KenC's T/R 10 years late

[Admin]

Interesting thoughts of KenC on older women younger men. It seems quite hypocritical he can have such opinions .
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Re: Are age trends shifting?
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2007, 05:02:54 PM »
Quote
Quote from: viking on December 10, 2007, 04:52:52 PM
Although not the best site out there, if one goes to Craiglists and looks at the number of women in their late 30's to say about their late 40's, it appears most of these women are looking for a younger guy. I call it the Demi Moore syndrome. Seems they want the same thing as the guys, a younger partner. And it also appears they are getting some heavy response. Perhaps some of the younger men do not want to put up with the BS the younger girls dish out and can appreciate a good looking, sexy, older woman who knows what she wants and they do not need to haggle over it. No more 3 dates before the first kiss, wining and dining to get to first base. Much less home plate.
Viking,

From KenC
Sorry, but I am not buying it.  If the woman looked like Demi Moore, I would agree, but there are very few out there that do.  What you suggest is only available to the very beautiful or the very rich.  Now if you talking strictly getting a young buck to hump them only, it might be doable but only if the woman is decent looking.

I think a lot of American divorcees have visions of reliving their youth in a much sluttier way.  Only problem with that is that the youth is gone, never to be had again.
KenC

From Viking!
Ken
All I can say is dial in CL for NY and check for yourself. As to what they look like, can't answer. Most don't post pics. Wonder why.

From KenC:
Viking,
Asking and getting are two different things now, aren't they?  We all can dream.
KenC 

 If he can dish out the skepticism, he should fully be able to take it and understand the skeptism of others.

And what, exactly, does that have to do with the TR Ken is posting?

If you have something to address about a post made in another topic - post it there.

- Dan

[Admin]

Folks,

Over the years, the TR section has been one of the most valuable of all the forums at RWD. The problems occur when others decide to derail someone's TR. It has happened in the past - but for some time now, we have been vigilant about seeking to insure that a person has the prerogative to post their TR's with a minimum of interference - at least, until they are finished.

I ask that you give Ken the courtesy of allowing him to complete his report without these distractions.

It is the very same courtesy I would ask if anyone were posting a TR.

Thanks for your cooperation.

- Dan

[mspanky]

And what, exactly, does that have to do with the TR Ken is posting?

If you have something to address about a post made in another topic - post it there.

- Dan

  The post was made in addressing the way jazzy is being treated when she ask questions. She and Sebrero  ask valid questions and opinions about age ,relationships and expectations. I don't feel they're out of line . But Jazzy gets called classless,accused of jealousy for KC and his wife. Yet when KC post his hypocritical opinion, nothing is said. KC took to judging what a relationship of an older woman/younger man is based on,which in his opinion is all about sex for the older woman and money for the younger man.Weird he thinks that way  as he hates for his relationship to nbe prejudged.

  All I ever see are people talking about the immaturity of JC, but  reading a post like KC's above   and wonder why a grown man would also be so close minded and just as immature as he accuses JC to be.

[mischief]

KenC, I don't understand why you get so defensive... who cares what anybody else thinks !? People can speculate as much as they want... it does not make any impact on your life together...
Having the same age disparity, there was only few times I have faced with semi negative attitude and only until people talk to us, see us together and the way we operate as a family... there is no need to  prove anything...

Your trip report made me think that maybe one of the reasons for any kind of "misalliance" to happen is timing... being in the right place in the right time makes lots of things possible...

[vwrw]

  She and Serebro ask valid questions and opinions about age ,relationships and

I agreed with you. Jazzy and Serebro asked valid questions.

Over the years, the TR section has been one of the most valuable of all the forums at RWD.

Yes, a TR may be a valuable resource of information provided the TR reflects actual reality, NOT writer's wishful thinking about the reality.

KenC, I don't understand why you get so defensive...

