Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[The Natural]

I dont like to personalise my comments too much on such serious issues-- but-- you are happy to have Ukraine invaded-- and then worry that your heat may be turned off? I mean really-- get it into perspective--Ukarine has just escaped being a war zone with all the potential consequences to people and property- and your biggest worry is that sanctions against Russia could create a "minor" problem for you? Summers coming!!

I'm not happy about the military tension in Crimea, but I'm happy the people living there for the time being at least have a sense of security. I'm pretty certain Russia will pull back eventually IF the security and rights of ethnic Russians will be guaranteed.
 
Me worrying that my heat may be turned off? Hahahahahahaha.... come on Jay, I thought you were an expert on European matters, with the title of this thread and all. In Norway we don't use gas for heating, we use electricity made from waterfalls. On top of that Norway is a major EXPORTER of gas to the continent.
 
But I agree with you that summer is coming 

[The Natural]

Washington’s Arrogance, Hubris, and Evil Have Set the Stage for War
 
Paul Craig Roberts
 
In some quarters public awareness is catching up with Stephen Lendman, Michel Chossudovsky, Rick Rozoff, myself and a few others in realizing the grave danger in the crisis that Washington has created in Ukraine.
 
The puppet politicians who Washington intended to put in charge of Ukraine have lost control to organized and armed neo-nazis, who are attacking Jews, Russians, and intimidating Ukrainian politicians. The government of Crimea, a Russian province that Khrushchev transferred to the Ukraine Soviet Republic in the 1950s, has disavowed the illegitimate government that illegally seized power in Kiev and requested Russian protection. The Ukrainian military forces in Crimea have gone over to Russia. The Russian government has announced that it will also protect the former Russian provinces in eastern Ukraine as well.
 
As Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn pointed out, it was folly for the Communist Party of the Soviet Union to transfer historic provinces of Russia into Ukraine. At the time it seemed to the Soviet leadership like a good thing to do. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and had been ruled by Russia since the 18th century. Adding Russian territory to Ukraine served to water down the nazi elements in western Ukraine that had fought for Hitler during World War 2. Perhaps another factor in the enlargement of Ukraine was the fact of Khrushchev’s Ukrainian heritage.
 
Regardless, it did not matter until the Soviet Union and then the former Russian empire itself fell apart. Under Washington’s pressure, Ukraine became a separate country retaining the Russian provinces, but Russia retained its Black Sea naval base in Crimea.
 
Washington tried, but failed, to take Ukraine in 2004 with the Washington-financed “Orange Revolution.” According to Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, since this failure Washington has “invested” $5 billion in Ukraine in order to foment agitation for EU membership for Ukraine. EU membership would open Ukraine to looting by Western bankers and corporations, but Washington’s main goal is to establish US missile bases on Russia’s border with Ukraine and to deprive Russia of its Black Sea naval base and military industries in eastern Ukraine. EU membership for Ukraine means NATO membership.
 
Washington wants missile bases in Ukraine in order to degrade Russia’s nuclear deterrent, thus reducing Russia’s ability to resist US hegemony. Only three countries stand in the way of Washington’s hegemony over the world, Russia, China, and Iran.
 
Iran is surrounded by US military bases and has US fleets off its coast. The “Pivot to Asia” announced by the warmonger Obama regime is ringing China with air and naval bases. Washington is surrounding Russia with US missile and NATO bases. The corrupt Polish and Czech governments were paid to accept US missile and radar bases, which makes the Polish and Czech puppet states prime targets for nuclear annihilation. Washington has purchased the former Russian and Soviet province of Georgia, birthplace of Joseph Stalin, and is in the process of putting this puppet into NATO.
Washington’s Western European puppets are too greedy for Washington’s money to take cognizance of the fact that these highly provocative moves are a direct strategic threat to Russia. The attitude of European governments seems to be, “after me, the deluge.”
 
Russia has been slow to react to the many years of Washington’s provocations, hoping for some sign of good sense and good will to emerge in the West. Instead, Russia has experienced rising demonization from Washington and European capitals and foaming at the mouth vicious denunciations by the West’s media whores. The bulk of the American and European populations are being brainwashed to see the problem that Washington’s meddling has caused in Ukraine to be Russia’s fault. Yesterday, I heard on National Public Radio a presstitute from the New Republic describe Putin as the problem.
 
