TverRomance

[Admin]

Dan, you need to read the e-mail exchange between me, Richard and his interpreter Anya and use your brain. You so much want to give these people a TR a break that you shut your mind off to what goes on there. Then giving GregK grief because he first posts were not positive? He'd been scammed and wanted to contribute this. You really need to take stock of your self and get some principals. If you don't your going to be perceived a weak or worse conniving. 

Maxx

Maxx,

As I said earlier - everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Your opinion is that I "want to give these people a [sp] TR a break...". And you go on to accuse me of "giving GregK grief because he first posts were not positive".

And whilst you are entitled to your opinion - others will likely conclude differently - mostly because the FACTS of the written record don't support your "opinion" Maxx.

Cheerio,

- Dan

[Bruce]

It is a shame this thread has taken a turn towards temporary rancor without Natasha Deeva having the guts to step up to the plate and answering the basic allegations.  

Richard, the new directions your agency is taking as well as the steps you have put into place to ensure the intentions as well the character of the girls you list on your website is quite commendable.  What I recommend you do is give girls the option of just being listed on your site without paying.  You of course, would not have them on your first tier recommended girls and they would naturally not get the service of the paying ladies.  That way the girl who wants exposure on all agencies in Tver could also be included in your agency, with photos and a description on your website.  You can get gain dollars delivering letters to these girls and charge them (or not charge them) if they want to answer a man.  You could explain the differences between the two levels of female clients you have in your service on your website.  What this second tier of female clients will give you is numbers and eyeballs.  Without numbers, I believe, you will lose alot of prospective clients to other agencies.  Yes, the other agencies probably do not know the majority of their  girls as well as you know yours, but a guy, esepcially a guy going to Tver for the first time, would rather believe he has alot of girls he could meet than being limited to a handful.  I wonder what percentage of the guys, especially newbies,  making trips over to your visibly improving city do more virtual thinking with their little head than their big head? The two tier system would give the American guy checking out your website the ability to see lots of girls and tweak his interest enough so he takes the trip and works with you.  

I think BC alluded to it, but what may be going on here is a case where some guys are scammed and others are not.  That clearly explains the differences between Mike 15 and Maxx.  Why would an agency scam one guy and give another guy great service?  Could it be that said agency is trying to protect a girls interest?  Could it be that TR, after feeling that a client may use another agency or is not going to work with them starts trying to drum up business for itself by writing bogus letters from their girls?  What I am driving at is that it may be calculated letter scamming based upon initial contact with prospective clients ie. not a mass mailing scam every client but a more insidious business practice of targeting certain clients to play the letter scam with.  

Maxx, I think Dan is trying his best to let things present themselves in their entirety prior to judgement.  Different people need more or less information to come to a conclusion.  Since Dan is the board owner I believe he needs irrefutable evidence, with rebutal by acused party etc. prior to making a pronouncement.  

If I was Maxx, of course I would be mad at TR for what they put him through.  If I was Mike, I would be happy with TR for their good business practices.  

What some people do not know does not hurt them.  Perception and knowledge may be the difference between two clients.  

Writing scam letters is a disgusting business practice.  Some guys just may see it differently - but I think it taints the agency that engages in such practices as well as the industry as a whole.  Agencies are getting so good at writing scam letters.........................thats why I advocate finding a city with alot of single women in the age group a guy wants to meet, with agencies you can confirm at least have the majority of the women they say they have on their books, with competent people around you can trust to help you if need be and then forget about the letter writing and just do it baby.......get off your duff, enjoy yourself and see what happens.  

[TwoBitBandit]

I do not know Natasha Deever, and have no basis except for the second-hand or third-hand rhetoric of people who may, or may not, have a vested interest in sullying her or her business interests. I make no judgment of her, or her business practices.

I couldn't agree with this more.

There are some individuals on this thread that have already made up their mind about Natasha.  That's fair, they have direct experience.

I've met Richard and believe he's a stand-up guy, and have never heard anything negative about him.  (Other than "he says what's on his mind," which I like about him, but others may not.)  Therefore, I give some weight to his opinion.  However, I'm not ready to be the police, judge and jury here based on hearsay.

I (for one) am sincerely interested in what Natasha has to say.

[Maxx2]

Just skimming a bit over this one

That's the problem here. People with their minds made up skim over posts, like mine on page 8 and offer their loud and uniformed opinions. This is not directed at you BC.

