Why do Russian women prefer Western men?

[Jooky]

To answer the original question, this news item may help.

The article would help if the question was "Why do Russian women prefer Eastern men?" 

It is hard to believe but you can't argue with the marriage records.

It would be interesting to see the actual statistics. The article you linked to seems deliberately misleading. Here's what the article says:

During the first half of 2007, there were more than 60,000 marriages in the Russian capital, a quarter of which were between native Muscovite – typically an ethnic Russian woman -- and a citizen of a neighboring country – more often than not a man from Azerbaijan or Central Asia.

Breaking it down, here's the part from the actual research (which is not referenced or directly quoted):

a quarter of which were between native Muscovite and a citizen of a neighboring country

So 25% of these marriages were between a Muscovite (man or woman) and a foreigner (man or woman from any country). That's believable.

The Muscovite is qualified with "typically an ethnic Russian woman". That could mean half of the the 25%. The foreigner is qualified with "more often than not a man from Azerbaijan or Central Asia". That could be another half. These men could also be ethnic Russian but coming from Central Asia.

So what are the actual stats of ethnic Russian woman marrying non ethnic Russian foreigners from Central Asia? They could be 0% and the statement made in the article could still be true. I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I'm sure the actual statistics are somewhere between 0% and 25%.

The point is, this is typical of 'research'. Take the facts and present them in a way to support your theory. Without the actual statistics, this article is meaningless.

[Blues Fairy]

...to say nothing of the fact that far from all ethnic Muslims (Tatars, Bashkirs etc) are actually practicing Muslims.

In fact there is a strong popular prejudice against Muslims in Russia, especially in Moscow in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks.   

[OlgaH]

It would be interesting to see the actual statistics.

I just could find a two years old statistic. According to a leading research worker of Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, Russian Academy of Sciences Olga Kurbatova the 25% of Moscow women choose the migrants from the Caucasus. The number of marriages with Georgians, Azerbaijanians and other nations from Caucasus (including Dagestanians and Chechens) has started to increase dramatically. 58% of marriages in Moscow are marriages with migrants. The half of such marriages is proforma.
http://www.dnatree.ru/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4

[Misha]

http://www.dnatree.ru/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4

What is interesting to note is that ethnic Russian Moscow women, according to this article, are twice as likely to marry men from another ethnic group than Moscow men. Makes you wonder who the men are marrying. I presume ethnic Russians from other regions of Russia.

Also, this article notes a decline in the number of women marrying foreigners from the West. They write: "Зато к западным женихам москвички резко охладели. Если 10-20 лет назад россиянки только и мечтали выскочить замуж за миллионера из Америки или Европы, то сейчас число браков с иностранцами снизилось примерно на 10%. Дело в том, что раньше существовал "железный занавес", и представления о загранице были как о сказке, мечте. Сейчас россияне много ездят и видят, что жизнь за границей, может, и привлекательная, но все же менее удобна, нежели на родине."

[OlgaH]

Here is another statistic

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23959/72419/

[Sculpto]

Here is another statistic

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23959/72419/

FWIW I am not suprised by these statistics.  I think there is something similiar going on with AW, though I don't have statistics... just two anecdotes.. one of a friend and another of a client.

My friend lived in Silicon Valley.  This region is notorious as being exceptionally advantageous for women as there are a lot more men than women in this area.  My friend got involved with an Indian man here on an H1B and married him, even though she was worried that he might be using her for permanent residence.  Her rationale was this man treated her much better than any American man she had ever been with, was romantic and doted on her.  She is a very attractive red head who never lacked for attention from men, but, too many American guys got her into bed with false promises...

The other was a client.  She was a very succesfull business woman and married a guy from Morrocco.  It was clear that she was wearing the pants and had all the power in the relationship.  Nevertheless and even though she was rather unattractive physically and had a rotten personality IMO it seemed pretty clear this man adored his wife.  They were as mismatched as mismatched could be, but, I am quite sure this woman could never have found an AM who would have married her and put up with her controlling tendencies.  The Morroccan guy seemed content.

So, I wonder if the same dynamics are at work in Russia?

[OlgaH]

Oh, Sorry it was wrong link.

[Misha]

Misha, look at the male and female marriage statistic 2000 

http://www.localcensus.com/city/Moscow/Idaho

I will keep this in mind if ever I participate in a women of Moscow Idaho forum 

[ambach123]

Olga, thanks for the links, but could you please translate them in English; or better just give us your summation in English.
Thanks.

[OlgaH]

Misha, sorry I copied the wrong link and now I can not find the link with marriage statistic in Russian Moscow.

Here is the statistic of 2002 All-Russia Population Census.
 Males and females by age groups and marital status
http://www.perepis2002.ru/index.html?id=87

             

[Chicagoguy]

Sorry for a slight off topic, but are you sure about Chicago? There is a big number of Ukrainians and Poles there, not the Russians, or?

