Calling All Old Posters-- ie Those missing on Forum for some time

[jmana]

Young guys have such a strong sex drive any woman who is available is acceptable, even an older, overweight and not very attractive one.  For many young guys a few days alone makes a knothole in a tree look attractive.

Ah yes, I do remember those days I'm glad I now can think about other things during the day besides sex, seriously it was horrible being that horny    Now I'm like the polar opposite of what I was, now I'll take a good  meal (hell I'll even take a good nap) over a quickie in the bedroom any day.

[philb]

Ken, 


I am glad to see you are around and doing well.  I don't get on these forums much any more, but I remember quite well your willingness to help others in this persuit (myself included).  Anyway, I have been married 8 years now to wonderful woman from Kiev.  She is special andcontinues to put up with me.  Again, glad that you are well and happy.

[KenC]

philb,
Congrats and best wishes of continued happiness.

[jone]

I've looked at some relationships that might be considered an age disparity relationship.  I would like to consider the alternative for some of these Eastern European women that DIDn't marry the WM that came calling:

Here she is, in many cases mid to late twenties, possibly thirties.  She probably has had a child, sometimes in wedlock, sometimes out of wedlock.  Many of the men that she might be with today have long since abandoned any Eastern European woman with a child as being too much responsibility. 

Those that have found love with an age commiserate Eastern European man find their man often out of work, sometimes an alcoholic and almost always, hardly able to provide the stable means to operate the family. 

The women of Eastern Europe make a choice.  They choose in such a way as to give their future child or children the best avenue for advancement in today's world.   If that limits the type of man that they would and can consider to be their husband, it is a choice made consciously. 

Once in the marriage, choices are again made.

One poster has come on this forum to suggest that a woman better get as much as she can from these marriages because ultimately the man is going to screw her and leave her.  That is a vinegar attitude that we can expect from the element of society that she represents.

I have a much more sympathetic view that a woman and man enter into the relationship and choose to make the most of it.  If, at some time, the relationship doesn't work out, the issue is not because one of the two in the relationship was out to screw the other one (no inferences intended) but that for reasons that we are not part of, they chose to end their marriage.

I have not talked with a man on this forum who, upon seeking and finding a wife from Eastern Europe, wouldn't seek to do everything possible to make that woman happy.  Those that can't believe that point of view are those that don't understand the bulk of men who are looking.  Such a perspective makes me question why such people are on this forum at all. 

Why would a person like that be here?  To castigate the membership proving that their perspective is superior?  Or that they have the only perspective that can find happiness? 

I have found one thing in dealing with relationships between these two areas of the world:  The partners of such unions have gone through so much to be together, that even if the marriage does not last, there is a substantial amount of effort that was put into the marriage.  There are, of course, exceptions.  But, by all accounts on this forum, not many of the membership fit into the bad category.

As to the Eastern European woman who chooses not to marry the WM who comes calling?  Well, her happiness is found in areas other than a relationship with a man.  After a period of time, she will face incredible odds against her in finding a future that involves a husband.

[Ranetka]

My thoughts tend to run the opposite of yours.   I don't think a lot of young women hop in bed with an older man for the fun of it.  It might be money, power, the attraction of a more mature man, the fact an older man will dote over a young gal, but not for for fun

Finally someone admits shagging an old man is no joy.

[pitbull]

These days the Cougar thing is very popular.  Older women even fat and not very attractive women find it easy to find a very young stud.  Young guys have such a strong sex drive any woman who is available is acceptable, even an older, overweight and not very attractive one.  For many young guys a few days alone makes a knothole in a tree look attractive.

Nope. Cougar women are specifically hot and good looking and that'sh ow they can find young studs. My co-worker is one 


Haven't seen a young stud going for a fat babushka, sorry - not in real life, not on TV. Unless it's a perversion.


Here's a cougar, she is the star of the "cougar town" show

[pitbull]

Looks like my posts draw some offended MOB-er attention, as always 


Anyway, here is a synopsis of my point regarding KenC's previous marriage:


KenC:  all-around winner, congrats! Good on you (seriously, you've done well!)
Lena: all-around loser. Sorry, girl


To all 19-y/o FSUW about to marry "Daddy" or "Grandpa". Here is the lesson on "how to do a large age gap marriage":


1. It has a shelf life, even if you don't think so now at your 19-20 y.o.
2. Northkape's Lena: That's how it is done
3. KenC's Lena: Wrong way to do it.


Follow the advice - you'll thank me later 

[Turboguy]

Larry, I am god's gift, not a sale from satan. 

Larry and I know the real truth.   

