Tonight - PBS Scathing Report on Putin

[Gator]

PBS Frontline tonight will tell the story of Putin from his beginnings in St. Petersburg. 

It supposedly will detail his corrupt ways starting with a food shortage in St. Petersburg.  It mentions his possible involvement in the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings to justify a second Chechen war where his brutal strategy lifted his popularity (similar to Ukraine?).

I look forward to reading the reaction of Putin supporters. 

[Faux Pas]

PBS Frontline tonight will tell the story of Putin from his beginnings in St. Petersburg. 

It supposedly will detail his corrupt ways starting with a food shortage in St. Petersburg.  It mentions his possible involvement in the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings to justify a second Chechen war where his brutal strategy lifted his popularity (similar to Ukraine?).

I look forward to reading the reaction of Putin supporters.

As in Doll and Belvis?

[The Natural]

I look forward to reading the reaction of Putin supporters.

It's a Nice feeling to have something to look forward to, indeed. I look forward to watching "Sopranos" With my wife tonight 

[BillyB]

I look forward to reading the reaction of Putin supporters.

Many have already have it in their minds Putin is a winner. If the PBS show somehow gets broadcasted to the general public in Russia, I suspect many Russians will view the show as propaganda or someone's conspiracy theory.

[Gator]

It's a Nice feeling to have something to look forward to, indeed. I look forward to watching "Sopranos" With my wife tonight 

Tony Soprano is a pussy cat compared to Putin.  Also, melodrama vs. reality.   And I have watched every episode of Sopranos already - great series - enjoy!

[Gator]

As in Doll and Belvis?

They won't watch it.  And if they did, denial, denial, denial.  I was thinking more about my stepson.  However, the Ruskies are busy this evening with Old New Year - no time for TV.

[Faux Pas]

Tony Soprano is a pussy cat compared to Putin.  Also, melodrama vs. reality.   And I have watched every episode of Sopranos already - great series - enjoy!

That's because Vlad is higher up the chain than Tony in the Costa Nostra

[lordtiberius]

I suspect many Russians will view the show as propaganda or someone's conspiracy theory.

facts are stubborn things

[The Natural]

Tony Soprano is a pussy cat compared to Putin.  Also, melodrama vs. reality.   And I have watched every episode of Sopranos already - great series - enjoy!

Great series, yes. I love good series. My Brother and I, as well as his wife likes "Mad Men". Didn't even try it for my wife though as I know she don't like too much dialogue and no physical action . But I just knew she'd like the blu-ray Box set of "Sopranos" which I have seen a few years ago... I was right 
We also like "Boardwalk Empire", "Game of Thrones" and "Vikings", while "The Newsroom" and "House of Cards" is just for me in Our home cinema.
I gotta hand it to the Americans to make the best series. I believe we are right now in the golden age of that genre.

As for the comparison between Tony Soprano and Vladimir Putin, I'd limit myself to say Soprano is way more impulsive due to his sociopathy. However, James Gandolfini was, according to little Steven, his exact opposite. He said he was the kindest person he had met and With acting talents way up there With Marlon Brando. I'm very sorry we lost him in 2013 at just 51.

[Gator]

For those who can not watch the Frontline, here are sanitized samples:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/putins-way/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/foreign-affairs-defense/putins-way/the-many-faces-of-vladimir-putin/

I say sanitized because the lead states the following about the documentary, "An investigation of Vladimir Putin. Included: the claims of criminality and corruption that have accented his reign as Russia's ruler."



PBS is an abbreviation for Public Broadcasting Service, America's equivalent of BBC.  Funded little by paid commercials, PBS depends upon donations and grants.  Recently Congress may have cut its government funding.   

The Putin's Way documentary should be available in a week here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

[lordtiberius]

Great series, yes. I love good series. My Brother and I, as well as his wife likes "Mad Men". Didn't even try it for my wife though as I know she don't like too much dialogue and no physical action . But I just knew she'd like the blu-ray Box set of "Sopranos" which I have seen a few years ago... I was right 
We also like "Boardwalk Empire", "Game of Thrones" and "Vikings", while "The Newsroom" and "House of Cards" is just for me in Our home cinema.
I gotta hand it to the Americans to make the best series. I believe we are right now in the golden age of that genre.