Sorry for the delay.

My Russian friends say 145,000 Russians in Chicago.

[OlgaH]

Makes you wonder who the men are marrying.

If you take the urban population age 25-29 (statistic of 2002 All-Russia Population Census) you will see that there are more single males than females. The table I wanted to post (and now can not find  ) showed that in Moscow in 2000 the number of single men (20-30 y.o.) prevailed over number of single women of the same age.

[Misha]

If you take the urban population age 25-29 (statistic of 2002 All-Russia Population Census) you will see that there are more single males than females. The table I wanted to post (and now can not find  ) showed that in Moscow in 2000 the number of single men (20-30 y.o.) prevailed over number of single women of the same age.

Well, it would be interesting to know if they were single by choice. Given the desirability for many Russians to live in Moscow because of jobs, you would think that a single Russian man in Moscow could easily get married as he could offer his wife the possibility of getting a Moscow propiska and if he has an apartment this would also be a strong selling point in finding a wife.

[OlgaH]

Well, it would be interesting to know if they were single by choice. Given the desirability for many Russians to live in Moscow because of jobs, you would think that a single Russian man in Moscow could easily get married as he could offer his wife the possibility of getting a Moscow propiska and if he has an apartment this would also be a strong selling point in finding a wife.

Misha, women who come to Moscow from other region of Russia and countries of FSU looking for a job don't have such money to pay to Moscow man for propiska  if they have it is just a single cases. More over it is more dangerous for a Moscow man to have such "contract" - marriage, propiska, child, divorce and half of apartments is her 

[Misha]

Misha, women who come to Moscow from other region of Russia and countries of FSU looking for a job don't have such money to pay to Moscow man for propiska 

I did not say pay for a propiska, rather I was alluding to the fact that it should make him a more eligible bachelor 

if they have it is just a single cases. More over it is more dangerous for a Moscow man to have a such "contract" - marriage, propiska, child, divorce and half of apartments is her 

This answers my question. It is not that they can't find a woman who will marry them, rather they see marriage as a riskier proposition.

[OlgaH]

Olga, thanks for the links, but could you please translate them in English; or better just give us your summation in English.
Thanks.

For 7 months there were registered 44 000 marriage, every fourth marriage was international.


International marriage statistic in Moscow.

                                                  1955                    1995-2005
RW-Ukranian man                          23%                      12,3%
RW-Belorussian man                       9,3%                     1,7%
RW-Jewish man                             10,3%                    4,4%
RW-Georgian man                          1,2%                      8,7%
RW-Azerbaijanian man                     1%                        6,8%
RW-Armenian man                           2,9%                     11,9%
RW-other Caucasians                      0,2%                      4,4%

1,3 million people in Moscow work in trade spheres, 70% of the them are women. Many trade outlets are owned by Caucasians, only Azerbaijanians in Moscow are more than 900 000 , therefore plenty of "office" love affair.

Many migrants from counties of FSU marry RW to get Moscow residency. A fictitious marriage cost $500-$5000.

[OlgaH]

I did not say pay for a propiska, rather I was alluding to the fact that it should make him a more eligible bachelor 

This answers my question. It is not that they can't find a woman who will marry them, rather they see marriage as a riskier proposition.

That's true. Moscow men are usually looking for a woman with Moscow residency.

[ChrisBfla]

Maybe none of the above.  It's because we can cook!  I know my wife from Ukraine was very, very happy that I was a really good cook.  She thought I was unique until she met other Russian and Ukrainian- American couples  where the man did the majority of the cooking.  My wife still makes excellent Borscht and other dishes but Russina style cooking is quite time consuming.  I can turn out a great meal in under an hour.

Chris

[Lily]

Sorry for the delay.

My Russian friends say 145,000 Russians in Chicago.

Sure they don't take Ukrainians for Russians? In 2002-2003 I was living in Chicago, im Ukrainian Village, and as far as I could remember, the Ukrainians amout about the number that you brought up...I met a handful of Russians, and asked about any communities, but they say not in Chicago. It is not the point of this thread, however.

[catzenmouse]

Russian women and Ukrainian women are completely different, at least the way the view foreigners.

Russia has had interactions with Central Asia for over a thousand years. Muslims make up about 15% of their population.

It is hard to believe but you can't argue with the marriage records.

Interesting opinions from someone who has never been there. But then again "someone" always seems to "know" all there is to know when they want to offer an opinion.

[neo]

from my own experience she gave her reasons as thinking a western man would treat her better and she would do better out of a divorce in a western court than russian.

she was sadly wrong on both counts.

[Brianinaz]

Well, i agree with some of the answers to this question, but to my mind the main reason is that RW want to have better life for their family and they want to be sure that their kids will have future. To my mind, this is the reason number 1! It is my own point of view, but many men many minds

I have read with interest in this and other threads about comments related to the economic drive in RU/WM relations.

