Money changes everything

[Turboguy]

Ken, I am sorry if I was not clear.   I was saying that in the total number of USCIS, K-1 applications for all countries my best guess was that there were at least 5000 who would have problems meeting the minimum requirements and would need a cosponsor.    I will agree that we get few here and my guess would be that Russia as a source country would have a smaller percentage needing a cosponsor that applicants from other countries.   I do think the average income here is higher than average for this persuit but that too is just a guess with no facts to back it up.

I did not see the statistics there but towards the bottom of the forum is a regional chat section.  I do my best to invite guys from there here so they can get a better chat but if you look at the size of it compared to the rest of the world it does create the impression that Russia is small in the K-1 scheme of things but that is very unscientific.  

I do agree that there are a lot of people post there particularly in the K-1 section that seem like they would be lucky if they could spell their name correctly on a K-1 ap.   Some of it really cracks me up and some of it really  makes you wonder about people.   Yes, I think they get more than their share of trolls there too.  

[BC]

And I just wonder why the minimum is so low...what is USCIS thoughts are based on? What is the minimum anyway right now? 15K? Also what would happen if the minimum is lifted to 30-50K? Seems like there will be more successful marriages and happy women overall? Am I right? What do you all guys think? Interesting...

It is pretty much the same here.  I think that thoughts are that governments should not discriminate by income levels, but do have the authority to enforce a policy where the beneficiary can assume a minimum standard of living, thus using figures just above the poverty levels.

BC,
This may shock you, but  fall into this category.  But it all depends on the definition of "worked things out" as most of my courting was done this side of the pond. As is my MO, I did things a little different than the norm.   If you are only considering the travel costs and visas to get to America, I am certainly in that category.
KenC

Ken, travel and visa about the same here, but may I submit that our 'shoestrings' were quite flexible, allowing marriage to flourish without undue financial hardship and allowed for those famous 'follow on' costs and a relatively decent lifestyle?

[KenC]

KenC, what do you think I should advise to the women and men I help - the best (reasonable) would be if he earns how much or has how much savings? What answer is reasonable do you think? It is clear to me that that minimum is out of the question...

Boy, put me on the spot here!

My opinion would be that you first have to consider the geographic location of where the man lives.  It takes a lot more income to support living in NY City, LA, and just about any major metropolitan city than it would less expensive locals.  So a guy in Beaver Falls would need less income than a guy from Manhatten.

When considering the ratio of income to savings, the lower the income, the higher the savings needs to be.  Disposable income is what matters here.  The money to cover the costs has to come from some where!  Without getting too deep into anyone's finances, which I am sure you do not want to do, I think you better off telling everyone up front how much it is going to cost.  I think $20K is the bare bones minimum to get started.  I would also caution them that there will be many additional costs after the woman arrives too.  Think about an additional $10K as a minimum.  So I agree with BC's lower level of around $30K.

Unlike Turbo, I have not seen a lot of success from guys at the lower income levels.  What I have seen is under financed men taking short cuts (like one week wonders) that ultimately insure failure in the long run.
KenC

[BC]

KenC, what do you think I should advise to the women and men I help - the best (reasonable) would be if he earns how much or has how much savings? What answer is reasonable do you think? It is clear to me that that minimum is out of the question...

Nastya,

Not trying to step on toes, but the very bottom line in my book would be to ask your customer how he plans to finance this venture.  If he says he has cash venture capital he can afford to eventually loose if things go south then fine, go for it.  If he pulls out a wad of credit cards and says he can get a loan, refinance his home or otherwise 'pull it off' then forget it.  Also remember 'time is money' and the investment in time in my experience is great.

[Admin]

Boy, put me on the spot here!

My opinion would be that you first have to consider the geographic location of where the man lives.  It takes a lot more income to support living in NY City, LA, and just about any major metropolitan city than it would less expensive locals.  So a guy in Beaver Falls would need less income than a guy from Manhatten.

When considering the ratio of income to savings, the lower the income, the higher the savings needs to be.  Disposable income is what matters here.  The money to cover the costs has to come from some where!  Without getting too deep into anyone's finances, which I am sure you do not want to do, I think you better off telling everyone up front how much it is going to cost.  I think $20K is the bare bones minimum to get started.  I would also caution them that there will be many additional costs after the woman arrives too.  Think about an additional $10K as a minimum.  So I agree with BC's lower level of around $30K.

