The Age "Old" Debate.

[KenC]

Elen,
How arrogant of you!  But then again, we have come to expect arrogance from you.
kenC

[Elen]

Elen,
How arrogant of you!  But then again, we have come to expect arrogance from you.
kenC

Indeed what else could you expect from Russian  - such an arrogant creature who dared to intervent your males' English language forum and interrupt your high intelligence discusions about ... what a surprise    Russian women with her silly comments

Okay Okay I promiced to leave you in a peace
Bye-bye (for a while  ) 

[KenC]

Bye bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass.
KenC

[Elen]

Bye bye, don't let the door hit you in the ass.
KenC

What? Since when you worry about my ass 
But don't cry I'll be back 

[Chelchov]

well after  9 more years  the woman  wont be able to control her real emotions , that is very bad when one can not express his/her true real opinion about this or that situation ,cos she will develop double faced creature inside of her.

There is nothing to be proud of I should say , telling that someone adopted to completely different psychological condition not  natural for  her culture, killing her/his real emotions  , that will never lead to anything successful , it is Slavery

WOW!  That's one of most apocryphal remarks I have ever heard in my life!   

Come on...  That's not true!  How come it is slavery when she's forced to destroy her real emotion?  American people do show their true emotion...  Where do you get this fact from?  Didn't you invent this from your head?   

[Jazzyclassy]

No I did not invent this Dear Chelchov

there are such situations and if you do not know about them , that does not mean they are not existing

if you are living in America of course you should adopt to their way of life and things, but you should always remain who you are, who you truly are!

and sometimes all these american Lock and fake life of all these big houses and fountains all over your garden , you are living close to Brad Pitt and  Jack Nicholson and so on and all of these things can make you try and suit that american society so much that you actually lose what you had before you moved in to America

even if you are living in very crazy Harlem block of flats close to afro americans , that does not mean you should just become one, and sometimes people are totally forgetting their culture

I do not know maybe it is natural for them and I have no right to judge but

it irritates me  when my sister is calling me from Germany and she is living there only for 2 years she uses a lot of german words is trying to speak with accent , though she completely knows and remembers all the words in russian . But she always get a chance to say  Oh I do not know how you call it in russian but in Germany we call it  bla bla bla

and in my head am saying what? how I call it in russian ?? who are you to tell such things , german girl? oh I doubt

so you see there are a lot of examples like that

and they are ridiculous and sad at the same time

[WmGO]

Jazzy,

You need to face reality: you are simply not well suited for immigration to another country. The sooner you come to that
realization the sooner you can get on with the rest of your life
in your own country. Until then you are just holding yourself back.

Good luck.

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy,

You need to face reality: you are simply not well suited for immigration to another country. The sooner you come to that
realization the sooner you can get on with the rest of your life
in your own country. Until then you are just holding yourself back.

Good luck.

You are very kind  towards me  and so thoughtful

the same thing you can tell your partner or the person whom you love and you will see the reaction......

[BC]

Anyone that marries a RW needs to accept them as they are and not pretend that they will be any different in the future.

If you want something that you can form and mold as you wish buy playdough instead.

[jb]

Jazzy,

You are in the middle of a personal crisis as you plan to move to your boy's home.   It's understandable and, believe it or not, quite normal.  My own wife, (older and maybe a bit wiser than you), went through much the same thing when she first arrived in my town.  I believe many of the other married men here will agree when I say this, but she found nothing,,, really NOTHING, pleasing to her eye when she first got here.  Everything in Russia was better, from the lack of public transportation right down to the quality of the potato's and tomato's we can get at the food store.  It was only after she had been here awhile and returned to Moscow for a visit that she began to see the old Russia with new eyes. 

I think you are in for some new experiences which may be confusing to you since these experiences will challenge everything you now hold dear and true.  It will not make you less a Russian, but it might broaden your horizons so that you will start to see the rest of the world as perhaps better than you now imagine.

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy,

You are in the middle of a personal crisis as you plan to move to your boy's home.   It's understandable and, believe it or not, quite normal.  My own wife, (older and maybe a bit wiser than you), went through much the same thing when she first arrived in my town.  I believe many of the other married men here will agree when I say this, but she found nothing,,, really NOTHING, pleasing to her eye when she first got here.  Everything in Russia was better, from the lack of public transportation right down to the quality of the potato's and tomato's we can get at the food store.  It was only after she had been here awhile and returned to Moscow for a visit that she began to see the old Russia with new eyes. 

I think you are in for some new experiences which may be confusing to you since these experiences will challenge everything you now hold dear and true.  It will not make you less a Russian, but it might broaden your horizons so that you will start to see the rest of the world as perhaps better than you now imagine.

this language  and such kinda method of expressing words I understand thank you

I will bare that in my mind:)

[groovlstk]

Jazzy,

Anyone who wants to tag you as a failure before you've even set foot on an airplane based on a handful of your posts here is a moron.

