Why do Russian women prefer Western men?

[mies]

Amen, meis Too many guys (and women, to be fair) think they can put off the "getting to know her" aspect of marriage to the 90-day K1 window and use it as some sort of silly trial.

that's a reasonable approach, but it makes things very complicated in the "trust-support" area of relationship.

[Misha]

They will earn more, but also spend more.  But that is something the women find out only after they get a grasp on the difference in economy.

And, the quality of life will be much lower all thing being equal in Russia. I have been to distant and remote rural villages in Russia and distant and remote rural villages in Canada. The rural villages in Canada had paved roads, each farmer had a pick-up truck, even a small town in Canada with a thousand people will have most of the other basic services (banks, grocery stores, etc...). All but the smallest of hamlets will have running water. That is much, much more than you can say about a comparable community in Russia.

[Misha]

yes!

men-doctors (GPs), especially in small provincial polyclinics in Russia are considered to be a "good catch" both for young brides and their mothers. So you are probably misinformed about them Misha. ;-)

Ой мне не надо ваши сказки про России. Я видел уровень жизни ваши врачи в деревне в России м очень хорошо могу сравнить как они там живут и как они живут у нас в Канаде.

[Diplomacy]

Doctors do not make much money, unless they have private practice.  They do have status.  They are also by and large, the best men I met there.  I know what you are saying Misha, you can not compare the two.

If you always lived somewhere though, it is a different view of what is a catch or not.  The villagers are looked down upon by the city folk.  Have not much of a chance at an internet connection in most areas.

How many village girls, do men marry?  I mean ones, that still live in the village.

[Misha]

Doctors do not make much money, unless they have private practice.  They do have status.  They are also by and large, the best men I met there.  I know what you are saying Misha, you can not compare the two.

What I am saying is that if you compare men and women of equal status in North America/Europe with their counterparts living in similar regions, working in similar professions and from similar educational backgrounds, Russian men will earn much less than their equivalent counterparts and their lives will be much more stable. Does not make them better or worse, it is just the reality that Russia still has much to do to catch up to the West when it comes to incomes and stability.

For this reason, Western men invariably move back to the West with their wives. Some may stay a few years in Russia or Ukraine, but sooner or later all move back. Why is that?

[mies]

Ой мне не надо ваших сказок про Россию (или "не надо мне рассказывать сказки про Россию"). Я видел уровень жизни ваших врачей в деревне в России м очень хорошо могу сравнить как они там живут и как они живут у нас в Канаде.

I am impressed by your RUssian! It's perfect!!
regarding men - I am not saying that Russian GPs live better than Canadian GPs. I only humbly noted that it's very hard to meet a bachelor doctor in rural area for whom local brides won't be "hunting" with matrimonial plans. That's it.

Speaking about russian rural provincial communities - I do not think that many girls from those communities married western men. While looking at the "downtown" or even "uptown" girls from larger cities in Russia who marry westerners - availability of paved road and the owned pickup truck aren't the only things on the list of "things required for quality life". I never wanted to own a pickup truck for example, i would rather not.

сытая жизнь и качественная жизнь - это не одно и то же :-)

[Daveman]

...availability of paved road and the owned pickup truck aren't the only things on the list of "things required for quality life". I never wanted to own a pickup truck for example, i would rather not...

Well darn, i guess I just wasted all that money on the glamor shots of the diesel dually in my latest attempt to seduce a paved road craving FSU woman... man, I just can't seem to get this right.  Maybe if I install the train horns and light rack... yeah, maybe that's the ticket.   

[Misha]

I am impressed by your RUssian! It's perfect!!

Спасибо!

Speaking about russian rural provincial communities - I do not think that many girls from those communities married western men. While looking at the "downtown" or even "uptown" girls from larger cities in Russia who marry westerners - availability of paved road and the owned pickup truck aren't the only things on the list of "things required for quality life".

Going to a village to look for a bride would be a foolish move IMHO. A young woman who stays in a village will invariably be married or will have made the choice to stay in a village. Most young women from the villages who want to leave will find some way of going to the nearest city with a university. That is where you want to look  

I never wanted to own a pickup truck for example, i would rather not.

