Wife split!

[felix8787]

... yet you maintain this ridiculous argument that he should give her another chance.

You're either a troll, a fool or an international mastermind in Green Card scams.  I can't see any other reason for your constant attacks on Maxx and William (or as in your childish way, Willy).  

Like the worse qualities that can be found in FSUW - you probably feel very clever, in reality you're just very immature and childish.

How anyone could take you seriously is beyond me!

Now that you've polluted another thread where a member came to ask for some honest advice (remember, this thread started with a member facing a crisis asking for help), would you please do us all a favour by going away and harassing your husband - or something.

I think the goals of RWD escape you.  We're not here to lead men to ruin... or to advise budding GCGs, we're supposed to be here to help those desiring genuine cross-culture relationships, particularly those from the west and FSU.  

All you seem to do is hinder reasonable advice, pollute threads, distort reality and act like a spoiled little brat!

Totally agree with what Kuna just posted. I am sorry but I had to question most of her post's she put up, because to me they sounded ridiculous. But I guess that she totally missed where Wayne posted that they only had sex on their wedding night and then she moved into the other bedroom. Which pretty much stated by that action alone that she is after that GC.
Seeing patterN's only from one post that Wayne himself said that Svetlana is a liar and could not be trusted and sent her packing.

[BC]

Guys n gals,

The last couple of tit for tat pages only muddle the situation even more.

Wayne and his wife have more than enough info to proceed with whatever path they choose.

There ain't a darn thing we can really do now except wait for the results of their (in)actions.

Doll,

You really should explore the quote function that provides links to the posts you are responding to.  Yeah it is a bit of a headache to edit the quote, but might help us understand better what you are trying to get at.  I sort of get the 'jist' but not the complete picture without having to look at all the past posts.

[Lily]

   What happen to Bella was that her only child named Michael married a Russian woman. This woman wanted out of the marriage and filed DV charges on him. He took it very hard. Within a few days he had a stroke. He was 39 years old and had been in perfect health up to that point. Bella had found him laying on the floor. Six months later he died. 

What a heartbreaking story. I cried when having read this. 
A good man died because of one RW.

Sorry that when and if AM learn that I am Russian, they may think that I could do this to them as well..

But see, why they just file DV? Why can't the wife just apply to court and tell, 'sorry, but I cannot live with this man anymore, I want to get free of him?'

[BC]

... yet you maintain this ridiculous argument that he should give her another chance.

You're either a troll, a fool or an international mastermind in Green Card scams.  I can't see any other reason for your constant attacks on Maxx and William (or as in your childish way, Willy).  

Like the worse qualities that can be found in FSUW - you probably feel very clever, in reality you're just very immature and childish.

How anyone could take you seriously is beyond me!

Now that you've polluted another thread where a member came to ask for some honest advice (remember, this thread started with a member facing a crisis asking for help), would you please do us all a favour by going away and harassing your husband - or something.

I think the goals of RWD escape you.  We're not here to lead men to ruin... or to advise budding GCGs, we're supposed to be here to help those desiring genuine cross-culture relationships, particularly those from the west and FSU.  

All you seem to do is hinder reasonable advice, pollute threads, distort reality and act like a spoiled little brat!

Kuna, other than the original post there are very few posts that touch the 'goals of RWD' as you stated.  Keep in mind that doing postmortems of dying relationships has always been quite messy. -This thread is just another example showing how men and women have difficulty communicating, ultimately leading to discord on both sides trying to squeeze in that last word.

Often, more can be said by saying nothing.. at least that is my experience.. maybe some of the other married guys have noticed the same.

[BC]

But see, why they just file DV? Why can't the wife just apply to court and tell, 'sorry, but I cannot live with this man anymore, I want to get free of him?'

If her marriage intent was bona fide, there shouldn't be much of a problem doing so...

