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Author Topic: The Chicken in Kiev  (Read 7147 times)

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Offline GQBlues

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #150 on: June 06, 2019, 05:45:01 PM »
GQ, some people are just naturally gifted socially from their genes. Has nothing to do with being able to speak the language as a native. Some people instinctively know what to say and when to say it and come over better in a non-verbal way. Possibly in parts of the US I may do better than in the UK. A Raneta had found the UK society has a certain thing about being social in a certain type of way, so it's not just me that is saying it.

TC-

Your Mum's a wonderful woman! She had you, didn't she? She plays no part in where you are today. You are one out of millions, if not billions, who found your way in her womb to be here today.

Celebrate that and quit the blame game. Get out there and grab your share of the world. TC, I lived in Orange Cove, CA when I ran away from home at 15-16. I can honestly say it is more than likely far more desolate compared to where you are today (go ahead, Google-Earth it, lol). No home. Yet I had no problem feeling I more than belong and got much more than my share of whatever it was I deemed important at the time, even with women at my age. Gifted, I am not nor will I ever claim to be. I just 'live'. You should, too.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 06:01:50 PM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Online SteveInBoston

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #151 on: June 06, 2019, 06:44:51 PM »
A few steps forward...and one step back.  TC, you should try dancing.  Socially, as suggested.

Offline pitbull

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #152 on: June 07, 2019, 05:31:29 AM »
My 2 cents as I can no longer fight the urge to help :D 


Firstly, doesn’t matter if you can be diagnosed as aspie or not, you have enough autistic traits where social interactions/relationships are concerned. I wouldn’t bother with therapy as you either need to be officially diagnosed or be paying for it and you don’t really have budget for it.


Secondly I have Asperger and done fairly well for myself, I read a lot, watched people interact a lot and basically done a lot of work on myself which improved my life tremendously. (I also have a fairly sociable partner who helps me a lot but that’s not relevant for you).


I would say that politics might not be ideal as by definition there could be disagreements etc and at your way of how you interact with people you will severely p@@@ss people off...


Pick up dancing, anything social, salsa, tango, ceroc, west coast swing etc. Anything that does not require having a set partner.


1. Social dancing has more women than men and therefore men are precious. You could be as awkward as you like they will still be friendly to you.
2. You can spend as much or as little money as you please. Starting from Ł8 for a weekly class, that will be enough to take you out once a week and create wide social circle.
3.You can talk as much as you please as well. In fact you can say as little as few hellos in the whole evening and still have fantastic time. You do not have to try, women will talk to you, if you feel connection you can talk, if not you don’t really have to and you will not be considered rude.


4. Every single dancing man I know had dates,,,it’s very easy to become friends due to nature of the hobby, it just opens people up very quickly...


5. It’s damn enjoyable, you just need to overcome unevitable shyness at the start but one of your obvious virtues is you are persistent so should be no problems there...


Just give it a try!




In no time you will have a wide social circle and most of them will be women! (As again by nature of the hobby you will know a lot of women as you
‘D be dancing with them...) if you pick up ceroc there is a culture of women asking men to dance and overall friendliness...you literally need to sit on your bum looking clean and they will be asking you to dance...your age will also be a big plus, most people dancing ceroc in the uk are around that age.

Ranetka,

Great advice but not for trench. He will come up with some verbose wacky explanation of why he can’t “get on” with dancing which lacks logic but shows his mental rigidity. Happened with many great suggestions he already received here. Even if he shows up he is obviously so weird up close that he will be left out as a dance partner very soon. He is too far gone unfortunately, not much can be changed at his age. Doesn’t even have money to buy a wife like our other resident aspie or drive to earn even minimum amount needed to bring a foreign spouse.
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Online krimster2

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #153 on: June 07, 2019, 07:05:10 AM »
PitBully,
I am curious, how in your twisted view of the world, how me, with my Russian wife, is different from your husband with his Russian wife...
does your husband buy your love?
is this how you see the world because IT IS your world?

