SCAM & DECEIT gets more refined - READ THIS PLEASE!!!

[Jazzyclassy]

I agree with Sandro and one more thing , I am very astonished how can you seriously believe that such women like her will ever do anything bad towards themselves hahaha am sorry it is even ridiculous , she would better do something bad towards you than to herself, she is too much selfish and loves all those make up and clothing and such life to die so young, I would never believe such girl like her about committing suicide- it is just nonsense , do not allow her manipulations to spoil your life really , wake up finally !

[Hub]

As she said in her message, the money is gone and it would be hard for her to earn it back to give to you.  So that part is believable, in the case where she really would like to give it back to you.

However, I noted that she never at all mentioned the ring.  Unless she sold the ring, then it should be possible for her to send it back.  But I doubt she really intends to since she never even mentioned it.

But let's say she wanted and intends to send the ring back.  In my experience, it is a real crap shoot sending anything back and forth between here and FSU.  Plus there is the feature of custom duties, etc.  Between custom duties, any possible insurance costs, the shipping, etc., I am not sure how much you would net from the procedure.

I think you said you had some contacts there.  Maybe best bet would be if she would give the ring to them and they hold onto it for you.  But can you really trust your contacts with the ring?

[ScottinCrimea]

Hub, my experience has been completely different from yours.  I have sent things back and forth between the US and Ukraine numerous times and not once have I had a problem with anything being lost, being held for customs, etc.  I may just be lucky, but none of my US friends in Ukraine have had any problems either.  As far as trusting contacts, if it is a friend, I would trust them more than the typical US friend as a true Russian friend is the best kind you can have.

[jb]

as a true Russian friend is the best kind you can have.

Hear, hear ~!

[catzenmouse]

Rookie,

 The very best thing you can do now is to drop any thought about her from your mind. Just put it all behind you. Take it for what it was. A bullet dodged and a lesson learned. Sorry that it had to be the hard way but sometimes that is the only way we learn.

 Give yourself some time to refocus your life and thoughts and then forge ahead. Keep the fantasies at bay, reality check often, and don't excuse the red flags when they come up.

Good luck!
 Ken

[SANDRO43]

As she said in her message, the money is gone and it would be hard for her to earn it back to give to you.  So that part is believable, in the case where she really would like to give it back to you.

Not quite, she could use her next scammee's money, if she REALLY wanted .

[Jazzyclassy]

About sending the ring back to you it can be really problematic I do not know how it is in the Ukraine but in Moscow you can not send golden things from Russia, well if the ring is golden of course well no matter any kinda natural mineral can not be sent just like that with any possible post office, I wanted to send my boy long time ago silver necklace and they told that it was forbiden and when my boy came to visit me I just presented it to him and he wore it  so that is how he took it away from Russia to the UK

[pk-uk]

Only just joined, but this story took me by surprise in a way - I'm not sure why.

I first visited the FSU some eight years ago.  I had been toying with the idea but the trigger was a really cheap deal to Moscow.  So, having arranged the trip, I contacted a number of girls to meet up with to act as "tourist guides" for me, with the promise that if we hit it off I'd come back for a longer stay.

One girl seemed really keen to meet me to the extent that she even rang me at home (at 0400!!) before I left, to ensure I really was going to meet her. However, almost the very first thing that she told me after she said hello was that she was already engaged to an American, but wanted to met me in case the K-1 fell through.

Of course, it could have been no-way-on-first-sight, but then again, she knew I was meeting others and the deal was that we didn't have to spend any significant time i.e. more than a couple of hours, together if neither of us wanted to.

As it turned out we spent two of my five days together.  All in all she seemed a really nice girl.  She had a car and drove me around the sights, made sure that we ate at nice places within my price-range (which was modest) and even bought drinks.  She posed for pictures together and treated me like her "man" i.e. walked arm-in-arm.

Of course, we talked about her engagement.  Her problem seemed to be that she thought it all a bit of a lottery and the chances of failing  to get a visa quite high, even though she had Russian friends in the States.  She also seemed to be a bit distrustful of her fiancee in general.  Of course, I didn't know any more of the real situation than I do of your case.  Neither did I really know what life had thrown at her before. But I did wonder.  It did seem, from what she was saying, that there was a big area of uncertainty for those in relationships with Americans - or even international relationships in general? - and hedging bets might be one way of coping with it.

Of course, as I say, this was eight years ago and maybe circumstances are different.  But I guess we never really know what is going through other peoples minds or why even apparently nice people do these kind of things.

Yours is a sad case, Rookie, and I do feel for you.  However, life ain't easy at times and although we learn from experiences, it is dangerous to lose faith and become untrustful.  Easier said than done, maybe, but I wish you well in recovering from this and the sooner you can cut your losses and move on in life the better, I always find.

