How necessary English?

[Photo Guy]

KenC wrote:
Quote
I urged her to marry me and then get Advanced Parole for a trip back to Ukraine, but this would require too much time.  She needed to sort through her feelings about her family and her feelings about me.
Rewriting history yet again?
KenC

How am I rewriting? After three months of living with her here in Phoenix, I was ready
to keep her here and marry her. ...I found out she's truly a wonderful gal.  She needed
to weigh her attachment to me and her obligation to care for her sick papa, and there were
other issues. It was very tough time for both of us. Those are things that have nothing to
do with this topic. It's very personal stuff.
When I said I wasn't ready to jump into a marriage, I was referring to my one week with her in Kiev.
What did you think I meant?

Ken, it looks like you're reaching for straws, anything to destroy my credibility, rather than discussing
the topic. It's sad. 

Also, you say TG contradicted himself. Please elaborate on that. I didn't see
the contradiction.

[Photo Guy]

The great thing about Turboguy's and CaptB's posts on THIS subject, is that they allow room for
flexibility, room for variations in behavior in choosing a fluent speaker or a much less than fluent
speaker. This contrasts with the attack dogs who cannot tolerate 'customized' game plans,
and cannot handle unorthodox methods. Simply disagreeing with those types will often cause them
to attack you on a personal level. The great thing is you can decide for yourself what course
or strategy to follow. I have faith that most of the newbies are intelligent people, and can
think for themselves.  There are many members here at RWD who are able to give their
opinions without calling someone silly or whatever, and many also write in a way that shows
a sense of humour.  ...Those members make this website an interesting place and keep me
coming back to RWD.

[KenC]

The great thing about Turboguy's and CaptB's posts on THIS subject, is that they allow room for
flexibility, room for variations in behavior in choosing a fluent speaker or a much less than fluent
speaker. This contrasts with the attack dogs who cannot tolerate 'customized' game plans,
and cannot handle unorthodox methods. Simply disagreeing with those types will often cause them
to attack you on a personal level. The great thing is you can decide for yourself what course
or strategy to follow. I have faith that most of the newbies are intelligent people, and can
think for themselves.  There are many members here at RWD who are able to give their
opinions without calling someone silly or whatever, and many also write in a way that shows
a sense of humour.  ...Those members make this website an interesting place and keep me
coming back to RWD.

Photo,
Where do you come up with this crap?  It is you that is slinging the insults, lies and misinformation.  You must be reading impaired if you missed the eight posts I made in this thread to the contrary of your "low and disrespectful personal attack."  Read them now, or have someone read them to you.

The only other way I see for a relationship to work with the language barrier, is to take the time in order for the English to develop. 
Gator is a good example of this. (page 1)

To be totally honest about this, there have been some couples that made a success of this faced with little or no common language between them(page 1)

I used you as a good example of how a relationship could work with a non-English speaking woman. (page 2)

We for the most part are discussing the additional difficulties, risks and time required to establish a deep and meaningful relationship with a woman you cannot speak with (page 3)

 think that you could learn a lot of the basic stuff through interpreted letters or translated conversations.  The black and white stuff.  I also think that you can develop a physical relationship with very little interactive conversation.  Some things just don't need a lot of talking any way. (page 4)

 am not saying that you cannot find your true love amongst the RW that have no English skills, but that it is a much more difficult and has a much higher risk factor.  The only way to reduce the risks is to take the time for her language skills to develop. (page 4)

No one is saying that you cannot find a good RW that doesn't speak English and there sure are a much bigger quantity to choose from, but it will take more time to get to the point where you have enough "valid" (not imagined) information in order to enter matrimony. (page 6)

Gator really has identified that of course it is possible but it will take an extended amount of time in order for the RW's English to get up to speed prior to making the commitment of marriage.  That makes sense to me (page 7)

Get back to us in a couple of days after you have had time to process this information, OK?
KenC

[DKMM]

Isn't av8or with a girl that doesn't speak much english?  There are varying levels of English ability.  One is complete lack of any, which would be nearly impossible to make work, and another is limited english.  This can work at least in the dating stage.  I am not the only one to experience this, look at Gator's trips for example.  

But getting to the point where you can get married, yeah you would need to have a lot of language lessons for both of you before that could work.  If you are a newbie but committed to doing this, go learn Russian!  It will cost you a lot but the investment could pay for life.

[Rvrwind]

Isn't av8or with a girl that doesn't speak much english?

Yes, but he speaks fairly decent Russian, which is of great help.

[KenC]

KenC wrote:
Quote
I urged her to marry me and then get Advanced Parole for a trip back to Ukraine, but this would require too much time.  She needed to sort through her feelings about her family and her feelings about me.
Rewriting history yet again?
KenC

How am I rewriting?
Ken, it looks like you're reaching for straws, anything to destroy my credibility, rather than discussing
the topic. It's sad. 