The ignorance, absence of integrity, and lack of independence of the US media greatly enhances the prospect for war. The picture being drawn for insouciant Americans is totally false. An informed people would have burst out laughing when US Secretary of State John Kerry denounced Russia for “invading Ukraine” in “violation of international law.” Kerry is the foreign minister of a country that has illegally invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, organized the overthrow of the government in Libya, tried to overthrow the government in Syria, attacks the civilian populations of Pakistan and Yemen with drones and missiles, constantly threatens Iran with attack, unleashed the US and Israeli trained Georgian army on the Russian population of South Ossetia, and now threatens Russia with sanctions for standing up for Russians and Russian strategic interests. The Russian government noted that Kerry has raised hypocrisy to a new level.
 
Kerry has no answer to the question: “Since when does the United States government genuinely subscribe and defend the concept of sovereignty and territorial integrity?”
Kerry, as is always the case, is lying through his teeth. Russia hasn’t invaded Ukraine. Russia sent a few more troops to join those at its Black Sea base in view of the violent anti-Russian statements and actions emanating from Kiev. As the Ukrainian military in Crimea defected to Russia, the additional Russian troops were hardly necessary.
 
The stupid Kerry, wallowing in his arrogance, hubris, and evil, has issued direct threats to Russia. The Russian foreign minister has dismissed Kerry’s threats as “unacceptable.” The stage is set for war.
 
Note the absurdity of the situation. Kiev has been taken over by ultra-nationalist neo-nazis. A band of ultra-nationalist thugs is the last thing the European Union wants or needs as a member state. The EU is centralizing power and suppressing the sovereignty of the member states. Note the alignment of the neoconservative Obama regime with anti-semitic neo-nazis. The neoconservative clique that has dominated the US government since the Clinton regime is heavily Jewish, many of whom are dual Israeli/US citizens. The Jewish neoconservatives, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and National Security Adviser Susan Rice, have lost control of their coup to neo-Nazis who preach “death to the Jews.”
 
The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on February 24 that Ukrainian Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman advised “Kiev’s Jews to leave the city and even the country.” Edward Dolinsky, head of an umbrella organization of Ukrainian Jews, described the situation for Ukrainian Jews as “dire” and requested Israel’s help.
 
This is the situation that Washington created and defends, while accusing Russia of stifling Ukrainian democracy. An elected democracy is what Ukraine had before Washington overthrew it.
At this time there is no legitimate Ukrainian government.
 
Everyone needs to understand that Washington is lying about Ukraine just as Washington lied about Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, just as Washington lied about Iranian nukes, just as Washington lied about Syrian president Assad using chemical weapons, just as Washington lied about Afghanistan, Libya, NSA spying, torture. What hasn’t Washington lied about?
Washington is comprised of three elements: Arrogance, Hubris, and Evil. There is nothing else there.

[die_cast]

Putin... the new Hitler.

You don't know much about Hitler, do you? Or just trying to write something cool?

I just believe you are incredibly naive.

Why would I care about your beliefs?  I can be incredibly naive, but I realize that no matter what political games now our President is playing, there will not be a war between Russia and Ukraine.

I would hope my wife and brother wouldn't be attacking me...she wouldn't be my wife much longer..
What kind of fanatics attack their own family ?
No wonder the UK won't get involved.

I have a feeling I'm watching "Downton Abbey" and you are the Dowager Countess of Grantham. 

Putin will use these planes to bomb Ukraine. 

Yep, guys, keep dreaming about it. 

[lordtiberius]

The Aircraft Carrier USS George HW Bush is headed toward the Black Sea.

http://turnerradionetwork.com/news/340-pat

Bipartisan support coalescing in the UK against Russia:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/04/william-hagues-statement-to-mps-on-ukraine-politics-live-blog

[Muzh]

I kinda agree with most of this surprisingly.


Most posters here seem to be just warmongering silly boys swallowing what the western media are feeding them - you guys realize that escalating this is a no win situation, right? Putin and his army were over the top and are heavy handed going into Crimea, yes, no doubt in my mind about that but the pretend government in Kiev with ties to the far right seem to be no better if you ask me. In the middle are the ethnic Russians and the good Ukrainians that just want peace, and equality.


My guess is that Putin doesn't want Ukraine. What he wants is a seceded Crimea and, tbh, if the majority of the people in Crimea want that, then they should get it. Kiev really would be hypocritical denying the majority what they want after what they've just been through in Kiev to get just that now wouldn't they?

Ade, you are normally my comrade-in-arms but this time I'll have to dissent a bit.
 
