league and age gaps

[mspanky]

 A lot of Russian women here hAVE to marry or else leave. I have a know who met his RW here on a work VISA or student (I'm not too clear on that) but they were in the state of Wisconsin and after being here a couple of years,they got married. But he is in a small town and she was in a desperate situation. These girls are smart. They know there is not a snowball's chance in hell the American guys in their age group will marry them. Even if they found a guy dumb enough to, they know financially he will not be in a position to support her and pay for lawyer bills,school and whatever else they need.

  Their solution,date older guys who can do for them what young ones will not! RW are not stupid! Especially the ones on work and student VISAS already here. They will find a way to stay!

[mspanky]

 By the way, some people are taking shots at Turbo. I was in that camp too. But see they are tow peas in a pod. She is exciting and full of hopes and dreams,he understands her which may be difficult for guys her age. Though I think the age difference is huge, and could not see myself with a woman 37 years older no matter how well preserved she is I wish them luck.

[IAmZon]

Gator ... more than any other, I pray you never give up!

The greater the age gap, the more time.  Yes!  I am learning this first hand.  Youth and Sex appeal wears off (but it is fun!)  But other dynamics of the relationship are different too - not good or bad, just different

About a target ?!?!?  I have found a special person; and both of us are evaluating each other for deeper possibilities.  Ii have spent a great deal of time with her, which is easy since I do not have to leave the US.  She is tough.  But maybe so am I.

Love did not explode within us.  Rather it was lust, then friendship ... now something more is happening.  I am "open" to more developing with her; and she is "open" to me.  In our case, more will happen if it is very very right.  If not, we will both enjoy the ride.  Friends first.  A very unique relationship.

She has impressed me very much by her courage and capabilities.  She remains a full time student, works two jobs - part time waitress; full time analyst on Wall street.  I am financially generous when we are together, but other than that she is own her own.  And she has her Green Card.  She is the kind of girl who men approach and stand in line for.  If she wanted to use a man, it would be easy for her.  BTW, she is not from Russian or Ukraine, but rather Romania.

I have resisted doing any TRs, because in my case, I have not left the US.  More than that, there is nothing I have experienced that would be a unique contribution.  Perhaps for the first time, I started this thread as a contribution (in the Experienced section), rather than a question, or seeking support. 

[Gator]

I think it is impossible to connect the dots from your thread-starting post to your last post.

Well anyway, good luck to you and your woman.  I hope it works out to the best.

It would be interesting to write a report about what you observed in the behavior of your RW vs. the behavior you expected from the many reports by men who went to the FSU.  Please do me a favor - just pretend when you write the report that I will read it.

BTW, I know a couple of  OUMB (old unmarried bastards) who have had relationships with RW in America.  Cameraguy is one;  B&B is another.  Both were dating RW while I was still in marriage counseling.   Neither concluded in marriage, with one of them no longer interested in RW.  Yours is not unique.  Infrequent, but not unique.  RW are everywhere.

[Kuna]

Kuna’s response to Turbo surely was intended for another thread unless this is a canned response that his computer automatically posts after every Turbo entry.

Gator,

You know I have great respect for you so please take this comment in the tone it is made.

You're recent "defence" of large age gaps is understandable but not necessary.  Yes, I'm generally opposed to vast age gaps (for a few reasons) but MANY times I've mediated my comments by saying some men have greater social credibility and therefore are more likely to sustain a large age gap.

mspanky says he wishes them luck.  So do I.  I also agree they are two peas in a pod but when Turbo talks crap he needs to be corrected because others following his path will invariably end up in a train wreck.  That is why I continually challenge him... not because I think I will influence him but rather s o future newbies understand he is NOT the norm.


Turbo,
You are the last person to lecture me on COMPREHENSION.  Goodness knows where "comprehensive" came from... if we're going to bring this down to grade one level I will start by correcting one of you frequent errors with the English language...  You can't LOOSE me....  but you can LOSE your senses.  The only thing LOOSE about you is your management of reality.

Now we've got the grade one stuff out of the way let's start...

1.  Most any man can find a woman who is reasonably right for them.  It does not matter if he is rich and handsome or fat and ugly.   Usually the rich and handsome man will end up with a beauty queen at least in the fsu.  The fat and ugly guy may end up with a fat and ugly woman.  (If I am still loosing you let me know and I will draw pictures)

2.  Even a fat and ugly guy can find a woman in the FSU.  He may even find one that is plain and chunky (still OK?)

You mean a beauty queen like this? 

http://blogs.news.com.au/news/entertainment/index.php/news/comments/miss_teen_contender_mystique_or_mistake/

What you don't seem to accept is that a wealthy man will choose his partner based on his past experiences and future desires.  He MIGHT have had all the pretty young stuff a man could ever want in a lifetime and his introspection leads him towards something that is more valuable for HIM.

