Russia is at it again!

[OlgaH]

Georgia in US-financed arms race for war on Abkhazia, South Ossetia

Georgia is preparing for a US-financed war against Abkhazia and South Ossetia. That is what the country's military build-up reveals, according to a leading journalist and political analyst from Geneva. Since the current regime took power, Georgian military spending has effectively increased by over forty times and now has the highest growth-rate of any country in the world.

By Jason Cooper, 11/Nov/2007

TSKHINVALI (Tiraspol Times) - Despite not being at war with anyone, for the year 2007 the military budget of Georgia is showing the highest growth rate of any country in the world, with much of it being financed openly and directly by its key military partner, the United States.

As a result, fears run high in Tskhinvali these days.
The capital of the small Republic of South Ossetia is increasingly seen as the next target of Georgian military aggression, and many here worry that it is only a matter of time before enemy troops unleash an assault on the city.

Some international analysts agree. Vicken Cheterian, a journalist and political analyst who works for the non-profit governance organization CIMERA, based in Geneva, says that "Georgia's military plans reveal its ambition to reclaim the territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia it lost in the wars of the early 1990s."

The journalist, who is a regular contributor to Le Monde Diplomatique, points out that since the "rose revolution" of 2003-04, Georgian military spending has effectively been increased by over forty times. The majority of Georgia's arms purchases are financed directly or indirectly from Washington. Salaries for Georgian soldiers have also repeatedly been paid for by American taxpayers.

" - According to the official goal of joining NATO, Georgia needs to modernize its army, train its soldiers, and build facilities for them," he writes in an article entitled Georgia’s arms race. "But observers in Tbilisi point that out patterns of spending suggest that Georgia has other projects apart from its NATO ambitions."

U.S. money behind Georgian arms build-up

According to Cheterian, the Georgian defence ministry announced in early May 2007 that it will sharply increase its current defence budget, from 513 to 957 million lari ($304m to $567m). This escalation follows an already impressive rise in defense spending since the "Rose revolution." This means that since the arrival to power of Mikheil Saakashvili, defence spending has continued on an upward spiral.

The arms build-up is financed by the United States, he writes in the article which was published by OpenDemocracy. The money started flowing in 2002 when an eighteen-month "train and equip" program with a total budget of $64 million was started to modernize four infantry battalions and one mechanized company.

" - The army also received significant training assistance as well as equipment from the United States military," he notes. "Georgia also received valuable equipment, such as ten UH-1 transportation helicopters from the US government. The value of the US military cooperation with the Georgian armed forces in 2007 is estimated at $34 million. As a result, some 16,000 troops are now considered trained by the US military."

Most of the military build-up is concentrated against Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A modern, NATO-compatible barracks has just been built in Senaki in western Georgia not far from Abkhazia, and another one is under construction near Gori, a half-hour driving distance from Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia. According to the report, each of these bases will have the capacity to house a brigade, with a troop-strength of 3,000.

Peace in peril

Georgia's military plans have caused alarm among diplomats and others in the international community who prefer a peaceful coexistence of the various ethnic groups who inhabit the Caucasus region.

" - The fact that the two new barracks are close to the conflict-zones of Abkhazia and South Ossetia has led to concerns among both the de-facto governments of those two regions and the international community that seeks a peaceful resolution to these conflicts," explains Vicken Cheterian.

He also writes that there has been a continuous decrease of Russia's military presence parallel to the US-Georgian military cooperation.

" - The Russian military is continuing to empty its former Soviet base in Akhalkalaki, transporting equipment and ammunition into its base in Gumri, in northern Armenia. Akhalkalaki base is expected to be emptied by the end of the year, while the Russian base in Batumi the next year," he notes. "After this period the Russian presence will be limited to the CIS peacekeeping missions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia."

" - Moscow is increasingly displeased to see the NATO and specifically US military presence becoming permanent in what once was part of its southern Soviet provinces."