You're young and emotional but you've got some very big advantages going into this, first and foremost is that you love your fiance. Believe it or not, most Russian and Ukrainian women who arrive in the USA (and I'm sure the UK) on K1s don't love their fiances--but I'll shut up about that one. You're fluent in English so right off the bat you won't have that wall of isolation that many women (including my wife) have had to overcome. Sure you'll be lonely and miss your family, friends, culture, and language, but you'll have the ability to make friends and achieve some independence quickly.

I for one am not counting you out

[KenC]

Jazzy,

Anyone who wants to tag you as a failure before you've even set foot on an airplane based on a handful of your posts here is a moron.

You're young and emotional but you've got some very big advantages going into this, first and foremost is that you love your fiance. Believe it or not, most Russian and Ukrainian women who arrive in the USA (and I'm sure the UK) on K1s don't love their fiances--but I'll shut up about that one. You're fluent in English so right off the bat you won't have that wall of isolation that many women (including my wife) have had to overcome. Sure you'll be lonely and miss your family, friends, culture, and language, but you'll have the ability to make friends and achieve some independence quickly.

I for one am not counting you out

Groov,
I might agree with you except for the lack of an open mind and the lack of desire to assimilate that Jazzy expresses here.  Those are huge negatives.
KenC

[LenaC]

Hey Jazzy!
You want some Russian honesty?!
Grow up and learn to understand that that world is much bigger then you know!
I am happy be Russian American. I do not make an assumptions about life here, I experience it first hand and I LOVE IT!
My advice for you: Go read Allegory of the Cave by Socrates. You need to get out of your cave!
Best of luck.

Yelena C
Slave from San Diego:))))))

[LEGAL]

LenaC Welcome this is the first time Olga and I have seen you post. Another woman's point of view is allways interesting and welcome. Olga and I hope you post more. 

PS Olga and I are looking forward to meeting you and Ken on our up comming cruise.


LEGAL

[Jazzyclassy]

       Jazzy,

Anyone who wants to tag you as a failure before you've even set foot on an airplane based on a handful of your posts here is a moron. ......................      I for one am not counting you out      

Thank you dear Groovlstk, unfortunately we wont be able to escape all those judgings here , actually there is an advice if  a person wants to be successful  before he /she  is married he/she just should not tell anything about his or her partner as it will be judged and brought down  beforehand, when it is official wife or hubby  then they can not touch them, they are all brave here  yelling to their wives and hubbies- Oh this person offends me or  can not agree with my opinion in the forum , can you come and beat her or him up awwww how sweet my sweet amazing wifichka/hubbichka.........

I am sure  if my boy came here to the post board maybe some people would experience greatest lovely pleasing words (he told me if you need me there I will come on the board but am not gonna involve my boy into these not worthy talks he is too busy at the moment , studying ) , some   failed here  to my mind 

[I/O]

Jazz: You are largely "Up the creek without a paddle" in this thread.  Do you think my fiance' will become my slave? Really, think carefully before you answer.

I don't invisage that very independant woman (Your words remember) becoming my slave, running after me, bowing to my every wim and fancy.  Do You?

Nobody here, I repeat nobody is NOT interested in other opinions.  What people are interested in is opinions and ideas based on fact and fair judgement which will help various people to improve or succeed in this whole pursuit.

Yes you girls did sidetrack the thread completely and that is your perogative, but what have you achieved? You havn't put forward hard evidence to back up your claims.  You have, in your own words, quoted stories you have heard.

Honestly, get real, if many of us here made our judgements regarding Russia and Russians based on the stories we hear right in our own communities about Russia/s we would never bother to set foot in the place. The reputation of Russia/s based on stories is very low indeed.  Did you ever realise that? We all know the reality is very different because most making comment here have at least been and seen. 

I did far more research about Russia for many reasons before I went there than you probably will ever do about USA and I thought I had some kind of handle on what Russia was all about. Guess what?  I arrived in Russia and within 20 minutes realised I knew NOTHING whatsoever.   You will find the same when you arrive in the UK.  Likewise you know almost nothing about real life in the USA, remember I told you once and you were very surprised that although we have an excellent lifestyle here and a good degree of affluance, in some ways, we are still far behind the USA.  I remember your complete surprise. 

The USA is not all about fancy houses and being on the "Rich List".  Nothing even remotely similar to that. 

As for developing a different style after time in another country, that is simply a fact of life and you would do well to consider that carefully.  You will NEVER lose your Russian soul.  Nobody would want you to, but you will, like it or not, become very "UK ized" if and when you marry "J".  If you are smart, you will take your heritage and culture and weave it together with your partner, thereby "adding" to the culture of where you will live.  But you will never dominate that culture.  You will never isolate yourself successfully and try to retain a complete "Russianess", it just ain't gunna happen. 