A fat or ugly man may have a magnetic personality that draws all kinds of people to him and therefore he will end up with someone that many may consider "out of his league".

People are individuals all over the world and you can't match them up purely on physical characteristics.

You're attempt to explain this is so incredibly superficial but I'm not surprised... It's fitting of you but a poor representation of reality!

3.  The biggest problem is the fat ugly guys listen to the agency hype and go over expecting to meet a wife on the same level as the handsome rich guy and there are enough scammers that feed that as well.

4.  With the exception of guys who have low incomes and can't afford to travel and nutcases (even some of those succeed for a while) and extreme cases most anyone can find a wife in the FSU.   It will probably be a notch or two above what they can do here and a notch or two above nothing is a woman with real arms and legs but she may not be the first one you see on A-Web's home page.

5.  One of the problems is the agency's convince them they can find a 20 year old beauty queen who will be happy to come back to their shack and pop out kids and cook and clean. 

Turbo... EVERYONE listens to the agency hype until they find RWD or make a few trips and gain experience on their own. 

Some spend 11 frigging years chasing their fantasy and are deluded enough to STILL twist reality into "logic".   

It's been said many times before but let me echo KenC's words... Marrying a FSUW is not for everyone! 

Example?  I have several single friends here that would be terrible partners for a FSUW.  Why?  Some drink too much... some are too career focused (i.e. travel 20 days a month)... or (as in one case) he has failed at marriage in Oz 3 times and complains that his wives expectations of him were too high. 

Encouraging ALL men to go to FSU is irresponsible.  Every man should understand himself and be honest with himself about his abilities and future desires before travelling.  If a "10" is what he wants he needs to work out what a "10" is in his mind. We have a member here who boasts about his partner but I (respectfully) just don't see it.  All that matters is that they are happy though.

If family is what he wants he needs to understand what that is.  Whatever a man wants he needs to make sure he is being realistic because the challenge isn't marrying.. it's MARRIAGE.  Can he make it last?

If you think any of that is foolish I have to question your state of mental health.

You're a dead-set tosser! To question my mental health in your current situation (not the vast age gap... the deluded view of life you've lived for a decade) is a bit rich.

Dude... you're the town clown and you don't even know it.  Some people are entertained but then again some people like looking at fatal car accidents!   

[Voyageur]

rivardo,

It has been said many times before. You may think that you know what it is like to date a FSU woman.  You may have done so in the US. But you really have no idea about them (as hard as it might be to imagine this, after having spent so much time with them as an American GF/BF) until you visit them in their cultural surroundings. It is a night and day difference.

You have to experience what it is like in day-to-day life, how she waits and catches the bus instead of driving, how relatives interact with each other, how she shops for groceries, how she spends her holidays with friends, how she never goes outside without her high heels, how she opens the vault-like door to her apartment, how the hallways look terrible but the apartments are almost always immaculate.  How she can go to the pharmacy and buy medicine without a prescription, how how presents and gifts are mandatory items when visiting, how you get your passport stamped at OVIR, how disoriented you are for days after arriving from a 10 hour airplane ride. Seeing men with beer in the central park (every town has one), taking a picture of dadushka Lenin.

Well, you get idea. Get over there dude!

P.S. I guess you could tell from this ramble that Mrs. Voyageur is over visiting relatives and I am a bit homesick for my other home.

[IAmZon]

Voyageur ... I think you are absolutely correct.

[vwrw]

Each time Kuna calls somebody silly and foolish I remember a story of my childhood. I was told by my older brother that stars are much bigger than the moon. I looked at him and said – “FOOL!” Each time when I recall this story I am wondering why when a person does not understand something said by other one, he calls the other to be an idiot and fool??? Or why the more a person has learned, the deeper his inferior complex is that he knows a little about the real reality??? (Did anyone see Gator to call other one idiot or fool?)
1.   People with great comprehensive skills do NOT call other to be idiot or fool.
2.   Kuna very often comes to inference that others are idiots or fools.
3.   Therefore Kuna has problem with his comprehensive skills and as a result he cannot evaluate the reality objectively.

[Turboguy]

Rivardco, you have shared only a little of where you are at and that is sometimes a very wise move.  Voyager always makes posts that are right on and add a lot of valuable content and wisdom.   I have to agree that even though you have dated some RW in America they are Americanized to an extent and seeing the FSU is a really great way to begin to know and understand at least a little of their life and culture.   I hope you find yourself walking around Red Square or Krashatik one of these days.  It will be an awesome experience.

Kuna,  first off sometimes my fingers go faster than my brain and you are correct there is a difference between lose and loose and I do understand that difference.  Perhaps it is an associate thing and that certain people may plant a subconscious word like loose when you think of them.

