christ!! there are some strange people about!!! Mentally disturbed if you ask me!!

[Faux Pas]

Christ!! there are some strange people about!!! Mentally disturbed if you ask me!!

One could easily assume that you've looked no farther than a mirror?

[steveboy]

One could easily assume that you've looked no farther than a mirror?

No:)) I have two young kids with me, speaking Russian and English:) Only a male chauvinist pig would demand his kids are not spoken to in Russian whilst married to a Russian women. Disgusting behaviour! 

[steveboy]

This makes the most sense to me.  I can't imagine how a "family" discussion being carried out in two languages would be very productive.

Why not??? Only stupid people can only have a conversation in one language)) To many people are to idle to learn another language, kids are pretty capable of speaking two/three languages very easy and switching between the two.