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Author Topic: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?  (Read 95757 times)

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Online msmob

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Wazamatter, GQB ?

A 'naughty' Right of Centre UK tabloid publishing stats that suggest a continued fail.. re your suggesting Sweden was 'right' ? 
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Offline GQBlues

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Swoosh. There goes another one.

:devil:
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online msmob

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Sweden, STILL 'doing better' at killing it's citizens, currently .. Expect Brazil and a few other nations, if reporting more honestly, would be 'up there' ..50% higher than the UK, which is nothing to be proud of ..

http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~SWE

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Online msmob

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Ok, rather than be 'toxic' by reporting Sweden's woes, here's an Article about Norway ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/?

..and what would happen, if there's a second spike
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Online BillyB

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Document says China withheld critical info on the virus. No-duh. Also says the virus's genome was decoded in the level 4 virology lab in Wuhan.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/leaked-documents-reveal-china-withheld-crucial-information-about-the-coronavirus-at-the-start-of-the-outbreak/ar-BB14V8h1?ocid=spartanntp
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Online msmob

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What, this is not 'fake news' as it finds your 'agenda', BillyB ?  ;)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 03:04:41 PM by msmob »
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Offline SteveInBoston

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Speaking of non-partisan, I really like these links, Steve. Good job! Especially the one with WIKI where it credited MSNBC's Rachel Maddow's show for the write-up.

And of course, The Atlantic! The publication that endorsed Hillary Clinton, same gal that financed the dossier to start the Russian collusion Then lobbied for Trump's impeachment way back in 2017, then this...
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/

RespectfulInsolence, CrunchBase, scienbasedmediine, scienceblog! WOW! A lot of very notable establishments there, man! A very impressive list indeed. Keep it coming, bud!

I spent just a minutes on google and took the links provided.  If you don't like any of those, there are many more.

Disingenuously, you took the one reference to MSNBC in the wiki article to discredit it.  That was not the source of the "write-up", just one reference to one of the subtopics, that of AAPS politically lobbying against ACA.  The vast majority of the "write-up" is from 49 sources in the references section, which includes articles published by AAPS themselves, Time magazine, NYTimes, Reuters, 60 minutes, American Cancer Society and American Academy of Pediatrics, among others.

Quote
You mean like take ten 10 patients and administer the drug, and take another and administer placebo, right? This is what you're alluding to, and only IF the ten patients administered with placebo all died while the ten HCQ patients lived, then you got your 'studies'. Would you be one of those willing persons being administered placebo to while struck with the virus for the exercise? To see if the other 10 survives and not you? Oh wait, maybe they lie to these folks by saying they're giving them a treatment but not really, right?

Yes.  Compare those who are treated with HCQ in addition to normal means, and those who are treated with just the normal means (antibotics, respirators, etc.)  Treat each group with the same level of health care, with the exception of one group also given HCQ.  That is a scientific study. 

And yes, I would definitely hope that I am given the placebo.   Based on the studies referenced by AAPS, I would have a better chance of recovery, by about 2%.

Quote
You have people alive today that went through the process and would vouch the drug was their turning point! Do those even count with you? Maybe no because you'd say it's anecdotal? Or maybe they're being political plants? LMAO. How many people would it take for you for this to become relevant?  You're looking for guarantee? To quote Donna_Pedro, "buy a toaster1".

There are people dead today after given HCQ.  Your reasoning that HCQ save the people you mention and the studies that showed others given HCQ died, have the same weight of anecdotal evidence.

Quote
BS! You just did the same thing the data you just demonize had done. How the heck can you conclude the US have a 94% survival rate by equating the reported death rate from the total case when these are not only active cases, but many are in serious/critical condition.

You are stuck saying nothing is valid unless a study is conducted and completed, yet leaped frog your own conclusion based on an active and ongoing cases. You haven't even included the asymptomatic cases that no one knows for sure how many.

Exactly.  Mine is not a study, it is not scientific, it is just some simple math I did on the spot.  It has the same level of science and study behind it as the data that AAPS refers to.  You are quick to call my calculations BS.  And yet you claim the other calculations are valid?  Hypocritical, yes?


Quote
Here's the bottom line. You don't buy HCQ is effective because clinical trials are missing, Good! Some people do - I do simply because you have people who survived and stated it was because of the drug, with support from their own physicians or doctors that treated them. Unless those doctors or their physicians attest it wasn't so, then I believe them.

History is full of quick to claim benefits of some drug or another.  Some work, some don't and many have consequences discovered after the fact.  I don't buy that HCQ is effective because even it's own data shows it helps some and kills others.  Would those deaths have occurred without HCQ?  No idea.  Would those who recovered have recovered without HCQ?  No idea.  I am saying that AAPS are misleading everyone by trying to claim that HCQ helps patients recover from covid, but the data from the referenced studies make no such conclusion.


Quote
You believe continued lockdowns are great! Good. I don't. People like you can stay home, others can go. Conitnued lockdowns are idiotic and far deadlier than this virus will ever be.