I will agree that some of my comments were as you put it incredibly superficial.   Remember you seemed to be lost when I explained myself in a normal manner so i was bringing it to a first grade lever which precludes covering all of the possible variables that can come into play.  You are right.   A man can be fat and ugly and have a wonderful personality and that may change the game.  A man can be fat and ugly and extremely rich or famous and that can increase his chances in the FSU.

I also agree with you that there are some guys who should not be in the persuit at all.  I even believe I listed a few of these in my last post.   I believe I mentioned those who did not have the financial ability to make a trip and then just lumped the others into "extreme cases" to keep the post from being to long.   There are a wide range of others who should not be in the persuit including some of the ones you mentioned.   You listed a heavy drinker.   I would not exclude them.  I have met a few RW who were alcoholics and would only be happy with an alcoholic.   (I think I mentioned before the one gal I met who drank the better part of 5 bottles of champagne and 3 beers and passed out on me.   She needs one to be happy.  Otherwise she was a good prospect).   I have seen a few on RWD that I don't think are suited for it.  I think I said in another post a while back who one of those is but I can be wrong and maybe not.   Time will tell.

Kuna, if you see me post something that you think may lead some newbie astray i would encourage you to jump in and anyone else as well.  I would not want to lead anyone astray.   

I am in a relationship with a large age gap.  Like others in a similar situation I do my best to say that I would not recommend it for anyone else and that I believe it can add to the difficulties and challenges that are already large enough with a marriage to someone from a different culture.   

The exception that I can remember is with Gator and his decision between his former fiancee and the Cossack.   While most were encouraging him to persue the Cossack I voiced my opinion that his former fiancee was the right choice for him.   I would consider Gator to be one of the wisest person on RWD if not the wisest and a very clear thinker whose posts always amaze me.  My opinion in his case had nothing to do with the age gap.  My feelings were that his heart really belonged to his former fiancee and not the Cossack and he was making his choice for protective reasons and not because of his or her feelings.   I just felt if she needed protection from a mistake it was her choice to make.   I think the way I saw it was that she wanted him and he wanted her and he was afraid he was a mistake for her. 

The other time that some could (and did) misunderstand my point was when I was looking for more information about exactly what difficulties people had experienced.   That was not an attempt to justify anything or encourage anyone.   I was simply looking for more details of the problems that may lay ahead for me.   This is always mentioned and always mentioned in a very vague way.  I still have been unable to get any answers about the difficulties those with an age gap are always talking about.  I do get information about theoretical problems that may or may not occur in 20 years but nothing about what I really was asking about.

I also commented that so far VWRW and I had not had even the smallest problem with it.   That was not meant to encourage anyone else or to justify anything.   It was simply to say the truth, that so far we have had no difficulties from it and that is why I was asking what I could expect.   Part of RWD is about learning.  I was trying to learn, not to teach. 

[CaptB]

Voyager,

My wife was just going to contact yours to see if she needed anything "muled" to Stavropol. I (probably like you) am too busy to make the trip this year. Vika will be leaving Sept. 13 and coming back Sept. 27. I see your wife is already there (so probably no mule service needed). Hopefully I will make it back next year. I told Vika to ear an "Arizona burger" at GOODNESS for me.


Capt B

[ScottinCrimea]

The other time that some could (and did) misunderstand my point was when I was looking for more information about exactly what difficulties people had experienced.   That was not an attempt to justify anything or encourage anyone.   I was simply looking for more details of the problems that may lay ahead for me.   This is always mentioned and always mentioned in a very vague way.  I still have been unable to get any answers about the difficulties those with an age gap are always talking about.  I do get information about theoretical problems that may or may not occur in 20 years but nothing about what I really was asking about.

I also commented that so far VWRW and I had not had even the smallest problem with it.   That was not meant to encourage anyone else or to justify anything.   It was simply to say the truth, that so far we have had no difficulties from it and that is why I was asking what I could expect.   Part of RWD is about learning.  I was trying to learn, not to teach. 

Turbo, rather than propose a theory, let me give you a specific example of a problem that you and vwrw may be facing in the future because of the age gap.  My mother at age 60 married a man 13 years older than her.  They were very compatible and enjoyed doing many of the same things.  One of the things that they loved to do was to travel.  The problem that they are facing now, 10 years later, is that my mother is still very full of energy, loves to get out, travel, see places and people, etc. OTOH, my step father has lost much of his energy to do these things as his age is catching up with him.  My mother expresses a lot of frustration with this. Her choice is basically to sit at home with her husband or go out alone to do the things that she enjoys doing.  Now one of the reasons that she married him is that she enjoyed doing all of these things with him, together, as a couple.  If she was happy just going out alone she could have stayed single.  Aas much as anyone wants to believe that age will never catch up with them and slow them down, it happens to everyone and it will happen with you much much sooner than vwrw.  It's something that you are going to have to deal with, possibly sooner than you imagine, and the frustrations can be overwhelming if the relationship isn't strong or is built on the wrong things.

