Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[jmana]

So I wanted to update on my situation.  Last night Alina and I had a long talk after the kiddos went to bed.  It turns out she wants the same things I do, it's just that she has been feeling overwhelmed by everything.  She talked to some friends who live here and they told her it takes up to a year to really adjust to everything.   Plus she said Maria has been acting worse since coming here, and she is not sure what to do about it because she knows it is really difficult to spend any time with me without her daughter getting jealous and acting out.  So she came up with what I think is a good compromise.  She said now that she is able to stay awake later she will put Maria to sleep and then come downstairs to spend time with me.  She said she'd like to have "dates" in the dining room with no distractions.  I think given the circumstances, with both of us having a kid, and her not feeling comfortable yet leaving her daughter with a sitter, that it's a good solution to help us bond.  I made clear that I didn't appreciate being made to feel second rate to her computer, but just left it at that.  I didn't ask her to defend her actions, just told her that I understand the online stuff got her through some rough periods of her life when she felt she didn't have a purpose or future, but her future now is her daughter and she needs to grow up and focus on Maria.  I told her I'd also like to be in her future, but that's dependent on how things go over the next couple months.  I know that's not much time, and she could definitely "fake it" for that short amount of time, but I also know if I would just say F it and send her home now that I would always wonder "what if" for the rest of my life.  I don't want to have any more "what ifs" in my life. 

[Muzh]

Yep.
 
So when is she going to join you in your bed?
 
No need to answer us. Just yourself.
 
Simple question, when is day 751?

[jmana]

Yep.
 
So when is she going to join you in your bed?

I already answered that one

[Willowtree]

but I also know if I would just say F it and send her home now that I would always wonder "what if" for the rest of my life.

Oh. This is EXACTLY what I said somewhere upthread. "...And dealing with your inner voice."
(adding - which is likely to haunt you for long, if not till the end of your days.)

First small achievement - Alina opened up to talk (a bit). Good for all of you (I hope). Keep it up.

[Gator]

Yep.
 
So when is she going to join you in your bed?
 
No need to answer us. Just yourself.
 
Simple question, when is day 751?

Muzh, lighten up please. 

You and I never would have taken jmana's path, and if by mistake we had,  both of us would have exited a week ago based on tons of abnormal behavior, particularly her depressed coldness, the lack of sex with none expected in the future, etc.  However, deciding to marry is usually based on feelings, not facts. jmana is clearly hearing an "inner voice" (Willowtree's term).  That is what happens when one has an emotional attachment.  And he is following the voice.

BTW, when you say "day 751," you are revealing that you are old school.  The two-year marriage requirement to remove conditions on residence is waived if the conditional resident (immigrant) shows that he/she entered the marriage in good faith.     

[Gator]

I told her I'd also like to be in her future, but that's dependent on how things go over the next couple months.  I know that's not much time, and she could definitely "fake it" for that short amount of time, but I also know if I would just say F it and send her home now that I would always wonder "what if" for the rest of my life.  I don't want to have any more "what ifs" in my life.

You know that you are following a difficult road with many bumps so far and few signs that it will improve.  You have received a lot of good advice, which frankly would have sent me running a week ago. 

By continuing, you must be feeling something very precious, and I commend you for wanting to give the relationship every chance to right itself.    It is your life, and you know more than any of us. 

I too followed a difficult road.  I did something that 95% of the men would never contemplate - my wife spoke little English when we met and my Russian was worse.  I threw in the towel a couple of times, yet years later and after much torment, it is heaven.  What compelled me to keep thinking maybe - that inner voice.  Ain't love grand. 

[jmana]

I too followed a difficult road.  I did something that 95% of the men would never contemplate - my wife spoke little English when we met and my Russian was worse.  I threw in the towel a couple of times, yet years later and after much torment, it is heaven.  What compelled me to keep thinking maybe - that inner voice.  Ain't love grand.

Oh wow, that would be difficult.  I always wondered how people manage when the communication barriers are so great that neither really speak each other's language.  I assume your wife quickly learned English?  But I knew one couple years ago that had been married for more than 10 years and the wife still didn't speak much English.  Of course the guy was so backwards and odd he spoke very little to begin with, so maybe it was a match made in heaven.  I just never could figure out what their "conversations" must be like. 

[Muzh]

Oh, I can hear that gushing sound.

[Ade]

Oh wow, that would be difficult.  I always wondered how people manage when the communication barriers are so great that neither really speak each other's language.  I assume your wife quickly learned English?  But I knew one couple years ago that had been married for more than 10 years and the wife still didn't speak much English.  Of course the guy was so backwards and odd he spoke very little to begin with, so maybe it was a match made in heaven.  I just never could figure out what their "conversations" must be like.