First, I totally agree with the wrmongering silly boys. It is way over the top. Also agree that escalating this conflict into a war will produce no winners.
 
 
But that's about it.
 
You want to see propaganda? This morning my wife was talking to her sister in Kharkiv and she started laughing. I asked her and she said that on Russian news Putin claims the troops in Crimea are basically Ukrainian self-defense troops protecting themselves from hordes of Nazis. Then I get this link in my email.

Putin says he will protect Russians in Ukraine
 
You seem to be very concern about the "Nazi" situation in Ukraine. I believe the Nazis in Ukraine are as relevant as the Nazis in Russia as well as the Nazis in the rest of Europe. So, you tell me what you think about them Nazis?
 
You are absolutely correct that in the middle there are ethnic Russians and Ukrainians that all they want is peace.
 

 
What happened in Maidan was that the dog turned around and bit its master for being hit one time too many. And right now Putin wants to come in and become the new master. However, that will NOT stop the beatings.
 
It is easy to dispell reality by claiming propaganda. As a thinking and rational man, I put you above that.

[BillyB]

Billy, Yanukovich is dead politically - he's not going to be reinstated.

Have you read the news lately? We're now dealing with guns. Politics doesn't matter anymore. Only the West thinks sanctions will solve this problem. Yanukovych wrote a letter to Russia for help and Russia said "yes". Russia needs Yanukovych to make everything they do legal since they are obtaining permission from Ukraine's legal president. Once they take over all Ukraine, they will reinstate Yanukovych. How long he lasts depends on Russia, not Ukrainian citizens.

Russia had very little to do with it, the people of Ukraine elected Yanukovich as President.
 Because it isn't true?

Russia pays attention to politics in their surrounding countries. They got their preferred man to be president in Ukraine and you don't think Russia played a role in creating puppet leaders? Russia now understand Ukrainians don't like Yanukovych after his criminal activity was exposed so they will keep him in power until they find another likable "yes" man to control Ukraine.

[Hammer2722]

http://espreso.tv/new/2014/03/03/ukrayinoyu_hastrolyuye_odna_y_ta_sama_trupa_rosiyskykh_patriotiv

[BC]

The Aircraft Carrier USS George HW Bush is headed toward the Black Sea.

http://turnerradionetwork.com/news/340-pat

Interesting from the linked article:

The carrier has not actually entered the Black Sea and may not be able to.  The Montreux Convention Regarding Regime of the Straits forbids ships whose sole purpose is launching of aircraft, from passing into the Black Sea.  Russia was able to bypass this restriction by pointing out that its aircraft carrier(s) performed operations other than launching aircraft.  As a state bordering the Black Sea, Russia got away with this; the U.S. may not.  Even though Turkey is a NATO ally, they retain absolute legal authority over the strait of Bosporus and it will be Turkey's call on whether or not to allow the ship into the Black Sea.

Will be interesting to see if they pass thru or just hang around the Aegean Sea for a while before heading elsewhere.

[jone]

In a carefully controlled media event, Vladimir Vladimirovich stated the following:

1.  We have no territorial ambitions

2.  We have no Russian troops in Crimea / They are local self defense troops

3.  Military force is a last resort

4.  Says he sees no political future for Yanukovych

5.  States that he believes that the Rada is legitimate but that the President is not


What do you think?

[Hammer2722]

personally, I would not believe a single word coming from the mouth of Putin.

[Gylden]

Not sure I would put any weight on anything comming from turnerradionetwork.com

[The Natural]

The propaganda machine in western countries are working overtime, but it seems Putin still hold all the aces. Military action from the west is out of the question unless the US President becomes so depressed that he decides to suicide the whole world. But the US really want to start an economic war with sanctions on all that is Russian. The EU, yes even the idiots in Brussels is backing away from that idea as it's going to hurt themselves more than Russia. Will the US go alone in sanctions? Doubtful, because as Kurt Nimmo reports:
 
"If sanctions are applied against state structures, we will be forced to recognize the impossibility of repayment of the loans that the US banks gave to the Russian structures. Indeed, sanctions are a double-edged weapon, and if the US chooses to freeze our assets, then our equities and liabilities in dollars will also be frozen. This means that our banks and businesses will not return the loans to American partners,” he said.
 
Additionally, Glazyev said, Russia would likely dump the dollar to reduce its dependence on the U.S. financial system and switch to other currencies. “We have wonderful economic and trade relations with our Southern and Eastern partners,” he said. “We will find a way not just to eliminate our dependence on the U.S. but also profit from these sanctions.”
 