[Kuna]

The other time that some could (and did) misunderstand my point was when I was looking for more information about exactly what difficulties people had experienced.   That was not an attempt to justify anything or encourage anyone.   I was simply looking for more details of the problems that may lay ahead for me.   This is always mentioned and always mentioned in a very vague way.  I still have been unable to get any answers about the difficulties those with an age gap are always talking about.  I do get information about theoretical problems that may or may not occur in 20 years but nothing about what I really was asking about.

I also commented that so far VWRW and I had not had even the smallest problem with it.   That was not meant to encourage anyone else or to justify anything.   It was simply to say the truth, that so far we have had no difficulties from it and that is why I was asking what I could expect.   Part of RWD is about learning.  I was trying to learn, not to teach. 

Turbo,

Firstly your attempt to belittle me (The Grade One comments) made you look stupid.  If you don't like what you're hearing put me on ignore.  I'm not your enemy but I am an enemy of delusional thought. You're more comfortable being absorbed by it... but please spare the newbies!

Perhaps the men with the answers think they would be wasted on you and while I've got no experience in this area (other than casual dating at home) let me take a punt.

1) As Scott says you will slow down much faster than vwrv.  You might think at this stage you will keep up with her but you can't.  The problem here is that you are likely to begrudge her newfound life, friends associates (and maybe lovers) when you are sitting at home knitting or baking cakes.  Her life won't and shouldn't stop because you can't keep up... This will happen.

2) You're going to have to face constant speculation and sometimes ridicule because you've not broken the social norms... You've smashed them.  You might say you can ignore this but add it up day by day, month by month and it will probably be a factor (not for you.. but her).

3) Men are going to look at you and look at her and think they can get a bit of "stuff" on the side.  Of course she won't be tempted but as you slow down and she is feeling unfulfilled things may change. Fact: the number of men a nd women cheating on each other is about equal now... What type of woman do you think cheats?  I reckon one emotionally and socially unfulfilled is more likely.  I've seen you joke about Viagra but keeping a woman interested for the long term needs much more than chemically assisted sex.

4) She may strike a great opportunity in life (business, career, etc) and really want to grasp it.  You may not be in a position to travel with her and keep up with her because age has caught up.  You won't be able share that with her and that will be difficult to accept as time passes. How are you going to feel when she is grasping that opportunity but you can only watch?  How will she feel if you ask her to let go of her opportunity because you can't keep up.  I know you have grand plans for her success in the US.  Perhaps you will regret this in future...

5) Whilst your life is winding down hers will be speeding up.  Two people will be moving away from each other whether they mean to or not.  The only way to avoid this is to get her to slow down in her life to the same speed as yours.  That is unfair and unreasonable.  If she doesn't you'll have to accept she will have a business life, social life and life away from you, and then the risks will skyrocket.

6) You will get tired of socialising with her friends because they do things you don't understand or appreciate.  Everyone should have friends but if you tie her to your friends (people of your age) it will drive her crazy eventually.  If she develops her own friendships it will probably drive you crazy eventually.  You're just in different stages of life  and that will create a divide.

I think the comments you've heard before abut death and disability are things we all need to face.  No one is immune from an accident.  To me your greatest risks will be the things that happen to you on a daily basis.  To me the greatest disadvantage of a huge age gap like you've pursued is the fact that you can't share your life with someone... you can only share a part of her life.

If you accept you might have 2 or 5 years together and are happy with that then maybe you're n the right track.  I can't help but think a lasting relationship shared by socially equal partners would be much more fulfilling than the rush you must have been feeling over the past few months.

It's a terrible position you've put yourself in that really has no respite.  You've avoided her family and friends throughout the courting process and probably for good reason.  You won't be able to avoid the inevitable once she arrives in your home though.

I don't wish you ill... but I can't help but think you're going to live out your last years regretting the mistakes you've made only BECAUSE you've not accepted reality.

Good luck,

Kuna

[Voyageur]

(I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but..) CaptnB,

Thanks for the offer to take something to Russia for us, but my wife already spoke to yours. Vika already made the offer to my wife, but both are is fine with all their packages.  Yes, I have had a burger (after feasting for days on Russian food at the place you spoke of) and it was a guilty pleasure after all those days of my wife's and babuska's cooking - the fish, pork, that salad-and-mayonnaise concoction and borscht.