But.. the most frequently asked questions from men in deep doodoo are:

'How do I get her kicked out of the country'
'How can I keep her from getting a green card'

Divorce is nasty business regardless of where the woman or man came from.

Home, car, money, kids, maybe even the family pet.. all pawns in a nasty little game.

As I said upthread, the green card is the only true difference .. - just another asset to fight over like cats and dogs.

[Lily]

If her marriage intent was bona fide, there shouldn't be much of a problem doing so...

But.. the most frequently asked questions from men in deep doodoo are:

'How do I get her kicked out of the country'
'How can I keep her from getting a green card'
 

But why do they want her to leave the country? The most important thing should then be to get her out of their lives, and not to deal with her ever again. She could get an order not to approach him anymore, or to move to another state, for instance. Just my revelations..

However, if an immigrant person is forced to return to his or her country, that would most likely mean starvation. A plant who was re-planted with all roots could hardly make use of their roots again, and cannot be planted back, you understand what I mean. Job lost, everything lost. It would be the survival question, then. She will not get any help from state in Russia, like welfare or something.

[Bluebell]

However, if an immigrant person is forced to return to his or her country, that would most likely mean starvation. A plant who was re-planted with all roots could hardly make use of their roots again, and cannot be planted back, you understand what I mean. Job lost, everything lost. It would be the survival question, then. She will not get any help from state in Russia, like welfare or something.

I am an immigrant but I would move back home in a heartbeat if my marriage failed. I still have my family at home, I have more connections, friends back home than here, former collegues, employers, classmates, neighbours, etc, they could all be my support network. How would it be more difficult to start life again in your home country than in a foreign land? At least, I could talk about my troubles in my mother-tongue...

[Lily]

You are a really lucky person Bluebell.

To be able to talk about troubles in your language is of course good, but the talks would hardly be enough.
 
No home any more, as your rent is gone long ago. No job any more, as your employer probably does not hire you back, and job market is tough. How does a single Russian survive this way? One could not really live on the mother's meager pension.

[Turboguy]

Well it seems to me that the majority of the men are siding with Wayne and are of the opinion that his wife is a Green Card Girl out to destroy his life on the way to a Green Card.   That most of the women are having empathy for the wife and saying she had good intentions and was unhappy in her marriage and out to try to salvage something out of it.

I see evidence both ways.  If all she wanted was a green card why was she wanting him to move to Russia?   Why haven't we already seen DV charges.  Those should have come before she moved out?   On the other side, why did she even marry him and not just go back like the last one?  Why marry and end sex and move out of the bedroom right after the wedding?   It sounds like a typical GCG action.   There are too many holes in the story to really do anything but guess at the missing parts.

Wayne seems like a really nice guy who would do all he could to make a wife happy?  But still, it seems to me that there was something missing for her.  Wayne says she knows about this thread.  It would be really good if she started posting and to hear her side and we might have the answers we guess about now but I doubt that will happen.

I have to really admire Maxx for his unending support of men who find themselves in bad situtations.  He is almost like Mother Theressa for these guys.   Still everyones situation can be different and a cookie cutter approach to all may or may not be the best solution.

I have to agree with BC.  We have expressed our ideas.  I hope Wayne keeps us posted and I hope he follows through with the good suggestions and does what he can to protect himself.

I also have to agree with BC that the reaction of many men is how do I keep her from getting a GC and get her kicked out of the country.   I also think that is not their job.  That is the job of the USCIS at which they seem to do a very poor job.  The men's goal should be to get out of their situation with a minimum of damage and to cooperate and be honest with the USCIS should they try to deport her which is not likely.   Most guys who end up in this situation have had some blame themselves, either in being naive, stupid, gullible or blind to the truth.  Something about a pretty face and nice body can make most men very susceptible to that but I think most have seen signs they chose to ignore.

[Doll]

  I advocate that the husband secretly consult with a immigration attorney and an divorce attorney that knows the immigration issues. This is what I did.