Probably because He wants to defend his story...he does not want to let facts get in the way of his bragging story Just a hypothesis

[Admin]

  The post was made in addressing the way jazzy is being treated when she ask questions. She and Sebrero  ask valid questions and opinions about age ,relationships and expectations. I don't feel they're out of line . But Jazzy gets called classless,accused of jealousy for KC and his wife. Yet when KC post his hypocritical opinion, nothing is said. KC took to judging what a relationship of an older woman/younger man is based on,which in his opinion is all about sex for the older woman and money for the younger man.Weird he thinks that way  as he hates for his relationship to nbe prejudged.

  All I ever see are people talking about the immaturity of JC, but  reading a post like KC's above   and wonder why a grown man would also be so close minded and just as immature as he accuses JC to be.

So here are a few more FACTS for you to ponder:

* I responded FIRST to a PM asking me to intervene on a post which had insulted Jazzy. I did so.
* I then removed or edited OTHER posts which contained insults toward Ken and/Lena.
* In THIS topic, I posted no fewer than 3 times asking you all to knock it off with the distracting posts. I provided alternatives - and have acted on each and every Report and/or PM sent.
* In this post -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6838.msg124094#msg124094, I made the following comment:

Whenever someone posts their TR here, it is an act of generosity and should be appreciated.

It has been a point of discussion in the past, that there has been entirely too much criticism of people who post their TR.
* In other recent posts, I have made the point time and time again, that personal insults and attacks are going to stop.
* Jazzy's and Serebro's questions and opinions are welcome here - so long as they; (a) do not disrupt someone's Trip Report, and (b) are not insulting.
* Ken even welcomed clarifying questions along the way. Just keep them in the realm of seeking clarification and not intending to veil innuendo or insults.

Yes, a TR may be a valuable resource of information provided the TR reflects actual reality, NOT writer's wishful thinking about the reality.

Probably because He wants to defend his story...he does not want to let facts get in the way of his bragging story Just a hypothesis

And this is EXACTLY the sort of speculation which is, IMO, totally inappropriate mid-stream in a TR.

You were not there. You have no way of knowing what was "actual reality" of "facts" and what was not.
I will state it again - you all need to allow Ken the courtesy of letting him finish his report. Your speculations about his motives or the "reality" - is just that - pure speculation.

- Dan

[Blues Fairy]

Yes, a TR may be a valuable resource of information provided the TR reflects actual reality, NOT writer's wishful thinking about the reality.

Probably because He wants to defend his story...he does not want to let facts get in the way of his bragging story Just a hypothesis

And pray tell me, who is the ultimate judge of "reality" here?  Are you implying that unequivocal reality actually exists, and we should be able to deduct it from the "facts"? 

If that's the case, I demand a more scientific approach to the drawing of our conclusions, e.g. using a control group, verification against alternative sources, content analysis etc.  Otherwise, let's just trust the author shall we?

[viking]

Mspanky

You took some quotes from me, which were in a completely different thread and posted them here. While I might concur with you in some aspects and disagree with KC in others, lets use the other thread to discuss. Not here. I am reading his words, dissecting his thoughts, and perhaps may even start another thread to further analyze and discuss. But its a good read and I would like for him to continue unabatted. Do you agree?

BluesFairy/VWRW

Reality is in the eyes and mind of the beholder. See above.

[vwrw]

And pray tell me, who is the ultimate judge of "reality" here?  Are you implying that unequivocal reality actually exists, and we should be able to deduct it from the "facts"? 

Nobody is the ultimate judge of "reality" here.  You misunderstood me I was implying that not all TRs have the same value. That is all.

[KenC]

You know people, I am disappointed in some of you.  If you cannot understand that I am pouring my heart out regarding a love story so near and dear to my heart, then you must be subhuman.  My wife Lena is the most important person in my life and to say I love her with all my heart falls far short of everything I think about her.  I told her today, while discussing some on the disgusting insinuations here, that she was the one person I most admire in my lifetime.  If my "bragging" about her annoys you, don't read any more of my trip report please, because it is going to get very very thick in the future segments.