Paul

[FSUrookie]

Hello to all! It's been a while, but I wanted to update this thread regarding recent developments..... I have talked to a number of newbies off the forum board, so I know my thread has been somewhat informative to many. I am glad to help, and it is good to know that my bad experience has helped others.
Well, as I said I would, I have moved forward with my life and begun searching for other FSU women to date and begin a new relationship with.
First, let me briefly summarize the last events with my former fiancee Maria.....
To close things out, I took the approach that I felt comfortable with. I sent Maria a letter than was down to earth, and like a gentleman. I gave Maria an opportunity to respond and show some sign of caring or remorse. Maria did apologize, however her reply was FAR short of what would have saved anything we had. So now, I feel great. I have had my say, and I have moved on. While me and Maria are now at peace with each other (I do receive an occasional SMS & email from her), our relationship IS and has been over for a while. I truly believe the only reason Maria Ryzhkova changed her tune with me was because she feared having a bad name and reputation in Kharkov. In my opinion Maria was not really a scammer, but she was a typical example of some of the women that you can find in many cities in Ukraine (Manipulative & users). It was pretty pitiful when Maria tried to change the direction of blame to me and make me feel like I was the one at fault! In some ways she was very manipulative, and in other ways she was truly a "taker" NOT a "giver". It was ironic to see in a recent email from Maria, that she was still worried about me coming after her for the money I gave her for school. She wrote on Sept. 26: "As for my study, its really difficult to study at the new university, but I try! And I ll try to find work, because I need money to buy food and other things. Because I've payed for the university."
So, it seems a good idea to have your girl "checked out" if your relations become serious with your FSU girls. Investigation agencies are actually expanding and opening new offices because there is so much scam and bribery in Ukraine.

The bottom line;
Some other things that I have learned (in addition to what I posted earlier in this forum thread);
1) Dating any FSU woman brings with it risk, but dating an FSU woman in the 18 - 23ish range brings with it many women who are truly not serious for marriage to a foreign man, especially American. Of course, it needs to be noted that there are exceptions to any rule. If the woman has a child for example, these women often mature sooner and are more stable.
3) AH, AT LAST, in my latest search, I HAVE finally found several women that are COMPLETELY different than the other FSU women that I dated previously.
Why? Because before, I only used agencies (even 1 honest agency). And the honest agency that I used "strongly" reccommended Maria to me. OH WELL!
I will note again; THERE ARE A FEW HONEST AGENCIES IN UKRAINE & RUSSIA, including Tver & Kherson and some others, but the majority of agencies are like a mine field from WW2. Many agency girls have a "Wine & Dine Me" attitude and come to expect this on their dates with American men. This is a sad truth. But I will also repeat again, for the newbies, that there are good & bad women at all agencies, and this is not always the fault of the agency.
BACK to my initial point:
THERE ARE GOOD WOMEN LEFT IN UKRAINE! Newbies do not be discouraged, but if you open up your search, you WILL find someone that is in your league and does not present all the problems that you read about on this board.
Of course, dating & marrying any FSU women will cost some money, and it IS a high-risk journey, but you can minimize the risks by looking on more of the right places and looking for the right things in the letters that you receive from the FSU women.
1) Follow the 10 commandments on here.
2) Try Bride.RU
I have met some WONDERFUL women on Bride.RU, and I have met several women that have sincerity that I have NEVER seen before in any FSU women!
3) Try placing a classified ad. This is my "plan B".
Once again, talk to other guys that have ACTUALLY used this method. You will be pleasantly surprised!
Let me caution here again; of course, there are NO GUARNATEES in dating FSU women, but you CAN MINIMIZE YOUR RISKS.
Listen to the advise on these forums. Do research. Use many avenues; ie; Bride.RU. FreePersonals.ru, classified ads, maybe a few girls from honest agencies like Tver Angels, etc... and you will find much better results!

Ok, now regarding my Bride.RU search;
Here you will see that there is MORE success in numbers;
1) I sent out about 55 total "Intro" letters with a photo of me a month ago.
2) So far I have received about 30 replies.
2) 5 of the replies were definite scammers.
3) About 5 were borderline possible scammers.
4) 15 letters were very interesting.
5) And 5 letters were very good (very sincere / genuine sounding)
6) I wrote the 5 that seemed sincere, and a good thing has developed with 1 of the 5 women, so I am focusing on her. To be honest, the girl that I am presently writing more seriously was not one of the initial choices that I thought would develop into something, so it goes to show you just never know!

