Interesting article from the LA Times.

[Phil dAmore]

Exactly.  Richard's docs were in perfect order, at least for Tver.  The problems began when the local cop demanded to know why there was no St. Petersburg registration stamp.  Did I mention that Richard had arrived on the 6AM train from Tver and this happened approximately three hours later, at 9 AM?  

I'm certainly no expert on Russian immigration law (but I am learning!!) but I can't find anywhere that specifically states that anyone travelling from the city of their current registration must carry their train (or plane, or bus) ticket with them until such a time that they are registered.  

If anyone can find this requirement please post it!  No need to translate it, I can figure it out.

In all this discussion I think the main point has been ignored. Most foreigners would LOVE to follow the rules.. if we only knew what they were.  As pointed out in an earlier post, Russia just loves to change the rules in mid-stream.  Call (or more likely, go to) any government office and ask 3 people working there the same question, and you will get 4 different answers and an instruction to go to a different office.

I have experienced this last item firsthand in my continuing pursuit of a Russian residency card. I can't get the card until I am registered at the apartment that I own (my name is on all documents related to the apartment) and they won't register me at the apartment until I have the Residency card!  This is what we sometimes call a 'Catch 22' in the west.

Obviously something is amiss but one cannot get a definitive, authorative answer from anyone.

We'd love to follow the rules. But they have to stop moving the ball.

[Jack]

Bruce I guess I have been somewhat lucky as you have. Been to Moscow now, 12-13 times, somewhere in there, and never once have I been hassled by the police.

On the other hand, in my favorite city of the FSU, Kiev, I have been stopped/hassled now four times.  The first two times I did not have my passport on me and I was yes-sir, no sir, sorry sir. But did not have to "donate" any money. Although the second time I and two other guys and three ladies were stopped and I did not have my passport they told me to leave. I said yes sir, ran to my flat, got my passport and ran back to where my friends were. While I was gone they hit up one American and one Ukraine man for some money.

The two times I was stopped with my passport, noooo problem what's so ever, although the Ukraine man with me one of the times was searched.

[LEGAL]

I'm certainly no expert on Russian immigration law (but I am learning!!) but I can't find anywhere that specifically states that anyone travelling from the city of their current registration must carry their train (or plane, or bus) ticket with them until such a time that they are registered.  

Phil, I'm not sure but maybe it can help 

http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/C952E5476E3A4D8CC32572620045068B

http://www.moscow-city.ru/rights/

Olga.

[Mir]

Strange no one has ever asked me for passport and I have never carried it either!

Some people in Ukraine try to speak with me in Russian or Ukrainian and my friend said that I look Russian which is strange to me?

[LEGAL]

Rights of foreign citizens and persons without citizenship in the Russian Federation

http://petersburgcity.com/for-tourists/safe/rights/

Olga.

[ScottinCrimea]

I have never been stopped and asked for my passport anywhere here in Ukraine.  In fact, I stopped carrying it around with me well over a year ago.  Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I just look either Ukrainian or else a guy they don't want to hassle.  At any rate I feel sorry for any policeman who gives me any trouble because he would have to deal with my wife and mother in law.  God help him!

[Rvrwind]