True, the horse-drawn carriages still in use in much of rural Russia are much more romantic. However, when it is -40, I will take the pick-up over horses any day

сытая жизнь и качественная жизнь - это не одно и то же :-)

Да но это легче сказать когда есть что-нибудь съесть :evil:

[mies]

Да но это легче сказать когда есть что-нибудь съесть :evil:

Вы совершенно правы. Знаете - есть очень хорошее выражение - не могу его сейчас вспомнить - что за права голодных бедняков в царской России преимущественно боролась молодая интеллигенция которая голода не знала и занимала борьбой свое свободное время. Что-то вроде "чтобы думать о судьбах мира нужно иметь возможность не думать о хлебе насущном".
С другой стороны - моя сытость или наоборот голодность - никогда не была определяющим фактором моего щастья и удовлетворённости жизнью. Я бы даже сказала что нередко во времена относительно неденежные и некомфортные - я бываю гораздо более довольна жизнью если в ней присутствуют другие факторы - обычное человеческое общение, интересные люди, исскусство, свобода. Разница между сытостью и качеством жизни - это примерно как разница между мещанами и интеллигенцией.
Для многих жителей Америки (в Канаде не была потому о Канаде говорить не буду) основным если не единственным источником социализации является посещение шоппинг-моллов на выходных. И это не мой досужий вымысел - об этом пишут многие известные социологи и политологи - например Robert Putnam. Человеческое общение - это значительная составляющая качества жизни, и это именно то чего чаще всего не хватает русским женщинам приехавшим замуж в западную страну.

P.S. Sorry for using Russian language instead of English - I though you would enjoy reading it this way ;-)

True, the horse-drawn carriages still in use in much of rural Russia are much more romantic. However, when it is -40, I will take the pick-up over horses any day

when i said i dislike pickup trucks- i meant i like the compact size neat cars : toyota, volkswagen (tiny sport models), bmw, audi, mercedes, jaguar, or fancier "luxurious cars" - lotus, maserati -something along that lines ))

Carriages are fun - we rode one on our wedding - a gift from my husband. It was super romantic and horses were stunning. i have nothing against using horse power - myself not bad in horseriding - both English and American style, and currently attending a riding school here in USA. Unfortunately i am not rich enough to have my own barn with dutch warmbloods.. but i'll be working in that direction. 

[mies]

Well darn, i guess I just wasted all that money on the glamor shots of the diesel dually in my latest attempt to seduce a paved road craving FSU woman... man, I just can't seem to get this right.  Maybe if I install the train horns and light rack... yeah, maybe that's the ticket.   

try painting it pink with floral pattern and red hearts? 

[Misha]

Для многих жителей Америки (в Канаде не была потому о Канаде говорить не буду) основным если не единственным источником социализации является посещение шоппинг-моллов на выходных.

Yes, but is this really different in Russia? I would wager that given the opportunity, most Russians would prefer to go shopping than reading Dostoevsky

И это не мой досужий вымысел - об этом пишут многие известные социологи и политологи - например Robert Putnam. Человеческое общение - это значительная составляющая качества жизни, и это именно то чего чаще всего не хватает русским женщинам приехавшим замуж в западную страну.

Why? I will cite a good friend of mine. She has been married to a Canadian for over 12 years. She has two children, her parents live with her in Canada, she is now working as a dentist and earning hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. She does not want to go to Russia. She prefers to go to California on vacation than Moscow. She would never return to live in Russia. I do not think that things are as bleak as either you or Robert Putnam allege.

P.S. Sorry for using Russian language instead of English - I though you would enjoy reading it this way ;-)

I don't mind as I don't have a problem reading Russian.

when i said i dislike pickup trucks- i meant i like the compact size neat cars : toyota, volkswagen (tiny sport models), bmw, audi, mercedes, jaguar, or fancier "luxurious cars" - lotus, maserati -something along that lines ))

A vehicle is a tool and you have to choose what works best. If I were picking rocks in a muddy field in northern Canada, I would pick an old Chevrolet Silverado pick-up truck over a Jaguar or an Audi.

Carriages are fun - we rode one on our wedding - a gift from my husband. It was super romantic and horses were stunning. i have nothing against using horse power - myself not bad in horseriding - both English and American style, and currently attending a riding school here in USA. Unfortunately i am not rich enough to have my own barn with dutch warmbloods.. but i'll be working in that direction. 

Again, riding as a leisure activity is a more pleasant activity than having to use a horse and carriage because you have no other options. If I had to work in the fields, I would choose a tractor, a pick-up and other modern equipment over horses and carriages.

[mies]

Yes, but is this really different in Russia?

very different. Our society is very different from Western.

A vehicle is a tool and you have to choose what works best. If I were picking rocks in a muddy field in northern Canada, I would pick an old Chevrolet Silverado pick-up truck over a Jaguar or an Audi.