Now, to conclude on Maria, this was a big mistake in my life, and I over-relied on the "strong" reccommendation of an honest agency owner (AllBeautiful.net), and I turned away from using better judgement. So to those just starting out, OPEN up your searches, and do not just rely on agencies. You will hear from many women that they do not like using agencies, though certainly there are some good women at the agencies. My present "serious FSU candidate" woman (she is 27 and with a 7 year old boy), is like night and day different from Maria. In my 2 years of travelling to Ukraine & Russia I have never heard or met a woman like my present FSU woman. Believe me, like many of the veterans on this forum have said, when you meet a truly sincere FSU women, there will be no doubts, and she will be unlike most of the garbage and nightmare scenarios that you read about in these forums.

That's all for now....
THANKS to BillyB for all his great advice and the scoop on Bride.RU, and thanks to Rich, Groov, and others for more good advice.... Also, thanks to THOR who helped me bust my former fiancee dating another man while we were engaged. This whole thing has truly changed my life for the better!!!!

[Gator]

FSUrookie,

It sounds as if you have recovered well from your mistake, and you seem much wiser now.   Your game plan sounds like a good one (but do have a Plan B please).

Your comments about All Beautiful Agency in Kharkov are interesting.  I had a good experience with that agency and found Helen very helpful.  Sometimes the women can deceive the agency.  I was involved with one RW for over a year and used a highly trustworthy interpreter for our communication.  She had a few woman-to-woman private chats with her.  In effect, the interpreter felt in the end that she was deceived by the RW.  She apologized, but what can you do.

Anyway, good luck!

[neo]

Well looks like you got away with it FSURookie.

older and wiser, but to be fair about your materalistic american women comment, russians can be far more materailistic than even their western sisters, i've met russian girls who would prise the gold fillings out of a corpse before ringing the undertaker.

the FSU is a new world economy now, they are fuelled by increasing wealth from energy sales and they are learning to spend with the best of them, vogue, cosmo et al now have a frim grip on the FSU young women so finding an old fashioned home loving girl is becoming as difficut as anywhere.

Women are women the world over, there are good and there are bad, don't believe the agency Bull and hype.

for the rookies: forget everything youve been told by agencies about russian women, there is simply only one reason to go to the FSU to meet women is that there are much, much, much more young single women available there than there are in teh west. its simply a numbers game, more choice means better odds of picking someone who is right for you as opposed to a "all you could land" domestic solution - but dont go thinking RW have some sort of magical property that absolves you from worrying about her motives - as FSU rookie has found to his cost they are all capable of lying, cheating and stealing.

good luck to you.

[BillyB]

2) Try Bride.RU
I have met some WONDERFUL women on Bride.RU, and I have met several women that have sincerity that I have NEVER seen before in any FSU women!

Actually the key is to write many women and find the ones sincerely interested in you no matter what site you use as long as the site doesn't have a bad reputation. FSUrookie, we've talked outside the forum and I have better knowledge of a potential gem you're corresponding with now. I hope you enlighten others of how sincere women write letters. Since telling my story on these forums, some guys have PM'd me to tell me they've done what I did and one guy said he wrote more ladies that I. Much have found their gem and most likely the woman wouldn't have been a choice of theirs if they wrote few to begin with. When writing many, a guy is sure to have many women interested in him. When you have choices in life, you can be more selective. You can easily walk away from women who do not give you the effort you give them or does not give you the courtesy in answering all your questions. You will also be able to spot scammers and dead beat women quickly and you will not feel the need to rescue them from poverty because you will have so much attention from other women that you have no time to waste on women who have issues in their life or is playing games with you.

One guy told me the quality correspondence he had from his fiancee was so sincere with so much dedication to him that if he did not get married to the woman for whatever reason, he would not settle for anything less than the same type of commitment from a woman if he searched again. Pertaining to correspondence, she raised the bar. I feel the same way and I'm sure you do to now that you KNOW how a sincere woman, with genuine interest in you, writes.

Your thread is unique because it shows the growing pains a guy could go through in this endeavor but hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel. You seem to be a nice guy with sincere intentions and although your actions and decisions to get involved with your former fiancee wasn't the best, you learned quickly and got back on your feet and now you quite possibly found a gem. I hope you can tell the folks here on what makes the current correspondence your having with one lady stand above the rest. I'm sure a lot of newbies are following this thread and can learn something to benefit themselves.

FSUrookie, one thing we talked about, that we learned from the women at bride.ru, is that there are lots of losers and whacked out men writing letters to them. If you're halfway decent, modest, normal and average/decent looking, you will stand out above the rest and will not have much difficulty getting a sincere RW's attention. Although many think losers exclusively look for women overseas, this is not true. There are many local women on Craigslist that tell local guys if they respond to their profile, do not send pics of their dicks. Yeah, it's that bad out there.