[Turboguy]

Nope. Cougar women are specifically hot and good looking and that'sh ow they can find young studs. My co-worker is one 
Haven't seen a young stud going for a fat babushka, sorry - not in real life, not on TV. Unless it's a perversion.
Here's a cougar, she is the star of the "cougar town" show

In some cases yes, but not all.  My former office manager would qualify as a cougar.  She was in her late forties, 5'4 or so and about 230 pounds and had a Brazilian boy toy of 21.  Of course she also had a husband as well but still I would consider her a cougar. 


Long ago when I looked at the American dating sites very often a really attractive woman in her late 40's would have an age range she was seeking that was 21-29.  But I also saw a lot of overweight and not very attractive women with the same age range.   My thoughts are that attractive older women often look for a boy toy "because the can".   There is no requirement for a Cougar to be hot and good looking.  Horny young guys will jump anything they can. 

[Turboguy]

Looks like my posts draw some offended MOB-er attention, as always 

Anyway, here is a synopsis of my point regarding KenC's previous marriage:

KenC:  all-around winner, congrats! Good on you (seriously, you've done well!)
Lena: all-around loser. Sorry, girl

That is not a synopsis Pitbull.  It is an opinion and one that differs from most here.   Is there really any difference in a marriage that lasts 10 years and then results in a divorce that has an age difference and one that doesn't?  Does one waste time more than the other? 


I have a cousin who about 40 years ago married a sweet young lady.  They had dreams of children and a happy life as they walked down that aisle.  Not all that long after they married she got sick.   For the last 30 years he has been pushing her around in a wheel chair.  They were never able to have kids so they compensated by adopting one child and by him being heavily involved with Boy Scouts.  I am sure some could see it as him having made a mistake and wasting his life.  Others could look at it as a beautiful story of love and devotion.  They are happy as can be under the circumstances and for me I admire him. He is a far better man than most in the world today.  I am proud to have him as part of my family.


We all make our choices and Lena made hers.  Ken didn't hold a gun to her head.  If I recall correctly Ken met her in 1998 which was the year the banks collapsed there and people were desperate to leave.  Ken brought her to America which was an unfulfilled dream of many in those days.  He treated her like a princess, gave her a house that many couldn't dream of, a nice life,  helped her get an education and when Ken got sick and had some problems she skated.   If I had to pick one to admire and one to consider a loser it is the opposite of how you see it.  Ken worked hard to put his problems behind him and to build a new life and has found a greater happiness than he had before.  I have a feeling that you are correct that Lena is a loser but not for the marriage that didn't last forever and yes, Ken is a winner, but not for his marriage to Lena, but just because Ken is a winner. 

[Faux Pas]

Finally someone admits shagging an old man is no joy.

Maybe you're just not doing it right 

[GregfromGa]

Pitbull, I think you missed the mark on this. I was about 11 years older than my ex. People change. Lena had a pretty good deal I'm thinking. I know my ex did. While Ken and Lena are over and done because of my kids I will always be linked with mine. My ex's husband and I are getting along great these days. He is the only voice of reason in that house other than my G7 and B4. He now understands some of the issues that lead to our divorce and he's only been married to her since August. I'm not saying there is trouble in paradise but there is trouble in paradise. Her unwillingness to leave her mother in Ukraine is straining her new marriage. He thinks it might be hormones but he knows deep down it's not. No amount of training he has ever received will prepare him for living with that woman and her mother. I wished him well and good luck. I told him to try and get some counseling but I know she will not do it and if she does sit in a class it will not work probably. The precedent they set with my 2 will be the same for his newborn.Regardless as to what the ladies may think here fathers want to know what is being said to their babies from time to time and it's respectful. There will continue to be issues and they will only get bigger unless she is willing to change. I honestly cant believe me ands this guy are getting along. I saw the look in his eyes a month or so ago and I know that look. It's utter frustration. I wouldn't want to be there again. He doesn't need to worry about me. He has a multitude of problems and he knows it now. I will not give too much advice as I dont have much to give.  He makes sure I get to talk and see my kids. This made me feel his pain. I hope and pray I am wrong for the sake of my kids. He's not a heroin addict and he comes from a good family. We are completely different people for the most part though. It isn't easy living with some of these women as proved by the divorce rate but it's hard with most I would guess. I'm certainly not mingling in their marriage but her and her mother will test his resolve. He told me I was completely right about his mother. My advice was get her ass back to Ukraine sooner rather than later. Her and her mother never let my kids talk to their grandfather over there. I call him and let him talk with my kids every week. He was such a good man.

[Gator]

Nevertheless I feel this uncalled for discussion about KenC's ex wife is well beyond of inappropriate and unkind.

Normally I would agree with you.  Because it is KenC I say it is okay even if a little troubling.