Photo,
No, what is sad is your inability to keep your stories straight and that when you get called out on it, you accuse everyone of attacking you personally or tell them that that are low.  What is sad and low is a person that speaks out of both sides of his mouth. The destruction of your credibility was self inflicted, kind Sir.
Again, to get the story correct and not to mislead anyone here with your delusional interpretation of history (as we all know you tend to do) please read this or have someone read it to you so you will grasp the concept of what truly was exchanged up thread:

"And the idea that we were going to jump into a marriage
without exploring each other further is far from accurate, and why pretend
that was the reality?"  -Photoguy

"Did I get the facts fuzzy?  I was under the impression that you spent less than a week in Kiev in the company of Larisa, a woman with whom you could not talk.  Then, did you not go ahead and file for the K-1 visa? 

Those items do indeed tell us you didn't explore each other very much, and by the act of getting the K-1 visa tells us, in fact, that you were prepared to marry the woman within the allotted 90 days." jb

jb, No, some of your facts are way off- Photoguy

"I urged her to marry me and then get Advanced Parole for a trip back to Ukraine, but this would require too much time.  She needed to sort through her feelings about her family and her feelings about me." Photoguy quote posted on 5/20/06 (and reposted by KenC)

Rewriting history yet again?  KenC's low and disrespectful comment

[I/O]

Ok, lets tie a few things together here.  Some are trying to say that English or at least comon language is not too important, interesting how the same people seem to think you don't need much time to devote to this process.  I am mean and nasty because I think 2-3 weeks a year is not enough. 

So if we don't need comon language and we don't need time then why in the hell are there not a lot more guys walking up the isle with their bride instead of writing here?  Maybe it is because they don't have the time, or maybe they couldn't propose to her in a language she could understand?

Maybe some of these highly intelligent and perceptive people who need neither time nor language to make life changing decisions can unravel this incredible mystery for a simple one such as I?

I/O

[ScottinCrimea]

One thing that my wife insisted on was that I had to know enough Russian to propose to her properly, to ask her parents for her hand in a respectful manner, and to understand what was said during the wedding ceremony - what I was actually saying "I do" to.  I think that it was a more than reasonable request.

[Turboguy]

KenC wrote:
Quote
Ken, it looks like you're reaching for straws, anything to destroy my credibility, rather than discussing
the topic. It's sad. 

Anyone who has spent any time here knows you two have some history.  We all say we should be discussing ideas and not making personal attacks.  One one side of the coin I think there is some truth in what PG said above.  On the other side, he takes jabs at you too.  I think PG's history has been hashed around so many times more serves no purpose.  We all have a right to an opinion and can weigh the ideas and their validity on our own.  Take a few deep breaths guys.

Everyone says something contradictory one time or another.  It is probably contradictory that I said that it is possible to have success with a woman who doesn't speak English yet when I find a woman she speaks excellent English.  It is all part of being human. 

Scott, cool,  With my language learning abilities I would have been 90 before I could have proposed.   That is a good motivator though and a reasonable request.

[ScottinCrimea]

Now if I could just learn to tell her no in any language...sigh!

[Turboguy]

Just shake your head from left to right.  There are only a few places that that means yes so the odds are with you.

[I/O]

Now if I could just learn to tell her no in any language...sigh!

  The smallest word, but sometimes the hardest to say to the one we love.

I/O

[Gator]

In the category of "Couldn't resist it":

Scott, cool,  With my language learning abilities I would have been 90 before I could have proposed.

Not that far away.

So if we don't need comon language and we don't need time then why in the hell are there not a lot more guys walking up the isle with their bride instead of writing here?

I resent that.  In three weeks we will be walking on the island Koh Lanta in southern Thailand.

[Turboguy]

There are probably a lot of guys who would make fewer mistakes when they are walking down the church isle if they spent more time walking down the beach of a tropical isle. 

[Photo Guy]

Ken, you are blabbering. What are you trying to say?
Larisa thought it would take too much time to get Advanced Parole
which would allow her to leave the country after marriage.
Her papa needed her home immediately. He was flipping out.
And he was alone after a recent divorce.  I never contradicted
those facts with a 'different story'. So how does all of this
tie in with the 'Necessity of English' topic?!!!   
You are really far out there...   Do you even know what
point you are trying to make?

[Photo Guy]

Turbo,
Yes- a perfect scenario would be to spend a month with her on a tropical beach,
a month in your home town, and a month with her in her home town, and then
maybe a month with her papa for negotiations, if necessary. <wink>

Actually the visa/immigration laws need to change 
I'd like to see a Romance Visa, where the suitor is responsible for
the woman's visit for 12 MONTHS. That would make it a more efficient
process compared with flying back and forth numerous times,
and sharing time during vacation getaways at foreign locations.

[KenC]

Ken, you are blabbering. What are you trying to say?
Larisa thought it would take too much time to get Advanced Parole
which would allow her to leave the country after marriage.
Her papa needed her home immediately. He was flipping out.
And he was alone after a recent divorce.  I never contradicted
those facts with a 'different story'. So how does all of this
tie in with the 'Necessity of English' topic?!!!   
You are really far out there...   Do you even know what
point you are trying to make?