[FSUrookie]

Good points NEO. And yes Billy, my present FSU woman is truly a GEM! In general, (does not apply to all of course) It seems as Ukrainian & Russian women have become more "westernized" and Ukraine has become a more "democratic" society, many joke that the FSU women have become more corrupted and "manipulative & materialistic" like many of their American women counterparts.
A GOOD POINT to make here: THERE IS (virtually) NO MIDDLE CLASS IN UKRAINE!!! Some Ukrainian women want to make and have the money that we make in America, but they do not want to work for it, they want a free handout! This is often very true! (No offense to all the good women in the FSU) And when you have older/richer Americans coming over and doing stupid things (like I did with Maria - though I am not rich) pouring money into a young FSU girl's pocket, (as my translator from one honest agency put it; "stupid idiots thinking that they can buy love, and these same Americans actually brag about buying their FSU woman an apartment!") What has happenned here in the FSU is that the playing field has become lopsided and very unpredictable. Anyway, back to the main story.....

So, THE REAL QUESTION IS; ARE THERE REALLY ANY GENUINE & SINCERE "AVAILABLE" WOMEN LEFT IN UKRAINE? Or have the "rivers of gold" dried up? It seems that I have finally found my answer to that question.....

Well..... The last few months have been life-changing for me. And, my entire FSU search which began a little over 2 years ago, finally seems to be on course!
For all the newbies out there, I want to let you know that any normal, decent-looking and sincere stable guy CAN be successful in his search for a GENUINE & SINCERE FSU woman!
So here's my crazy story, as briefly as I can tell it.....
About 3 years ago, first out of curiosity, I randomly sent out some letters thru what was then the "Confidential Connections" agency. I was mildly interested, but then after writing what seemed like a sincere lady (at what I now know was a bad agency), our communications ended, because she could not get her husband to release custody of their child. So, there was no point in continuing correspondence with this lady. So, I let things go for a few months, and then after searching for Russian / Ukrainian marriage agencies, I once again tried writing a few woman at the "Confidential Connections" agency (now UAladies under a new owner). Well, 2 years ago, I had absolutely no contacts, no connections or any "real" knowledge of the FSU dating scene. As I said, I was curious, and I had become tired of the "superficial" club dating scene here, and also frustrated with the fact that many of the decent-looking women that I had dated in America were very materialistic. Thus, I gave the FSU a try. Unfortunately, I was unaware at the time that "Confidential Connections" was to say the least, using "deceptive business practices", and I ended up writing letters for 6 months (of course too long) to what seemed to be a nice girl at the CC agency. I did the whole 9-yards. Sent her flowers, candy, bought English lessons thru the CC agency, etc, etc, etc... I even bought CC's Gold Hotel/meeting package for around $3000 at the time for about 10 days. So after investing over $5000, most of which went to the agency, I met with a 21 year old (agency mole) in Zhitomir. I was told that the girl was sincerely interested in me (Doctae from RWD dated the cousin of the girl I was dating), but the bottom line, she ended up being engaged to a local guy just after (or during) the time I visited her. After such a pile of garbage, and after learning what scams were going on in the industry, I was really, seriously going to toss in the towel on FSU dating. I said to myself, all the articles on the CC website and other similar sites was all hype. One CC agency translator liked me so much, that she began to tell me that alot of what I had heard was "HYPE". She said it was very Uncommon to see an age gap of more than 15 years. Even the girl I dated broke down and told me that there were married women and paid models working for CC. The agency translator even said that she was being nicer to me than she usually is to clients from America & Europe, because I was a nice & decent guy. She said there were many 50 & 60 year old guys trying to marry 20 year-olds on their first week in Ukraine, and that they even brought the K-1 VISA paperwork with them for the girls (that they had never met in person) for them to sign. She said many of the Americans that came to Ukraine to use their agency were "rich" guys thinking that they could buy love. Another agency translator that I had a talk with told me that she thought it was like nothing (no big deal) for an American to come to Ukraine and plop down $5000 on a hotel package. She said "you Americans make that much money in one month, and It is like peanuts to yous!" I was amazed when I heard all this, and when I got back to America, I thought this whole FSU thing is the biggest pile of crap that I had ever seen! So for about 6 months, I regrouped, dated some local women, and then met a guy, who later became a good friend, at an airport on one of my trips to visit my relatives in Italy. Well, sure enough, he had dated and married a Ukrainian woman, and he was happily married for 5 years. He was 37 and she was 26. So, after regrouping, I re-entered the FSU dating scene in 2006. I dated a small handfull of women from a variety of marriage agencies, but most of the women turned out to be Pro-daters & Gold-diggers. I did meet a few "nice" women, but I wasn't really attracted to them. I must add that even as of October 2006, I only then just began to read some of the FSU forums while researching the whole FSU scene further. Well, after much research, and finally reading some of the forum threads, I listened to the advice a few guys on the RWD forum and a couple of other forums, and I setup some dates with several women from the "All Beautiful" agency in Kharkov Ukraine, in November  2006. Well, as you all now know, Maria, my former fiancee, was my first date, and I never looked back. I then spent the next 10 months dating Maria Ryzhkova from Kharkov, and became engaged to her in April 2007. The rest of course is history.
Finally, I decided, one last time, I was determined to find that All-Elusive "Sincere & Genuine - family-oriented - traditional - etc etc" woman that I first went to Ukraine & Russia to find 2 years ago.
I went thru numerous forum threads on RWD and other sites. I talked to friends that I had met on RWD off-board. I called other friends that I had met & networked with in Ukraine & Russia. I talked to my translator / guide friends. Finally, I decided to send out a batch of 55 into letters and some follow-up letters to FSU women posted on Bride.RU. Certainly there are other sites similar to Bride.RU, but I got the most for money there and proceeded. My plan was to write as many FSU women as possible. Perhaps even throw in a few agency girls and & a classified ad for a Plan "B".
Well, I was very pleased with the results. Finally, I found a FSU woman that is SINCERE & GENUINE!! After almost giving up and throwing in the towel 2 years ago, I found the pot of gold barried deep in the mountain mine shaft!
What changed my bad fortune?
1) Focusing on the 24 - 30 age group. (My present FSU girl is 27, with a child)
TO NOTE: SCAMMERS COME IN ALL SHAPES, SIZES AND AGES!!!
I received one letter from a 30 year old woman with a child, and all she talked about was her dream to start a perfume business! (give me a break!)
2) Avoiding (for the most part) any woman under 25. (out of 55 girls that I initially wrote, 52 of them were over 25 and under 35, and 3 were between the ages of 22 - 24)
2) I Included women with a child (some of the nicest women in the group!)
3) I stayed away (for the most part) from the "Supermodel" types, even though my present FSU girl is certainly attractive.
4) I deleted letters from any women that mentioned money, starting a business, travelling, or that avoided answering my questions, etc in their letters.
5) By sending out a larger number of letters, I thus increased my odds of finding that small handfull of decent women that are DEFINITLEY out there in the FSU.