In what some see as a quid pro quo arrangement, Georgia now uses its military to assist the United States in unpopular wars. In return for this favor, the United States continues to oppose the right of Abkhazia and South Ossetia to independence.

" - The recent announcement in Tbilisi to increase Georgian military participation in Iraq from 850 to 2,000 comes at a time when most European nations have already started withdrawing their troops, and the Bush administration is under political pressure in Washington to come up with its own schedule to decrease troops," explains Cheterian.
He also points out that another 150 Georgian military serve in Kosovo. This is an area where NATO-led troops keep Serbia out, and where the United States State Department is actively pushing for the right of self-determination to override the territorial integrity of a metropolitan state, Serbia.

http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/news/arms_build_up_as_georgia_prepares_war_on_abkhazia_south_ossetia.html

[BC]

To be successful, both of the warring sides would have to agree to cease their hostilities. Georgia, given its desire to join Nato, would certainly agree. The challenge would be getting the Ossetians to agree to a cease fire. They are unlikely to do so as long as Russia continues providing them arms and encouraging their attacks on Georgian civilians and soldiers. The question therefore is whether Russia would be willing to help stabilize the region.

The cease fire seems to have served much of it's purpose.. Now it's up to the rest of the world to figure out how to stabilize Georgia.  I think RU will be able to stabilize the two autonomous regions.  They seem to have already started on providing the essentials i.e. water which IIRC was cut off a couple months ago.

[BC]

For decades, the strength of NATO has been to assume a posture of stability and credibility with it's partners.  With expansion, the credit is balancing out with liabilities, as many of these new nations do not bring a proportional amount of stability to the whole.  I believe NATO and EU have reached their limits long ago and have not had the time to truly digest their growth yet.

Extending an olive branch is great, but the weight of the olives is growing heavier, even threatening to break the branch.

This is quite obvious by the (in)action we have seen thus far.

[BC]

Georgia in US-financed arms race for war on Abkhazia, South Ossetia

Georgia is preparing for a US-financed war against Abkhazia and South Ossetia. That is what the country's military build-up reveals, according to a leading journalist and political analyst from Geneva. Since the current regime took power, Georgian military spending has effectively increased by over forty times and now has the highest growth-rate of any country in the world.

By Jason Cooper, 11/Nov/2007

TSKHINVALI (Tiraspol Times) - Despite not being at war with anyone, for the year 2007 the military budget of Georgia is showing the highest growth rate of any country in the world, with much of it being financed openly and directly by its key military partner, the United States.

As a result, fears run high in Tskhinvali these days.
The capital of the small Republic of South Ossetia is increasingly seen as the next target of Georgian military aggression, and many here worry that it is only a matter of time before enemy troops unleash an assault on the city.

Some international analysts agree. Vicken Cheterian, a journalist and political analyst who works for the non-profit governance organization CIMERA, based in Geneva, says that "Georgia's military plans reveal its ambition to reclaim the territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia it lost in the wars of the early 1990s."

The journalist, who is a regular contributor to Le Monde Diplomatique, points out that since the "rose revolution" of 2003-04, Georgian military spending has effectively been increased by over forty times. The majority of Georgia's arms purchases are financed directly or indirectly from Washington. Salaries for Georgian soldiers have also repeatedly been paid for by American taxpayers.

" - According to the official goal of joining NATO, Georgia needs to modernize its army, train its soldiers, and build facilities for them," he writes in an article entitled Georgia’s arms race. "But observers in Tbilisi point that out patterns of spending suggest that Georgia has other projects apart from its NATO ambitions."

U.S. money behind Georgian arms build-up

According to Cheterian, the Georgian defence ministry announced in early May 2007 that it will sharply increase its current defence budget, from 513 to 957 million lari ($304m to $567m). This escalation follows an already impressive rise in defense spending since the "Rose revolution." This means that since the arrival to power of Mikheil Saakashvili, defence spending has continued on an upward spiral.