Again, riding as a leisure activity is a more pleasant activity than having to use a horse and carriage because you have no other options. If I had to work in the fields, I would choose a tractor, a pick-up and other modern equipment over horses and carriages.

exactly. One of the reasons why i don't want to live in small towns or a farm - because in addition to liking small talks with neighbors (not that easy to do in a community with ranchos), i also like wearing my nice italian shoes and driving my nice little car rather than changing life drastically and start picking rocks and carrying them in the truck. I understand that trucks might be convenient- when you want to buy something big in a store, and don't want to pay for store delivery. 
so vehicle isn't just a tool - it's also a component of lifestyle. my point being - not everybody wants the lifestyle associated with the truck, even if this lifestyle allows eating soft stakes and dressing comfy.

[Misha]

very different. Our society is very different from Western.

Here, we will have to agree to disagree. I agree there are differences, but they are not as great as Russians like to imagine IMHO

exactly. One of the reasons why i don't want to live in small towns or a farm - because in addition to liking small talks with neighbors (not that easy to do in a community with ranchos), i also like wearing my nice italian shoes and driving my nice little car rather than changing life drastically and start picking rocks and carrying them in the truck.

It is the life I had as a child, and not necessarily the life I want now. However, I respect those who do work in farms and ranches. Without them, we would have no choice but to eat nice Italian leather shoes

not everybody wants the lifestyle associated with the truck, even if this lifestyle allows eating soft stakes and dressing comfy.

The main problems with a pick-up truck IMHO is that they burn a lot of gas (very expensive) and they don't handle well in the winter when you are not hauling something. They are also a pain to park in the city

[Diplomacy]

Please do write more Russian

Да но это легче сказать когда есть что-нибудь съесть

In this sentence, the only word I did not know was легче.

So now, I know a new word and can read the whole sentence.

Plus, here I can ask what it means if I do not know.  

Misha, your Russian is great.  I am trying to get up there, it is a long and rewarding process.  I am up to pretty long sentences now.  I am working more on the correct pronunciation at the moment.  Trying to bring the words together, like it sounds to me.

Am I correct in this?  It sounds to me, as if there is no break between words in a lot of cases.  For example Я знаю.  To me sounds like Яз наю when spoken.  so it is sounds like one syllable is YAz, the other nayu.

I do not know if I have explained it well.    

[Misha]

Да но это легче сказать когда есть что-нибудь съесть

Yes, but it is easier to say when there is something to eat.

Misha, your Russian is great.  I am trying to get up there, it is a long and rewarding process.  I am up to pretty long sentences now.  I am working more on the correct pronunciation at the moment.  Trying to bring the words together, like it sounds to me.

Thank you! You are right, it does take a lot of effort and time to learn.

Am I correct in this?  It sounds to me, as if there is no break between words in a lot of cases.  For example Я знаю.  To me sounds like Яз наю when spoken.  so it is sounds like one syllable is YAz, the other nayu.

This is pretty much true of any language. If you were to record someone speaking in English and graph the sounds, there would be no breaks between sounds. The only reason we "hear" distinct words when speaking in English, for example, is that our brain inserts spaces between words when we listen. Otherwise, people speak without any real pauses between words. I encountered the same thing in the first weeks when learning Russian. At first, it was just a torrent of sounds and I hadn't the foggiest where one word began and another ended.

[OlgaH]

Вы совершенно правы. Знаете - есть очень хорошее выражение - не могу его сейчас вспомнить - что за права голодных бедняков в царской России преимущественно боролась молодая интеллигенция которая голода не знала и занимала борьбой свое свободное время. Что-то вроде "чтобы думать о судьбах мира нужно иметь возможность не думать о хлебе насущном".

The education was not accessible to vast masses   I think you will admit that it is very difficult to fight for your rights and know your rights when you don't know even basic grammar, therefor the representatives of intelligentsia, for example as Vissarion Belinsky,  attached great importance to education of mass. It was Russian intelligentsia (btw among them were many representatives of impoverished gentry who worked as teachers in village schools for peanuts) who contributed to the development of Zemsky schools for peasant children in Russia.    

[Diplomacy]

Thanks Misha, I am pretty sure I am heading in the right direction.  Watching Russian TV is helping a lot.  Although I really have no idea about the conversation.  I am getting better at hearing how the words are truly said.  Plus the flow of the sentence much better.

[SANDRO43]

However, I respect those who do work in farms and ranches. Without them, we would have no choice but to eat nice Italian leather shoes

Don't count on an inexhaustible supply, leather comes from cattle hides: no ranchers, no cattle, no Italian shoes .