How did an immigration attorney help you? As far as I remember your ex stayed in the country. Or he told you then about possible DVC?

[Misha]

If all she wanted was a green card why was she wanting him to move to Russia?  

Turbo, here is a previous post of mine:

Well, given the odds are low for even a GCG to find a good "mule," convincing that man to sell his house and bring all his money to live with her is a pretty good option B. She can siphon every penny he has, and then dump him while continuing her search.

I am not sure how much equity he could have gotten out of the house, however hypothetically even if he arrived in Russia with a sum in the tens of thousands, I am sure she would have easily helped him spend it Then, once he was broke, if they had not sorted out the immigration issues, then she would have said goodbye and moved on.

Why haven't we already seen DV charges.  Those should have come before she moved out?

Well, based solely on what Wayne wrote, she expected to get her permanent green card without him. Remember, Wayne wrote that she moved back because her lawyer told her that she had to in order to not put at risk her green card.

On the other side, why did she even marry him and not just go back like the last one?  Why marry and end sex and move out of the bedroom right after the wedding?

Well, once married she had a marriage license and likely figured that her husband Wayne would do nothing. She was right. He did file the paperwork.

It sounds like a typical GCG action.

Is there a GCG manual? Is there a typical GCG action?

Most guys who end up in this situation have had some blame themselves, either in being naive, stupid, gullible or blind to the truth. Something about a pretty face and nice body can make most men very susceptible to that but I think most have seen signs they chose to ignore.

Here I agree with you. This is the result of men rushing to be married, proposing to a woman they barely know, quite often deluding themselves into thinking they will be the exception.

[Gator]

The most important thing should then be to get her out of their lives, and not to deal with her ever again.

That would be the pragmatic, reasonable and healthy approach.  

But why do they want her to leave the country?

Many men feel they are the victim of a hoax, and they become vindictive.  Deprivation of her GC is about the only revenge they can seek.  

[Frenchdude]

For God's sake Wayne, come to your senses. Read VERY CAREFULLY what Maxx2 wrote. I have been married to a Russian woman and divorced 2 years later. If you don't find a way of keeping at a very safe distance from this bitch, she is going to ruin your life for good. MOVE TEMPORARILY to another place, ask your friend, your family, do something, anything so that your path never ever cross again. Or else she is going to sue the s__t out of you, she will pretend you have raped or battered her or raped her daughter or something like that. I know Russians very well. Most of them are simply not "civilized" the way we understand it. They would go to any length to get their way. Moral sense is totally absent from their vocabulary. Cut your losses NOW!

[Lily]

  I know Russians very well. Most of them are simply not "civilized" the way we understand it. They would go to any length to get their way. Moral sense is totally absent from their vocabulary. 

Mille fois pardon Frenchdude, but if one is not able to tell good apples from the bad ones, the whole Russian nation is not to blame..Sorry for your bad luck

[Maxx2]

What a heartbreaking story. I cried when having read this. 
A good man died because of one RW.

Sorry that when and if AM learn that I am Russian, they may think that I could do this to them as well..

Many Russian woman cannot do this. I believe Doll could not do this even though she could have taken that route when her husband sent her back to Russia with divorce papers in her hand. Then some Russian women will do it but reluctantly. I believe my Russian ex-wife was of that sort. Her reluctance however was not so much because she did not want to hurt me. She went out of her way to hurt me plenty during our brief marriage. Her reluctance was based on her lack of trust of the authorities and the stresses of having a trial, shelter living, etc. Once she did it and seen the authorities would roll over and play her game she did her best to humiliate and hurt me. No need to explain the details. Then there are Russian women who will file the DV charges willingly and with glee. They go for maximum hurt and damage to their husbands. If they could put him in prison or drive him to suicide they wouldn't care. Many times they get so carried away with this that their stories become so unbelievable and outlandish that they hurt their credibility.  

Lily, I would be foolish to say you are a good woman because I never met you. But I know that there are many good Russian women and you may very well be one of them. Good luck to you.

