Russia is at it again!

[OlgaH]

Warrior,

You have written an imaginative exposition 

I would advise you to read the history of Georgia that is written by the Georgian professor Geronty Kikodze and the Georgian historian Ivane Dzhavakhishvili (the Tbilisi State University is named in his honor), and you will know that Ossetia land never has been a land of Georgia 

[Warrior]

Warrior,

You have written an imaginative exposition 

I would advise you to read the history of Georgia that is written by the Georgian professor Geronty Kikokdze and the Georgian historian Ivane Dzhavakhishvili (the Tbilisi State University is named in his honor), and you will know that Ossetia land never has been a land of Georgia 

Olga daragaia let me tell you that there is only one ossetia on the earth and called North Ossetia, it's wrong because there is no another (South) Ossetia, so there could not be a North one. the land you call S.O is called SAMACHABLO. The North Ossetia as you call, is in Russian Federation now. You are Russian and your name is Olga, if I call you a Georgian name f.e Lika will you became a Georgian? Of course not. The same situation with SAMACHABLO

[Lit_1nce]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Geor_tamro.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/DRGMap.png

[OlgaH]

Olga daragaia let me tell you that there is only one ossetia on the earth and called North Ossetia, it's wrong because there is no another (South) Ossetia, so there could not be a North one. the land you call S.O is called SAMACHABLO. The North Ossetia as you call, is in Russian Federation now. You are Russian and your name is Olga, if I call you a Georgian name f.e Lika will you became a Georgian? Of course not. The same situation with SAMACHABLO

Warrior,

The names to the land of Alans as  South Ossetia and North Ossetia   were given by Ossetians and it was just geographical division without any political base  Read Geronty Kikokdze  and you will discover that the Alans (Ossetians - remark by Geronty Kikodze) felt sorry and sheltered Georgians who were banished from other lands and came to the Caucasus. 

The political division of borders between South Ossetia and North Ossetia happened only in 1920-1922

[Warrior]

Here you go Olga, you will "remember" why Samachablo was renamed, of course you know but you've "forgotten" perhaps....



They gave to these regions Autonomies, in case of something, if GEorgia would be independent they would started buttle for freedom. These people who were originally from other regions (!!!) you see what a sly government was it? They called South Ossetia to the land which was originally called Samachablo, the Georgian land, and there is Ossetia republic which is now in RF and they called it North Ossetia, a man will think there is North and South Ossetia, wow so this is a one country like Western Germany and Eastern Germany, and one day they must unite, the fundamental Georgian land which was called Samachablo They renamed!!! They focused that one day these "two" ossetia would unite. That's why I'll mention Samachablo. And when the Georgia became independent, after several months these to region, separatists started to do their job, they were co operating with russian KGB and finnaly they made russian dream come true.

this is a quote from my first post and, I want to add that not only KGB (FSB) was involved in this conflict, a whole Russian government, Russian army and so on. They used to give armament to the separatists and continues to do it till now.

[wxman]

One can aruge who was where first, or who named what first, but the sad part is that there was a war to begin with, where people died. Every war is the summation of failure on both sides. In other words, blame can be spread equally between the parties at war. In the end no one was right, instead, everyone was wrong. 

[Warrior]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Iberia

I think that's enough to get when Iberia was on these lands, Iberians and Kolkhs are the ancestors of Georgians, for that time when whe lived on these lands, the God had not created Ossetians, I won't say a word about Russians

Ivane Dzhavakhishvili (the Tbilisi State University is named in his honor -  Чего бы я не вздох...... правда не знал  

[OlgaH]

Warrior,

First of all read the works that is written by the famous Georgian historians more over that were written before Soviet time and then we can talk. 

____________________________________________________

BTW you have forgotten to mention:

South Ossetia fell under the jurisdiction of Georgia only in 1918, when Georgia used the opportunity as bolshevik coup d'etat, and even in that year South Ossetians excited rebellion for their independence from Georgia. But the rebellion was stifled by Georgian National Guards and the Georgian army, and about 5000 Ossetians perished. This history repeated itself in 1920. The rebellion of South Ossetians was again stifled and Georgia took total jurisdiction over South Ossetia...