I hope Richard weighs in on this. Gone for the weekend?

Maxx

[Maxx2]

Maxx, I think Dan is trying his best to let things present themselves in their entirety prior to judgement.  Different people need more or less information to come to a conclusion.

I hope this is the case. When Richard weighs in perhaps he will have enough evidence. Other wise I would have to conclude that he believes us to be liars.

I noticed Dan you drew attention to my spelling errors "(sp)". Do you do that for everyone or am I special?

Maxx

[Admin]

I hope this is the case. When Richard weighs in perhaps he will have enough evidence. Other wise I would have to conclude that he believes us to be liars.

I noticed Dan you drew attention to my spelling errors "(sp)". Do you do that for everyone or am I special?

Maxx

Oh, you are QUITE special Maxx.

- Dan

[Maxx2]

Oh, you are QUITE special Maxx.

- Dan

Thanks, but I pointed that out to show how petty you can be to those that stand up to you.
 
Richard sent me this (on page :
"The result was, 'She did not write the letter you got from TR'. She was emphatic about the fact that she did not write you a letter through TR. So my question is if she didn't write it, who did?"

Yes, who at TR wrote me a phoney letter? Or doesn't that matter and just let scamming agency owners post here?

Dan, the core membership here is going to see these posts and formulate an opinion of you. Don't you care?

Maxx

[Admin]

Thanks, but I pointed that out to show how petty you can be to those that stand up to you.
 
Richard sent me this (on page :
"The result was, 'She did not write the letter you got from TR'. She was emphatic about the fact that she did not write you a letter through TR. So my question is if she didn't write it, who did?"

Yes, who at TR wrote me a phoney letter? Or doesn't that matter and just let scamming agency owners post here?

Dan, the core membership here is going to see these posts and formulate an opinion of you. Don't you care?

Maxx

As they will YOU Maxx.

And yes, of course I care.

- Dan

[BC]

Oh, you are QUITE special Maxx.

Agent 99: Sometime I wish you were just an ordinary businessman.

Maxwell Smart: Well, 99, we are what we are. I'm a secret agent, trained to be cold, vicious, and savage. Not enough to be a businessman.

[Maxx2]

BC, Dan should thank you for your attempt of using humor to defuse this situation. I am just waiting for the Canadian cowboy.

Maxx

[Admin]

BC, Dan should thank you for your attempt of using humor to defuse this situation. I am just waiting for the Canadian cowboy.

Maxx

Huh?? You mean there was a "situation" to "defuse" ??

- Dan

[BC]

BC, Dan should thank you for your attempt of using humor to defuse this situation. I am just waiting for the Canadian cowboy.

Maxx

Maxx,

Actually, this thought came to mind after reviewing your post on page 8 as you suggested, mentioning recording phone conversations etc..  not to mention a striking resemblance, IIRC.. 

[Bruno]

Your stand is getting new membership. Just like it was with Spencer with his debate with jb. Your stand should be in opposing crooked individuals not welcoming them into you board like you did with Natasha Deever. If you read my above post with any sort of comprehension you would see that she should be banned from this place. But you have your own agenda or .... maybe and I will give you this break, you have a been indoctrinated with all your cheer blossum self help books. IMO you need to throw the money changers out of your temple. Am I making myself clear enough for you?

Maxx

Maxx,

Why Dan need to choose a side in these agency fight ? I think that it is the role of a forum Webmaster to stay neutral in so situation...

You speak about agenda... what is yours ? You refert to your post on the page 8... what i see on the page 8 is more the evidence that you and Richard are good friend...

I figure what you should do for the time being is nothing. Don't write through them or anything & lets just see what lengths they will go to, to try & keep your money flowing. Then, when I do go public on RWG & launch my website, you can testify that you have  been going through my agency for this period of time & writing your lady through me but that TR has been sending you letters that your lady has not been writing &  that they are just as crooked as BH. That way I get good PR & they get dogged which is exactly what they deserve.

When i read this, all sound a little like a conspiration... using ONE letter on 3 for destroy a the concurrence of the Richard future agency... communication letter between you and Richard are not evidence... It seem that Richard was with his own agenda too... that you are his good friend...

Evidence will be a post from these girls who say that she have not write these letter... all the rest is bullsh!t...