The negative side of large age gap marriages should be considered and understood by older men pursuing younger women, especially really young women.  Rather than hypothesize about the implications, KenC will report personal facts and observations based on real experiences. 

If there were a RW Forum Hall of Fame, I believe KenC should be in the first group of inductees.    I say that because he was among the first to report comprehensively about marrying a RW, because he has helped many, many men (and women) along the way, because of the candid insights he offered about his own marriage as it evolved,  and because the now old coot is very wise.  Perhaps he taught Solomon.

Some personal remarks were made about KenC and questions asked.  You can see the mettle of the man. 

[Gator]

To all 19-y/o FSUW about to marry "Daddy" or "Grandpa". Here is the lesson on "how to do a large age gap marriage":


1. It has a shelf life, even if you don't think so now at your 19-20 y.o.
2. Northkape's Lena: That's how it is done
3. KenC's Lena: Wrong way to do it.

I am not convinced that Northkape's Lena did everything right.  For sure, much is right.   She has two fine boys.  She earned a high education in a demanding field.  She is financially secure, able to support not only herself but her sons.  Her future has much promise with limitless possibilities. 

On the negative side, to advance her career, she must move to a larger city.  Her two young sons remain with their father because she wanted to minimize the disruption of their young vulnerable lives.   

Pitbull, while I have your attention, are there 19-yo RW reading RWD?  Perhaps your guidance should be directed at men who marry the 19-21 yo women, who as jone wrote do want their wives to be happy now and in the future.   

Do not forget my case, someone who takes on the responsibility of a 22-yo stepdaughter who has not completed her education and who wants her own family someday.   There are other men in my boat.   

[fathertime]

Well it is too bad that Pitbull didn't want to discuss further how he/she arrived at those opinions, but of course he/she is entitled to them. 


It would appear that what he/she is saying is to make sure that the woman receives something long-term because she deserves or is entitled to it from the man.   Earlier, I read that KenC's wife went all the way through college while their marriage was in session, although the degree isn't the best one out there, it is something and presumably it was on KenC's nickel...so his former wife did get something long-term out of the marriage. 


Myself, I think it always makes sense to think in terms of the long-term, at least to a point.  I don't think either spouse should expect the other spouse to set  the other up financially though.   


Fathertime! 

[Gator]

Haven't seen a young stud going for a fat babushka, sorry - not in real life, not on TV. Unless it's a perversion.

I know of one, a RW, and yes she is a babushka.  There are others, many others.  My fraternity house during my university days would get calls all the time from lonely older women.  A couple of my brothers did not care about appearances. 

Let's analyze the situation in the FSU.  It seems that most young RW already have a boyfriend or have a wealthy sponsor.  So the choice of females available to young men is limited, not as bad as in China, yet limited nonetheless.  However, there are women available for these young me.  Namely, the wives and ex's of the wealthy sponsors.  They make some tort for their stud muffin, are available 24-7 for gratification, make no demands realizing it is just sex, and maybe give him a little money. 

For a young man who can have sex more than 10 times per week, it matters little.  And if she is not so pretty, he goes at night and turns off the lights.

[Gator]

Well it is too bad that Pitbull didn't want to discuss further how he/she arrived at those opinions, but of course he/she is entitled to them. 

He/she?  Pitbull is a RW, a young mother married to an AM, and presumably highly educated.  However, I bet you sensed that.   

At first I wondered why a woman would chose the name Pitbull.   

[Gator]

It would appear that what he/she is saying is to make sure that the woman receives something long-term because she deserves or is entitled to it from the man.   

Entitlement. Entitlement is central to the mentality of some RW.  Such RW feel they deserve special privileges simply because they are beautiful and young.   IMO it is more than bartering.  Threads have been devoted to the issue.   I blame RM for creating this plus the fact that many families have only one child.

The attitude can be summarized as "Give me money."  "Why?"  "Because I am beautiful."   This happens some in America, yet not nearly to the same degree IMO. 

You are married to a Columbian woman.  I do not know about her culture.   Decades ago I had a tall Peruvian GF in America for over one year, and she was well adjusted and not the least egocentric.  She came from a large family.   

Those RW who feel entitled are not hopeless.  My wife was coddled all of her working life.  Limos, the best hotels, the best restaurants, TV, handsome and wealthy men galore,  ....

Actually she was fairly grounded considering her near celebrity status.  Yet there were moments when we clashed.  Guess what?    Her sense of entitlement went away when she started to love me, really love me. Its been replaced by expectations, all of which I agree to if I did not propose them first.

[Gator]

GregfromGA,

That is good news and bad news.   It is good that you and the new husband see eye-to-eye as he is an important part of your children's lives.