The arms build-up is financed by the United States, he writes in the article which was published by OpenDemocracy. The money started flowing in 2002 when an eighteen-month "train and equip" program with a total budget of $64 million was started to modernize four infantry battalions and one mechanized company.

" - The army also received significant training assistance as well as equipment from the United States military," he notes. "Georgia also received valuable equipment, such as ten UH-1 transportation helicopters from the US government. The value of the US military cooperation with the Georgian armed forces in 2007 is estimated at $34 million. As a result, some 16,000 troops are now considered trained by the US military."

Most of the military build-up is concentrated against Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A modern, NATO-compatible barracks has just been built in Senaki in western Georgia not far from Abkhazia, and another one is under construction near Gori, a half-hour driving distance from Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia. According to the report, each of these bases will have the capacity to house a brigade, with a troop-strength of 3,000.

Peace in peril

Georgia's military plans have caused alarm among diplomats and others in the international community who prefer a peaceful coexistence of the various ethnic groups who inhabit the Caucasus region.

" - The fact that the two new barracks are close to the conflict-zones of Abkhazia and South Ossetia has led to concerns among both the de-facto governments of those two regions and the international community that seeks a peaceful resolution to these conflicts," explains Vicken Cheterian.

He also writes that there has been a continuous decrease of Russia's military presence parallel to the US-Georgian military cooperation.

" - The Russian military is continuing to empty its former Soviet base in Akhalkalaki, transporting equipment and ammunition into its base in Gumri, in northern Armenia. Akhalkalaki base is expected to be emptied by the end of the year, while the Russian base in Batumi the next year," he notes. "After this period the Russian presence will be limited to the CIS peacekeeping missions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia."

" - Moscow is increasingly displeased to see the NATO and specifically US military presence becoming permanent in what once was part of its southern Soviet provinces."

In what some see as a quid pro quo arrangement, Georgia now uses its military to assist the United States in unpopular wars. In return for this favor, the United States continues to oppose the right of Abkhazia and South Ossetia to independence.

" - The recent announcement in Tbilisi to increase Georgian military participation in Iraq from 850 to 2,000 comes at a time when most European nations have already started withdrawing their troops, and the Bush administration is under political pressure in Washington to come up with its own schedule to decrease troops," explains Cheterian.
He also points out that another 150 Georgian military serve in Kosovo. This is an area where NATO-led troops keep Serbia out, and where the United States State Department is actively pushing for the right of self-determination to override the territorial integrity of a metropolitan state, Serbia.

http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/news/arms_build_up_as_georgia_prepares_war_on_abkhazia_south_ossetia.html

Olga,

What surprises me most is that all this was known well before this conflict.  Enough so that the US told Mikheil Saakashvili to hold his reins multiple times - but he did not listen.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you..

[wxman]

There has been a mistrust of the Russians since the breakup of the Soviet Union. I highly doubt Georgians forgot this incident.

"The sight of Russian tanks rolling down its highways was also a searing reminder that Moscow dominated Georgia for almost two centuries, and that Soviet tanks entered the capital of Tbilisi in 1989 and soldiers beat 20 protesters to death with shovels."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/23/news/Russia-Wounded-Pride.php

[BC]

There has been a mistrust of the Russians since the breakup of the Soviet Union. I highly doubt Georgians forgot this incident.

"The sight of Russian tanks rolling down its highways was also a searing reminder that Moscow dominated Georgia for almost two centuries, and that Soviet tanks entered the capital of Tbilisi in 1989 and soldiers beat 20 protesters to death with shovels."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/23/news/Russia-Wounded-Pride.php

Russian soldiers armed with shovels.. that's bizarre

Earlier, Saakashvili's government for the first time used
force against the six-day-old mass protests, sending in riot
police to combat protesters calling for the president's
resignation.
 
"We cannot let our country become a stage for dirty
geopolitical escapades by other countries," Saakashvili said.
"Our democracy needs a firm hand by the authorities."
 