And you wish that Dan choice your side based on some wind... If i was hem, in no case, i will choice a side... these story have the flavor of skun...

And myself, with the help of your post, i have loose my trust in Richard... You openly prove that Richard is like a snake, ready to hit in the back a other business only for promote his own business...

PS : For business owner, never be involved in a sh!t contest on a forum... both side are always loosing... my 2 eurocent

[Darth Vader]

I think BC alluded to it, but what may be going on here is a case where some guys are scammed and others are not. 
That clearly explains the differences between Mike 15 and Maxx.  Why would an agency scam one guy and give another guy great service?  ...

... What I am driving at is that it may be calculated letter scamming based upon initial contact with prospective clients ie. not a mass mailing scam every client but a more insidious business practice of targeting certain clients to play the letter scam with. 

If I was Maxx, of course I would be mad at TR for what they put him through.  If I was Mike, I would be happy with TR for their good business practices. 

Writing scam letters is a disgusting business practice. 

Hey Bruce dude--You are a smart man!  You hit the nail on the head perfectly.  That's why a few (very few BTW) guys here report good results with TR, while others have been screwed!   

But for the rest of us thinking of going to Tver, do we choose an agency with almost an almost perfect record (i.e. Tver Angels), or do we go with the mixed bag?

As for me, I'll go with the smaller agency with less girls with real photos instead of the slick production of TR.

Each to his own? Fine, except feeding the pigeons keeps the pigeons coming back.  Giving money to a sleaze agency keeps that agency in business!

Now back to the dude that started this strand....I mean you-- Flyboy!

Yes Ave8tor1.  I think you screwed up feeding the pigeons.  But guess what?

TR is going to give you the most royal treatment ever. Yes they will.  You are their poster boy.  You will not get typical treatment but the best, cuz the Natasha dame knows you are going to post a TR about her agency when you get back.

Good for you, but bad for the rest of us.  Because the money she does not make on you she will take from the next sucker.

Gee thanks, man.

But hey, you are well on the way to the dark side 

Darth

[Bruno]

TR is going to give you the most royal treatment ever. Yes they will.  You are their poster boy.  You will not get typical treatment but the best, cuz the Natasha dame knows you are going to post a TR about her agency when you get back.

Good for you, but bad for the rest of us.  Because the money she does not make on you she will take from the next sucker.

Perfect... no people will know that they need to be member of some forum related to the foreign dating for receive the "king" treatment from agency... How much people come here cry after some bad adventure with agency... when the logic way is first comming here for collect information and only after begin the quest... Prevention is always the best way to protect again illness...

[av8or1]

Yes she was respectful, kind and courteous to me when I kindly told her over the phone that her agency sent me a phoney letter. She did exactly as I requested and pulled my profile off her web base. I have all of this on cassette tape BTW.
[snip]
Maxx

You left out the part of my post that applies the most with regard to the subject of my conversation with Natasha, Maxx.  While the kind and courteous thing was and is definitely a factor in my mind, the more important part to me was that she didn't say anything negative about anyone, including her competition in Tver.  That bode well of her IMHO.

While many here are awaiting her response to Maxx's allegations (and possibly Richard's too) I almost think it would be better if she just left it alone.  I doubt seriously that Maxx or any of the others who stand opposed to TR will change their minds anyway.  Therefore Maxx and the others are just as guilty as they profess others to be, their minds are made up too.

But I'm straying now.  The point I wanted to make is that Natasha was positive in every subject we discussed.  I heard no negativity whatsoever and that means something to me.

Best to all,

Jerry

[jb]

I think P.T. Barnum said it best; "There's a sucker born every minute."

If you guys knew anything at all about Russians, you'd steer clear of those agencies that promise the moon.....

[Albert]

Strange.  All very strange indeed.  From my very first intro to these boards some 6 years ago I have always wondered why guys used agencies at all.  I still have the same wonder.

There are thousands of gals listed on free sites and on match sites where you pay a monthy fee for unlimited contact with all the gals.

You completely cut out all third parties and hence . . . have no need to write postings later discussing what agency did or did not screw over you.

There are hundreds of people in FSU who can help you find an apartment and get your from airport to apartment . . . and who are independent, not connected with any agency.

I have had first meetings with over 150 gals in FSU, and have never once used the services of an agency.  Now I feel bad that I cannot report something bad about an agency in these threads.

Strange.  All very strange indeed.