Finally in 1922 Josef Stalin showed his patronage for South Ossetians and insisted to give South Ossetia the right to be an autonomous region of Georgia with the determined borders, but not to be a Republic as South Ossetia wanted. In any case something was done for South Ossetia. But Georgian government of course implemented the Georgian language as main language and even started to change all the South Ossetians geographic names with Georgian names.

At the end of the 1980s Georgia activated its nationalistic movement for liquidation of all  autonomous regions on the territory of Georgia and total assimilation of other nations. To save South Ossetia and Ossetians as a nation the deputats of South Ossetia took the decision about reforming South Ossetia  autonomous region into  the autonomous Republic.

After 13 days on the 13th of November 1989 the nationalistic movement leading by Zviad Gamsakhurdia commited its campaign on Tshinvali, but the citizens of Tshinvali showed resistance. The nationalistic movement blockaded the city for four months...

[OlgaH]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Iberia

I think that's enough to get when Iberia was on these lands, Iberians and Kolkhs are the ancestors of Georgians

Iberia is just an East part of Georgia, but not a whole Georgia, and it was land of Iberian tribes who were BTW outsiders 

[OlgaH]

  Ivane Dzhavakhishvili (the Tbilisi State University is named in his honor -  Чего бы я не вздох...... правда не знал 

It is sad that you, talking about the history of Georgia, did not know about it till this time... 

[Lit_1nce]

The most feared man in the US while he was alive was J Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI. He was so feared that even the Presidents would not remove him from his post. He basically ran the domestic policy of the US. Hoover and the FBI had carte blanche to spy and detain anyone in the US. When he died, Nixon stripped the FBI of most of it's power to keep them getting that strong ever again. Along comes George Jr, who creates Homeland security, who again now has carte blanche to spy and detain US citizens without permission.

For years, the most feared organization in Russia was the KGB, who had carte blanche to spy and detain anyone in the USSR. Along come Yeltsin who knew the power of the KGB. He quickly dismantles this organization. Then comes Mr Putin, who creates the FSB who is given carte blanche to spy and detain anyone in Russia.

Notice the similarities? Quite frightening, actually.

Perhaps a comeback is in the works for the FBI ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/opinion/22fri2.html
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/mukasey_to_delay_approval_of_n.html

[Shadow]

Warrior you say that Russia gave passports illegally. Can you substantiate that ? In which way was this done illegally ?

The second thing you state is that the Georgian President gave a moratorium. In the news I read was that he agreed to negotiations with South Ossetia (changing the name will not change the claims) and attacked instead of negotiating.
Perhaps you can give a link to the moratorium in Russian ?

[Shadow]

Shadow...you're killing me here.  If you can call black white and white black, what hope is there for truth?

Ronnie when will you learn that there is no white and black. there are just shades of grey, and if you see them as darker or lighter depends on where you place the sun and the Shadows.

[Warrior]

Warrior,

First of all read the works that is written by the famous Georgian historians more over that were written before Soviet time and then we can talk. 

____________________________________________________

BTW you have forgotten to mention:

South Ossetia fell under the jurisdiction of Georgia only in 1918, when Georgia used the opportunity as bolshevik coup d'etat, and even in that year South Ossetians excited rebellion for their independence from Georgia. But the rebellion was stifled by Georgian National Guards and the Georgian army, and about 5000 Ossetians perished. This history repeated itself in 1920. The rebellion of South Ossetians was again stifled and Georgia took total jurisdiction over South Ossetia...

Finally in 1922 Josef Stalin showed his patronage for South Ossetians and insisted to give South Ossetia the right to be an autonomous region of Georgia with the determined borders, but not to be a Republic as South Ossetia wanted. In any case something was done for South Ossetia. But Georgian government of course implemented the Georgian language as main language and even started to change all the South Ossetians geographic names with Georgian names.