As for the comparison between Tony Soprano and Vladimir Putin, I'd limit myself to say Soprano is way more impulsive due to his sociopathy. However, James Gandolfini was, according to little Steven, his exact opposite. He said he was the kindest person he had met and With acting talents way up there With Marlon Brando. I'm very sorry we lost him in 2013 at just 51.

Agree with most of this.  I didn't like Newsroom.  I gave chance after Chance.  Try the Wire and Breaking Bad.

[Doll]

PBS Frontline tonight will tell the story of Putin from his beginnings in St. Petersburg. 

It supposedly will detail his corrupt ways starting with a food shortage in St. Petersburg.  It mentions his possible involvement in the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings to justify a second Chechen war where his brutal strategy lifted his popularity (similar to Ukraine?).

I look forward to reading the reaction of Putin supporters.

Link?
I will try to watch

[Muzh]

Link?
I will try to watch

I don't think you are going to like it, unless you are into Tsars and that sort of thing.


Basically, nothing new.


What is new is such a scathing report on a world leader by a major power. Call it whatever you want, the major players on this documentary are the Russians themselves. Two investigators that are still alive and still living in Russia. Maybe because the Russian propaganda machine has done its job.


I loved the Putler's spokesperson. You can tell he is lying through his teeth. At one point he said something very true: "Sometimes believing in propaganda can be very dangerous."

[ML]

A very interesting presentation.

I had known about some of it; but was still shocked at how early in his career (starting way back in SPb) that Putin began to amass huge wealth.

And, I was reminded again how ordinary Russians totally accept a corrupt system because it is the only type of Russia they have ever known . . . no matter whom the leader is at a given point in time.

Virtually beyond comprehension how much of the natural wealth of Russia has been stolen from its citizens by Putin and his associates.

And yet, the citizens adore and idolize Putin.
Irrefutable proof of some genetic brain problems.

And to think that Putin gained his first real and total power by killing Russian citizens in the apartment house bombings.  From killing fellow Russian citizens . . . Putin became a hero to remaining Russian citizens.

Dzerzhinsky finally killed himself when it began to sink in to him the horror he had wrought on his fellow countrymen.

[AC]

Virtually beyond comprehension how much of the natural wealth of Russia has been stolen from its citizens by Putin and his associates.

And yet, the citizens adore and idolize Putin.
Irrefutable proof of some genetic brain problems.

How do you really feel?

 

[Faux Pas]

A very interesting presentation.

I had known about some of it; but was still shocked at how early in his career (starting way back in SPb) that Putin began to amass huge wealth.

And, I was reminded again how ordinary Russians totally accept a corrupt system because it is the only type of Russia they have ever known . . . no matter whom the leader is at a given point in time.

Virtually beyond comprehension how much of the natural wealth of Russia has been stolen from its citizens by Putin and his associates.

And yet, the citizens adore and idolize Putin.
Irrefutable proof of some genetic brain problems.

And to think that Putin gained his first real and total power by killing Russian citizens in the apartment house bombings.  From killing fellow Russian citizens . . . Putin became a hero to remaining Russian citizens.

Dzerzhinsky finally killed himself when it began to sink in to him the horror he had wrought on his fellow countrymen.

You don't have near the understanding of Russia or Russians that you think you have. The old adage comes to mind "Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"

[AC]

You don't have near the understanding of Russia or Russians that you think you have. The old adage comes to mind "Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"

I've been trying to better understand Russians and their POV.  Crimea as one example has sunk in as far as they have historical ties to that property going way back.  It wasn't legal but it's done and I personally think Ukraine is better off without it.

Could you give an explanation of your opinions about the Russian POV?

[Gator]

Basically, nothing new.