Just proving that you use whatever convenient "truth" you find handy to make your points or to slam me and that you have poor reading comprehension skills.
KenC

[Vaughn]

Actually the visa/immigration laws need to change 
I'd like to see a Romance Visa, where the suitor is responsible for
the woman's visit for 12 MONTHS. That would make it a more efficient process compared with flying back and forth numerous times, and sharing time during vacation getaways at foreign locations.

 I find this idea nothing short of laughable. PG, do you realize how easily this Romance Visa would be thoroughly (and frequently)
abused?

 I propose a "Parity Visa" whereby if a FSU gal has poor English skills, the sponsor must submit to an interview in her
native language.

 No, I find the current scenario of having to meet face-to-face,
financing journeys, and investing time and treasure in a Visa process that should require a high degree of certainty is a great step forward in discouraging a whimsical approach to a convenient bedpartner as you've suggested....

Vaughn

[Bruno]

I find this idea nothing short of laughable. PG, do you realize how easily this Romance Visa would be thoroughly (and frequently)
abused?

Certainly not so much abused that it is now with the K1 visa !!!

Here, we have tourist visa, marriage visa, fiance visa, cohabitation visa ( simply life together )... and we have not qso much abuse that you know with your K1 visa...

How can honestly a RW take the decision to marry a American man without have visit the place ( country, city ) where she wil stay maybe the rest of her life, without see how his futur man act in normal life... it is why the K1 know low success rate ( return home ), why so much people use it like a test periode... they have no choice...

In normal life, you first have the dating periode... followed by a periode where you live together ( can be several month or year )... and only when you are sure, you marry...

[Vaughn]

 Your points are well taken, Bruno, but I have a strong feeling that the frequency of K-1 failures are far more attributable to the couple rushing things along, communication breakdown, and not taking the time beforehand to establish a firm undeniable commitment, rather than geographical phenomena.

 I don't care if he speaks French, German or Swahili - if she cannot express herself in his language - then he better be prepared to speak in hers. Michaelangelo's notion of "marrying the interpreter"
is sounding more viable all the time.

[Turboguy]

You are not going to see it happen but I agree better visa programs would lead to more marriage successes.   I think a sizable cause of the K-1 failures is people who try to deal with the long distances and insufficient vacation time by using the K-1 as a trial period or dating period and not as it is intended.

If there was such a thing as a romance visa it would solve a lot of the problems.  Maybe next I can dream about winning the powerball.

[BC]

You are not going to see it happen but I agree better visa programs would lead to more marriage successes.   I think a sizable cause of the K-1 failures is people who try to deal with the long distances and insufficient vacation time by using the K-1 as a trial period or dating period and not as it is intended.

If there was such a thing as a romance visa it would solve a lot of the problems.  Maybe next I can dream about winning the powerball.

I heartily disagree.

If anything the bar should be raised.  At the moment, in theory all that's required is a 5 minute meeting to take a photo, some telephone records, fill out a few forms, wait a couple months,  have a health checkup, study a bit for an oral exam and it's practically a done deal.

I guess 'true MOB' is what some folks really want...  go online, pick a 'gal', buy her a ticket, keep her as long as you want and if she's starts giving you any sh!t stamp 'Return to Origin' on her forehead and drop her off at the local post office on your way to work.

I'm quite astounded TG, considering your last experience that you would support digging a hole to put the bar in.  That SOB CO at the embassy was right on target trying to save you a big headache..

I dunno.. looking over the last few pages of posts I see opinion and experience. I just hope the newcomer reading this thread can tell the difference.  Listen to those who managed to marry a RW and maintain their relationship for at least couple of years.

I've said it before and will do so again:  Had my wife and I not been able to communicate well before we married our relationship would not exist today.

FWIW

[jb]

BC,

You are so right, words fail me.

[Photo Guy]

This may sound very strange- I think the government has NO place in our personal lives,
our romances, or our marriages. The govt should facilitate the pursuit of happiness.
Why should the govt care if I spend a month in the Domincan Republic with her, or
here in the US?  If she isn't a threat to national security or the safety of others,
why should a temporary visa be strictly regulated?  I don't exist to please
the government, it's the other way around, or should be.  I am not suggesting she
should sneak into the country and wash dishes, but maybe that would have less
of a stigma.  If she came here to visit me for a year, why should the government care?
The rules and regulations are non-sensical. We have to justify a romantic relationship to
a bunch of bureacrats in Washington?  For that matter, here in the US, why does the govt
need to know about my marital status? It seems to me, the only justification should
be social security or medicare concerns.  You people put up with a lot of non-sense.
...Question authority. <grin>

[jb]

P/G,

You are as phucked up as Hogans goat.

After 9-11, all those *romantic* dreams of yours went south.  Welcome to the real world.

Santa has a list, and he's checking it twice, if your girl ain't on it,,, she may, or may not get in.... Get over it, start to play by the rules, you might actually learn something by listening to what is said around here.

But I doubt it.  You are one of the most hard headed, least tractable, most un-knowledgible individuals I've ever encountered.  You actually deserve to be unfavorably blessed in this quest.  Refer to the thread about who shouldn't get a rw wife.  You are that poster child.