I will now take the time to answer some of the questions raised, but quite frankly, most are off topic and irrelevant to my trip report.  I will not continue to debate "off topic" subjects and if you have any thread of decency, you will not persist in derailing my report.  I sincerely want these off topic discussons to end.

I have absolutely no problems with any questions or points raised by Serebo.  She has been respectful and has brought up some very good points.  She even has the class to ask a question she thought might be too personal for a public board via a PM.

Every question raised by Jazzy has been answered.  I took exception to her one post only:

you never really tried to meet the older women or the women who could really be equal  to your mature brains, you have chosen a person whom it is easier to rule and to dictate and to patronate,

  As I have posted here, there are a number of things I take exception to regarding this post.  #1 It is untrue that I did not attempt to meet women older than Lena and the proof was pointed out  to Jazzy.  #2 The second part of this quote is rude and demeaning to my wife Lena.  It infers that she is somehow less intelligent than an older woman and my motivation for selecting Lena was to be able to dominate her because of her youth.  I find this statement not only highly insulting but almost comical in it's reality.  No one here should have to defend their spouse from attacks like this.  In the end, I do believe Jazzy made a poor selection of words and am hopeful that she will be more careful with her choices in the future.

MSpanky, I do not see anything I posted in Viking's thread regarding the trends in American dating to be inconsistent with anything I wrote here.  I was never making a judgement on whether older women deserved a younger man, only that I didn't agree it was a trend.  Later in that same thread, Viking presented some more evidence to his claim and I backed off from my opinion.  But I find it curious that someone would take the time to try to dig up old posts to try and make me look bad in this trip report.  What was your motivation, I wonder?

VWRW, if you do not value or believe my words, please stop reading them.

To all, I welcome your on topic comments and questions, but I do not appreciate some of you sidetracking this thread with nonsense.  Of course insulting comments have no place here.  Now can we get on with the story?
KenC

[wxman]

Nobody is the ultimate judge of "reality" here.  You misunderstood me I was implying that not all TRs have the same value. That is all.

Since KenC has been married for almost 10 years now, then his TR should be of the highest value, since in the end, time is the true measure of success.

[KenC]

Going to the market
First things first, I called the office and requested my terp and a driver to take me to pick up some things for my flat.  I only had the coffee and some bottled water so far.  What an experience it was to go to the market in Tver!  They took me to the “big” market to do some provision shopping.  There were two doors at the entrance, but one was locked for some reason.  This caused a line on both sides, people waiting to get out and other waiting to get in.  WTF?  How about one door for entering and the other for exiting?  :noidea: I was soon to find out that things were never that simple in Russia.  The store was a little larger than the size of a 7-11 back home.  There were counters of food all around the perimeter and what looked like a toll both with a cashier in the center.

I turned to my terp and asked her how the system worked to buy things here.  Well, she explained that the shopper needed to walk around the counters and write down the numbers of the items they wanted to purchase on a piece of paper, but not take the item with them.  Then the customer had to present their list to the cashier and she would look up the cost of each item, total your list, and collect your money.  You then had to take your receipt from the cashier and present it to the clerk manning the particular section where your item was located and they would give it to you.  This market might have been the size of a 7-11 but convenience certainly was no priority.  I had never seen such a stupid system in my life!  I guess the “door thing” was only previews of coming attractions in stupidity in retailing.  The only possible reason for such an idiotic system could be that the threat of theft was much greater than any customer service.  (Yes, I was naive enough to think there might be some customer service in Russia)
 :selfharm:
Second date with Lena
Later that evening, Lena and Yelena picked me up at my flat for dinner.  I wondered when Lena would feel safe enough to not need a chaperon, but I was never going to push it.  When she felt comfortable enough was the answer.  This time we went to a restaurant that was more like what we would call a “pub.”  Food was just so so.  After dinner Lena and I had coffee and I introduced her to Baileys Irish Cream in coffee.  She loved it!  So I bought the rest of the bottle from the bar for my flat.  They overcharged me $40 which was highway robbery at that time, but what can you do?  I didn't know if I could ever find another bottle in Tver, so I grabbed it when I could.  There was another plan developing in my head now for implementation later. 