[Maxx2]

I wasn't going to post anything until Richard showed up but here goes. Richard and I gave enough rope to Natasha to see if she would hang herself further. She had already with that phoney letter but we wanted to see where this was going. Yeah Richard thought briefly he might use it to his benefit but he didn't. Even after a year and a half he said nothing about any of this. Who hasn't thought about something and thought better of it? It's what you do that counts and Richard came through. It was me alone that brought this up. And that was to show that N.D. and her agency can't be trusted.

I am accused of having my mind made up on this. I sure am. I was sent a phoney letter. Ask Jack Bragg what thinks of TverRomance and the double charging plus Natasha was going to do to his clients?

Maxx

[av8or1]

[snip]
Now back to the dude that started this strand....I mean you-- Flyboy!

Yes Ave8tor1.  I think you screwed up feeding the pigeons.  But guess what?

TR is going to give you the most royal treatment ever. Yes they will.  You are their poster boy.  You will not get typical treatment but the best, cuz the Natasha dame knows you are going to post a TR about her agency when you get back.

Wow, what an amazingly idiotic post.  Stunning.  Monumentally so.  So let me get this straight: I am now somehow the "poster boy" of TR?  Bwahahahaha!  When did that happen and why wasn't I notified?  Fellas, from what I have heard, read and listened to via telephone, I don't think that Natasha is going to treat me any differently than she will anyone else who uses her services.  If I travel to Tver, I will go in with an open mind, a warm heart, and a positive attitude, just as I will do (and have done) anywhere else I might go (and have already been) in my life.  Did any of you ever think about taking the same approach?  It seems to me that several of you are jumping on the "bad agency" bandwagon WRT to Natasha, probably because of your baggage over previous unfavorable experiences with other agencies.  I haven't spoken to or emailed anyone yet who has BEEN THERE in person, who has used their services and who had something negative so say about them.  Those of you who are shouting the loudest haven't actually been there yet.  Therefore you have a fundamental flaw in the position you have adopted.  By contrast, I will report what I experience with TR honestly and objectively after I return from being in Tver IN PERSON and I will not make any judgements before then.

Oh hell, this just isn't worth it.  I'm looking for the D-ring on this thread.  It's better to just stay above the fray sometimes, well most times actually.  So....as I just stated, I'll judge TR for myself if I go to Tver in November, like any reasonable person would do and my opinion will have punch to back itself up because it will be based on actual experience with the agency while in the city and using the agency, not only from behind a keyboard somewhere.  Besides I've got letters to write and the women at TR are much better looking than y'all!  Bwahahahaha!  Humor, I hope you recognize it.

Oh I can't resist this one below, though I probably should, Lord forgive me, but when a man takes a swing at me I swing back....

But hey, you are well on the way to the dark side  

Yeah, and if I'm going down this path Darth, when I finally get to The Dark Side you'll be the first person I see, huh?  I suspect that after I am initiated into the business, receive my paperwork and am ushered through the winding corridors finally reaching the door that has "Dark Side Personnel Only" written on it, I'll open it only see you and Maxx dressed in your official all-black uniforms trying to settle a bet over who's actually wearing the "standard-issue black underoos" via a vigorous round of strip poker, right?  Bwahahaha!

Gheez, but I couldn't pass it up.  Ok, I'm done.  Recent posts in this thread have begun to shed more heat than light, so it's time for me to give up the ghost.  'Probably shoulda done that a couple of posts ago, but what the heck....I'll leave it to you boys to continue the quibbling....

Best to all,

Jerry

ps-Regarding the poster who basically said that using agencies to meet women is "strange", wow, THAT'S an objective stand to take, especially since you've never USED an agency.  Personally, I have met women from the FSU without an agency, with an agency and through friends.  I've met women who were good, bad and somewhere in-between through all three avenues.  Therefore I have concluded that it all comes down to the woman you meet fellas, not HOW you met her.  So to purport one vehicle over another is absurd.