Elen -  the first thing you need to do is understand what you read!
I did not require a stamp in my passport. I was in SPB less than 6 hours, I have 3 days to get a stamp, three working days , if I read the law correctly. We were leaving for home the next day so in actuallity a 2 day stay does not require a stamp. Also, like Phil, I have yet to read any law that states I am required to carry my cancelled train or bus ticket on my person. My passport & Visa Yes, anything else, no!
I didn't have my cancelled train ticket with me as my wife had them in her purse, as Phil said 300 yards from where we were stopped. It would hav been a very simple matter for them to accompany us to Phil's apartment & show them the canceled ticket but as I recall they never even asked for it. As a matter of fact even after I was released they never did see it & never asked to see it.
What the big issue was is that 2 weeks previous to our visit to SPB the wife & I had spent 4 days in Moscow & I had a stamp in my passport for registering in Moscow. Why that confused them, I have no idea. They never even talked to my wife but released me just as her & Phil appeared at the police station.
I broke no laws, which was obvious by the fact that I was not charged or required to pay a fine. They were in the wrong, which was corrected by a policeman of higher rank that spoke reasonable English & I was released.
No, Phil I never did recieve an apology & never will!
What the Higher ranking officer found funny was that I kept insisting that they were going to have a big problem if they didn't drop this & let me go about my buisness. When he inquired why? I just said because I am married to a Russian Woman & she is pretty pissed that you got me locked up for no reason whatsoever & when she gets her she is gonna rip you a new one & that my dear sir is gonna be your problem. He just started to unlock the cell laughing & told me if I am married to a Russian Woman, I'm the one with a problem & walked away chuckling as I was led out by a sargeant & waked into my wife & Phil coming through the front door.
Dealing with Elen makes that statement soooo true.
But the bottom line is that no matter how Elen wishes to skew the facts or twist the information. I did nothing wrong & when I held out long enough for someone of authority that was honest rather than try to "bribe" my way out. I was released, therefore proving the validity of that statement.
And just for the record, I have never paid a bribe & never will, That is not to say that I have not been threatened by individuals who feel they are entitled to a little "barrish". Contrary to Elens opinion, those phone #'s are useless. Unles they are caught in the act of taking a bribe, nothing will be done. It has to be a fairly high profile case involving large sums for them to go out of their way to set up a sting operation, I know, BTDT.

[Rvrwind]

I have never been stopped in Tver & asked for my Doc's. Only in Moscow & SPB & then only when my wife has not been present.
One time in Moscow outside the train station she went in to use the ladies. I stood guard over our bags. She wasn't gone 5 seconds & they were on me.
I just stalled them till she returned & boy did they get an earful. They were pretty humbled as they walked away. Not sure what she said but she was loud & some words she used weren't for polite company & if you know my Valya, loud & vulgar she isn't, but boy when she gets mad, which I have only seen twice, you don't want to be within reach!!
Gotta love that kinda protection!

[Elen]

Elen -  the first thing you need to do is understand what you read!
I did not require a stamp in my passport. I was in SPB less than 6 hours, I have 3 days to get a stamp, three working days , if I read the law correctly. We were leaving for home the next day so in actuallity a 2 day stay does not require a stamp.

The first thing YOU need to do is to undestand what YOU read

 If you had a PROOF something like a sign printed on your your forehead with capital illuminating letters that you were in St Peter EXACTLY less than 3 days then you would have no problems Otherwise nobody could guess ( except you and your friend ) that you arrived just now.  

If seriously read the law more carefully and don't think that your "just word" would have any value in bureaucratic procedure.

1.  you had a passport without local city ( tat city where you were stopped by police but not where you stay in Russia) registration stamp
2.  you had NO proof that you were in this city less than 3 days to have a right for that legal excuse which law gives in such case

3. 1 and 2 is ENOUGH for police to invite you to local post office

Your "sad" experience I think proved you that you were wrong about Russian law. If you got nothing from such experience and still think that here laws would work like YOU wish then I pity you and can help you with nothing. You just leave yourself on a mecry of police patrol.
 They may do what with you what they wish ( in frames of law of course) - eighter to bring you to police office for "lecture" that you should respect local laws, or to lock you for a couple hours to give you a time to think toughfully about that it woauld be better if you followed advices of that Elen or to let you just go on a street, or to make you pay a penalty IF they in their turn manage to PROVE that you have been in ST Peter MORE than 3 days 


----------------------

Don't know about St Peter's laws but Moscow has it's OWN laws ( because it's someting like an "independent"  state inside Russia) According to Moscow law registration is nessesary not only for foriegners but for Russian citizens- not Muckovites as well. So nothing here to speak about "particular" attitude to you just  because you are a foreigner)

[ScottinCrimea]

I think Elen needs to re-read the title of this board.  It is Russian Women DISCUSSION, not Russian women ARGUMENT.  I have yet to see any post by Elen in which she is discussing rather than arguing.  Since in previous posts she has stated that she knows everything, then why the heck is she here other than to be a troll and create contention?