It is bad if this suggests  the same marital problems will happen again.   The worst thing for your children's stability is if this continues  to deteriorate and your wife divorces again a few years from now. 

   

[fathertime]

He/she?  Pitbull is a RW, a young mother married to an AM, and presumably highly educated.  However, I bet you sensed that.   

At first I wondered why a woman would chose the name Pitbull.   

Thanks Gator, didn't know for sure what Pitbull's background was.. 




One of the takeaways I'm getting here is an obvious one.  Some ladies are more industrious than others...some ladies make better decisions in terms of their future than others.  If a RW chooses to use her time to secure a solid position in life, if her spouse dies, or they divorce, then she will probably reap that benefit...on the other hand, if a RW chooses to file her nails and watch TV all day, then she may have to suffer the consequences at a later date for the life of luxury she would have in the present. 


Maybe huge disparities in marital ages does mean the marriage likely has a shelf life, but obviously that doesn't always have to be the case.   For the sake of future planning, it is probably best for the lady to assume the marital time is finite and thereby take some steps in preparation for an independent life at some point, whether it be a spouses death, severe illness, or divorce. Perhaps this was Pitbull's point, which is not unreasonable....if a lady doesn't prepare than she really has to blame herself...right?


Fathertime! 

[KenC]

Pitbull,
I find your opinions crass and shallow, bordering on vulgar.  As typical of most Russians, you view life through a black and white spectrum.  I understand this because I was raised very Russian,  At a very early age I refused to accept their tunnel vision and sought to find the rest of the rainbow of colors available.  I followed my own path in life then and now.
Your opinion on this matter is devoid of any allowance for love or any emotion what so ever.  That is the flaw in your thinking.  Two people fell in love for 10 years.  Period.  It wasn't a calculated move on anyones part.  Regardless of age, country, culture or physical appearance; they emotionally bonded for 10 years.  Nobody "suffered" during those 10 years.  In fact both parties enjoyed the love affair immensensly.
After 10 years the emotions, values and aspirations changed.  They parted ways in a dignified and amicable fashion.  The "gains and losses" were equal and never the point of the relationship.  "wasted time"?  Not by a long shot.
KenC

[Daveman]

KenC:  all-around winner, congrats! Good on you (seriously, you've done well!)
Lena: all-around loser. Sorry, girl

That's an interesting summary.  I have to disagree.

Lena: lived the good life for 8-10 years - money, shopping, cars, education, apparently left as Ken's health and money situation temporarily deteriorated - and six years after the divorce has still done very little to improve her own life. 

She chose not to have children. She freely married. She freely left.  She could have left years earlier but didn't.

Now if you are saying that Lena *is* an all around "loser" because of her apparent lack of post marriage career success, that's a different animal and I have no idea about that, but she was far from the "all-around loser" in the marriage. 

[Misha]

To all 19-y/o FSUW about to marry "Daddy" or "Grandpa". Here is the lesson on "how to do a large age gap marriage":


1. It has a shelf life, even if you don't think so now at your 19-20 y.o.
2. Northkape's Lena: That's how it is done
3. KenC's Lena: Wrong way to do it.

The thing is, the same advice should be followed by the 19yo woman whether she is marrying the boy next door who is the same age as her or the "old dude" resulting in a "large age gap marriage":


1. Support each other, but do not expect him/her to make you happy and strive to ensure your own success, regardless of how you define success;
2. Any marriage is a risky proposition and you must continue (or start depending on the case in question) to work hard to improve yourself and your skills and your life regardless of whether you are single or married

Follow the advice - you'll thank me later 

Ditto

[Gator]

Damn Misha, stop being so reasonable.     It detracts from the detractors.   

 

[Gator]

Your opinion on this matter is devoid of any allowance for love or any emotion what so ever.  That is the flaw in your thinking.  Two people fell in love for 10 years.  Period.  It wasn't a calculated move on anyones part.  Regardless of age, country, culture or physical appearance; they emotionally bonded for 10 years. 

A few posters seem to dismiss love.   That in itself is revealing. 
 

The problem Ken is that many posters were not around RW forums all those years when you posted about your marriage.  It would be a monumental effort to read all of your posts.  And many of your posts have disappeared with RWG, etc.

I believe posters wanting to know more and not rely on gut feelings should read your "Trip Report 10 years Late."  Here is your T/R made in 2008, 13 pages and over 20,000 reads: 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6850.0


And you will find there some of the same sentiment as shown here.  The vast majority of RW would never consider a large age gap measure.  And a few such RW seem to dismiss facts and presume that any and all such marriages are not genuine.  The marriages never could be about love. 

I do not know if Pitbull is saying this or not.   

And do not forget Lena's T/R:   http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5067.0