Ironic that considering your "fiancée" could speak English and yet you still didn't manage to communicate with her very well if at all.

[Gator]

I always wondered how people manage when the communication barriers are so great that neither really speak each other's language.

This thread is your story, not  mine, yet I will comment to illustrate that communication took place.  You can contrast it with your situation.  In fact, I bet we communicated more in our first few weeks together than you and Alina have.  I am serious. 

One thing that attracted me to my wife in the beginning is that somehow we communicated.  If we could overcome such a barrier, the sky was the limit IMO.   10 reasons (without any gush so as to not offend Muzh) why it happened:

1.  Neither of us is reticent.
2.  Trust, trust and more trust.
3.  Wanting to communicate in order to build a relationship.
4.  Having common values.
5.  Being direct, forthright and honest.
6.  Focusing on the words we understood - I still recall many times looking at each other in the eye and saying/asking pravda.
7.  Electronic translator - which requires clarity, brevity, directness and patience.
8.  Interpreter  (used them only three times in our first week together but were essential).
9.  Somehow finding a way around the misunderstandings - mostly amusing, but also our two darkest hours.
10.  Luck. 

Believe it or not, we communicated.  Equally important, we had a lot of fun together.  Most men here do not believe it.   Muzh is one.   That's okay because it is my life, not his.  Looking back, I admit I am amazed. 

How many of these "10 reasons" do you and Alina have?  You don't need #7 but do you both have the clarity, brevity, directness and patience I listed?   With regard to #8, you don't need an interpreter but an interpreter can provide a facilitator function.  I just hope that you and Alina in your remaining time are able to communicate as much. 

[Muzh]

Believe it or not, we communicated.  Equally important, we had a lot of fun together.  Most men here do not believe it.   Muzh is one.   That's okay because it is my life, not his.  Looking back, I admit I am amazed. 

Excuuuuuze me. I have met women who didn't speak a word of Spanish nor English and I had a blast with them. Lotsa fun.
 
Now, you are absolutely correct it is YOUR life and you shouldn't give a fig of what I believe.
 
The problem I WOULD have, if that WOULD be the problem, is when guys here start telling other people who, to beging with, are having problems communicating with women from their own backyard that it is VERY doable to find a babe who can't speak shit of their language and it is VERY okay to go and bring them here because everything is going to be VERY doable.
 
Since you are the engineer and have that engineering mentality, does this make sense? Or is it true that engineering schools obliterate the students' common sense by sophomor year?   

[Misha]

So I wanted to update on my situation.  Last night Alina and I had a long talk after the kiddos went to bed.  It turns out she wants the same things I do, it's just that she has been feeling overwhelmed by everything.  She talked to some friends who live here and they told her it takes up to a year to really adjust to everything.   Plus she said Maria has been acting worse since coming here, and she is not sure what to do about it because she knows it is really difficult to spend any time with me without her daughter getting jealous and acting out.

It is nice to see that you two are communicating. You seem to have made quite the breakthrough.

I made clear that I didn't appreciate being made to feel second rate to her computer, but just left it at that.  I didn't ask her to defend her actions, just told her that I understand the online stuff got her through some rough periods

You do seem to be making a really good effort to engage without pushing her away. Kudos!

[Gator]

 
Since you are the engineer and have that engineering mentality, does this make sense? Or is it true that engineering schools obliterate the students' common sense by sophomor year?

No.  Those scientists like you who spent a lot of time concocting stuff in laboratory beakers should be concerned.  Or maybe it was the bio studies and your microorgasms .  BTW, where was your emoticon when writing me?  Shirley, you were not serious.  I rectum you were.

   The problem I WOULD have, if that WOULD be the problem, is when guys here start telling other people who, to beging with, are having problems communicating with women from their own backyard that it is VERY doable to find a babe who can't speak shit of their language and it is VERY okay to go and bring them here because everything is going to be VERY doable.

No argument.  we are getting off-topic, so no comment other than I believe you are missing the point of why I explained my case to jmana. 

See, it was a mistake not giving you a dose of gushing sounds. 

[Jumper]

He said she speaks very good English, however they just started communicating /dating.

Seems like a second date level,maybe.

[Muzh]

BTW, where was your emoticon when writing me?  Shirley, you were not serious.  I rectum you were.

My bad. Fixed. 

[TomT]

  I told her I'd also like to be in her future, but that's dependent on how things go over the next couple months.