Maxx      

[Maxx2]

But.. the most frequently asked questions from men in deep doodoo are:

'How do I get her kicked out of the country'
'How can I keep her from getting a green card'

That is the most common questions I get. In fact about 99% of them are those. I had a American woman who wanted to deport her husband from Somali whom she had divorced 10 years earlier. He was a US citizen for those 10 years. When I told her it was impossible I could sense she had no more use for me and our conversation quickly ended. Another American woman who contacted me was married to a Nigerian man. She has been and is currently so on a campaign with the government, hers and his, to get him punished for using her and to get her back child support. Their divorce and total separation (she hasn't seen him since) was back in 1979. Their daughter she wants child support for is 28 years old. Women seem to take this the hardest and have the most difficult time letting go.


Maxx   

[William3rd]

Rabie cases are hard to set up and really require ignorance on the part of the alien.  I have seen three cases- A Russian woman, a Syrian man, and a Guatemalan man- where we have had a shot at annulment. On the other hand, a couple of dozen VAWA cases and only one was turned down ( because of a prior annulment based on fraud that the client "forgot" to tell us about.)

The Russian/Ukrainian support groups work awfully hard to put the right facts in order. Hence, the DV charge. "I vas here in good faith but ze bad bad man he beat me; he vant me to be the prostitute." Nice touch, trying to be beaten AND trafficked.  . . .

There is a ring up in Ventura County that promises a dozen DV cases a year to immigration firms for a "finder's fee."

The problem that these good folks have is that a finding of annulment makes the marriage as if it never was. Thus, a state court judicial finding then stops the green card. . . .

The only advice-

if it doesnt seem like a marriage, it isnt. It is not culture shock, homesickness, lack of English or (pick standard excuse). If there are symptoms of infidelity, then there is infidelity, not culture shoCk, homesickness, etc.  Infidelity violates the marital contract.

Move quickly and decisively. Document your every move.  You cant talk to a green card girl- she tries to go DV once she is found out. Maxx has it right. You move out and have the process server waiting. No communications with her without a witness.

[Maxx2]

How did an immigration attorney help you? As far as I remember your ex stayed in the country. Or he told you then about possible DVC?

He told me that she would make DV charges to get a GC. He told me how I would be set up by her (overturned furniture,self inflicted scratches on her arms and face and a 911 call) and how to avoid this. The immigration attorney told me what divorce attorney I should use. He was a man experienced in these cases. The divorce attorney told me the same thing the immigration attorney did. I asked him "what are the chance she will file a DV charge on me?". He told me "100% she will." and then went on and explained that the INS will ask her "Were you ever abused? If you were you can fill out these documents and you will get your green card" So it's a 100% certainty she will. She has nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing so." He then told me all the steps to take to avoid the usual DV charges that she would make to support her I-360 self petition (for abused spouses). I followed his advise except in one area. Two Russian woman I know when I told them I was going to have her process served they said that was cruel. That I should talk with her first. I did and she used this against me by making up a wild story about our meeting. I explained this meeting elsewhere on this board. VWRW noted that my ex didn't seem like such a bad person. What VWRW seen was my ex's limitation from giving aggressive confrontation. She was just very sad. But later she did what she did and no doubt felt justified in doing so. The same justifications that many here use for filing false DV charges. It is a mess this whole system.  


Maxx

[Maxx2]

Many men feel they are the victim of a hoax, and they become vindictive.  Deprivation of her GC is about the only revenge they can seek.  

I was talking with attorney married to a Russian woman. He had the same viewpoint you have Gator. I asked him "If the husband is certain that his wife had used him to get a green card and never had any intentions of making the marriage work wouldn't his likely reaction be to deny her this? That to allow her to keep what she used fraud to get would be like rewarding the bank robber with the bank?"  I could tell the question was one he never heard before.

