How important is it for her to Speak English

[BC]

I would be more than happy to give it a rest.

Ken's question was worded "people" 

If my position is so wrong how come more people voted for it in the poll than your postion.

*chuckling*.. did someone mention contradictory statements upthread?

Back to square one.

[KenC]

1- KenC, how can you so easily discount Turbo's examples?

Very easily.  I rattled off 10 or eleven posters here (off the top of my head) and he could only name one (Clyde) and as I said earlier, Clyde's marriage is still rather fresh and I do believe his wife had some basic English skills when she arrived.  So even he is not a good example.  That, my friend, is over whelming evidence, don't you think?  I have participated on forums for a long time now, and I can think of only one other couple that made it long term when they didn't share a common language.  Most end up like you and Larisa and don't make it through the 90 days.  On the other hand, I have come to know many couples with good strong marriages and in every case except the one mentioned, they shared a language.  Is it possible to be successful without a common language?  I guess it is, but it is a long shot at best.  Turbo continues to try to defy the odds, that's why he is still alone after 10 years searching.

2- If a guy succeeds quickly and easily, that does NOT necessarily
  indicate a wiser course of action

.
Maybe not, but it does seem to indicate that he has the good instincts to know a good thing when he sees it.

3- If a guy marries his high school sweetheart, does that make him
more knowledgeable about pursuing and finding the ideal woman,
than a guy who finds his ideal mate after his failed first marriage, at
age 43?

I guess my answer would be the same as above for the first guy.  I couldn't say too much about the second guy (too little information).

4- My one course of action had very little to do with separation
due to health problems

.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

5- Be sure to check her teeth, her spleen, her liver, and spinal
column.

If one takes the time to get to know their spouse prior to marriage, their health will be common knowledge.  Bad dentistry in the fsu is a given with all the discussions about it here.

6- If you love her, how much are you willing to spend on her
health problems?

There are many degrees of "love."  Many throw about the word here very casually.  Sometimes it is almost like a teenagers "puppy love" but many times it is lust or just infatuation.  Not to say that true love doesn't start out that way.  But in my mind to be truly in love takes time for the couple to grow together and this process takes a hell of a lot longer than 90 days.  I am lucky because I have found true love with Lena.  With all that in consideration, my answer to your question in regard to Lena is "everything I own and everything I could steal."
KenC

[jb]

If my position is so wrong how come more people voted for it in the poll than your postion.

I place zero credibility in your very badly flawed poll.  I suspect all the married guys who know WTF they are talking about answered the poll as I did.  The unmarried still looking guys, probably gave themselves some little leeway (19 of them), the six absolute bottom feeders, desperate to find any woman who will marry them, voted that being able to talk to your wife was not an important issue.

This is just another example of you planting your flag on very shaky ground and then trying to defend it to the bitter end.  There is just no evidence to support your claims. 

[PeeWee]

As I continue to follow this thread I keep thinking that between the two, man and woman, that it is the woman whom is the more communicative. They love to communicate. A woman seems most happy when she is working her mouth. Why would she contemplate beginning a relationship with a man knowing that she would not be able to do what it is that she loves best, to communicate with him?

With that said I'd think that a relationship could begin without the two having a common langauage but as a part of the development of that relationship so should the language evolve. Evolve to a point where there are some very solid exchanges of thoughts and ideas before the two enter into a marriage. I keep reading about how long it takes a foreign woman to figure out the systems of her new country. Add that to having to deal with not being able to communicate with her one rock, her new husband, how stressful can that be? A new marriage does not need more stress, it needs less stress. I keep saying why make something more difficult than it already is?

If you must have the non communcator in  your life then at least plan on taking more time than you would could she communicate with you. A woman who does not speak your language is not a candidate for a One Week Wonder. Maybe better suited for a One Year Wonder or beyond.

Peewee

[jb]

Peewee,

Occam's Razor applies to this.

[KenC]

jb,
Or one can say "Keep it simple stupid."  The more you complicate, this already complicated process, the more likely you are to fail.
KenC

[jb]

I think, "Keep It Simple Stupid", is a derivative of Occam's Razor.  It's been awhile since I took a course in logic, but I do remember some of it.

[KenC]

It is jb, I'll save you the trouble of looking it up.
KenC

[PeeWee]

"Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating (or "shaving off", like a razor shaves off unneccessary hair) those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory."

I suspect that I was indeed William of Ockham in a former life. You access your objective, calculate your downtime, minimize your moves, predict your ETA, get in, get out, and that is it. I learned nothing during my six years in the military, except this. Oh...and the basics, such as "keep your head down and don't volunteer for nothin'"

No nonsense, no pussy-footing, no beating around the bush...Sh.t and git mentality. If one can accomplish in less time and for less money that which others labor at then you got your Occam Razor honed down to a lean mean killing machine.

Peewee

[BC]

Yeah PeeWee..

I had to wiki that one too.

[wiz]

As I continue to follow this thread I keep thinking that between the two, man and woman, that it is the woman whom is the more communicative. They love to communicate. A woman seems most happy when she is working her mouth. Why would she contemplate beginning a relationship with a man knowing that she would not be able to do what it is that she loves best, to communicate with him?

For this one I can give you many reasons why a woman will contemplate a marriage and the obvious one is FINANCIAL and escaping from a difficult life style!

Peewee
With that said I'd think that a relationship could begin without the two having a common language but as a part of the development of that relationship so should the language evolve.

How long time you need to learn a new language, by going to private lessons and studying?
I would say minimum 6 months to reach a conversational level.

So it goes without saying and forget the expense...... Can you wait for so long time to be able just to have a face to face elementary conversation with the woman you took a fancy?