Unlike Turbo, I have not seen a lot of success from guys at the lower income levels.  What I have seen is under financed men taking short cuts (like one week wonders) that ultimately insure failure in the long run.
KenC

Adding to Ken's comments - take a look at the FAQ on this same topic. It should provide useful information - here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=10

- Dan

[BillyB]

Alright, I'm coming back in here with boxing gloves on!

I too read vj for a little while and I got the impression many there do not have much money.

I once had a part time truck driver who used to work for me who just brought a woman over from the Phillipines when he started. He lived in a small 30 year old motor home and with no place to go since he was living outside of his dad's home in his motor home. How he afforded to bring her over, I don't know? But I do know that when she eventually worked two jobs, he quit on me to become a full time mom. He was making babies left and right and had 4 kids in five years. They are still married after 6 years.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Ok, these are all great answers, guys, thank you.

It gets very tricky with a pall. Can somebody help me?

What is the best question to ask:

1. What is the minimum salary that a man should have in your opinion that would be enough not to be too tight in the US?
2. What is the minimum salary AND savings that a man should have in your opinion that would be enough not to be too tight in the US? (then what is the best way to put ranges for both salary and savings?)
3. What is the minimum lump sum of money a man should have in your opinion that would be enough for this endeavour and not to be too tight living after in the US? And what should man do when that lump sum is done? How can he maintain the life style they are used to?

For example if a man earns let's say $30K a year but saved for several years $20K for this and used it wisely for the whole process, when she is here and they start living together, those $20K in some time will be gone too and they are back to a pretty mediocre living style for $30K a year!! Good start and tough ending... If he had saved $50K for the whole thing (which is kind of irrealistic with $30K a year?? - that would be much better but again in 3 years this money is gone.....in my opinion a man should have a constant good income...

[AnastassiaAsh]

Alright, I'm coming back in here with boxing gloves on!

I too read vj for a little while and I got the impression many there do not have much money.

I once had a part time truck driver who used to work for me who just brought a woman over from the Phillipines when he started. He lived in a small 30 year old motor home and with no place to go since he was living outside of his dad's home in his motor home. How he afforded to bring her over, I don't know? But I do know that when she eventually worked two jobs, he quit on me to become a full time mom. He was making babies left and right and had 4 kids in five years. They are still married after 6 years.

  Thank you, but no thank you.

[BC]

Thank you, but no thank you.

I think that qualifies as a one round KO. Judge raises Nastya's glove.

[beachcomber556]

As someone already stated, it all depends on the costs of daily living in their particular location.  Big city = BIG $$$$.  Plus, if she has champagne tastes, don't expect to satisfy her with Old Milwaukee and a bag of pretzels from the Dollar Store.  We get by, and Vika can be frugal, but I still hear it in her tone of voice that my current income of $65K is simply not acceptable and she expects me to improve this situation -- quickly.  Best advice, be realistic.  And fall in love with a woman who is also realistic, not materialistic.

[mischief]

An interesting story.  Lena dated a very successful photo model from Moscow.  The guy was obviously a total stud muffin and rich as hell. Italian sorts car, BMW motorcycle, total rich Moscow pad yada yada yada.  (Oh and just a couple of years older than Lena too!)  What's the problem?  This had to be a girl's wildest fantasy, right?  Well, he just wasn't strong enough to be her man. (As Cheryl Crow sings about)  Poor kid still aint over her to this day!

Most intelligent women do not want to marry a stud muffin... who wants to wonder if your husband would cheat on you one day... any woman needs to be cherished and admired at all times, not fading in the shade of a handsome fella... the picture perfect couples split very often and after short period of time... looking at a woman you can tell what husband she has... my husband is not rich but he treats me the way I want him to treat me - like a queen... he can be late for work staying with the boys and making sure I get enough sleep ... he comes home from work and takes care of our babies while I am working out at gym... little things like that... but I must tell after having two children I look better than ever... and my husband deserves all the credit...

[Daveman]

It's absolutely directly related to the types of personalities the two represent. 

Of course a lady living in the FSU should not lower herself from her lofty position of living with her parents in a two room flat, working 10+hrs a day, 6 days a week to have love and a family in a $75k house, a couple of non-Lexus cars, possibly working a part time job or even a normal 40hr job to help make ends meet.. yeah, I can see how that would be a terrible existence.  No woman should ever degrade herself with such a lowly existence and should worry entirely about being provided with a non mediocre lifestyle.

