Professional vs Blue Collar....Your Opinion

[dobradavid]

College education does not mean your smart.  Street smarts is more important than book smarts IMO.  I usually fire or transfer Ivy league graduates right away as they spend more time talking about things than doing something.  Give me a poor kid with a hunger to succeed any day regardless of schooling and you can train them to do what is needed.

Many girls I have met in Ukraine put more importance on money than job title.  However I do not date Lawyers, doctors,etc. in Ukraine.  I have dated some politicians but they were not agency girls. 

And yet...every study ever done shows a positive correlation between education and income. 

[dobradavid]

We are still not focusing on the concepts of compatibility of interests in couples.  Chemistry, attractions, love feelings are all great and are all part of the relationship.. but at the end of the day compatibility is what keeps people together.

I think many gents tend to focus on external physical attraction rather than the individual AS an individual. 

[Sculpto]

Blues.. I think you already know the answer to your question.. however, as bgreed pointed out in reaction to my hypergeneralization about "plumbers with a lot of CRACK"    There are a lot of exceptionally intelligent, well read and intellectual carpenters in the world, not to mention electricians, plumbers, welders and so on.  Being blue collar, with or without some kind of degree has little or no bearing on the intelligence, aspirations, or real world education of an individual. 

I have two "expectation breaker" examples..

I have one friend who is on the outside the "rugged individualistic" type of guy who works as an auto body specialist.. you will never see him in anything but jeans, t-shirt and plaid.. yet he is an awesome musician, poet, chef and suprisingly sensitive who asked to borrow my copy of Gogol's "Dead Souls" after I finish because he took my recomendation seriously. 

I have another friend who is a high powered lawyer that has presented cases before the US Supreme court.  He wears expensive suits and drives an expensive German car, yet, in his free time he is obsessed with shooting, riding offroad motorcyles, and actually attends WWE wrestling matches and is an arrogant pain in the ass who hasn't read anything but legal briefs, the Wall Street Journal and Maxim magazine since he graduated from Law School.  So, go figure?!?!?!

[Sculpto]

I think many gents tend to focus on external physical attraction rather than the individual AS an individual. 

David, I think you have gotten to the heart of why some guys marriages crash and burn. 

[FredC]

I will use myself as a personal example. I am what would be considered blue collar. I do not have a degree, I got my training in the military. I can explain in detail the operation of a nuclear reactor or weapon. I can also explain in detail how radiation interacts with matter or human cells. I am also trained/ cross trained in operations, maintenance and chemistry among other things. I am well read and travelled. I could also care less about WWF and NASCAR...LOL.

I make a very good living. Until Americans unplug their houses, I will always be able to find a job. Except as far as my 401k goes, I could care less about how Wall Street is doing. I live within my means, so I don't need the government's bail out plan. Yet I know of people graduating with degrees that are so far in student loan debt that they will not be solvent until they reach retirement....lol

[kievstar]

dobradavid, you will find in Ukraine many rich do not have high education.  Your statement about all surveys done show education and income have a correlation is true for 4 year degrees in most countries but not all.  In USA 20% of millionaires have no college education compared to 18% having more than a 2-4 year degree (i.e. masters, PHD, law, doctor).  % of millionaires with no college has been raising past 5 years.  But going for high level degree (beyond bachelors) seems to not payoff unless your forced too in fields for lawyers and doctors. 

Here are some rich people with no college.  See link below

http://www.college-startup.com/college/15-successful-entrepreneurs-who-didnt-need-college/

General Motors has the highest number of Harvard MBA's of any other company in the world.  Look how well they have done the past 20 years.  Ford is third. 

Another interesting stat is most millionaires never divorced and are married for 30 plus years.  Most women married these men when not millionaires and went through the rough times before being rich. 

[OlgaH]

for example.. I know a bunch of carpenters that have advanced degrees in many fields.. even a couple of physicists... but for whatever reason they have chosen to cut wood and bang nails instead of making nuclear weapons or whatever...

Russia 1998. I had a problem with a water system so I called a plumber. The plumber noticed a book on the kitchen table. It was Arthur Schopenhauer. He looked at the book and cited "“Any book, which is at all important, should be reread immediately” An expression of my face did not need any words and he added "Oh, no. I'm not going to reread Schopenhauer right know, but I think we have an interesting subject to talk about..." So we had a wonderful conversation about philosophy while he was working ... The plumber was a Doctor of Philosophy.     