So newbies, here is are some important points;

Letters & Dates with FSU "TAKERS" (scammers, pro-daters, gold-diggers, manipulative, materialistic): After a few letters; always crying how bad they have it, how they have sick relatives, an old computer, a bad cell phone. They make you feel guilty about anything. They like to frequent fancy restaurants. They go to the most expensive discos. They manipulate into having you feel the need to buy them English lessons. They want to travel all over the world (even thought they have never been outside their home country!) They want to see how big of a home you have. They are impressed by your monetary and materialistic possesions. They often use & send you "Model-like" studio photos. They eventualy ask you for money to help them start their own business in Ukraine (once again...looking for the free handout...they don't understand what it means to earn your way and work hard to get to the top....partly a result of too many "rich" Americans dumping money into their laps).
As a man, you are always trying to please these women. You can never please them enough. They want more and more from you, and give little in return, except maybe you get to take nice photo with them and brag "look at my hot girl from Europe"!

Letter & Dates with FSU "GIVERS" (nice, honest, sincere, family-oriented & often more traditional): (My present FSU girl does most of what is listed here!)
They want to please YOU (the man), and they want to make you happy! They want to cook you meals. They talk about having an honest, decent, sincere, genuine man. They talk about making the home a cozy place. They talk about how they like your "inner" qualities, though chemistry still plays a part in the big picture. They are willing to accept any "normal looking" man who has a good heart. They do not care about if the man is rich, or how much money the man spends on them, but they only care that the man is reliable and can provide (the essentials) for his family. They go out of their way to please you. They get up at 4:30 AM Ukraine time to send you SMS messages to wish you sweet dreams (night time in USA time). They buy their own English books to learn English on their own! They never ask you for money or even hint at it! They send you "normal" photos that are taken in their natural surroundings. They send you photos of family (brothers, sisters, parents, their children, etc.). When you ask them about gifts you should bring them, they respond; "As to gifts for me, the best gift you will be - YOU:-))"! When you are coming to their country, some even offer to come to Kiev to meet you, and then travel to their home city! If they are divorced, they don't blame the entire failure of their previous marriage on their husband. The sincere women that have children, love you to death when you accept & love their child as your own! You will even find a few good Christian women in the bunch, but it seems more so in western Ukraine. Many are willing to to try new things like snowboarding with you ;-) even though they have never skied or snowboarded a day in their life.