At the end of the 1980s Georgia activated its nationalistic movement for liquidation of all  autonomous regions on the territory of Georgia and total assimilation of other nations. To save South Ossetia and Ossetians as a nation the deputats of South Ossetia took the decision about reforming South Ossetia  autonomous region into  the autonomous Republic.

After 13 days on the 13th of November 1989 the nationalistic movement leading by Zviad Gamsakhurdia commited its campaign on Tshinvali, but the citizens of Tshinvali showed resistance. The nationalistic movement blockaded the city for four months...

As in general you, russians have your interpretation about everything. You did not understand it pretty well, they talk about Ossetia, wich is now annexed by Russia, as Chechnya, Dagestan and the whole northern Caucas. And many other territories, Keningsberg, Karelia, Siberia and so on. And you even can not realize that what you've written in the first indention, was the same aggresive action by Russian Gov, which again was repeated in 90 s. In 1918 Georgia became an independent rep. from Russia. Then russians started to encourage ossetians to weaken the young Georgian republic. This was the first time when Russia used these people to fight against Georgia. You see the parralels between that time and 90 s. Just only dates are changed.Stalin did it due to if Georgia would became an independent, this breakaway regions would started to separate from Georgia. These regions were the "bombs"  which would blow up after Independance of GEO.  Of course russians know everything this, but you want to change our history, and make things upsite down. Yous just need these people to have some levers against us. When Igor Ivanov came to Georgia after rose revolution, he wanted to have a deal with us, he suggested us not to join NATO and don't even had glanced to the West and Russia would gave us opportunity to restore territorial integrity. It is very  clear what are the desires and goals of Russia .

Iberians and Kolkhs are our ancestors, these people were relative tribes and are the first people who lived in Caucas. Everybody knows the legend of Argo, Argonauts who arrived to Kolkheti. Then they were united by two kings, Parnavaz was the king of Iberia and Cuji the king of Kolkheti. BC 302-290.  The Ossetians are not caucasian tribes, they are Indo-europeans. They came from Iran and they lived on the land of Ossetia (occupied by Russia for now),  then they started to move towards Georgia, to Samachablo. And you say that Iberians are outsiders 

And after this, you the cocktail of wild Mongols and Slavs came to Caucas and invided these anxious civilizations, now who is the outisder? when your country was created in 9 century and it only included the wild tribes, our kingdom had already had a huge history.

But you have grief, the creator of the first Empire of Russia the Peter I, he's father was Georgian. This is prooved in documentation archives of Russia. He's father was Erekle Nazaralikhan the Georgian prince,son of the king Teimuraz II, Erekle lived for a short time in Russia, Then he became the king. It is well known that the other sisters and brothers of Peter were fallen ill by Outism, mentaly weak, these were children of Alexis I with Natalia Naryshkina, the only son who was healthy was Peter, who had a georgian roots. The well known russian writer Aleksei Nikolaevich Tolstoi, (and not only he) noted in his work, Peter The Great this fact and showed it to Stalin, before the publication, but Stalin went against  this, He's answer was, "In the whole history the Peter was only normal king of Russia, let they think that he was Russian " the work was destroyed by Soviet government but as I said there are some archives in which it is written.

The second Russian empire was created by Georgians, Stalin (Ioseb Jughashvili), Lavrenti Beria chief of the KGB, Sergo Orjonikidze and so on. The traitors of Georgia.
And this evil empire was collapsed by Georgians as well. Zviad Gamsakhurdia, Merab Kostava and others together with ten thousands of Georgians demonstrated agains the Soviet Union and were sacked by russian tanks. Later Georgia was the first country which left USSR and after this the empire started to collapse.

The de-facto president of Russia, Putin who spent his childhood years is a orphanage, his mother lives in Georgia, FSB tried to hide this but they were unable to do it, they denied that she was his mother, don't you have a question why there is nothing known about his parents?  Her mother who lives now in Georgia, married at a georgian guy, and left Mr. tiny president into the orphanage. Tiny president did not have a mum's caress. Maybe it was a Georgian man's blame, who married on tiny's mother.