Whether it personally would apply to me or not is irrelevant, the concept of this whole trading "lifestyle" for "Love" is just wee bit nauseating. 

[KenC]

Alright, I'm coming back in here with boxing gloves on!

I too read vj for a little while and I got the impression many there do not have much money.

I once had a part time truck driver who used to work for me who just brought a woman over from the Phillipines when he started. He lived in a small 30 year old motor home and with no place to go since he was living outside of his dad's home in his motor home. How he afforded to bring her over, I don't know? But I do know that when she eventually worked two jobs, he quit on me to become a full time mom. He was making babies left and right and had 4 kids in five years. They are still married after 6 years.

No gloves necessary with posts like this, Billy,
But you bring a question to my mind.  Not to put down any one nationality, but is it possible that there is a difference in expectations between the PW and RW?  Just as there are different acceptable levels for RW from the poorer satellite countries than say a RW from Moscow.
KenC

[Admin]

Most intelligent women do not want to marry a stud muffin... who wants to wonder if your husband would cheat on you one day... any woman needs to be cherished and admired at all times, not fading in the shade of a handsome fella... the picture perfect couples split very often and after short period of time... looking at a woman you can tell what husband she has... my husband is not rich but he treats me the way I want him to treat me - like a queen... he can be late for work staying with the boys and making sure I get enough sleep ... he comes home from work and takes care of our babies while I am working out at gym... little things like that... but I must tell after having two children I look better than ever... and my husband deserves all the credit...

Mischief,

This is Off-Topic, but I just wanted to say ... WOW!

Your avatar is gorgeous! You look great - and we already know from your posts, you are charming and intelligent. Your husband is a lucky guy. Please remind him .... hourly. 

- Dan

[Admin]

No gloves necessary with posts like this, Billy,
But you bring a question to my mind.  Not to put down any one nationality, but is it possible that there is a difference in expectations between the PW and RW?  Just as there are different acceptable levels for RW from the poorer satellite countries than say a RW from Moscow.
KenC

We get a lot of the same kinds of reports about Filipinas over at Planet-Love that we see about RW here at RWD. Most are happily-married - some are the victims of a GCG. The only real difference I can think of is that US military was based in the PI for a very long time. As a result, many of the girls who want to come to the US already have extended family members already here. As with RW, some of the time that extended network is a good thing - and sometimes not.

FWIW

- Dan

[KenC]

Most intelligent women do not want to marry a stud muffin... who wants to wonder if your husband would cheat on you one day... any woman needs to be cherished and admired at all times, not fading in the shade of a handsome fella... the picture perfect couples split very often and after short period of time... looking at a woman you can tell what husband she has... my husband is not rich but he treats me the way I want him to treat me - like a queen... he can be late for work staying with the boys and making sure I get enough sleep ... he comes home from work and takes care of our babies while I am working out at gym... little things like that... but I must tell after having two children I look better than ever... and my husband deserves all the credit...

Hey, wait just a minute here!  You mean I am not a stud muffin?
 
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

Whether it personally would apply to me or not is irrelevant, the concept of this whole trading "lifestyle" for "Love" is just wee bit nauseating. 

Daveman, calm down, dear. Nobody is talking about 'trading'. We are discussing just this one aspect of it all, it doesn't mean that true love and devotion are forgotten among successful couples. It's ok, maybe we all need a reminder from time to time. Turbo always gives us a good one. 

[mischief]

Hey, wait just a minute here!  You mean I am not a stud muffin?
 
KenC

LOL... of course you are..

[AnastassiaAsh]

Hey, wait just a minute here!  You mean I am not a stud muffin?
 
KenC

Oh, no doubt, KenC, you are such a stud! With a little of that 'muffin' around your waist.    How about jumping into that picture with Lena on the beach?........I know, don't worry, those are some excellent 'love handles'.

[BillyB]

But you bring a question to my mind.  Not to put down any one nationality, but is it possible that there is a difference in expectations between the PW and RW?  Just as there are different acceptable levels for RW from the poorer satellite countries than say a RW from Moscow.
KenC

I would say there is a big difference between PW and RW on expectations. Of course both type of women want better for themselves but while moving to America and living in a small, but nice, apartment may be a huge upgrade for a PW, it may actually be a downgrade for a RW.