Vindictiveness and revenge are often confused with seeking justice. I do not advocate a long campaign in seeking justice. It is likely not to happen. Sometimes the victim of marriage fraud in going after justice becomes vindictive and revengeful. That ends up adding to the hurt done by the fraudulent spouse (See the above two cases of AW seeking "justice").     

Maxx

[WmGO]

I say A woman would never ( in 99%) leave her husband if she is an immigrant with a kid and the life is acceptable.

This is malarkey, especially when the matter involves WM-FSUW.

The relevant inquiry always and ONLY revolves around true love
and true commitment. If these things were non-existant fromt the
beginning then it would be very easy for any women, especially an
FSUW to do the things that Wayne's FSUW has done.

[WmGO]

not really- you are what you are.

Evil is still evil, whether you put sugar on it or not.

Agree, and of course we are both assuming Wayne has provided
an accurate rendering of the facts. Assuming those facts are
accurate, there can be only one rational, logical conclusion, and
it is an ugly reality.

IMO, Wayne should follow William3rd's and Maxx's advices. Unfortunately,
it appears that he prefers to be a doormat. To the average FSUW, this
will only further justify what she has done, what she is doing and what
she intends to do.....

 

[WmGO]

Speaking of sex- nobody has to have it in marriage.

True, but most women and men need, want and desire it. Any
professional counselor will tell you that it is a very important part
of a normal healthy and loving relationship between husband and
wife.  99% of human beings worldwide know this.

Refusing relations after the wedding night speaks volumes (if true).

[WmGO]

It's quite apparent to me that Doll is playing the gender card. Fine. Her assumptions
are shots in the dark at best.

We (my wife and I) have several FSU ladies in our circle of friends who came over
on K-1s that did not work out - with the glaringly common reason being they saw
fit to flee controlling men. I would say that in our experience watching others' train
wrecks, these controlling-husband cases far outnumber GCG situations, so Doll, I do
understand both sides of the story. And recognize well the difference.

In Wayne's case, I see a GCG clearly. Among my wife's girlfriends who have moved on,
none had denied their husbands in the bedroom, none had run out to find boyfriends,
none helped themselves to computers,
and all were quite actively participating in their marriages with respect to shopping,
cleaning, ESL classes, learning to drive, managing the finances (which, in my opinion,
they do a better job than the average American man like myself). In short, these
ladies gave the marriage an honest effort, and here comes the important part, Doll -

FOR A REASONABLY LONG PERIOD OF TIME

NOT the day after the wedding, NOT when the AOS packet
went ker-plunk into a mailbox. They spent YEARS, Doll, YEARS, before they
got fed up and left. Their respective departures were no surprise.

THIS particular lady was chock full 'o suprises. Now that her pattern has
been noticed, it's not difficult to predict her next move - which is why,
of course, I recommend Wayne get an attorney - to protect what is left,
and to prevent a future Criminal Record - which will result if she is
allowed to have free run of the house, installing locks on rooms, and
whatever other immature and childish behavior she is capable of.

It boils down to character - this lady wouldn't fit into my
wife's circle of friends. That's not arrogance speaking.

Just a fact based on what we know. We don't gender discriminate.

Vaughn


 

That is what I call hitting the nail on the head.

[vwrw]

I am not sure how much equity he could have gotten out of the house, however hypothetically even if he arrived in Russia with a sum in the tens of thousands, I am sure she would have easily helped him spend it

Misha, I think you are right and what you say was the true albeit latent intention for offering to relocate.
In my opinion your idea regarding her intention is rather a proof  that seeking a sponsor is main incentive of the woman, not GC.  

[WmGO]

Turboguy, she waited until the day AFTER they got married to cut him off and move into another bedroom. If you can't see that that makes her a certified Green Card Girl there is no hope for you.


Maxx

Exactly.
It is called a no brainer.
Then, some have no brains.
Or self respect.
It is a sad tale certain to be repeated again and again.....