Protesters later regrouped in Tbilisi's Old Town and were
again dispersed by riot police. Around 360 people were taken to
hospital, officials said, and 109 remained hospitalised on
Wednesday evening.

so much for 'freedom of speech'

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/archives/news/world/20071107-Georgia-Tblisi-protest-opposition-Russia-diplomats.php

all this keeps reminding me of the kid that keeps crying 'wolf!'..


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seems no one gave a rats ass back then so what's all the fuss about now?

[wxman]

Russian soldiers armed with shovels.. that's bizarre

so much for 'freedom of speech'

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/archives/news/world/20071107-Georgia-Tblisi-protest-opposition-Russia-diplomats.php

all this keeps reminding me of the kid that keeps crying 'wolf!'..

Amazing that anything you post that shines a bad light on Georgia or US is to be taken as truth, but what anyone else posts that shines a bad light on Russia is to be ignored and dispelled as propaganda.  You have proven just how propaganda works!

[BC]

Amazing that anything you post that shines a bad light on Georgia or US is to be taken as truth, but what anyone else posts that shines a bad light on Russia is to be ignored and dispelled as propaganda.  You have proven just how propaganda works!

wx,

Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate.. quite ok.. really all I am searching for in this discussion is balance.  So far we've proven that we both can cut 'n paste quite well!

 

Cheers!

[wxman]

wx,

Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate.. quite ok.. really all I am searching for in this discussion is balance.  So far we've proven that we both can cut 'n paste quite well!

 

Cheers!

I enjoy debating with devil's advocates! It makes forums enjoyable! Actually I do think what you and others post are important. Both sides of the story is what is needed. Sometimes it can be eye opening and disheartening at the same time. The truth is always a grey area, somewhere in the middle.

[BC]

I enjoy debating with devil's advocates! It makes forums enjoyable! Actually I do think what you and others post are important. Both sides of the story is what is needed. Sometimes it can be eye opening and disheartening at the same time. The truth is always a grey area, somewhere in the middle.

wx,

I tip my hat (the one with the horns).

[Ronnie]

Russian soldiers armed with shovels.. that's bizarre

[edit]

http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-entrenching-shovel-1.htm

[BC]

http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-entrenching-shovel-1.htm

Sorry.. not spending $39.95 to learn how to swing..

[OlgaH]

I highly doubt Georgians forgot this incident.

"The sight of Russian tanks rolling down its highways was also a searing reminder that Moscow dominated Georgia for almost two centuries...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/23/news/Russia-Wounded-Pride.php

Over two centuries? What about the time when Georgia was under the Mongol-Tartar yoke, that was started with the campaign of Jalal-ed-Din in 1220?  Georgia rided of Mongol-Tartar yoke only in 1407...  Right after the Mongol-Tartar yoke Georgia was under the Ottoman Empire... till 1878...

Teared by the Mongol-Tartar yoke and the Ottoman Empire Georgia came to Russia to ask for help and signed treaty in 1873 with Russia, and with Russia's help Georgia restore its remains... More over the Soviet Government presented Georgia with the land of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

[wxman]

Over two centuries? What about the time when Georgia was under the Mongol-Tartar yoke, that was started with the campaign of Jalal-ed-Din in 1220?  Georgia rided of Mongol-Tartar yoke only in 1407...  Right after the Mongol-Tartar yoke Georgia was under the Ottoman Empire... till 1878...

Teared by the Mongol-Tartar yoke and the Ottoman Empire Georgia came to Russia to ask for help and signed treaty in 1873 with Russia, and with Russia's help Georgia restore its remains... More over the Soviet Government presented Georgia with the land of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Olga,

So it really is true that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are part of Georgia based on your last paragraph. So what we have been saying all along is true. Russia invaded a sovereign nation.  Once you give the give land to another nation, then the people who choose to remain there become citizens of Georgia, not Russia.

The next question arises the about our state of Alaska. Since we bought it from Russia, does that still make the natives there Russian? If so, would that would give Putin the right to attack the US if he feels they are being mistreated as he said that Russia will protect all Russian citizens no matter where they are. So are native Alaskans Russian, or Americans?