I don't think you really know enough about Asperger's to criticize it
I actually do
what Ranetka said is quite correct
"watched people interact a lot and basically done a lot of work on myself which improved my life tremendously"
many Aspies do this and go on to have very successful relationships, I am one of them and my friend Bill Gross is another








« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 07:17:47 AM by AnonMod »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Online Gator

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #154 on: June 07, 2019, 07:20:09 AM »
Ranetka,

Great advice but not for trench. He will come up with some verbose wacky explanation of why he can’t “get on” with dancing which lacks logic but shows his mental rigidity. Happened with many great suggestions he already received here. Even if he shows up he is obviously so weird up close that he will be left out as a dance partner very soon. He is too far gone unfortunately, not much can be changed at his age. Doesn’t even have money to buy a wife like our other resident aspie or drive to earn even minimum amount needed to bring a foreign spouse.


I see the years have mellowed you, instilling a spirit of encouraging others.     

 

Offline pitbull

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #155 on: June 07, 2019, 07:36:41 AM »

I see the years have mellowed you, instilling a spirit of encouraging others.

Years should have taught you what a «lost cause» is and how to recognize an obvious case. ;)
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Online Maxx2

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #156 on: June 07, 2019, 08:35:21 AM »



Sad that I am the only normal person here.  :cluebat:

Online Gator

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #157 on: June 07, 2019, 08:55:10 AM »

Years should have taught you what a «lost cause» is and how to recognize an obvious case. ;)

Obviously not, based on still being married to a RW.   ;D

Good to see you here again.  Hope all is well.  It soon will be time for you to adorn your Bernie for Prez paraphernalia, unless you switch allegiance given the many candidates.   

Offline pitbull

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #158 on: June 07, 2019, 10:43:37 AM »
Obviously not, based on still being married to a RW.   ;D

Good to see you here again.  Hope all is well.  It soon will be time for you to adorn your Bernie for Prez paraphernalia, unless you switch allegiance given the many candidates.   

All is well thank you Gator. Hope all is well with you and yours!

I think Mayor Pete and Elizabeth Warren are my current favorites :) do you still love Trump?
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Offline Ranetka

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #159 on: June 07, 2019, 11:00:17 AM »
Ranetka,

Great advice but not for trench. He will come up with some verbose wacky explanation of why he can’t “get on” with dancing which lacks logic but shows his mental rigidity. Happened with many great suggestions he already received here. Even if he shows up he is obviously so weird up close that he will be left out as a dance partner very soon. He is too far gone unfortunately, not much can be changed at his age. Doesn’t even have money to buy a wife like our other resident aspie or drive to earn even minimum amount needed to bring a foreign spouse.


Let’s wait and see, it would be a shame if he decided not to try. Having said that, Trenchcoat’s comment that dancing women are too ‘awkward ‘ (presumably too awkward for him?) made me chuckle a bit,
There are shortcuts to happiness and dancing is one of them.

I do resent the fact that most people never question or think for themselves. I don't want to be normal. I just want to find some other people that are odd in the same ways that I am. OP.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #160 on: June 07, 2019, 11:03:59 AM »
Dancing...sure, it can help.

But if TC wants to 'learn' how to expand his social skills, I would suggest engaging in 'team sports'. I don't believe there's no better way to learn how to mesh, strategize, relate common attitudes and thinking, and more especially - develop self esteem and confidence - than engaging/participate in team sports.

That will eventually branch out to acquiring the ability to comfortably engage towards the rest of social awareness, including most notably, in relating to women.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 11:06:12 AM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #161 on: June 07, 2019, 11:28:02 AM »
All is well thank you Gator. Hope all is well with you and yours!

I think Mayor Pete and Elizabeth Warren are my current favorites :) do you still love Trump?

I like Mayor Pete even though I can not explain why.  Warren?  No way!   Based on what I know now, Kamala would be my favorite if, God Forbid, Trump decided not to run and Republicans nominated Dick Cheney.  :o

I never loved Trump.  Impossible man to love.   And his demeanor in office is worse than I feared.  Yet, I believe he is addressing everything  that needs to be improved.  Much on his plate, with not that much time left

Online msmob

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Re: The Chicken in KYIV
« Reply #162 on: June 07, 2019, 01:47:20 PM »

But if TC wants to 'learn' how to expand his social skills, I would suggest engaging in 'team sports'.