[Rvrwind]

I thought I was done with this thread.
I am not even going to bother telling what else I know about this agency. Its obvious I'm wastin my breathe & as Dan said it is second hand info & therefore carries less credibility. I'll let those who have first hand knowledge post it themselves if they have the courage to step up & be counted. Not that it matters as all here have witnessed..
If there is one thing that this thread I have gleaned from this thread is that it don't matter one way or the other how honest or dishonest you are in this buisness, you'll still reap the rewards, although the dishonest seem to be doing better at it.
Just FYI for those who claim to think I have an agenda, Yes I do, I detest dishonesty, especially in buisness, but it seems that my efforts to change that are wasted on the illiterate or naive, I'm not sure which & maybe its both.
Also FYI I happen to like Natasha or did until her buisness ethics degraded as hppened with one other who was a friend until busness became in my mind unethical. I have no desire to see either of them go out of buisness, that in case anybody is wondering, is not my agenda. I only ish them to return to a more ethical state of affirs & more reasonable coopertive effort to make Tver 1st. choice for all those seeking a Russian wife.
Yes, Bruno, I did have some nefarious thoughts & I did voice them to Maxx however as he pointed out, I never followed through, why, because that would make me just as bad as them & I can't turn that corner. I suppose you have never felt ill will towards anyone?
I am going to run my agency the way I see fit, open & up front as always, but I am done getting mixed up in this crud for no obvious positive outcome anyway. As Bruce & others have said 'to each their own'. I am somewhat disillousioned about the way this came down. I guess fighting the good fight just doesn't seem worth the effort anymore. Its a losing battle I can't win on my own & when those involved jump ship to the other team, it makes it all seem redundant.
Maxx, relax, it don't matter, we can't win. There will always be Jerrys, in fact there are thousands of them & they'll keep feeding the sharks. I realize that now & have seen the time & effort & emotion I put into it & you know what, 'Nobody Cares!'
So I step back, you'all can look to somebody else to CYA, because I'm done.

[mike15]

Richard

Nice parting comment, of course you are done after slamming Natasha one more time.  You, Maxx and Darth boy, should take your fight directly to TverRomance and use this forum.

I will say it again, they are not a Scam.  I have been to their office several times and there are plenty of beautiful women their.  Not once did they do anything un-ethical to me during my 2 years.  It is obvious that they don't want to work with you and your clients.  I guess it must to be tough for a Canadian to compete with a pretty Russian girl in the Romace business.

You should be more concerned with guys like Albert that avoid agencies.  I am a fan of the agencies for one simple reason, you guys have a personal relationship with the girls.  That is the one thing I like about TverRomace and Life Time Partners, Natasha/Lubya(TverRomace) and Nadya (Lifetime Partners) know all the girls in their program.  In fact I am sure Natasha knows the girls for many years.

[Rvrwind]

Once again you havn't got a friggin' clue.
And I don't slam anybody, I state the facts with proof to back it up. I notice Natasha hasn't dared to challenge any of what as been said. Its easy to challenge & refute lies, its much harder when its the truth. Just because I am an Agency Owner & Competitor, that doesn't make the truth of what I say any less truthful. Its that guys like you who get slipped into the mix every now & then just to keep up the facade that are what keep them in buisness. Well more power to them & much luck to the others that arn't as lucky as you.
Enjoy your success, your luck served you well.
Like I said I'll run my buisness my way & if you ever do get burned don't come crying to me, I don't give a rats a$$ anymore. You made them & feed them, you deal with them & the fallout, I have plenty to keep me busy.

[Maxx2]

Maxx, relax, it don't matter, we can't win.

I have to wonder what has to happen or what one needs to get to convince people? Maybe I was the only person that got a phoney letter from TR? And they never did this before or since? Or letters like these are the only unethical things they do? I also wonder if N.D. would weed out a GCG out of her agency? if by doing so it meant losing a steady source of income for her?

Richard, it will always be second hand information (you witnessed that whole letter business with me right?) for Dan. That is unless it happens to him and he being married that's not likely. It's just an out.

Maxx

[Rvrwind]

Maybe I was the only person that got a phoney letter from TR? And they never did this before or since?

Wrong, you are not the only one, believe it. I just can't seem to convince the others that this needs to be brought into daylight. Luyba herself when confonted by one client admited she was writing letters pretending to be the woman he was writing to. I wish he would come tell his story, he got used pretty good.
Leave Dan out of this, He must remain as neutral as possible. I would if I was in his shoes, do the same thing. Let all parties say their peice & sort it out amoung themselves.
The silence from TR tells it all. Like I said its easy to refute lies & speculation but trying to refute the truth with evidence to back it up, somewhat difficult I should think. Come up with some excuses perhaps, but excuses don't change the facts or the reality.