[roykirk]

I'm generally in agreement with BF's thoughts.  When I was dating AW, I usually wouldn't consider dating someone below my education level (undergrad degree).  There were occasional exceptions, but experience taught me that I didn't have a tremendous amount in common with those women who hadn't been through a university program of some sort.  When I began searching for FSU women, I kept my search criteria the same...at least a university level education.  I readily admit such criteria may have caused me to overlook some potentially wonderful women I could have really "clicked" with, but there's no looking back now.  I'm very happy with who I found.   

[dobradavid]

dobradavid, you will find in Ukraine many rich do not have high education.  Your statement about all surveys done show education and income have a correlation is true for 4 year degrees in most countries but not all.  In USA 20% of millionaires have no college education compared to 18% having more than a 2-4 year degree (i.e. masters, PHD, law, doctor).  % of millionaires with no college has been raising past 5 years.  But going for high level degree (beyond bachelors) seems to not payoff unless your forced too in fields for lawyers and doctors. 

Here are some rich people with no college.  See link below

http://www.college-startup.com/college/15-successful-entrepreneurs-who-didnt-need-college/

General Motors has the highest number of Harvard MBA's of any other company in the world.  Look how well they have done the past 20 years.  Ford is third. 

Another interesting stat is most millionaires never divorced and are married for 30 plus years.  Most women married these men when not millionaires and went through the rough times before being rich. 

It's important to recognize when your personal sense of value is wrapped up in an issue. Is this is true for you - and I think it is - then the below will mean nothing. In basketball, height is associated with success. There are shorter basketball players, but there are not many 6 foot startes in the NBA.

"Education and income: More learning is key to higher earnings. Education and income: More learning is key. to higher earnings. Median usual weekly earnings of full-time wage-and-salary workers. aged 25 or older, 2005.

www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2006/fall/oochart.pdf

[Sculpto]

But really who cares about the relevance of education/earnings statistics.  I know a union carpenter with no education beyond his "jouneyman card" that makes half a million a year on his real estate holdings and drives a Lambo.  I know a lawyer who does a lot of pro-bono work that makes less than 100k and dresses like a bum and rides a bike with one gear and no brakes because he thinks its "cool".  Both are interesting people.

If you focus on earnings as a measure of self worth you are already in defecit in my book. 

I don't make a lot, but, I have a really interesting life.  I had not a big problem, just took a long time, to find a lady who not only will be happy with this set of conditions but actually prefers it.  There is someone for everyone if you take the time to look.

But, in the long term.. it will still depend on compatibility.  If you are a rich guy, educated or not, but have focused on arm candy without consideration of compatibility all you have done is "bought" a temporary wife and you will get exactly what you deserve inthe end.

more than .02 kopeks

[dobradavid]

I don't make a lot, but, I have a really interesting life.

And that's what counts - no one ever got rich in education either - but it does not mean I shut my eyes to reality - I have children I have to help thru life.

[dobradavid]

I will use myself as a personal example. I am what would be considered blue collar. I do not have a degree, I got my training in the military.

Thank you for your service. 

[Mars]

To address the OPs direct question, I think the man should not first be thinking about whether he should be searching for a highly educated woman or a less educated woman. 

He should merely be searching for a woman who has some equivalency to his own education AND intelligence. 

As others have pointed out, education does not necessarily equate to intelligence, and not all intelligent people have a high education.  However, they generally go hand in hand, so education is a good criteria to use since it is hard to administer IQ tests via email.  As a shortcut, I usually send an equation and ask the ladies to find the differential or integration solution!  :-))

Also important, as others have said, has the person kept learning or stopped all once a degree is achieved?

I believe there is quite a bit of validity to the hypothesis the OP presented that there is a good chance lower educated FSUW will be happier in USA than those higher educated, especially if bringing in some money early in the game is their goal.

However, for sufficiently young (definition left open to the circumstances) ladies educated in the professions who desire and are willing to go through the re-certification process, there can be immediate and long term happiness.  Immediate if they (like myself) love being involved in the education process, as well as the subsequent work phase.

[Mars]

I will use myself as a personal example. I am what would be considered blue collar. I do not have a degree, I got my training in the military.  I can explain in detail the operation of a nuclear reactor or weapon.

Really??

[Gator]

Really??

Those who serve on a nuclear sub are highly trained, very highly trained.  Anything less would be ridiculous considering the implications. 

[BillyB]

Those who serve on a nuclear sub are highly trained, very highly trained.  Anything less would be ridiculous considering the implications. 