Bearing in mind a thread elsewhere - you'll be shocked - but I agree with you ;)


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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #163 on: June 09, 2019, 01:29:41 AM »
Girls in my office are into some kind of mixed sex frisby sport a cross between frisby and soccer.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2019, 10:47:32 AM »
TC-

Your Mum's a wonderful woman! She had you, didn't she? She plays no part in where you are today. You are one out of millions, if not billions, who found your way in her womb to be here today.

Celebrate that and quit the blame game. Get out there and grab your share of the world. TC, I lived in Orange Cove, CA when I ran away from home at 15-16. I can honestly say it is more than likely far more desolate compared to where you are today (go ahead, Google-Earth it, lol). No home. Yet I had no problem feeling I more than belong and got much more than my share of whatever it was I deemed important at the time, even with women at my age. Gifted, I am not nor will I ever claim to be. I just 'live'. You should, too.

It's not a blame game, its just the truth of the situation. Genes exist and what we are passed on determines a lot of our strenths and weaknesses. With social skills someone with a good gene in it can walk into a room and within moments be the talk of the party with making little effort, just being how they are. On looks a guy can be an 8-10 film star looks or similar/near enough and get an easy time in life getting the women as Davo showed us in his video. I'm not saying its an excuse not to try or succeed along the way but some people stand way more chances than others. Some just get lucky.

I'm guessing at some point you got at least reasonably wealthy in the US. The US seems to allow more opportunity for that, in the UK its very difficult indeed to get wealthy, mostly if it happens odds are its more by luck than anything else, either that or down right shady but I wouldn't do that its just not me. 
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Online msmob

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Re: The Chicken in KYIV
« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2019, 11:02:56 AM »
Morere Trench 'excuses'

It's not a blame game, its just the truth of the situation. Genes exist and what we are passed on determines a lot of our strenths and weaknesses. With social skills someone with a good gene in it can walk into a room and within moments be the talk of the party with making little effort, just being how they are. On looks a guy can be an 8-10 film star looks or similar/near enough and get an easy time in life getting the women as Davo showed us in his video. I'm not saying its an excuse not to try or succeed along the way but some people stand way more chances than others. Some just get lucky.

I'm guessing at some point you got at least reasonably wealthy in the US. The US seems to allow more opportunity for that, in the UK its very difficult indeed to get wealthy, mostly if it happens odds are its more by luck than anything else, either that or down right shady but I wouldn't do that its just not me.

Bollox, period ..

If you don't get off your arse - you are unlikely to BE 'lucky'..

You have confirmed your choice to be lazy and to draw a salary


Offline GQBlues

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2019, 04:17:46 PM »
It's not a blame game, its just the truth of the situation. Genes exist and what we are passed on determines a lot of our strenths and weaknesses. With social skills someone with a good gene in it can walk into a room and within moments be the talk of the party with making little effort, just being how they are. On looks a guy can be an 8-10 film star looks or similar/near enough and get an easy time in life getting the women as Davo showed us in his video. I'm not saying its an excuse not to try or succeed along the way but some people stand way more chances than others. Some just get lucky.

I'm guessing at some point you got at least reasonably wealthy in the US. The US seems to allow more opportunity for that, in the UK its very difficult indeed to get wealthy, mostly if it happens odds are its more by luck than anything else, either that or down right shady but I wouldn't do that its just not me.

TC-

1. I do not agree with your 'genes' theory. Not for you, me or anyone...
2. 'Wealth' is both 'subjective' and 'relative'. Don't get caught up in that.

You need to rid your mind of a lot of basura that is becoming more of an obstacle to you. The 'more' you know, the less you understand.