Based on previous arguments,  since the Soviet Union gave the land to Georgia, and sold Alaska to the US, the native people living in those areas would still be Russian, no matter how much time has passed. My great grandparents are from the Netherlands. That doesn't make me Dutch, nor does it give the Netherlands the right to invade the US to protect me. I'm no more Dutch than you are South African. I'm an American, just like those people from Abkhazia and South Ossetia are Georgian.

[OlgaH]

Olga,

So it really is true that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are part of Georgia based on your last paragraph.

wxman, according to your logic Georgia is a territory of Russia and people of Georgia are Russian 

[groovlstk]

It's understandable that sales of books written by Russians about Russia that are banned in Russia will not rise to the minimum sales large publishers expect. 

This is certainly not true, for a variety of reasons.

Ronnie, you and other Russophobes here are quick to embrace questionable sources yet blithely ignore anything that questions your blind righteousness. Didn't Litvinenko also say that the KGB was behind the Moscow theater seige years ago? And that the KGB trained Bin Laden's lieutenant al-Zawahiri? And that Putin is a pedophile?

C'mon, I'm no fan of Putin but I'd put as much credence in his claims as I do in the 9/11 Truthers who believe GWB blew up the WTC 

[Misha]

Ronnie, you and other Russophobes here ...

Who are all these Russophobes? And, how do you define a "Russophobe"?

[Shadow]

And, how do you define a "Russophobe"?

Someone who has fear of Russia/Russians.

[Misha]

Someone who has fear of Russia/Russians.

Well, from what I gather the term can be used to label anybody who criticizes Russia. Much like asking whether someone "hates" Russia if  they are critical of Russian policies.

[Shadow]

Well, from what I gather the term can be used to label anybody who criticizes Russia. Much like asking whether someone "hates" Russia if  they are critical of Russian policies.

Similar to put the label of Anti-American to those that do not agree with some parts of the American politics. 
Lucky there are not many Anti-Canadians. 

[Misha]

Similar to put the label of Anti-American to those that do not agree with some parts of the American politics. 
Lucky there are not many Anti-Canadians. 

Well, I for one don't like labels. Once they are applied, it makes rational discussion impossible.

[2tallbill]

Well, I for one don't like labels. Once they are applied, it makes rational discussion impossible.

How so? you could label me as conservative libertarian but then I couldn't argue ?

No, I think it's the guys who can't argue that tell everyone how they must argue
that are the problem.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

[Misha]

How so? you could label me as conservative libertarian but then I couldn't argue ?

No, I think it's the guys who can't argue that tell everyone how they must argue
that are the problem.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

Well, I for one believe in arguing ideas. Once you apply a label, so-and-so is a so-and-so then it is harder to discuss ideas. It is also makes it that much easier to have a discussion devolve into ad hominem attacks.

Besides, where was I telling other people how to argue? I simply said that I do not like labels as I find that it makes having a discussion impossible. Where do I insist that others follow my preferences? In effect, you are the one telling others how to argue, as you are attacking me for sharing my opinion.

[BC]

Well it looks like the Russians are there to stay.. I guess negotiations of a final peace deal vs current cease fire will start sometime in the future..

Meanwhile a similar process is going on elsewhere..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/25/iraq/main4379978.shtml  They are calling it a 'withdrawal agreement' but seems it's more like 'permission to stay indefinitely'.

Mary Mary, quite contrary..

[2tallbill]

Well, I for one believe in arguing ideas. Once you apply a label, so-and-so is a so-and-so then it is harder to discuss ideas. It is also makes it that much easier to have a discussion devolve into ad hominem attacks.

Besides, where was I telling other people how to argue? I simply said that I do not like labels as I find that it makes having a discussion impossible. Where do I insist that others follow my preferences? In effect, you are the one telling others how to argue, as you are attacking me for sharing my opinion.

I would never tell you how to express your ideas,

Udachi,

Bill