I know alot of this seems pretty obvious to many of us who have been on the forums for a while, and maybe not so obvious for newbies, however I can tell you from my own bad experiences and decisions, that it is VERY EASY to get caught up in the moment with any FSU girl, especially with what one would consider a "hottie".
BUT, there is hope, as you can see from my thread. Yes, I was an idiot, I admit it! I thought I had planned it our very well, and yes I did rely (to an extent) on the opinion of an honest agency. However, as you can see from my ordeal, anyone anywhere can get jammed. So if you have a lot of money at your disposal, you are even more susceptible to losing thousands of dollars. Thankfully, I had a budget, so there were some limits for me, and of course, Maria could have jammed me for even more money!

The bottom line is this:
If you feel as if you are trying to please your FSU girl with every move, chances are good you have the wrong girl. On the other hand, if you are amazed and at awe at how your FSU girl will do almost anything (sorry that does not include the perverts out there in the world) to please you and make you happy, you probably have an FSU GEM!
YES, to answer my original question;
THERE ARE SINCERE & GENUINE WOMEN IN THE FSU!
If you take the right approach, use common sense, and listen to some of the advice of guys like BillyB and others on RWD, YOU WILL EVENTUALLY FIND THE RIGHT FSU WOMAN FOR YOU!!!
Thanks again to all!!!!
I was simply amazed but pleasantly surprised to find my present FSU GEM! Of course, there is more ahead in the journey, but I am truly looking forward to meeting her in December!!! 

*Newbies Remember; USE all available resources. Talk to men that are happily married to FSU women here in America. And also remember, that though common sense rules apply to almost any FSU dating situation, EVERY FSU girl can bring about their own unique circumstances. So do not take any one rule or opinion and apply it to every woman!
*Also to note: when I asked my present FSU girlfriend about the letters that she received on Bride.RU (before she pulled her profile), she told me that most of the men were jerks, perverts, only looking for sex, and not the serious marriage / family types. Some even sent her pornographic pictures!!  So IF you are a decent - normal guy, with good intentions, you can find a WONDERFUL FSU woman!!!!

[Mir]

My present FSU girl does most of what is listed here

And how much face time have you spent with her to know that she does all that you feel should be done by the right woman?

[groovlstk]

I was simply amazed but pleasantly surprised to find my present FSU GEM! Of course, there is more ahead in the journey, but I am truly looking forward to meeting her in December!!! 

Great post from someone who finally sees the FSU dating landscape for what it is.

That is, until I read the quote above.

FSURookie, please tell me that you have met this woman in person and that you're not declaring success and praising her great character after a couple of weeks/months of emails and phone calls!

[Gator]

FSURookie,

Others are telling you not to fall in love with a photo.  Let me tell you why this could be a problem. 

You are placing too high expectations on your meeting.  You may be greatly disappointed if she does not equal your expectations.  WORSE, your expectations are so high that you may have a blind spot AGAIN. You need a touch skepticism as well so that you do not fly above reality AGAIN. 

I like your words:

Of course, there is more ahead in the journey,

You wrote them.  Do not forget them.  Keep telling yourself to slow down. 

How much do you know about this woman?  Would you care to elaborate on why you think this woman is different? 

P. S.  When you do go to Ukraine, I wish you a glorious meeting. I hope this woman treats you sincerely and thinks as much about you as you do about her.

[FSUrookie]

Hi Gator! Thanks for the feedback! Sometimes RWD reminds me of the water cooler at work. First someone gets a cut on their finger, by the time the story gets to the front door, the person has chopped off a finger.
I never said I was in love, however after numerous emails, SMS and phone calls, I am truly "interested" in my latest FSU woman.
Yes, we shall see how things progress. My emotions are fine, and my wallet is under lock and key. We shall see how the chemistry part goes in December. As for differences, well I pointed many out in my previous post. Writing style / phone conversation much different than it ever was with Maria, that's for sure!
Your input is always appreciated Gator! Thanks again.
Oh, and Groov, I'll restate my previous quote; "She certainly APPEARS to be very genuine & sincere". We shall see...
Bottom line: Even if things don't work out with my new FSU woman, her letters, calls have raised my expectations for any future FSU women that I may encounter. And really this is not a bad thing, because I would rather be HAPPILLY SINGLE than UNHAPPILY MARRIED and miserable.... Thanks to all!

[ScottinCrimea]

FSURookie,
     I made some comments about your recent posts in another thread so I won't repeat them here.  I appreciate that you understand that everyone is here to help and our comments and questions are not meant to attack in any way but offer concerns and cautions.  I guess we're trying to protect you from yourself.  Continue to take it in the proper light and you'll be fine.