For example, I know your accent and it is not a strong Russian accent when you speak English (Compliment there FWIW) therefore you will develop some British accent after time.  If you try to fight that, you will not survive. You will, if you want to succeed, become somewhat British in your manner and thinking, but you wont lose your Russian soul.  Time to stop worrying about that kiddo.  I think you are right now.

As for your spat attack exchange with Ken, frankly that is dumb.  You don't know him, he doesn't know you and as such will only form opinions based on what you write here.  So far a good degree of what you have written over time has been unseemly provocative and not based on real fact or experience.  You can and have done much better and I suspect if you focus on facts rather than stories to substantiate your comments, you will see a very different response from other posters.

You are entitled to your opinions, nobody denies that, however, so are others and if you don't like those opinions or style it is put across, that is life and you do no good by dragging it into a personal exchange.  A "Jab" from time to time to get someone to refocus is not a bad thing and it IS "Part and Parcel" of a forum such as this, but extended slangging matches don't achieve much.

It is a pitty this thread was phuct up and not only for my own selfish reasons, but because I have gleaned over time that a number of people have some questions regarding the "How To's" in an age gap relationship and could have benifited from healthy opinion rather than total condemnation of the fact.

I/O 

[Jazzyclassy]

I am tired

[I/O]

and another thing do you think  all those advices will help you to live your life?

Yes, in fact I do.  Surprised? The day we stop accepting advice from others is the day we stop learning and the day we stop learning is the day we die.  I don't always apply the advice given to my own life, but I DO sure as hell listen, particularly to those with greater experience than me.

Jazz you've just gone at it again and then contradicted yourself in the same post.  You said, sorry I spoilt the thread and then you said, well actually I did not spoil the thread and then you launched back into the same rot. 

You and Ken are never going to agree on many things.  Ken and I don't agree on many things, but that's life, get over it.  The basic thing you have not caught in this thread is that it was intended to have NOTHING TO DO WITH OPINIONS ON AGE GAP, it was intended to examine ways to deal with age gap.  You've just gone on and on trying to justify a position which is not justifiable. 

As for Lena and Ken having a extraordinary age gap, yes they do and if they were both here starting out, I and many others would caution them as to the dangers, BUT THEY ARE NOT.  They have been married for who knows how long and appear to understand very well the struggles and such that go with such a marriage, certainly much better than those of us looking from the outside and definitely those who have never been married at all. 

This is a place of learning and slinging "Grandpa" type comments is insulting and rude at best.  It has no place and is no better than some of the insults thrown at you in other threads.  Jazz, that type of thing is plain poor form regardless of where you live now or where you may live in the future.

What has been achieved in this thread, is that at least 3 people are now seriously asking themselves the question whether or not they really want to be involved with a Russian woman at all, because they are far from impressed with the examples shown here.  Maybe that is ultimately a good thing. Perhaps that was your intention?  Somehow I think not.

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

I deleted by post before cos I see no reason to tell anything here anymore in this thread

maybe after this thing people will post what the author wants to hear.......

[groovlstk]

Groov,
I might agree with you except for the lack of an open mind and the lack of desire to assimilate that Jazzy expresses here.  Those are huge negatives.
KenC

Ken,

I may be wrong, but what I see in Jazzy is not a lack of desire to assimilate or a closed mind, but a simple fear of the unknown. I saw this same fear in my own wife in the weeks before her K1 interview date. She panicked about losing her "Russian soul" and becoming an American zombie - all sorts of nonsensical stereotypes she picked up from God knows where that lead to some very heated arguments over the phone until I realized that she wasn't looking to debate me, she was simply looking to me for reassurance that she wasn't going to have to undergo some radical inner transformation in order to fit in here. From her second day here, she never mentioned this stuff again as she realized all the Elenesque stories about Americans having cookie-cutter souls was hogwash (anyone want to send Jazzy a DVD copy of Cool Hand Luke?)

Anyway, I've met Russians who refuse to assimilate, some even at Jazzy's age, in Brighton, and there's no way she's even close to that ilk.

[pitbull]

To Lena C:

Lena, just FYI:
Allegory of the Cave belongs to Plato, not  Socrates 

[I/O]

I'll be back 

Wasn't it an American who famously made this statement? 

I/O

[KenC]

Wasn't it an American who famously made this statement? 

I/O

I thought it was an Austrian? (Arnold) :noidea:
KenC

[I/O]

I thought it was an Austrian? (Arnold) :noidea:
KenC

KenC:  I do beg your pardon.  Yes that's the critter I was thinking of.    Ah well the Ex Pat Austrian Politicians don't have a good history of returning....Hitler didn't, maybe the Russians will do better?

I/O