I believe the current lockdown is the lesser of 2 bad situations.  The alternative is let ppl run amok with a disease that is proven to be an exponential factor more contagious than the flu, and more than ten times deadlier.   I think the best solution is track, trace and isolate, but the US is still not equipped for that. 



Offline GQBlues

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I spent just a minutes on google and took the links provided.  If you don't like any of those, there are many more.

Disingenuously, you took the one reference to MSNBC in the wiki article to discredit it.  That was not the source of the "write-up", just one reference to one of the subtopics, that of AAPS politically lobbying against ACA.  The vast majority of the "write-up" is from 49 sources in the references section, which includes articles published by AAPS themselves, Time magazine, NYTimes, Reuters, 60 minutes, American Cancer Society and American Academy of Pediatrics, among others.

No I didn't. I cited there was also The Atlantic, and explained the disdain. The rest of the links you gave will take you to literally one person. a doctor. A doctor who happens to demonize alternative medicine, rightly or wrongly, such as chiropratic, homeophatic, acupuncture, etc..any clinical medical practive other than 'scientific' he discredits. He railed against one of the lead doctor at AAPS for her belief in alternative medicine.

Quote
Yes.  Compare those who are treated with HCQ in addition to normal means, and those who are treated with just the normal means (antibotics, respirators, etc.)  Treat each group with the same level of health care, with the exception of one group also given HCQ.  That is a scientific study. 

And yes, I would definitely hope that I am given the placebo.   Based on the studies referenced by AAPS, I would have a better chance of recovery, by about 2%.

There are people dead today after given HCQ.  Your reasoning that HCQ save the people you mention and the studies that showed others given HCQ died, have the same weight of anecdotal evidence.

What I said before was, there are those who actually went through the experience and fully credited the use of the medicine to be what worked for them. To me, there's not a better validation than people who actually got through this than some laboratory/clinical inconclusive trials saying otherwise.

Moreover, HCQ is an immune reaction suppressant. It is widely known that part of the lethality of COVID, or any viral infection, is the vicious reaction of our immune system that destroys not only the invading infection but also the 'healthy cells'. Looking at it from that standpoint suggest a keener logic based on what we know what coronavirus does.

Quote
Exactly.  Mine is not a study, it is not scientific, it is just some simple math I did on the spot.  It has the same level of science and study behind it as the data that AAPS refers to.  You are quick to call my calculations BS.  And yet you claim the other calculations are valid?  Hypocritical, yes?

Vis-a-Vis.

Quote
History is full of quick to claim benefits of some drug or another.  Some work, some don't and many have consequences discovered after the fact.  I don't buy that HCQ is effective because even it's own data shows it helps some and kills others.  Would those deaths have occurred without HCQ?  No idea.  Would those who recovered have recovered without HCQ?  No idea.  I am saying that AAPS are misleading everyone by trying to claim that HCQ helps patients recover from covid, but the data from the referenced studies make no such conclusion.

If you're not saying one way or the other, then not really sure what you're really saying, or why even engage in this discussion?

Quote
I believe the current lockdown is the lesser of 2 bad situations.  The alternative is let ppl run amok with a disease that is proven to be an exponential factor more contagious than the flu, and more than ten times deadlier.   I think the best solution is track, trace and isolate, but the US is still not equipped for that.

Same as above. Like I said you don't believe in easing the lockdown, more power to you, but that doesn't mean people that believe differently, and are doing it, shouldn't. It is widely declared, those who doesn't like the idea of easing the lockdown, or those considered 'vulnerable to the virus', should simply shelter at home.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 01:06:42 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline fathertime

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What, this is not 'fkae news' as it finds your 'agenda', BillyB ?  ;)
oh come on now mobers...you know how it works, the media is only fake and corrupt when it reports inconvenient to agenda items!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Online msmob

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OMG.

I note that GQB is STILL pushing the 'benefits' of HCQ without a CLUE .. ((

To top it all, he's STILL suggesting that he'll be selfish and 'get on with life', despite others - sensibly - avoiding giving the virus the chance to spread .. and it KILING people.. What will it take to convince him ? 



We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline GQBlues

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OMG.

I note that GQB is STILL pushing the 'benefits' of HCQ without a CLUE .. ((

To top it all, he's STILL suggesting that he'll be selfish and 'get on with life', despite others - sensibly - avoiding giving the virus the chance to spread .. and it KILING people.. What will it take to convince him ?

Do you see dead people, too or you have reading comprehension issue? Maybe both?

Maybe the result of being put in the doghouse one too many times? :devil:

Yup, it's true ...

I got told off for not congratulating SC on this (apparently) important day in the calendar..

For those of you who are 'behind' Europe in time, you can surprise your blonde wife / partner / gf and not be in 'the doghouse' ;)

Yah poor sap.:(
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 04:33:32 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online msmob

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Do you see dead people, too or you have reading comprehension issue? Maybe both?

More tosh .. I'm just trying to keep ma Ma safe from selfish Tw*ts like you ..