[Warrior]

Warrior you say that Russia gave passports illegally. Can you substantiate that ? In which way was this done illegally ?

The second thing you state is that the Georgian President gave a moratorium. In the news I read was that he agreed to negotiations with South Ossetia (changing the name will not change the claims) and attacked instead of negotiating.
Perhaps you can give a link to the moratorium in Russian ?

Why do I have to substantiate it, Russians do not hide this fact. They say that it was done legally,  but no countries have a right to do this in another country.

Our Government minister, Yakobashvili was sent to tskhinvali on 7 August for the negotiations, but the separatists wrecked the talks. I told you Shadow you don't know nothing about the pre-surroundings, you payed attention after 8 August to this conflict.

 http://www.google.ge/search?hl=ka&q=three+hour+moratorium+in+south+ossetia&meta=  whatever language you want.

P.S Tskhinvali in Georgian means Hornbeam alley, if Russian say that this city is not Georgian, why it is called Tskhinvali?

[Warrior]

Guys, why want you talk about Keningsberg, northern Caucas, Karelia, Siberia, all this lands are occupied by Russia

[OlgaH]

Iberians and Kolkhs are our ancestors, these people were relative tribes and are the first people who lived in Caucas. Everybody knows the legend of Argo, Argonauts who arrived to Kolkheti.

I would also advice you to read Strabo along with the Georgian historians, when Iberians came to the Caucasus there already were living Scythians and Sarmatians in Kartli 

The Georgian historian Ivane Javakhishvili wrote in "The history of Georgians" that the Caucasus is not a motherland of Georgians therefore the remains of their initial culture can be found here 

Also I suppose that you did not read the Georgian chronicle "Kartlis Tskhovreba" 

So, please don't tell me what I understand or not 

[OlgaH]

In 1918 Georgia became an independent rep. from Russia. 

 and by all means was trying to drug South Ossetia, who showed its resistance   

You forgot to add that South Ossetia refused to leave Russia and did not participate in the Georgia parliament election, and South Ossetia twice was subjected to Georgian aggression in 1917 and in 1920.

[Misha]

You forgot to add that South Ossetia refused to leave Russia

Olga, South Ossetia was a autonomous republic in Georgia, one of the titular republics the Soviet Union. South Ossetia was not a part of Russia, unless of course you consider the Soviet Union to be Russia. As such, it could not refuse to leave a country that it never was part of.

[OlgaH]

Olga, South Ossetia was a autonomous republic in Georgia, one of the titular republics the Soviet Union. South Ossetia was not a part of Russia, unless of course you consider the Soviet Union to be Russia. As such, it could not refuse to leave a country that it never was part of.

Misha,

South Ossetia was joined to Russia in 1830 after expedition that was leading by general Paul von Rennenkampf. The Georgian princes Machabeli and Eristavi wanted to get South Ossetia under their jurisdiction, but they were refused. 

[Warrior]

I would also advice you to read Strabo along with the Georgian historians, when Iberians came to the Caucasus there already were living Scythians and Sarmatians in Kartli 

Also I suppose that you did not read the Georgian chronicle "Kartlis Tskhovreba" 

So, please don't tell me what I understand or not 

This is so funny, there are not any archeological provements that Scythians lived in Caucas. Scythians used to live over Caspian sea, not near Caucas, we are Iberian-Caucasian tribes, we do not have any connections with them. There are no any signs that Sarmats and Scyths lived in Caucasus. We are the part of meditarrenian civilization, like Ethruskians, Trojans and so on.  You can tell anything you want, for egzample that Tbilisi is not Georgia If you want to say that Scythians are your ancestors, that's so ridicilous Read Karamzin, you are the offspring of Mongols, Vikings Tatars, you still believe that you've defeated mongols in  Kulikovo buttle    watch the map, where russia born, Novgorod, Riazan, Tula, Moscow, Smolensk no more. This is Russia, all the territories are invided, many of them by Ermak, You call him discoverer, "pervopraxodezts" and Cortes is invider right?   Your existance is based on the occupations, you've got it in your blood from Mongolians perhaps. As I said, Georgians created all the empires you had. And you? your general Totleben ran away from the buttlefield of Aspindza, when we fighted against Turkeys Ekaterina withdrawed her troops from Georgia, did not helped us against Persians and left Erekle alone. while with the Treaty of Georgyevsk you were obliged to had an aliance with Georgians. All the history we fighted agains too many empires, Mongols, Osmals, Persia and so on and we still exist and now we are fighting against you and we'll continue existance, which you do not want so much , when was a fact when georgians did not helped you?Peter Bagrationi, the honored Georgian General, who fighted with you against France, Shamil the chehchen patriot, wich fighted against your kingdom, russians could not arrest him and Georgians did it. But perhaps it was a mistake from us, Chechens are also occupied country by you.