Sorry I don't have the time or the inclination to wait for so long. When there is so much choice of women speaking minimum elementary English why choose one that can't speak a word?

Ah....I hear.....You fallen in love by meeting her? That is bull and I go with KenC comments:

KenC
There are many degrees of "love."  Many throw about the word here very casually.  Sometimes it is almost like a teenagers "puppy love" but many times it is lust or just infatuation.  Not to say that true love doesn't start out that way.  .

How do you fall in love with a woman?

It starts with your eyes!

I said elsewhere that men are visual creatures and nobody can change that fact.

When you meet a woman for first time there is nothing more there than fancy or lust when you set eyes on her!

Then it goes to your mouth!

Then she opens her mouth and talk.......and you start getting to know each other.......but if she can't speak a word....you have the terp.....HA HA HA

Then finally after time it goes to your heart

KenC
in my mind to be truly in love takes time for the couple to grow together and this process takes a hell of a lot longer than 90 days

Totally Agree KenC

Let's hope that T/G and P/G will give up..........somehow I don't think so!

[PeeWee]

Yeah PeeWee..

I had to wiki that one too.

I'd not heard of Occam but I have known of the KISS principle for a long time, hence the quotes surrounding the text.

No matter what term is used to describe the principle the idea is the same.

Peewee

[jb]

I did go back look it up, just so we don't get confused; Occam's Razor is stated as:

One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.  The simplest explaination is probably the correct one.

Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is also called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon, the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.

I think I studied this in my 2nd year at Stanford.

[BC]

jb,

As it relates to goings on around here would 'back to basics' fit in?

[Bruno]

It makes me think there should be an addition to the Commandments..."Never propose marriage to a woman that you cannot communicate one-on-one with."

Whadda ya think?

In Belgium, a marriage with foreign can be cancelled by the ministry of justice is the relationship meet two or more of the following criteria :

1- parties do not understand each other, or can communicate only in a poor manner with each other, of need the use of a translator
2- parties have never met each other before the marriage procedure
3- one of the parties life with someone else who is not family
4- parties do not know each other's name or nationality
5- parties do not know where the other work
6- manifest divergent declarations on the circumstances of the meeting
7- a sum money is promised for contracting the marriage
8- exercising prostitution by one of both
9- the use of a between personn
10- a large age difference

In bold are criteria that some people here will meet... don't forget that 2 or more can lead to the cancel of marriage. The number 9 refert to arranged marriage by family and/or marriage agency... So, be happy with you IMBRA... a lot of people on RWD will not be able to marry a foreign woman if they was Belgium citizen.

[jb]

Bruno,

These are some very wise items of consideration.  Perhaps there are some things in your post that should modify, and or amplify, our *Commandments*.  I'm always open to the addition of new wisdom.

I am personally aware of cases where K-1 visas were denied because of items # 4,5,6,7,and 8 were not kosher.  So it seems the interview requirement for a K-1 are not that much different from what the Belgium Immigration policy demands.

[Turboguy]

I place zero credibility in your very badly flawed poll.  I suspect all the married guys who know WTF they are talking about answered the poll as I did. 

So you are basically saying anyone who did not answer to poll with a vote of 9-10 is a stupid, idiot who doesn't know didly about what they are talking about.

Hey guys, you gonna let jb talk to you that way?

[Turboguy]

How long time you need to learn a new language, by going to private lessons and studying?
I would say minimum 6 months to reach a conversational level.  So it goes without saying and forget the expense...... Can you wait for so long time to be able just to have a face to face elementary conversation with the woman you took a fancy?

Considering it takes 6 months to a year to get a K-1 visa that does not seem to present much of a problem to me
Let's hope that T/G and P/G will give up..........somehow I don't think so!

Why should we give up.  We are right!

By the way since KenC seems to keep accusing me of contradicting myself and totally losses me where he sees it.  If he wants to fault someone for that why not compare your post of two days ago which said
No more comments about this subject from me.
with the pages that follow.

[jb]

Hey guys, you gonna let jb talk to you that way?

Why do you need to gather support for your wild notions?  There were a total of 6 men,, ONLY 6 ~!,(even on a sliding scale that's not a lot) who agreed that perhaps being able to talk to their woman was unimportant.  And I'll bet after reading and re-reading this thread a few of them might just change their vote.

Frankly, I think your ship has sunk on this one.

[BC]

So you are basically saying anyone who did not answer to poll with a vote of 9-10 is a stupid, idiot who doesn't know didly about what they are talking about.

Hey guys, you gonna let jb talk to you that way?

We already went through this back on page 11..

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2230.msg45229#msg45229

[KenC]

By the way since KenC seems to keep accusing me of contradicting myself and totally losses me where he sees it.  If he wants to fault someone for that why not compare your post of two days ago which said
No more comments about this subject from me.
with the pages that follow.

Um, Turbo,
You better up your dosage of Ginko Baloba because I never said that. What I said was "I rest my case" in reference to your feeble attempt to name members here that have successful marriages with women that couldn't speak a common language with their husbands.
KenC

[Turboguy]

*chuckling*.. did someone mention contradictory statements upthread?

Back to square one.

Sorry you were right it was BC,

Bye the way when I posted Wiz's total contradicition I am happy that he did not stop posting here.  Hi is fun to argue with too.

[Turboguy]

We already went through this back on page 11..

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2230.msg45229#msg45229

Not the same thing BC.  That post we talked about him saying I am an idiot. Now he is saying everyone who didn't vote for 9-10 is in inexperienced idiot. 

[BC]

Turbo,

Early on in this thread I sorta remember a few times where even you agreed the poll was flawed.

Anyone vaguely familiar with polls would classify this one as a 'my way or highway' type.

[jb]

That post we talked about him saying I am an idiot.

And you will note, no one disagreed with that idea.