Within 50m of us ( small, rural village) .. we've had three neighbours that had 'it'

HCQ is indeed a drug that helps specific auto-immune issues .. it has NOT helped those with COVID-19 and your description of how it 'might' stop a dramatic reaction of an infected persons auto-immune system was NONSENSE ... This is not Lupus..



We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Online msmob

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

No sh*t, 'Sherlock'..

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


Mind you, the UK and it's "We'll try the 'herd immunity route', ooops.. no we won't, then, ' we'll open up FAR too early" approach is woking out, 'so well' ...


 
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Offline GQBlues

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More tosh .. I'm just trying to keep ma Ma safe from selfish Tw*ts like you ..

Within 50m of us ( small, rural village) .. we've had three neighbours that had 'it'

HCQ is indeed a drug that helps specific auto-immune issues .. it has NOT helped those with COVID-19 and your description of how it 'might' stop a dramatic reaction of an infected persons auto-immune system was NONSENSE ... This is not Lupus..

Good don’t use it.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online msmob

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*I* don't .. my daughter has been and clueless tw*ts like you caused shortages for those who REALLY need it
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 01:15:52 PM by msmob »
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Online 2tallbill

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Coronavirus, nobody freaking knows
« Reply #3115 on: June 03, 2020, 10:41:01 AM »
OMG.

Moby,

We have gotten so many conflicting reports about Covid my head
is about to explode. First it wasn't contagious person to person,
then masks wouldn't do any good, then only certain masks work
and then wear a mask (home made from contents found in your
sock drawer) at all times.

Then X drug could be a magical elixir then it's not. Nobody knows
what's going on especially those in charge. It's only dangerous to
old people, then it kills everybody.

New symptoms! Can only get it once or a thousand times! Everyone
measures deaths differently.

We all just have to do what we think is best. Maybe in a few years
there will be some sort of agreement on what the best solution
should be (but I doubt it).

Udachi!

Bill

 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:45:52 AM by 2tallbill »
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Online BillyB

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My government won't let me get a haircut or sit in a restaurant telling me I need to social distance for everybody's safety and to prevent overloading the hospitals. The liberals and media would shame people who didn't social distance. Now they tell me they care about my right to free speech to protest with the mob they're praising. Next week they'll tell me they need to prolong the shutdowns and stay at home due to the increase of infections. Lol.
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Online krimster2

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the shortage of hydroxy probably is probably more a result of Trump’s purchase of nearly 30 million tablets, than individual purchases, I suspect there was intent to sell these 30 million tablets at a profit eventually, seems to be a plot about this that was accidentally exposed when Jerome Corsi, an associate of Roger Stone emailed the wrong person about it

but now, rather than donate this drug to people with auto-immune illnesses and have it interfere with big pharma’s profits, I suspect it will eventually be dumped in a landfill...

yeah America!




Offline GQBlues

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Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online msmob

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http://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/india-boosts-output-of-hydroxychloroquine-drug-exported-to-97-countries-amid-pandemic-says-health-min-2610609.html

Yes, Yes... and there was 'enough' toilet roll / flour / pasta around.. but some still had trouble finding it.. 

YOU 'quote' after 'googling' ..


Sadly, those already relying on HCQ weren't always so lucky ...


Clueless



We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline GQBlues

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Everyone knew there was no shortage. You were the only clueless one. Just thought to help you out. Glad I was able to.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online Gator

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I note that GQB is STILL pushing the 'benefits' of HCQ without a CLUE .. ((


Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine published HCQ studies that prompted WHO to suspend clinical trials.  The reliability of the data used in these studies is now suspect.      The discrepancies are so extreme to suggest the data could have been falsified.  Wednesday the WHO announced it would resume its global trial of hydroxychloroquine.

Pharma companies are researching  several promising therapeutic medicines.  None have yet been proven highly effective.  HCQ  could be effective for some categories of patients, perhaps equal to if not better than other medicines now being studied.  Nevertheless, HCQ is not a panacea, and neither is any other drug under consideration.   

Google:  Lancet, Surgisphere and Sapan Desai.   Numerous sources. 

It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.

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Everyone knew there was no shortage. .

AGAIN, with the crass stupidity ?

You've had this link from the US Arthritis Society

http://www.arthritis.org/drug-guide/medication-topics/plaquenil-shortage

Nigeria... in the Lupus context

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-shortage-hydroxychloroquine-mothers-lupus.html

Prices went up nearly SEVEN times..



« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 06:18:58 AM by msmob »
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Offline fathertime

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It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.
Hypocritical statement considering you do the very same thing if it isn't 'conservative ideology'.

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Online msmob

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It is alarming the depth of corruption to which some professional people will sink in their zeal to oppose conservative  ideology.  It has corrupted FBI leadership, intelligence leaders, news agencies, and now apparently medical scientists.

Indeed, it is alarming how we, I include myself, have become 'experts' in meds ...

In the meantime, the rumours of HCQs dubious effiacy have caused probs for those for which its benefits outweigh the horrible risks..

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-fails-prevent-covid-19-large-study-shows-n1223921
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

 

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