[FSUrookie]

Thanks again Scott.  I am taking it all in the proper light and I will be fine no matter what happens in December....

And as I mentioned in another thread....
My new FSU woman's letters and phone calls have simply "RAISED THE BAR" for me and what I NOW expect from an FSU woman or any woman for that matter.

[BillyB]

FSURookie, if I can see you in cyberspace, you're probably jumping up for joy based on how you been posting lately. Glad you're happy and on cloud nine but don't forget, you need to take your brains with you to Ukraine when you meet her and you still need to be able to walk away from her if things aren't right. Before my first visit to my fiancee, I told her that I'm  visiting her as a friend. She told me I'm such a careful man and I suspected she respected the fact I won't throw myself to any woman and I also suspect she tried harder for me.

Because we talked outside this forum, I have more knowledge on how your lady is acting towards you compared to other posters. She behaves like my fiancee and other's fiancees/girlfriends who PM'd me knowing exactly what I've been talking about after they've experienced the same correspondence from a sincere woman, who's into you mentally and physically. I suspect most men never receive that kind of correspondence. Now you know and you will never settle for less. FSURookie, your gal is into you and is willing to make an effort for you as much as you are making for her. It's a wonderful feeling when you find a woman like that.

Just last night a poster from Beverly Hills, who doesn't post much, called me and told me his fiancee finally arrive and thanked me from the bottom of his heart.  He said my story of writing many women and finding a gem in Uzbekistan inspired him to continue his search as he was ready to give up after many trips to Ukraine. He found his RW, coincidently living in Uzbekistan from bride.ru too and he wrote to even more women than I to find her. He went to Ukraine over 10 times yet never experienced a woman so sincere and devoted to him as the one he has now. We kept in touch throughout his correspondence and journey with the lady and he too had the same quality correspondence as I did with my fiancee. I knew he had a gem there just as you do FSUrRookie and told him to choose her over another to visit. He did and he's very happy with his lady.

The biggest key to all of this is to admit to oneself, no matter how smart we are, we aren't capable of choosing the right woman if we write/associate with one or a few ladies. Why put limitations on ourselves to finding the right lady? We may never find her at all. By writing lots of women, you will have increased your odds in finding a woman that gives as much effort as you do for her, who is compatible with you to where everything clicks, who is family oriented, has sincere hopes and dreams of finding a good husband, and who has the hots for you physically.

FSURookie, as you mentioned to me, your lady was ready to give up on bride.ru and the international dating scene because of the amount of crazy men out there that turned her off but now she's thrilled to have found you and even started taking English lessons on her own without asking for any money from you. She too is motivated to know you and wants to communicate more clearly with you when you arrive to see her for the first time. When you visit her, and you two become exclusive, then you should help her out with the English lessons. You will find she's probably a responsible person who has her life in order. You do not need to buy her an apartment or spend massive amounts of money to win her heart like some men are doing. She will judge your conduct before she gives herself entirely to you.

For her son, I recommend taking some Bionicle toys made by Lego. It is a good toy boys his age like and it will allow you two to interact with him as this toy needs to be built.

I'll be one to read your trip report when it comes out.

[Jumper]

I find it great you shared your story to help inform guys.

i think the biggest glaring thing
,and what i HOPE newbies glean from these 12 pages,,

 was that you proposed to a stranger (and yes a young , immature and deceitful one)

its seems you met her for a week of dates with her friends.
then you met her again mostly with her friends along as well.
or at least giving you advise..on what ring to get etc.

granted her english was poor so you needed her friend along to help translaste.
but at that second meeting you proposed?
you felt that sure of someone with limited ablity to communicate ,and that young?

and from your story we get the impression at  90% to 100% of your face time was at restuarants or events with her friend or friends present..
in other words a few hours or so of half a day spent together?

maybe you left alot out, but i doubt it..
as you've been very open..
and nothing described,or in the emails,  gives the impression you guys went about spending the day or night together..at all?
or exploring each other metally, physically, emotionally.
in email you have no real conversations..
you stating that shared alot of laughs is,, umm,,basic dating 101.

thats not even past initial first or second date "dating"


you dated for 10 months,, but did you really?
this is still floating down a river of self denial.

you got taken, and anyone could be.
but you certainly exponentially increased the odds by simply not knowing the person..
you couldnt know her menatlity of scammer,,if you dint know here any better than these meetings and basic emails..noone could tell anything much about her that way...

a thousand SMS's that say "i miss you too" between a 41 and 19 yo,,
isnt going to be considered learning much about each other..
and with those ages.. you would REALLY need to learn about each other..

a million calls, deep meaningful letters something ,anything, of substance..

a few real visits with one on one time spent really earnestly finding out about each other..
wouldnt hurt at all.