[KenC]

KUNA!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't know you had it in ya, Dude.  Very very good post!

I have had many of the same thoughts & feelings through out my 8 year marriage to Lena.  To be honest, even some guilt feelings too.  The only thing that truly makes it work for us is the incredibly strong love we have for each other.  I know that many (most) people think that the 25 years difference Lena and I have is way too much and I would agree under "normal" circumstances.  I cannot fathom a 37 years difference.
KenC

[Turboguy]

I am going to be working until the wee hours tonight so I don't have time to respond in more detail right now but I will agree with KenC that was a good post Kuna and you put a lot of thought into that and had some good comments.   

Scott's post was also good and I appreciate the thoughts.   If I get done early or need a break I may post in more detail, otherwise I will respond in more depth tomorrow.

[vwrw]

1) As Scott says you will slow down much faster than vwrv.  You might think at this stage you will keep up with her but you can't.  The problem here is that you are likely to begrudge her newfound life, friends associates (and maybe lovers) when you are sitting at home knitting or baking cakes.  Her life won't and shouldn't stop because you can't keep up... This will happen.

2) You're going to have to face constant speculation and sometimes ridicule because you've not broken the social norms... You've smashed them.  You might say you can ignore this but add it up day by day, month by month and it will probably be a factor (not for you.. but her).

3) Men are going to look at you and look at her and think they can get a bit of "stuff" on the side.  Of course she won't be tempted but as you slow down and she is feeling unfulfilled things may change. Fact: the number of men a nd women cheating on each other is about equal now... What type of woman do you think cheats?  I reckon one emotionally and socially unfulfilled is more likely.  I've seen you joke about Viagra but keeping a woman interested for the long term needs much more than chemically assisted sex.

4) She may strike a great opportunity in life (business, career, etc) and really want to grasp it.  You may not be in a position to travel with her and keep up with her because age has caught up.  You won't be able share that with her and that will be difficult to accept as time passes. How are you going to feel when she is grasping that opportunity but you can only watch?  How will she feel if you ask her to let go of her opportunity because you can't keep up.  I know you have grand plans for her success in the US.  Perhaps you will regret this in future...

5) Whilst your life is winding down hers will be speeding up.  Two people will be moving away from each other whether they mean to or not.  The only way to avoid this is to get her to slow down in her life to the same speed as yours.  That is unfair and unreasonable.  If she doesn't you'll have to accept she will have a business life, social life and life away from you, and then the risks will skyrocket.

6) You will get tired of socialising with her friends because they do things you don't understand or appreciate.  Everyone should have friends but if you tie her to your friends (people of your age) it will drive her crazy eventually.  If she develops her own friendships it will probably drive you crazy eventually.  You're just in different stages of life  and that will create a divide.

Kuna, all you listed by you are speculations on subject what may happen between Turbo and me in future.
The question is – What are the difficulties that couples with age gap have OVERCAME and which are the reasons to avoid age gap relationship??? You see, none asked you to list WOULD-BE difficulties.

From Kuna: People are individuals all over the world and you can't match them up purely on physical characteristics.

vwrw: do you understand that all of your items above are based on physical characteristics?  Maybe it is the time to listen to your own conclusion?
It is our privilege to decide which of difficulties WOULD-BE ours and which of the difficulties would not –be ours because only Turbo and I know our individualities. 

[Kuna]

I have had many of the same thoughts & feelings through out my 8 year marriage to Lena.  To be honest, even some guilt feelings too.  The only thing that truly makes it work for us is the incredibly strong love we have for each other.  I know that many (most) people think that the 25 years difference Lena and I have is way too much and I would agree under "normal" circumstances.  I cannot fathom a 37 years difference.
KenC

KenC,

With respect, may I comment on your situation?  Thanks...     ( I know you didn't respond but I'm sure you won't mind)

I get the impression you and Lena are in a different situation even though you too have pushed the limits of reality.  In my opinion there is a HUGE difference between a 25 year gap and a 37 year gap though... and you're future is also impacted by your respective ages at the beginning of the relationship.

Example:

- Couple with 25 year gap meets when man is 45.  The most difficult time will be the the early years while the girl is young and potentially changing. I believe if the marriage lasts this time it'll last the distance.  When you are 70 Lena will be 45.. she's not likely to be hankering after "new young friends"... she'll be settled and hopefully content.

- Couple with 37 year age gap meet when man is 65(ish)... The beginning won't be rocky because they'll both think they are madly in love.  When he is 70 she will be early 30's.  Most women struggle with their biological clock at this stage and while vwrw says she doesn't want children I swear all women reconsider those thoughts in their early 30's... if not sooner. Add to that her desire for a career (whether that be in her own business or not) and turbo needs to brace himself for some very lonely times... not by choice... but by necessity.