Some things seem to be intuitively obvious: humans are creatures who maximize opportunity for our benefit; it is why we have over-run the planet, we will (women in general especially) do what is best for our children; we desire to be happy and safe.

Here is some interesting information. If you look at the number of women from different countries that have profiles on a given web sites (I used the AFA site because the search engine gives a total number of profiles for a given search criteria rather than continuing page numbers) for instance for Russia and Ukraine there are 12,891 profiles for Ukrainian women and 6,415 profiles for Russian women. The estimated 2008 population of Ukraine according to the CIA fact book (http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html) is 45,994,288 whereas for Russia it is 140,702,096. Using quick and dirty 50/50 men/women numbers approximately .056% of women from Ukraine and .0091% of women from Russia or 5.6 in 10,000 and 9.1 in 100,000 respectively have a profile with AFA. That's more than a 5 fold difference. Why do you think that is?

The Soviets did a pretty good job of mixing everyone around (my wife's mother is from Siberia and her father is from Ukraine and they met in a weapons manufacturing plant that they had both been sent to) and making things uniform and having traveled in both countries I don't see a big difference in culture and values so one must ask the question why the big difference? The obvious answer is economics. Until recently the Russian economy has improved significantly compared to the late 90's whereas the Ukrainian economy has at best improved marginally.

If you compare the standard of living of either place to here, even with the gains made in Russia there is a huge difference. 

One thing you can say for sure is that all of these dating sites domestic or foreign are economically driven. If you think there's anyone out there trying to "bring people together" for the sake of it then you're delusional. If you look at international dating sites do you find many that are many oriented to WM relocating to the FSU or AW/RM sites? No, why do you think that is? If it's just that RM are horrible and there are all these wonderful RW and there is just a short supply of wonderful AW then you would think there would be a market for "a move to the FSU and find your dreams" site, wouldn't you think?  Some enterprising person would fill the space if there was a market for it.
Anyway many look at economic motivation in a negative way. Economic motivation is a broad and I think misleading term. The 20 yo who marries a 65 yo millionaire and the 35 yo who wants someone with a stable financial situation for her and her child are both economically motivated to a degree but it’s the degree that counts.

The desire for a safe and secure situation is a basic human drive. I think to ignore that is to not be realistic. As with many things I think that in our attempt to neatly categorize things we lose the importance of the shades of gray. I think most women who are looking for a foreign partner are to some degree “economically motivated”.  Is it the only motivation for most?  No, for most it’s a combination of all the reasons people write about.  It’s the degree that separates the gold digger from the woman that wants security for herself and her child and truly loves the man she marries.

There are exceptions to the generalization. There are a few women who meet a foreigner and it’s just about love but those are the exceptions. Those are the women with really good jobs etc. who would prefer you move there. However you’re not going to find many of those girls on a foreign dating site.

[SilverBUllet]

Well, i agree with some of the answers to this question, but to my mind the main reason is that RW want to have better life for their family and they want to be sure that their kids will have future. To my mind, this is the reason number 1! It is my own point of view, but many men many minds

Money, money, money makes the world go around. I just hope all these American men can deliver and provide the life style these ladies want. In Russia and Ukraine there are many wealthy men too, many far richer than the ones marrying Russian and Ukrainian women. What is the rate of disappointment I wonder when learning one can not fly first class on home visits every 6 month to Ukraine and get a Ferrari.

[BC]

Money, money, money makes the world go around.

As far as disposable income (what's left after paying all bills) goes and what can be done with it there may be some surprises in store for sure.

A FSU man with a disposable couple hundred bucks in his pocket can probably have a good bit of fun whereas double will hardly get a small family into a western amusement park for the day.

[Misha]

A FSU man with a disposable couple hundred bucks in his pocket can probably have a good bit of fun whereas double will hardly get a small family into a western amusement park for the day.

What kind of fun are you talking about? I disagree. I would say that the couple hundred dollars will go a lot farther in Canada and the United States than in Russia. My example will be amusement parks.

Have you ever been to Gorky Park in Moscow? Was there a few years ago with my wife (then fiancee). It cost between 250 and 400 rubles per person back then to go on one ride. As you can imagine, my wife and I only went on one roller coaster ride.

For $100 or less (the cost of 3 or 4 rides at Gorky Park), I could have bought a day pass at an amusement park in Canada, the United States and Europe that would have allowed me to ride all day. By spending a couple hundred dollars at an amusement park in North America or Europe, my wife and I would be busy the entire day and would have some money left over for food. In Gorky Park, my wife and I would have been busy for maybe a couple of hours if we had stretched out our experience.

If you look at virtually any other example (restaurants, movies, etc...), prices have skyrocketed in the last decade. What used to be a lot more cheaper a decade ago is now more expensive than in North America. As such, disposable income now goes a lot farther in North America IMHO than in Russia if you are seeking out entertainment or a day out with your family.