I too knew of the dark side of Putin  but had not seen it assembled in one film, the sum of which is absolutely astonishing.  Specifically, I appreciated the following in the film:

1.   I did not know the depth of the food shortage swindle in Putin's early years in St. Petersburg.  What was the missing amount?  $120 million for just one investigation.   And his corruption continued to the point where his personal wealth is now $40 billion. 

2.  The film presented interviews with the few remaining  investigators of Putin's corruption (and whatever one would call apartment bombings as such is mass murder, not corruption).   Why are they still alive when so many other investigators were killed? 

3.  The interview with  Khodorkovsky was enlightening, with Mikhail admitting to being deceived in believing Putin was a modern leader who wanted to help his people rather than a tyrannical Czar.

[Gator]

You don't have near the understanding of Russia or Russians that you think you have. The old adage comes to mind "Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"

Change that to:  Better to remain silent with the truth than upset the evil bear and be stripped of your wealth, your freedom and even your life.

[fathertime]

I've been trying to better understand Russians and their POV.  Crimea as one example has sunk in as far as they have historical ties to that property going way back.  It wasn't legal but it's done and I personally think Ukraine is better off without it.

+255
Fathertime!

[Gator]

And yet, the citizens adore and idolize Putin.

Why not?   

In Putin's first Presidential election, Russians thought him a strong leader who killed Chechens (not knowing that Putin had murdered hundreds  of Russians as a subterfuge to create a wave of terror in Russia, thereby justifying  the war against Chechens that made Putin seem strong).   This parallels the need to "protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine."   

In the next two elections the Russians had seen an increase in their income, not realizing the increase derived from nothing that Putin had done, and not realizing the increase would have been much greater (and the future much brighter) if Putin and his small circle of friends had not stolen much of it for themselves.

Irrefutable proof of some genetic brain problems.

Or a hugely successful propaganda campaign assisted by silencing of critics, destruction of evidence, etc. 

You and I have always lived in an open society.  So it is difficult to judge what we would have done in a similar situation.  Besides, their man Putin said it was "delirious nonsense."

And to think that Putin gained his first real and total power by killing Russian citizens in the apartment house bombings. 

Connecting the dots takes it straight to Putin.  A huge dot was catching the FSB red handed in planting military explosives in  the  Ryazan apartment.   The investigation into the bombings was pitifully small and undoubtedly fettered at every turn.  In contrast, in America various groups have spent perhaps 100X the effort to investigate where Obama was born. 

[lordtiberius]

There are victims of the Kursk disaster that adore him.  I am with ML on this one.

[Gator]

There are victims of the Kursk disaster that adore him.  I am with ML on this one.

I agree that something is wrong.  However, I don't believe the average Russians are hardwired by their DNA to behave this way.      I believe it is the environment, not genetics. 

[JayH]

The basis of the docu  is discussed here--reuters link has much more.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18729.0


http://www.reuters.com/investigates/section/comrade-capitalism/

[Muzh]

1.   I did not know the depth of the food shortage swindle in Putin's early years in St. Petersburg.  What was the missing amount?  $120 million for just one investigation.   And his corruption continued to the point where his personal wealth is now $40 billion. 

Ahem. That number is 4 years old. With all the "interest" accrued by now it must be at least twice that much.

2.  The film presented interviews with the few remaining  investigators of Putin's corruption (and whatever one would call apartment bombings as such is mass murder, not corruption).   Why are they still alive when so many other investigators were killed? 

Right. You'd think they be deep-sixed by now.

3.  The interview with  Khodorkovsky was enlightening, with Mikhail admitting to being deceived in believing Putin was a modern leader who wanted to help his people rather than a tyrannical Czar.

When they showed him walking down some aisles to a resounding applause I can imagine what was on his mind every time he looked one way and then the other. Maybe something like: What an idiot. (Turn head the other way) Heh, moron. (Turn head again and points to someone) Dickhead, if you only knew I stole everything from you, including your underwear. Heh heh heh