So... You're 70 married to a 45 yr old... Turbo is 70 and married to a 32 yr old...  guess who's head is in a noose???

Are you sitting down??? I'm about to overstep the line... 

Ken,  IMHO the best thing you could do for your relationship is have a child because when you are in your old age and Lena is in her middle age you will both be focused inwardly... on your family.. and on your home. 

In Turbo's situation... what's he going to do?  Having a child is a HUGE call for him even if they wanted to. It wouldn't necessarily focus them inwards because it would add the burden of a child because he won't keep up with his wife OR child.

It's sad... been poorly thought out... and unfortunately a great example for those older men that are hankering after a young girl in their bed.

Finally... I kinda know something about this... 

My father's third marriage had a 40(ish) year age gap but it worked for him for one simple reason. I'll get to that soon... 

Yes he had more assets and income than anyone around - and that keeps a young wife happy... Yes they travelled all over the world so he could visit his 800+ staff... Yes, they had a lifestyle that everyone on the outside envied... What they didn't have was a mutually fulfilling relationship because she only stuck around because she was dependant on him.  vwrw won't be dependant on turbo so he can't play out the same "game" my father played.

Why did it work for him?  At age 70 he was diagnosed with a brain tumour and he died 3 weeks later.  I hate to say it but when his time came the best he could hope for was a quick end.  Would she have stuck around if it was a prolonged illness??? I doubt it.  7 months after his death she married his lawyer. 

Not nice... but understandable!

Kuna

[vwrw]

From KenC: I have had many of the same thoughts & feelings through out my 8 year marriage to Lena.

vwrw: Could you be so kind to explain in more concrete way?  So as some can come to conclusions that your marriage seems to you so difficult because you have suspicious that your wife is emotionally and socially unfulfilled and thoughts of a lover bother you. Or maybe you could not keep up with her due to your age?  
Or what did you imply under your words?  

[Turboguy]

The funny part of this is that based on the answers, there only seems to be one person who understands what my real question was and that oddly enough that is VWRW.   I will say that Ken did give one answer to that in another thread but that particular example was probably the reverse of my situation with VWRW.  I don't mean any of this in any negative way to anyone and do appreciate all the thought and work that have gone into the answers.

The real truth is that life has it's uncertainties and there are no guarantees.   I won't deny that we make choices that improve or worsen the odds we face.   Perhaps when I/O was creating his song titles the song "The Gambler" might have been more appropriated.   I have a younger cousin who has been married for a long time.   Actually I was part of the wedding party when they married.    He has spent the last 20 years pushing her around in a wheelchair even though she is still in her 50's.   He loves kids but unfortunately they were never able to have any.  He is very involved in Boy Scouts.   I think the scouts are his surrogate children in a way.   It is probably not the kind of live he dreamed of having but he seems happy in his life.   Yes, VWRW could spend the next 20 years pushing me around in a wheelchair.    You never know about life.  It is not impossible I could spend the next 20 years pushing her around in a wheelchair.   My dad was married two times.  His first wife died of a brain tumor in her 20's less that two years after they married.     

Life is often not as we expect it to be.  Kuna, after your six points you said.  "To me the greatest disadvantage of a huge age gap like you've pursued is the fact that you can't share your life with someone... you can only share a part of her life."

When I compare my life with VWRW and my life with my former wife I can't feel in my former marriage that we shared much.   Basically for her I kept her fed and clothed took care of her sexual needs, mowed the grass and took out the garbage.  This let her be free to persue the kind of life she wanted which was basically did not involve me that much.   With VWRW I feel like we really do "share" something, almost like we are one person.  I feel like we are well on the way to be that best friend and lover type of thing you hear about but don't often see in real life.  Personally I don't feel like I will not be able to share my life with her, just that I may not be able to share it for the next 1000 or 100 years like I would really like.  We are hoping for 20 and if it turns out to be 5 then we will just go for the best 5 years of our life. 

[pitbull]

Quoting Kuna: So... You're 70 married to a 45 yr old... Turbo is 70 and married to a 32 yr old...  guess who's head is in a noose???

Kuna, it seems that the right answer is - BOTH 

[IAmZon]

Kuna, I have always admired the completeness and honesty of your posts.  Usually, they have centered on your search.  This topic is a separate issue, and you have made solid well meaning points.

Ken C, excellent and revealing.  Your a champ

Turbo and VWRW, If I were you guys... I would have taken the friends you've made and exited this place a long time ago.  The fact you have NOT speaks volumes.

Whatever happens, everyone KNOWS.  Best of luck.

Personal comment to Turbo, "Livin' la Vida Loca, baby"

I am in the mood to take a little crap for the sake of self discovery.  I just saw some photos from my vacation, and god dammit if my girl does not look like she is 17 years old in some photos   Oh my GOD!  I am a mini Turbo!!!