They are also some of the smartest people in the Navy. When I was 16 years old and scoring in the top 1% in the nation on tests they administer to high school students, the Navy wrote a letter to my parents, since I was underaged for them to approach me, and ask them to encourage me to sign up for their nuclear and ROTC program.

I didn't like the idea of being in a nuclear sub for months at a time and away from the girls so what am I doing now? I'm working with dirt for a living.

[I/O]

I suspect being a “Tradie” is much harder to sell to any RW than being a “Professional”. That said, down here the worm has well and truly turned the last 5 – 7 years. When it comes to cash, the Tradies rule (almost) now.

My 2 nephews, 28 and 25 respectively, the first a well qualified Engineer, the second a Diesel Fitter (Heavy Mechanic). The second earns near twice the money of the first and the first isn’t on peanuts.  I know which will provide the more affluent lifestyle for Mrs Him at a later time but equally, I wouldn’t like his chances of selling that to someone halfway around the world.

[elliott]

...the second a Diesel Fitter (Heavy Mechanic). The second earns near twice the money of the first...but I wouldn’t like his chances of selling that to someone halfway around the world.

Yep, Diesel Techs are always in demand, and they make good money.  If a guy was frugal, he could have some serious cash saved up after a few years.  But I agree that to tell his foreign dream girl that he's just a mechanic and gets filthy dirty everyday laboring under/over equipment would probably elicit a pessimistic attitude from her.  I'm afraid that since he's not "Professional", many women would immediately favor others over him.  Little do they know that he could buy out the bank and that he has almost guaranteed job security.

[ECOCKS]

Sorry but I find this sooo amusing.

I mean are you checking to see whether they got a red diploma or a blue one too?

This reminds me of the guys who insist on having a full medical checkup prior to seriously considering the gal as marriage potential. I mean are you having their teeth checked and looking for joint issues too? How about getting a full MRI before deciding whether you'll go on date number 6? Is the discussion of a pre-nup come before they take the Mensa test or is that prior to starting the K-1 process?

You guys keep going down your checklists, my advice remains to find someone you are in love with.

[Boethius]

You guys keep going down your checklists, my advice remains to find someone you are in love with.

That takes too long, and is too subjective, hence, "unquantifiable".

[greg2654]

I'm a skilled tradesman and Irina was a college professor in Moscow. I specifically looked for someone with an education and skill set that would transfer well. I also looked for someone who was successful and happy in Moscow because they would be that way here also.

We don't have any problems with different jobs because our earning capacity is similar. We're on the same path to reach our life goals. Personality wise we balance each other quite well. On the whole this worked out well for us.

You guys keep going down your checklists, my advice remains to find someone you are in love with.

Love develops over time. Lust is instant.

[Jumper]

That takes too long, and is too subjective, hence, "unquantifiable".

devils advocate-

You can equally love someone that isn't *right* for you,or you for them,  as well.
,because of the mentioned quaifiers and many other things.

if it was as *simple* as love , or love conquers all, i'd still be married.

while i don't advise having her teeth checked by the second date, or going over her college exam scores,
having some quantifiable parameters is important long term
(and no not the usual "good ethics/character ,generally compatable qualities  those are a given)

it seems simple,I agree, but  if it was  that basic ,
then the divorce rate wouldn't be around  50% ..

 

[JR]

If you completely ignore this thread as irrelevant you do so to your own peril.

My ex had two Red Diplomas from Gnessin State Musical College in Moscow. It was probably her greatest heart break to not achieve what she considered her due rewards. She never got over that. Artists will have a greater tie-on with their careers. Doing anything "beneath" her was simply out of the question.

The presentation of your life (AM) and how they (RW) will fit into it needs to be made clear before the wedding. Their role in "the partnership" should be visible to them so that they can make an informed decision as to whether or not the can accept the new career (or lack thereof), life, country, family, etc.

[Boethius]

I suspect, AJ, that our definitions of love differ. 

JR, there are plenty of real artists, I mean, world class artists, throughout history that did menial jobs.  Your ex was just the spoiled daughter of commie apparatchiks.

[I/O]

Sorry but I find this sooo amusing.

I mean are you checking to see whether they got a red diploma or a blue one too?

This reminds me of the guys who insist on having a full medical checkup prior to seriously considering the gal as marriage potential. I mean are you having their teeth checked and looking for joint issues too? How about getting a full MRI before deciding whether you'll go on date number 6? Is the discussion of a pre-nup come before they take the Mensa test or is that prior to starting the K-1 process?

Did you read the original question/s?

my advice remains to find someone you are in love with.

Fotunately the advice is free.