I do not subscribe to your notion that you don't have the 'charisma' to command a given room or venue. I mean, look at this site. The reality is, you are single-handedly keeping this forum afloat. More than half the traffic generated here is because of you, about you, or subjects you raised for discussion.

So there, you actually have the *gift* but was too cluttered  in your mind to actually recognize it.

You're in your 40s, man. Make it happen. You don't want to be in your 50s and still be home alone. Get yourself a nice British cutie..Forget the FSU.
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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #167 on: June 11, 2019, 06:46:38 PM »
TC-

1. I do not agree with your 'genes' theory. Not for you, me or anyone...
2. 'Wealth' is both 'subjective' and 'relative'. Don't get caught up in that.

You need to rid your mind of a lot of basura that is becoming more of an obstacle to you. The 'more' you know, the less you understand.

I do not subscribe to your notion that you don't have the 'charisma' to command a given room or venue. I mean, look at this site. The reality is, you are single-handedly keeping this forum afloat. More than half the traffic generated here is because of you, about you, or subjects you raised for discussion.

So there, you actually have the *gift* but was too cluttered  in your mind to actually recognize it.

You're in your 40s, man. Make it happen. You don't want to be in your 50s and still be home alone. Get yourself a nice British cutie..Forget the FSU.

If it was going to happen for me with a British girl that would have happened years ago. To be in my forties and had nothing substantial from British girls on that front is a joke. There are a couple of times I could have 'settled' for less but it never really grabbed me going for a girl I didn't think the world off. I'm an everyday looking guy, I'm not fat, short, balding, greying, ginger, etc and yet UK girls who seem to often dislike to loathe guys who fall into those categories aren't exactly beating a path to my door. I've done four speed dating events in the UK yet none of those single girls went for me nor apparently most of the other male attendees despite apparently being single.

I can see why you say UK girls as they are close at hand, but it's just too hard a market for me to crack. I fear your prediction of still single into my fifties and thereafter, should I last, may be correct. I need to get over to the FSU for an extended period. I could do that next year. I would really like to do that this year but circumstances suggest it's not likely. So I'm back to the short travel trips to meet the odd woman and of course the odds aren't great with that.
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Re: The Chicken in KYIV
« Reply #168 on: June 11, 2019, 07:51:02 PM »
Morere Trench 'excuses'

Bollox, period ..

If you don't get off your arse - you are unlikely to BE 'lucky'..

You have confirmed your choice to be lazy and to draw a salary

Usually Mobe, money for a business has to come from  somewhere and that involves bringing in a salary to fund that business. Some  businesses have got of the ground with very little. Truth is though most require funding and usually significant amounts of it before you even get to see any return. Many businesses fail because they were underfunded at start or run into cashflow problems, lack of profitability and a wealth of other reasons.

In the UK it's usual to find whatever you get into there is a load of competition whether it's studies or a business. There are so many people in the UK compacted into a small island you can't move for finding someone sniffing up your bum. If someone saw you are being successful in something then many an unimaginative individual will copy and start up in competition to yourself. In many lines of work the extent of competition makes making a venture worthwhile a self defeating task. That is before you get to the gov wishing to tax the pants off you all the way.

Even according to you Mobe, you only got onto a decent thing later on in life. People can spend their lives going from one business venture to the next without breaking through to even a decent income never mind the big time.
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Online msmob

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2019, 10:05:17 PM »
If it was going to happen for me with a British girl that would have happened years ago. To be in my forties and had nothing substantial from British girls on that front is a joke. There are a couple of times I could have 'settled' for less but it never really grabbed me going for a girl I didn't think the world off. I'm an everyday looking guy, I'm not fat, short, balding, greying, ginger, etc and yet UK girls who seem to often dislike to loathe guys who fall into those categories aren't exactly beating a path to my door. I've done four speed dating events in the UK yet none of those single girls went for me nor apparently most of the other male attendees despite apparently being single.

I can see why you say UK girls as they are close at hand, but it's just too hard a market for me to crack. I fear your prediction of still single into my fifties and thereafter, should I last, may be correct. I need to get over to the FSU for an extended period. I could do that next year. I would really like to do that this year but circumstances suggest it's not likely. So I'm back to the short travel trips to meet the odd woman and of course the odds aren't great with that.