The Phillipinoes live in extremely poor conditions so living any place is most likely better than what they have. I have talked to a few guys who married PW abd they said if you look like a foreigner over there, you will be surrounded by women. If you walk into a mall, you'd be able to walk out of teh mall with two women, one on each arm. Any guy would like that kind of female attention! But reality is you'll never know if a woman's motives is truly sincere in wanting to know YOU as a person or just wanting to use you for a better life.

[Faux Pas]

Anastassia,

You seem to be equating money = successful relationships and happy marriages. Turbo had a pretty straight forward post earlier that made a lot of sense. I don't know figures but I am almost willing to bet money has ended as many marriages as lack of money. Money does not insure a happy or successful marriage. I would wage there are millions of marriages in the US alone that are successful and happy with incomes of less than 25K. Of course economics are different now than 25 years ago but my grandfather died never making any more than 9k in a year for his 81 years. He was happily married for 61 years.

An old man told me years ago while I was complaining about the amount of salary I was earning at the time. It didn't make much sense then but it sure has since and that was "It isn't the money you make....it's what you do with the money you make"

Seems as if you are looking to discount clients with lower incomes as if unworthy. I think you'd be doing a great injustice

[Bluebell]

Of course a lady living in the FSU should not lower herself from her lofty position of living with her parents in a two room flat, working 10+hrs a day, 6 days a week to have love and a family in a $75k house, a couple of non-Lexus cars, possibly working a part time job or even a normal 40hr job to help make ends meet.. yeah, I can see how that would be a terrible existence.  No woman should ever degrade herself with such a lowly existence and should worry entirely about being provided with a non mediocre lifestyle. 

Ah, you are mixing things up so badly, Daveman   What some of the ladies trade up for 'Love' is not 'living with parents in a two room flat, working 10+ hrs a day, 6 days a week', but the possibility of living in a $1.5 mil. house, driving a Ferrari, shopping weekends in Paris, Milan or London by not marrying a millionaire. Had they waited more, that millionaire surely would have come. I hope you can see and understand that this is a real sacrifice and their husbands should duly componsate them for it  

[mischief]

Mischief,

This is Off-Topic, but I just wanted to say ... WOW!

Your avatar is gorgeous! You look great - and we already know from your posts, you are charming and intelligent. Your husband is a lucky guy. Please remind him .... hourly. 

- Dan

Thank you, Dan...

what I meant to say that in spite of the fact that my husband makes a little less than I would like him to make I am happy with him... he is available whenever I need him and this is very important, especially for those who have kids... time and effort is the key... I don't want to look for somebody else... as they say : "let well enough alone"...

[acrzybear]

Hey, wait just a minute here!  You mean I am not a stud muffin?
 KenC

No Ken C

But you do have the body of a god

[groovlstk]

Ok, these are all great answers, guys, thank you.

It gets very tricky with a pall. Can somebody help me?

What is the best question to ask:

1. What is the minimum salary that a man should have in your opinion that would be enough not to be too tight in the US?
2. What is the minimum salary AND savings that a man should have in your opinion that would be enough not to be too tight in the US? (then what is the best way to put ranges for both salary and savings?)
3. What is the minimum lump sum of money a man should have in your opinion that would be enough for this endeavour and not to be too tight living after in the US? And what should man do when that lump sum is done? How can he maintain the life style they are used to?

I think it's impossible to put strict parameters around salary, savings, and debt. There are simply too many variables, and to instruct a woman to dump a guy based only on salary or savings is not very responsible.

What I would recommend is what worked for my wife and I: Talk, talk, and more talk PRIOR to her arrival in the US.

From our first meeting to her arrival a year later, we talked on the phone every single day for several hours. During many of these calls we discussed finances, my lifestyle vs. hers, bills, savings, debt, etc., ad infinitum (and possibly ad nauseum). My wife had a high standard of living in Moscow based on her salary, yet it was a major undertaking to explain the nuances of Western finance to her. It was probably the wisest thing I did in preparing her. She arrived in the US fully versed in what to expect in regards to our lifestyle, and a year + later we have yet to have a single disagreement about money. Given all the other elements she had to deal with (culture shock, being dependent on me for everything, lack of friends and family in the area, etc.), I'd advise any couple out there to take care of basics like lifestyle expectations BEFORE the K1, it's simply one less headache to worry about.