[Rvrwind]

If I needed the proof then the simple question is - Why did they release me without ever seeing it or even asking for it?
Seems to me by your logic that I shouldn't have been released until I showed that "proof" & or paid for the crime I so bodly committed.
I'm on the top 10 most wanted list now

[Elen]

Because Russian police men are very kind to foreigners And because they had no right to do with you something else except to lecture you that you must get that registration. ( But to invite you to police office was in their right) 

That's not MY logic  That's a logic of our law.
You may discuss that logic sitting a cell in local polece office for behaving according to your own logic in that matter A plenty time to do that 

[Rvrwind]

I only "must" get that registration if I am going to be there more than three days, Otherwise I don't have to get a damn thing! That is the law! And that does not give a cop the right to detain me because I still have 2 days left to register.

[Elen]

I think Elen needs to re-read the title of this board.  It is Russian Women DISCUSSION, not Russian women ARGUMENT.  I have yet to see any post by Elen in which she is discussing rather than arguing.  Since in previous posts she has stated that she knows everything, then why the heck is she here other than to be a troll and create contention?

1. How do they say there? TWO can dance tango ( or something like that)

2. Do you really think that any of your ideas how Russian women are "obligated" to carry discussion would have any value for Russian woman?

[Elen]

I only "must" get that registration if I am going to be there more than three days, Otherwise I don't have to get a damn thing! That is the law! And that does not give a cop the right to detain me because I still have 2 days left to register.

First of all you must PROVE that you in that place LESS than 3 days THAT is an idea you can not get for such long time

If you had NOT such a proof then police HAS a right to invite you to local police office
-------------------------------------------

Police in its turn must PROVE that you were without registration more than 3 days

If they have NOT such prove then they have no right to demand a penalty but only have a right to invite yo to local police office
( such prove could be if they caught you with the same absent of registration second time after 3 days of your fist "arrest" In that case you would pay that penalty )

--------------------------------------


PSS I'm tired already to expalin you in million time local law about registration.  Let you do here what you wish. Just think that not everyone of you have Russian wife here to rescue you from a celll in local police office ( So better save more carrency for you would be able to pay bribes - it seems really the only one way for those who refuse ( or just is not able for unknow reason )  to learn local rules

[Rvrwind]

Elen - they did not ask for any proof at any time. Had they asked I would have gladly complied, however they did not. They were not concerned with that whatsoever.
That is the part you are not getting...
I had the proof, they didn't ask for proof!
My registration was not required.
There only concern was the Moscow registration stamp from two weeks earlier, which by the way they never did explain why it was such a bg deal. Perhaps they just don't like Moscow? Who knows?
But I repeat - they did not ask for proof at anytme so why do you keep twisting it to that when it is irrelavent?

[Elen]

Elen - they did not ask for any proof at any time. Had they asked I would have gladly complied, however they did not. They were not concerned with that whatsoever.
That is the part you are not getting...
I had the proof, they didn't ask for proof!

Of course they were not concern aout proove of YOUR rightness ( which you had NOT) It was YOUR concern. Their concern was only that you had NOT proper registration for that moment for that local place. 

Any way like I said - do what you wish - Let go to other city in Russia without registration and any document that you have a right to use a delay with registration for 3 days. Let get invitation to local police office if you were such lucky to stop at a street by police You would have few hour  in a cell to explain Russian policemen your western not screwed logic. 

Ps ( for those who have more "open-mind" I could say that if you stay in HOTEL in Moscow but not in appartments you have only 24 hours after your arriving  ( but not 3 days) to get registration stamp. You may ignore though my information but don't tell later you have not been told so)

[Rvrwind]

Yep, I'm really thinkin' that cop was right!! At least in this regard.