We did not have an aviaton in this war, your analitics admire that if Russian aviation would not help the troops, russian army would be defeated, the half of the 58 army was destroyed. We'll also have an aviation and much better armament in near future and come back then. Maybe you won just a buttlefield but lost the war, the whole world stands together against you, if I were you I would think why do the world condemns and blames Russia in this war and not only, why do they want to keep far away from Russia?  You need to analize why Georgians prefer to cooperate with US and other Western countries then with Russia 

maybe you did not understand what you've read, "KArtlis cxovreba" or translation was too bad.
The books, "Mokcevai Kartlisai", "Bedi Kartlisa" "Kartlis Cxovreba" are the one, in which you can acquintance georgian history and you can not find things like that what you want to proove so much perhaps you add it by pen

[OlgaH]

There are no any signs that Sarmats and Scyths lived in Caucasus.

Just one example about Scyths in Coucasus

"Скифы, видимо, первые обитатели Северного Кавказа, памятники археологии которых имеют национальную идентификацию. До скифов памятники археологии идентифицировали по географическому месту и называли по имени археологической культуры (майкопская, куро-аракская, кобанская и т.д.). Определить принадлежность скифам того или иного памятника археологии помогли, прежде всего, письменные источники древних авторов". http://www.inauka.ru/analysis/article72689.html

Alans (Ossetians) are a group among the Sarmatian people 

Warrior,

you simply don't know the history what you are trying to talk about because you simply did not read even the works that are written by the Georgians historians and also by the historians of  the antique.

[Warrior]

Misha,

South Ossetia was joined to Russia in 1830 after expedition that was leading by general Paul von Rennenkampf. The Georgian princes Machabeli and Eristavi wanted to get South Ossetia under their jurisdiction, but they were refused. 

You see when Russian General invides, occupies the other land they call it "expedition" "join"   And foreigner for egzample Cortes is an invider  

Before that General would annex this land, which country's was it?

The Russians Occupied Georgian territories not together, First was Kartl-kakheti, then Samegrelo and Abkhazia, Racha, Samachablo (aka S.O) and so on. and by this logic they can say that these regions are not Georgia  and were independent units  

Twice they occupied us and want to occupy again for the third time but get nothing from this

This is the country which exists on the other countries territories

[Misha]

Misha,

South Ossetia was joined to Russia in 1830 after expedition that was leading by general Paul von Rennenkampf. The Georgian princes Machabeli and Eristavi wanted to get South Ossetia under their jurisdiction, but they were refused. 

Olga, using your logic, NATO should invade Kalingrad as it was Prussian territory in the 19th century (i.e. Königsberg). The fact that South Ossetia was part of the Russian Empire in the 19th century does not matter. What matters is that at the dissolution of the Soviet Union, South Ossetia was part of the Republic of Georgia. If Russia pursues your logic, reclaiming all its "historical" territories, it will unleash the same bloodbath that embroiled Yugoslavia. The fact of the matter is that the breakup of the Soviet Union was relatively peaceful because Yeltsin and others simply accepted the division of the USSR along the existing recognized borders. If Russia goes back on this decision, it will lead to increased warfare and instability throughout the region.

[OlgaH]

South Ossetia was part of the Republic of Georgia.

Misha due to the Georgian historians South Ossetia has never been a part of Georgia till the Soviet time