Trench,

Once again - you are making 'excuses'

Guys that can pull - pull anywhere ..


It's NOT the British lasses ... it's YOU that's the problem.. 

There is NO way you can bring a lass here as you need to demonstrate you've been earning the minimum - for a year .. What would you tell any lass - why you'll stalling to make the grade  ? 



 

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #170 on: June 12, 2019, 12:25:13 AM »
Trench,

Once again - you are making 'excuses'

Guys that can pull - pull anywhere ..


It's NOT the British lasses ... it's YOU that's the problem.. 

There is NO way you can bring a lass here as you need to demonstrate you've been earning the minimum - for a year .. What would you tell any lass - why you'll stalling to make the grade  ? 



 

It's only six months I have to prove that I'm bringing in the minimum income. I can easily increase my hours till then. Before then there would be getting married and for that getting to know each other better, etc which all takes time, quite easily longer than six months.
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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2019, 06:55:38 AM »
It's only six months I have to prove that I'm bringing in the minimum income. I can easily increase my hours till then. Before then there would be getting married and for that getting to know each other better, etc which all takes time, quite easily longer than six months.


Irrespective of whether or not you regard yourself as someone who could be an entrepreneur, you have said time and time again that you have no intention to increase your current working hours and therefore income; that's either complacency or laziness and it is YOUR choice not to do so.


The excuses about English women are just that, as I've said all along. I am short, bald, a little overweight; our success or failure is what we make of it. At least you seem to be (somewhat) acknowledging in your last post that you cannot pull a British woman, and NOT that you wouldn't choose to be with one.


I have sensed a little more vulnerability and honesty in your recent posts. You get a bashing here, from myself included. But, the less excuses you make and the more receptive you are to constructive criticism - without generalising or preaching that you know better - then you might really start to see some real progress.

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #172 on: June 12, 2019, 07:28:30 AM »
If it was going to happen for me with a British girl that would have happened years ago. To be in my forties and had nothing substantial from British girls on that front is a joke. There are a couple of times I could have 'settled' for less but it never really grabbed me going for a girl I didn't think the world off. I'm an everyday looking guy, I'm not fat, short, balding, greying, ginger, etc and yet UK girls who seem to often dislike to loathe guys who fall into those categories aren't exactly beating a path to my door. I've done four speed dating events in the UK yet none of those single girls went for me nor apparently most of the other male attendees despite apparently being single.

I can see why you say UK girls as they are close at hand, but it's just too hard a market for me to crack. I fear your prediction of still single into my fifties and thereafter, should I last, may be correct. I need to get over to the FSU for an extended period. I could do that next year. I would really like to do that this year but circumstances suggest it's not likely. So I'm back to the short travel trips to meet the odd woman and of course the odds aren't great with that.

Dude you just paint yourself in failure, you bathe and bask in 24/7, don't you? Let me guess, you've been pining for a super hottie all your life and always come up empty? As a result you're left with your empty fantasies. I get it, the heart wants what the heart wants. The only problem with is you haven't got the gonads to reach out and grab it. None of the speed dating ladies went for you? Do you go for them? Did you find one and pursue her?Or two or three? Get off the bench and get your ass in the game friend. Your love life and your success in business will ALWAYS elude you until you get over this fear of rejection and/or failure. Do wtf it takes to accomplish your goals. I have to agree with moobs on this one. You are your own worse enemy. It's not the women British or FSU, it's not "the man" keeping you down. No sir, it's you
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 07:37:40 AM by Faux Pas »

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2019, 12:10:50 PM »
Dude you just paint yourself in failure, you bathe and bask in 24/7, don't you? Let me guess, you've been pining for a super hottie all your life and always come up empty? As a result you're left with your empty fantasies. I get it, the heart wants what the heart wants. The only problem with is you haven't got the gonads to reach out and grab it. None of the speed dating ladies went for you? Do you go for them? Did you find one and pursue her?Or two or three? Get off the bench and get your ass in the game friend. Your love life and your success in business will ALWAYS elude you until you get over this fear of rejection and/or failure. Do wtf it takes to accomplish your goals. I have to agree with moobs on this one. You are your own worse enemy. It's not the women British or FSU, it's not "the man" keeping you down. No sir, it's you