After dinner we went to a club type place.  The attraction for Lena was that they had a Karaoke room.  Let me tell you guys something.  Especially the guys that have yet to go to the fsu.  You have never experienced anything quite as sexy as a beautiful RW singing “Love me Tender” in that thick Russian accent!  I was toast after that!  That seriously melted my heart. :heartafire:
YEOW! :hairraising:

Day trip to Moscow
When I decided not to meet any more women, I decided to use LTP and my terps for my own personal purposes.  That includes tour guides.  I had arranged for one of the terps to accompany me to Moscow.  The plan was to catch an early train, do some sightseeing and return that evening.  Well, the terp and drive arrived at my flat late.  (Same two that pulled this crap on me when I arrived)  The terp and I made a mad dash to try and catch the train, but we were too late.  Hmm?  As my blood pressure was rising (and I didn’t have high pressure then) the terp came up with an alternative plan; we would take the bus.  And according to her, the bus was BETTER than the train.  I don’t know who she thought she was bullsh!tting, but I wasn’t buying it.   

 As the driver had left, we trekked through the snow over to the bus stop.  We stood in line outside and wait a half an hour for the next bus.  Looking at the crowd ahead of us, I knew this was not going to be fun.  As a battered old bus pulled up about the size of a school bus, you know the old fashion ones with the rounded back end, only a handful of the line was able to board.  Huh?  What gives you late ass BSing terp?  (I thought)  Oh not to worry as I was assured that a second bus is only moments away.  And it did.  This one was no better than the first and it looked to be full too.  But somehow everyone squeezed onto it.  Every single seat was occupied.  Some people had children on their laps and (I kid you not) the guy in front of me had his German Sheppard dog on his lap too.  So we had wall to wall people bundled up to the max and kids and dogs.  Here the hell were the chickens? :noidea:

The terp zonked out in a coma like sleep before the bus left the station.  The seats were uncomfortable as hell and it was either 120 degrees or 20 degrees all the way to Moscow.  About 3 hours by bus.

My terp was familiar with the Metro so we took it from the bus station to Red Square.  I was awestruck by the Metro stations.  They were beautiful and clean.  They looked more like the lobby of a fancy hotel than a public transportation station.  I took some photos which I later found out I should not have been taking.  I guess I could have been arrested like the old guy from LTP as the Russian government considers the Metro stations to be critical to their self defense and therefore off limits to photography.

Seeing Red Square  for the first time was a very emotional experience for me.  I had grown up through the Cold War era and saw this square every May Day parade of my young life broadcasted on our black and white TV.  The vision of soldiers marching here and armored missile carriers rolling through here was a bit overwhelming to me.  It was always scary to me which I am sure was the intended message being sent by the Soviets.  But now, standing there in person, it was not threatening at all.  It was beautiful.  The architecture of the two churches at either end, the Kremlin and the rest of the buildings were awesome.  WOW is all I can say.

We also browsed around the Arbat and I bought a Russian military jacket and hat for my son and some gifts for my daughter too.  I am not going to bore you with the rest of the details on Moscow as I am sure others could do a much better job of describing the details.  Let me just say that I really enjoyed experiencing a little taste of this great city.

We headed to the train station with plenty of time to spare.  The train trip home was a great experience for me too.  I guess there are different classes of trains and we happened to catch one at the higher end of the scale.  Our compartment was fine, but we really spent most of the trip in the dining car eating soup and drinking tea.  The time flew by and we were back in Tver  in what seemed like a heartbeat.  I made sure the terp understood how much better the train was over the bus!