She is 26.  I am 43.  She is powerfully young at heart.  When she sees a line to get into a concert, club, whatever ... it attracts her.  I would prefer to go where there are no crowds (but once I'm there, a few shots, and I'm good)  Yet she is very mature by US standards.  I find that I fulfill a role of protector when we are together, increasingly she seeks my guidance.  And, although I am giving this relationship a chance there are red flags that I continue to see.  (Without divulging too much, she is set at a very very high speed) 

So, I continue to date in the US, and wonder about dating FSU ladies in the FSU rather than in the US.  Certainly, I see an age difference between the US ladies I date and the FSU ladies I date. 
- ave age gap for US girl and me is 10- 13 years.
- ave age gap for dating FSU women in US 19 - 17 years. 
- AND the ladies that I have communicated with / talked to on the phone ... add another year, or two. 

From a physical appearance and personality stand point, I'm OK.  I "look" to be in mid 30's, with the kind of personality that enables me to mix very well with people old enough to be my children. 

I would be interested to hear from members who have found / married women with an age gap similar to what I am negotiating.  Forget the sincerity of motivations for a moment, green card girl, scammer, etc... (I've got that covered); I am interested to hear the good things AND the bad things that may remain unseen until you walk down that road.

[catzenmouse]

Riv,

 Voyager's post was an excellent and realistic one. The girls you have been dating may have great accents but they are not really Russian women anymore. They are a hybrid RW-AW that are enjoying the high life here. Once you do actually go you will understand the points that have been made about this. Nothing you read or hear or see about it truly compares to the reality of time in country.

Good luck and get off your butt and go dammit!

Ken

[KenC]

From KenC: I have had many of the same thoughts & feelings through out my 8 year marriage to Lena.

vwrw: Could you be so kind to explain in more concrete way?  So as some can come to conclusions that your marriage seems to you so difficult because you have suspicious that your wife is emotionally and socially unfulfilled and thoughts of a lover bother you. Or maybe you could not keep up with her due to your age?  
Or what did you imply under your words?  

VWRW,
Just for you, I will go through Kuna's list.

[) As Scott says you will slow down much faster than vwrv.  You might think at this stage you will keep up with her but you can't.  The problem here is that you are likely to begrudge her newfound life, friends associates (and maybe lovers) when you are sitting at home knitting or baking cakes.  Her life won't and shouldn't stop because you can't keep up... This will happen.
Unfortunately, I went through some health issues earlier this year.  During that period of time, I came face to face with what it might be like later in my life and it wasn't pretty.  Lena took excellant care of me and I didn't hear a whimper, but I felt a tremendous amount of guilt for what she may go through down the road.

2) You're going to have to face constant speculation and sometimes ridicule because you've not broken the social norms... You've smashed them.  You might say you can ignore this but add it up day by day, month by month and it will probably be a factor (not for you.. but her).
One can say that they don't care what others think about their marriage, but it simply isn't true.  We all interact with other people all through our lives and the stares and snickers get terribly old quickly.  Kuna is right on the money with his comments except that this ridicule will be a burden for both the man and woman, not just her.

3) Men are going to look at you and look at her and think they can get a bit of "stuff" on the side.  Of course she won't be tempted but as you slow down and she is feeling unfulfilled things may change. Fact: the number of men a nd women cheating on each other is about equal now... What type of woman do you think cheats?  I reckon one emotionally and socially unfulfilled is more likely.  I've seen you joke about Viagra but keeping a woman interested for the long term needs much more than chemically assisted sex.
We have had guys hit on Lena right to my face.  The cheating angle has not come into play due to our strong love, trust and confidence.  Lena is of very high moral caliber as is all her family.
4) She may strike a great opportunity in life (business, career, etc) and really want to grasp it.  You may not be in a position to travel with her and keep up with her because age has caught up.  You won't be able share that with her and that will be difficult to accept as time passes. How are you going to feel when she is grasping that opportunity but you can only watch?  How will she feel if you ask her to let go of her opportunity because you can't keep up.  I know you have grand plans for her success in the US.  Perhaps you will regret this in future...
Compatibilities of careers is a very tricky deal especially in age gap marriages because the couple is at different ends of their career paths.  Much compromise is necessary in this area.
5) Whilst your life is winding down hers will be speeding up.  Two people will be moving away from each other whether they mean to or not.  The only way to avoid this is to get her to slow down in her life to the same speed as yours.  That is unfair and unreasonable.  If she doesn't you'll have to accept she will have a business life, social life and life away from you, and then the risks will skyrocket.
This too is right on target.  It takes an exceptional amount of trust and love to work through the differences.  I think we handled this the right way, with putting Lena's career plans on hold for a few years, but that again is a lot to ask for.
6) You will get tired of socialising with her friends because they do things you don't understand or appreciate.  Everyone should have friends but if you tie her to your friends (people of your age) it will drive her crazy eventually.  If she develops her own friendships it will probably drive you crazy eventually.  You're just in different stages of life  and that will create a divide.