USA will never be as foolish as to do anything that can threaten the US dollars standing as the reserve currency of the world. If they lose that, they lose their empire.
 
So what's left? Keep high level officials from Paralympics? No visas issued for Russians to the west? Strong words in hypocritical condemnation? Yeah, I guess that's about it 
 
 

[jone]

One of the more interesting statements he made was:

Ukraine has much more corruption than Russia.

Is it just me, or does John Kerry do a great Jason Robards imitation?

[jone]

You would be surprised at how foolish the US can be.

Sometimes the US is so foolish it even surprises the fools.

[justme100]

Interesting from the linked article:

Will be interesting to see if they pass thru or just hang around the Aegean Sea for a while before heading elsewhere.

Oh, they must be carrying to China the USA external debt in gold
Or want to keep their minds on fresh sea air in order to have any ideas as to how withdraw the USA troops from Afganistan

[justme100]

Meanwhile more photos of bloody cruelties and agressive intervention of people in an "unidentified uniform" to Crimea

[justme100]

So what's left? Keep high level officials from Paralympics? No visas issued for Russians to the west? Strong words in hypocritical condemnation? Yeah, I guess that's about it 

Don't forget about MC'Donalds, please. I won't survive if they close it here, I like to pamper myself with nice latte from time to time

[Muzh]

The propaganda machine in western countries are working overtime, but it seems Putin still hold all the aces. Military action from the west is out of the question unless the US President becomes so depressed that he decides to suicide the whole world. But the US really want to start an economic war with sanctions on all that is Russian. The EU, yes even the idiots in Brussels is backing away from that idea as it's going to hurt themselves more than Russia. Will the US go alone in sanctions? Doubtful, because as Kurt Nimmo reports:
 
"If sanctions are applied against state structures, we will be forced to recognize the impossibility of repayment of the loans that the US banks gave to the Russian structures. Indeed, sanctions are a double-edged weapon, and if the US chooses to freeze our assets, then our equities and liabilities in dollars will also be frozen. This means that our banks and businesses will not return the loans to American partners,” he said.
 
Additionally, Glazyev said, Russia would likely dump the dollar to reduce its dependence on the U.S. financial system and switch to other currencies. “We have wonderful economic and trade relations with our Southern and Eastern partners,” he said. “We will find a way not just to eliminate our dependence on the U.S. but also profit from these sanctions.”
 
USA will never be as foolish as to do anything that can threaten the US dollars standing as the reserve currency of the world. If they lose that, they lose their empire.
 
So what's left? Keep high level officials from Paralympics? No visas issued for Russians to the west? Strong words in hypocritical condemnation? Yeah, I guess that's about it 

 
LMAO
 
Is that why Ms. Merkel is questioning Putin's sense of reality? Because the Western propaganda has gotten to him?
 
Roy, you are funny.

[pokerintherear]

Dear propaganda minister

You might look into changing your Ukraine stop signs to the Russian language.

[Muzh]

Justme, any sense when the big bad Ukrainian Nazis army are going to fire that shot?
 
Putin is getting anxious. he keeps asking why haven't they fired yet?
 
Since you are right there, can you let us know when it is going to happen?
 
LMFAO
 
No, no. It must be that the Hetmans are raping and pillaging just a bit noth of Crimea so they are running late, right?
 
Do you know what a Hetman is? It is a Ukrainian warlord. Do they teach that in the Ukrainian schools in Crimea?

[justme100]

Justme, any sense when the big bad Ukrainian Nazis army are going to fire that shot?
 
Putin is getting anxious.

Did you see his conference today?Anxious is the last world that can be applied to him now

[Muzh]

The British are calling Putin a fibber (aka fcuking liar) and Angela Merkel is questioning his sense of reality.
 
I'd say the press conference went well, don't you think?

[justme100]

Justme, any sense when the big bad Ukrainian Nazis army are going to fire that shot?
 
Putin is getting anxious. he keeps asking why haven't they fired yet?
 
Since you are right there, can you let us know when it is going to happen?
 

Sorry, fire whom?

[Muzh]

Did you see his conference today?Anxious is the last world that can be applied to him now

As I mentioned in another thread, the British are calling him a fibber, for not using stronger language like fcuking liar, and Angela Merkel is questioning his sense of reality. What does that tell you?

[Muzh]

Sorry, fire whom?

LMFAO
 
His whole house of cards is collapsing, that's whom.