i know youve moved on.. (good thing)
and i'm beating a dead horse..
but new guys need to really evaluate
that it was a 19 yo  girl..that you hardly knew.

if she was from your home town ,odds are the same result. heartache,
but you probably wouldnt date this girl in your home town.
she'd likely be too immature, you wouldnt be intereste dand she probably woyldnt be either.
and this is sharing a common language.

i guess the whole thing i'm trying to point out is..

newbies do not try and make a situation that isnt plausible at home,

somehow miraclously  *work* in a *quicky* long distance relationship in the FSU,with a woman you cant even just simply go out on a date with to learn about them firsthand..

you really need to KNOW who your are proposing to,
or at least to the very best that you can,lots of calls, lots of trips if neeeded..
 do what it takes to make that happen.
do not propose to a "date",even if she is 39

FSU rookie- you say the new RW ,
even though you havnt met her,,
has raised the bar..

i know i'm harsh ,but i sure hope so! 
you shared a lot of letters,
maria dint communicate anything really of any substance,!!!
almost any RW  can do much better,
if even slightly interested in you..(the real you)
and most scammers can do far far better..

IF a RW has some interest,
 she WILL ask a LOT about you...about the situation,, your views on life and family.. finding out *who* you are..
this is long  before she considers marriage....
and long before either of you would have any idea wether you actually have a spark together.
 
::::sorry rant off:::::


i just see advice being handed out on
*how to better your odds*

and its got some merit,
 but is fatally flawed if the roots or basics arent covered.


and thought somethings needed to be more clear !
that at the root of the whole thing its up to the guy to be realistic.

FIRST before proposing..
 do you know her? its a yes/no question.
you have to get past that one ..really past it, realistically past it..

long before you can decide the
 if you love her,if she loves you..ones..
THEN even if you love each other comes the really tough ones of
if you are compatable?, and would make a good marriage..


this is a road..with more than a few pitfalls..
it can be incredibly rewarding..but man you do need to do your due diligence,and pay your dues..

Kind of *pseudo-dating*  a few times ..a very young girl..that doesnt speak your language , just does not cover even the basics.


I wish everyone luck..

one of your resident OMB's..apologizes in advance for the harsh comments..
they are honestly meant to help..

[Misha]

I really doubt this is a scam, but it does not seem like much of a relationship either. You say that you are not really in love with her and that you have back-up plans, which does not indicate that you feel much for her other than friendship. And she is making plans to one day go to Canada, and these plans you write do not include you.

Also, I can't figure out where you are coming from. You mention that you were in Turkey, then the United States, and then you write that she wants to come "to Canada" which implies that you are from Canada.  So which country is your country of citizenship? If you are from the USA and she wants to immigrate to Canada, that won't really make for a good long-term relationship unless you were to immigrate as well.

It seems to me that both of you are very young, good friends (maybe a bit more), but neither of you really look like you are that enthralled by the other (correct me if I am wrong). If that is the case, enjoy it while it lasts as both of you will move on at some point. Or is it that you or she are hoping for a bit more?

[AnastassiaAsh]

This is Jazzy's post to FSUrookie after he posted his love story with Masha and their photos in the age thread a couple of days ago.What I am trying to say:men here tend to judge young girls giving advices in age gaps and other polls and call them immature but every time they post their "sad final story" it looks like that sad final was obvious to those "immature girls" giving "immature" advices and the whole situation seemed to be strange to them from the very beginning but shocked men are still sitting and can't understand how that had happened to them, as that girl hadn't looked like a typical scammer at all...

I just can't even say better! This is the truth of all truths.

[Mishenka]

I have to agree with Anastassia, so true.

Another truth, the biggest problem we face as American men in FSU relationships,  are misunderstandings because of language barriers and not knowing the culture of your partners country. Women are not out there to lie and deceive. They will sometimes use a wrong word to express themselves and it comes off as looking like a scammer or uneducated person.  We all expect the same level of English from every Russian woman and this is never the case. We are all so different.  We need to take our time and give each other a chance to explain what we mean.  It helps to use the right words but even speaking the same language we have misunderstandings and fail to communicate.

[ScottinCrimea]

I can't count the number of times I could have taken offense or assumed wrong about my wife if I had taken her English words literally.  There are just going to be a lot of "Did she really say what I think she said?" moments.  I've learned that anytime she says something that seems to be out of character for her I need to ask for clarification.  Typically I will find that it was just poor word choice or a cultural difference in concepts.  Knowing even a little Russian helps immensely because you can recognize mistakes they might make in translation from Russian to English such as poor word choice.  I also keep in mind that the same thing happens in reverse when I use a poor choice of words that can be interpreted in several ways, not all good.