[Gator]

KenC,

Some aspects of the Russian life you described have changed dramatically.  One can find COSTCO and BJ's wholesale-type stores (under the name METRO, a German company), although they are not yet ready for self checking.     Ingress and egress has improved too.

Some of the older markets still have only one door open in the winter.  I suppose the objective is to avoid drafts and heat loss.  It sure creates a safety issue.

Hopefully the distractions to your report will now settle down.  This is the classic example of "the less said the better."  Except for you, because we want more and more from you.

Thank you for sharing your story.

[dneid]

Hey, Ken,
So far I am really enjoying the TR.  Very good.  Please keep it up!  You have me hanging on the edge of my seat even though I know the outcome!  I am really enjoying this all the more after our brief conversation a few weeks ago.

As for all the "interesting" comments by some others.... who am I to judge?  I am not you or Lena.  I barely know you.  How can I judge what you have done?  I can't.  But, I can read and learn.  One thing my grandfather taught me was if you want to be successful at something, find others who have accomplished what you desire and learn from them.  Does that mean I will do everything exactly the way you did?  No, I am me and I will adapt what I learn her to fit me as best I can.  I have already learned a great deal from all of you.  I have spoken with several of you all on the phone or via PM or e-mail.  All of you have added your advice after listening and I appreciate it.  So, in that vein, keep the TR coming, buddy.  I am enjoying the heck out of it.

[KenC]

KenC,

Some aspects of the Russian life you described have changed dramatically.  One can find COSTCO and BJ's wholesale-type stores (under the name METRO, a German company), although they are not yet ready for self checking.     Ingress and egress has improved too.

Some of the older markets still have only one door open in the winter.  I suppose the objective is to avoid drafts and heat loss.  It sure creates a safety issue.

Hopefully the distractions to your report will now settle down.  This is the classic example of "the less said the better."  Except for you, because we want more and more from you.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Gator,
It is because of the many respectful members here (like you) and the hope that I might give to a passing newbie that I continue.

I know much has changed since this trip.  Tver even has supermarkets now with carts and everything!  But at the time of this trip, it was like going back in time for me.  I grew up in the 50's and that time here would be a little ahead of where Russia was at in 98.  Of course I am not including Moscow.

And, boy were things cheap back then too.  On my second trip in 99,  took Lena's parents to the Hotel Osnabruk for dinner.  The 4 of us had appetisers, many courses for dinner, deserts, more than a few bottles of vodka, champagne and the tab ran me $40!  I know Russia has made great strides in improving the quality of life over the past few years and I also know the prices have sky rocketed too.
KenC

[KenC]

Hey, Ken,
So far I am really enjoying the TR.  Very good.  Please keep it up!  You have me hanging on the edge of my seat even though I know the outcome!  I am really enjoying this all the more after our brief conversation a few weeks ago.

As for all the "interesting" comments by some others.... who am I to judge?  I am not you or Lena.  I barely know you.  How can I judge what you have done?  I can't.  But, I can read and learn.  One thing my grandfather taught me was if you want to be successful at something, find others who have accomplished what you desire and learn from them.  Does that mean I will do everything exactly the way you did?  No, I am me and I will adapt what I learn her to fit me as best I can.  I have already learned a great deal from all of you.  I have spoken with several of you all on the phone or via PM or e-mail.  All of you have added your advice after listening and I appreciate it.  So, in that vein, keep the TR coming, buddy.  I am enjoying the heck out of it.

I am glad you are enjoying the story.  You do make me want to post a disclaimer though.  This trip report is not an attempt to show anyone "how to do" anything!  A guy would have to be nuts to do what I did!  I have told bits and pieces of this story over the years and I just wanted to put it all together for the first time in one spot.  Now I am beginning to wonder how far I should go in the story.  Not meaning how much to reveal, but if I should go into the follow up trip and Lena coming here.  Hmm?
KenC

[Lily]

Question in between. So far we have gone through two face meetings with Lena. What did you notice from her side towards you? Did anything in her behavior told you that you have a good chance on her?