You should have left out the disclaimer.

[Muzh]

I told her I'd also like to be in her future, but that's dependent on how things go over the next couple months. 

You should have left out the disclaimer.

Tom, I've been saying it. The man is cluless.

[JayH]

You should have left out the disclaimer.

 
Tom, I've been saying it. The man is cluless.

That is not what TomT said.  Pretty clear that you are a clueless individual which is highlighted by your constant and continuing harassment of Jmana in this thread.You made your view known-- do you really think there is any point in repeating it-- and repeating it-- and repeating it?
If you actually bothered to read the thread you would see the guy has taken on board some of the advice and suggestions from those that offered it --and some progress has been made.--so good on everyone that has tried to help here.

[Isthmus]

I know this is off the central topic but just my brief observation about language and understanding each other.

I had the view that anyone I date must be a fluent English speaker. I dated a UW and a RW who were both university trained English speakers with a high level of English language proficiency and they used that language in their professional lives.

Currently I am dating a Kazakh lady who whilst speaking solid, workable English, is certainly not as English language proficient as previous FSU women I dated and some gaps are filled by my slowly improving Russian.  However, I find significantly less communication problems with her. There aren't many misunderstandings at all. I am starting to believe that factors such as mentality, temperament, mindset, chemistry etc are vital aspects in the communication matrix. If you are not on the same wavelength it won't help you that her English is at the level of a UN simultaneous translator.  Just my two cents worth ...

[BillyB]

I made clear that I didn't appreciate being made to feel second rate to her computer, but just left it at that.

You didn't mention Alina's response but I assume she left it at that too without further comment.

  I know that's not much time, and she could definitely "fake it" for that short amount of time, but I also know if I would just say F it and send her home now that I would always wonder "what if" for the rest of my life.  I don't want to have any more "what ifs" in my life.

You'll always have "what ifs" in your life. You marry this gal and it fails, you'll have a "what if" you sent her home and pursued someone more compatible that gave you less doubt. Truth is you wish you weren't in this situation. Truth is you know there is better women out there. If you're a man that can get hooked up with another women easily, then say goodbye to Alina. If you feel you have little options when it comes to women, then you can roll the dice with Alina. Considering you have a son to worry about, it's much more important that you make a good decision on a woman than if you were single and gambling on a woman isn't a smart move.


You didn't answer my question earlier if Alina is giving the same care and treatment to your son as you are giving to her daughter. You should also factor her behavior with your son in your decision to marry or not marry Alina. I'm not too thrilled with Alina's skill at being a mother with her own daughter. She said she's concerned about her daughter's behavior yet Alina is on the internet most of the time. Her actions are contradicting her words. Which is more important, words or action?


Most people who say you should send Alina home are saying it with the hope you will find happiness someday. There's nothing you said about Alina that anybody can praise. I've even suspected things may be worse than you've let on but too ashamed to talk about. Think about some of the marriages between couples you admire in real life and at the forum. Think about some of the quality women you met in your life. Then think "what if?"

[TomT]

That is not what TomT said.  Pretty clear that you are a clueless individual...

Muzh's response indicates that he understood exactly what was on my mind.

[jone]

Muzh said that there shouldn't be any qualifications.  Those are doubts that should play only in your own mind.  They shouldn't be expressed.  You've already lost if you are expressing them.  It is really a simple concept and our intrepid OP doesn't have any idea that even if there was a possibility of moving forward, he put a knife in the stomach of the relationship.

It is a simple concept really.

For those of you who don't understand (and there will be some naysayers) it is the concept that most RW expect.  That a man will drive the relationship. 

[die_cast]

jmana is clearly hearing an "inner voice"

Sure he does! All those money he spent on her rustle in his head: "You invested too much already... schhh... schhh...  Jump above your head, but marry her!" 

[CanadaMan]

Perhaps the Jama thread in this post (Women with Children) should be spun off and joined with his "Done!" post?

The thread seems to have hijacked the original post and what more appropriate place to continue the discussion than in Jmana's "Done!"?

[Muzh]

That is not what TomT said.  Pretty clear that you are a clueless individual which is highlighted by your constant and continuing harassment of Jmana in this thread.You made your view known-- do you really think there is any point in repeating it-- and repeating it-- and repeating it?
If you actually bothered to read the thread you would see the guy has taken on board some of the advice and suggestions from those that offered it --and some progress has been made.--so good on everyone that has tried to help here.

Actually Jay, it is more fun seeing you being put on a leash.
 
Now, are you suggesting that people say something only once and then STFU or just to those you don't like?