You're probably right Faux Pas, I probably need to push the boat way out more. In truth I guess speed dating is not so much as following the process as set up but pursuing a lady after in the bar if there is one you like, not in an unwanted way though of course as like you ellude to otherwise who knows how strongly a guy feels for the women they put down for. I did indeed tick many women on each of the four occasions I went - following the process, but that is all. Women of course tend not to have to make the effort guys do and that's a pain but I guess its the territory I am in nonetheless. I still think its too tough a market in the UK for many reasons as gone into before and my chances are far better in the FSU with the right girl. I'll just see what if anything I can do on it all.
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: The Chicken in Kiev
« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2019, 12:41:07 PM »
If it was going to happen for me with a British girl that would have happened years ago. To be in my forties and had nothing substantial from British girls on that front is a joke. There are a couple of times I could have 'settled' for less but it never really grabbed me going for a girl I didn't think the world off. I'm an everyday looking guy, I'm not fat, short, balding, greying, ginger, etc and yet UK girls who seem to often dislike to loathe guys who fall into those categories aren't exactly beating a path to my door.....

Brother I won't bat you down with that statement, but dude, you do need a little more grease to get your social wheels in motion.

One of my posse in the past was Brooklyn-born/raised who moved to LA. He's your prototypical second-coming of Adonis. Only guy we know whose opening killer line of 'Hey' melt most women he meets. Next to my bruh, we're like inanimate objects. Insignificant rocks in his royal presence. Where I relied in my improvisional moves, he needs only to wake up in the morning.

But, here's his reality. There were numerous times that convinced us that, with all his good looks, the dude had a relative bad taste in women, man. One day he'd be with lady Barbie we'd all be drooling over, the next time we see him he'd have someone in his arms that you sort of feel apologetic about. Go figure, right?

I asked him one day what's up with that and was really looking for him to 'fess up cause we were just curious, you know. True story. This is what he told me.

"Truth is, I get rejected more times than you guys think I do. Maybe even more so than any of you. Like any hot 'chic' we see  (bird - UK slang), there's always that immediate preconceived idea what I am (they are) supposed to be about. *Just because*. Each of those rejection, believe it or not, sinks my confidence down a notch or two. Enough of it, I become Keanu Reeves i.e. a bumbling idiot!.

So I added, and to his confirmation: "Word. So you open yourself up to what's available to fire your confidence level back up. Ride the positive aspect instead of dwelling upon the negative perception. Nature will eventually take care of itself. Make sense now"

TC, like most things in life, man. You crawl before you walk, walk before you run. You have this backwards. You won't find yourself by looking for it in a woman/mate. Go through this through yourself first.

Relax, start humbly. Make small steps. Chat anyone, anywhere. Don't put pressure in yourself and unblock your mind. Trust me. Nature will take its course and one day you'll surprise even yourself.

jb gave me the very best advice before during my journey. He told me to forget FSU and tear my ticket up. He said the MOB wasn't meant for 'guys like me'.

With you, I will say this - If you find comfort going to FSU, do that. Just don't do it looking for a relationship or marriage. Go and simply immerse yourself with 'just' being with female company/ies. Get that comfort in you so when you get back home, your perception of ease being with a woman will become a bit more and more natural for you. Then you can stay home, meet a nice, cute woman from your society, and maybe even marry one.

Stay away from the lure of the MOB (FSU). The odds are more heavily stacked against the men. Look around even on this very board. Sadly, the percentage population of 'repeat offenders' prevail these days. Do you really wanna be in your 50s or even 60s repeating this silly process all over again? That's a pretty sad state of affairs, IMHO.

At this point, I shall simply resign and just leave this up to you.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 12:48:00 PM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

 

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