[mies]

Here, we will have to agree to disagree. I agree there are differences, but they are not as great as Russians like to imagine IMHO

maybe you are right. but when i got a bit lost in shady street of large city in USA - the only people who offered me to show me the right way, and to walk me to "safer" area - were the homeless drunker and on a different occasion and another city - an afroamerican drugdealer/addict. They didn't even ask me for money and they were super nice - just said "it's not safe here i'll walk you to make sure you aren't disturbed". I had never met another person nowhere in USA offering this or similar kind of help. In the post-soviet area it is quite common to ask for directions and have the person lead you - even few blocks - to the street you need. It's ok in Russia to ask strangers/be asked "what time is it now?" if your watch is broken. People in Russia don't have a habit of having meaningless "small talks" - if they talk they talk about something of an importance, and they will not forget your name a minute later if they asked for it. I can go on an on. These are very subtle differences, but they are quite noticeable. You get much more human communication, and in greater volumes in RUssia than you do in the West (Europe is different from USA of course, but in terms of communication - they are different both from USA and RUssia).  

It is the life I had as a child, and not necessarily the life I want now. However, I respect those who do work in farms and ranches. Without them, we would have no choice but to eat nice Italian leather shoes

did i say i don't respect the farmers? i just said that every person chooses what life (s)he wants to have. regarding your attack on italian shoes - the agrarian sector is heavily subsidized in most countries (don't know about Canada, but definitely in USA, and most European countries), hence - the fact that they produce something is directly related to taxpayers paying their money - those taxpayers who have higher income, and not those who cannot afford more expensive food. Plus farmers are important political force so no politician wants to offend them hence their subsidizing is proliferating.

The main problems with a pick-up truck IMHO is that they burn a lot of gas (very expensive) and they don't handle well in the winter when you are not hauling something. They are also a pain to park in the city

yes, those reasons too. they are also a pain for owners of smaller cars - to park near/inbetween.

[mies]

I think you will admit

i think this isn't something i have to admit - these are facts/arguments we all agree upon ;-)

[mies]

Don't count on an inexhaustible supply, leather comes from cattle hides: no ranchers, no cattle, no Italian shoes .

i just wonder - what does Italian leather have to do with American and Canadian farmers? Does Italy import leather from USA? i'll have to check this fact - never thought of it this way 

[OlgaH]

i think this isn't something i have to admit - these are facts/arguments we all agree upon ;-)

The same I meant when I used the word "admit"  "Agree" is also synonym for "admit"   "You must admit that... " means "Согласитесь, что..." My apology in advance if I'm wrong I just rely on a dictionary 

[mies]

The same I meant when I used the word "admit"  "Agree" is also synonym for "admit"   "You must admit that... " means "Согласитесь, что..." My apology in advance if I'm wrong I just rely on a dictionary 

  вы правы - слова синонимичны.

[SANDRO43]

Does Italy import leather from USA? i'll have to check this fact - never thought of it this way 

Mies, Italian leather makers will buy hides from wherever they can find a good price/quality ratio .

Good leather depends on good hides, but much more on good tanning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanning). Tanning in Italy is mostly concentrated in Tuscany (50% of certified Italian tanneries), no wonder that Gucci is a Florentine family, with more that 100 years of experience in producing leatherware like shoes, bags, suitacses, etc. .

The Made in Italy mark is granted by the Government to industries that can prove that all manufacturing phases take place in Italy.

The Vero Cuoio (real leather) mark on soles guarantees real-leather soles. If it also includes a capital I, it means the original hide was from Ialy, too.

[mies]

Mies, Italian leather makers will buy hides from wherever they can find a good price/quality ratio .

Good leather depends on good hides, but much more on good tanning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanning). Tanning in Italy is mostly concentrated in Tuscany (50% of certified Italian tanneries), no wonder that Gucci is a Florentine family, with more that 100 years of experience in producing leatherware like shoes, bags, suitacses, etc. .

The Made in Italy mark is granted by the Government to industries that can prove that all manufacturing phases take place in Italy.

The Vero Cuoio (real leather) mark on soles guarantees real-leather soles. If it also includes a capital I, it means the original hide was from Ialy, too.

i know what are "tanning", "vero cuoio" and "made in italy".  And i know about long history of tanning in Italy.
Gucci isn't my fav brand and never was. i don't own anything of it and never felt tempted to. Maybe only a perfume but it's irrelevant for our topic.
You guys here do seem to be sensitive to females mentioning italian shoes, even when those shoes aren't paid for from your wallet. I guess following your logic - every man or woman who wears nice italian shoes (or any other leather shoes,.. or bags) have to buy a truck and go work on a ranch shoveling manure.
as for cheap raw materials/hide - i'd expect most of them to be cheaper in China rather than in USA. I may be wrong though - cannot find immediately the data from which countries Italy imports hide, or to which countries the USA exports it. If you know the source - please tell me :-)