[Elen]

Just a though

 You spent 4 days without registration You are stopped on a street by police They ask for registration a which you have not You tell them that you arrived just now so you have a right not to have that stamp.

 According to your logic they must just let you go  right?

Just wonder hoe naive sould be person to believe it would happen 

And how stupid should be foreigner to not make conclusions that it's really better to keep documented proofs of your "rightness" from all this silly discussion

[BC]

Elen,

The only problem I ever had:

Went to RU, visited OVIR to register living at a private residence.. took 7 days to finally get the stamp.  At the insistence of MIL, 10 days before my visa expired we applied for an extension (I know.. unheard of ) and received it 2 days before my return flight in the form of a new visa that expired the day after my flight.  Unfortunately they overlooked or did not bother to register the new visa at the time they issued it.

At the police check after check-in I handed them passport and both visas.  The guy then insisted my second visa had to be registered and caused a bit of a fuss until my wife intervened for a 20 minute tirade of sharp words.  After all, what was I to do?.. overstay my new visa in order to get it registered? I was last to board and had the whole bus all to myself.  I don't know where I would have landed without her.

At SVO they didn't even bat an eye and 'stamped' me through without comment.

Yeah, sometimes in life we run across some unhappy @sshOl who didn't 'get sum' the night before - this is however quite universal and certainly not limited to RU. 

I think we are talking exceptions here..  Heard it in another thread that the good never sticks out as much as the bad does.. quite true IMHO.

[Elen]

Anyway MY point ( which I "argue" here instead of carry civilized discussion  :: like I'm supposed to do) ) is that's better to do ANYTHING in legal way, in proper way and in time for not be sorry later ( or at least to low chance to be sorry if you are so lucky to run into some a$$ like you call them)

No need to cry such laudly about "bad" laws if you don't bother yourself to learn those laws and follow them to begin with.

Ps behavior of policemen and boardguard  who in many cases don't bother themselves with checking your papers ( which only proves that they do not "hate" all of you foreigners) actually is a lucky case but not a rule at all.

[BC]

Ps behavior of policemen and boardguard  who in many cases don't bother themselves with checking your papers ( which only proves that they do not "hate" all of you foreigners) actually is a lucky case but not a rule at all.

Elen,

Law is rarely, if ever perfect, thus the need for judiciary to make final determination, even in RU.  There are cops everywhere that have and use a bit of common sense, avoiding the need for escalation.  Some, OTOH may feel like they are 'not paid to think'.

[Rvrwind]

You spent 4 days without registration

Huh???
Where did I say that??? Gawwd!!!
I was there 4 friggin' hours not 4 days!!!
I can't win this, I know that now so I succeed. You are smarter than any of us & I'm sorry I just can't invent facts like you do.
Usually when you hit a nail on the head enough times it sinks in or bends. Even when you are pesented with the bold facts you still argue till I'm blue in the face or change them to suit your argument so I give up. The propaganda machine has worked its miracle. Russia is great, its the rest of the world that is all screwed up!!! Yeah,right, I'm there for ya' babe!!!

[Elen]

You didn't get an idea

it was "presumtion" but not acusing you in something 

 "let presume"  ....  what different would it be for a police in THAT "wrong"  case if you could not prove it was not so in your "right" case 

Ps Also if you can't win over me here you may go to this thread http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1111.0 and try to fight for your opinion about police in Russia there with boys  You would sound much like Casanova there with your emotional posts

[Elen]

Elen,
Law is rarely, if ever perfect, thus the need for judiciary to make final determination, even in RU.  There are cops everywhere that have and use a bit of common sense, avoiding the need for escalation.  Some, OTOH may feel like they are 'not paid to think'.

You see I did ask a question how often foreigner dealt with what seemed for them like "no common sence" of Russian police From what I could see it was only Richard  with his personal experience And even in his case all has been done in frames of law ( he just refused to admit that  )