The truth is that you will not be accepted by either age group of friends.  In the older group, the guys will be fine and you may even get a few "atta boys" but their wives will make sure you will not be involved in their social circle in the future.  The younger group of friends will not only not be able to understand the young woman's love for the older guy, but will constantly try to tempt her to stray.  Everyone will assume it is a marriage based on money, position and immigration, love will never be guessed.
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

The funny part of this is that based on the answers, there only seems to be one person who understands what my real question was and that oddly enough that is VWRW.   I will say that Ken did give one answer to that in another thread but that particular example was probably the reverse of my situation with VWRW.  I don't mean any of this in any negative way to anyone and do appreciate all the thought and work that have gone into the answers.  Isn't it amazing how, when someone doesnt get the answers they want, they claim that their question wasn't understood?  TG, no matter how many ways you phrase the question, the answers are going to be the same and probably not to your liking.  Since I like metaphors, let me offer one.  You're standing in front of a bus and asking how you can keep the bus from hitting you.  Of course we are all saying Move!.  Your response is, "You didnt' understand the question.  I was asking about the bus, not me."

The real truth is that life has it's uncertainties and there are no guarantees.   I won't deny that we make choices that improve or worsen the odds we face.   Perhaps when I/O was creating his song titles the song "The Gambler" might have been more appropriated.   I have a younger cousin who has been married for a long time.   Actually I was part of the wedding party when they married.    He has spent the last 20 years pushing her around in a wheelchair even though she is still in her 50's.   He loves kids but unfortunately they were never able to have any.  He is very involved in Boy Scouts.   I think the scouts are his surrogate children in a way.   It is probably not the kind of live he dreamed of having but he seems happy in his life.   Yes, VWRW could spend the next 20 years pushing me around in a wheelchair.    You never know about life.  It is not impossible I could spend the next 20 years pushing her around in a wheelchair.   My dad was married two times.  His first wife died of a brain tumor in her 20's less that two years after they married.     

Life is often not as we expect it to be.  Kuna, after your six points you said.  "To me the greatest disadvantage of a huge age gap like you've pursued is the fact that you can't share your life with someone... you can only share a part of her life."

Sure life is uncertain, but there's a big difference between accidently being hit by a bus and intentionally walking in fromt of one.

When I compare my life with VWRW and my life with my former wife I can't feel in my former marriage that we shared much.   Basically for her I kept her fed and clothed took care of her sexual needs, mowed the grass and took out the garbage.  This let her be free to persue the kind of life she wanted which was basically did not involve me that much.   With VWRW I feel like we really do "share" something, almost like we are one person.  I feel like we are well on the way to be that best friend and lover type of thing you hear about but don't often see in real life.  Personally I don't feel like I will not be able to share my life with her, just that I may not be able to share it for the next 1000 or 100 years like I would really like.  We are hoping for 20 and if it turns out to be 5 then we will just go for the best 5 years of our life. 

You have had 4 months togeher and you haven't really faced any of the difficulties that will test your relationship.  Have you thought that maybe the relationship you had with your ex-wife was maybe due to your choices more than hers?  How was your relationship in the beginning?  I'm sure it was full of thoughts of passion, friendship, sharing a life together, etc.  Having even less in common with vwrw, there's a high probability that this marriage will end the same or worse.

It's clear that you two have made the decision, for better or for worse, and nothing we say is going to change that.  You are both adults and have the right to choose your own lives. Pointing out the pitfalls may be good for others in the beginning stages of thinking about finding a wife with a big age gap, but for you this needed to have been done 11 years ago.  We here are all certainly wishing for the best for you. We would love to see one of those "exceptions" actually be an exception.  Just don't look for cheerleaders.

[KenC]

It's clear that you two have made the decision, for better or for worse, and nothing we say is going to change that.  You are both adults and have the right to choose your own lives. Pointing out the pitfalls may be good for others in the beginning stages of thinking about finding a wife with a big age gap, but for you this needed to have been done 11 years ago.  We here are all certainly wishing for the best for you. We would love to see one of those "exceptions" actually be an exception.  Just don't look for cheerleaders.

Scott,
Turbo's questions have been answered a hundred times over, he just doesn't like the answers and chooses not to understand them.  He must think I make this sh!t up?  Believe me, I have lived the answers I give, they are not theories, but real life experiences.
KenC