[Todd]

While it is a minor point, I just wanted to reiterate what someone else had already mentioned.  The economy of Russia in 1998 was the worst it was and is likely to be for a very long time.  I know that this might shock people, but compare last year's oil prices with 1998's.  (I have pulled this from the same data set for a one to one comparison.)  In addition, Russia was desperately trying to renegotiate its foreign debt, and all developing markets were reeling from the Asian flu.  December 1998's oil prices were
$8.64 a barrel as compared to Dec 2007's $83.46. 

I just want to place this story into a bit more of an historical context as Americans can be a bit myopic at times.

Todd

2007

January $46.53 July $65.96
February $51.36 August $64.23
March $52.64 September $70.94
April $56.08 October $77.56
May $55.43 November $86.92
June $59.25 December $83.46
    2007 Average $64.20
---------------------
1998

February $13.71 August $10.20
March $12.75 September $12.44
April $13.15 October $11.88
May $12.67 November $10.36
January $14.56 July $11.52
June $11.03 December $8.64
    Yearly Average $11.91

[I/O]

Anyone ever seen one of those large fish, maybe even to the size of a shark swimming freely along with those schools of tiny "Bait fish" nibling away at it's skin but it takes little or no notice because they are just so small? Just an observation.

I/O

[KenC]

Question in between. So far we have gone through two face meetings with Lena. What did you notice from her side towards you? Did anything in her behavior told you that you have a good chance on her?

Lily,
The hard part about writing this story is that I know the ending.  I could answer your question quite simply with , Lena was just being Lena, but then I would be the only one to understand.  Let me try to explain.

Lena and I knew each other very very well before we met. Our phone conversations were deep and meaningful.  We both thouroughly enjoyed our talks.  We were very attracted to each other's personality and we learned just about everything anyone would need to know about each other except for how we would mesh together in person.  For all our (my?) fears of getting too romantically involved before meeting, it was damn comfortable once we did.  Being together was the final puzzle piece and the fit was perfect.

There was a moment, when I first walked through the doors of the office and first laid eyes on Lena.  I remember thinking "yep, this is going to work out just fine."  Later she told me that her initial thought was "here he is, my man has arrived."  We both knew we were destined to be together from the first instant we saw each other and maybe even before, but we were both trying to be smart about it at the same time.  We both knew where this was headed, no doubt about it, but we were just pacing ourselves getting there.

You ask "Did anything in her behavior told you that you have a good chance on her?"  My answer is "everything she did was another conformation that we belonged together."  The way her eyes sparkled when she looked at me, the way she held my arm or hand when we walked, the tone of her voice when she spoke to me, the way we complimented each other in conversations with others.........it was all scary perfect.  Chances with her?  There was nothing left to "chance" I knew she was mine and I was hers.  We both knew we would be together and we were just traveling down the road of destiny with full knowledge of where it was leading us.  No need to rush.
KenC

[Ste]

Looking at the pics Ken, I noticed you went grey after you married Lena. Any conclusions to be drawn here!

[KenC]

Looking at the pics Ken, I noticed you went grey after you married Lena. Any conclusions to be drawn here!

Yeah, being with a Russan woman will shorten your life span, but you will also completely enjoy what little life you have left?
 
KenC

[dneid]

Hey, Ken,
Well, to answer your question about how much should you post.  Tell all.  I, for one, will enjoy reading it all.  I figure I can also learn from you and Lena.  So, I am all for you posting as much as you would like to post.

[Mir]

Looking at the pics Ken, I noticed you went grey after you married Lena. Any conclusions to be drawn here!

And also how wrong are the guys who spend hours in the gym while preparing to meet their FSU woman

[Turboguy]

Being out of shape is not a problem. Had he been fit and trim but wearing a ball cap it would have been hopeless. ;-)