Why do Russian women prefer Western men?

[Daveman]

i know what are "tanning", "vero cuoio" and "made in italy".  And i know about long history of tanning in Italy
Gucci isn't my fav brand and never was. i don't own anything of it and never felt tempted to. Maybe only a perfume but it's irrelevant for our topic.
You guys here do seem to be sensitive to females mentioning italian shoes, even when those shoes aren't paid for from your wallet. I guess following your logic - every man or woman who wears nice italian shoes (or any other leather shoes,.. or bags) have to buy a truck and go work on a ranch shoveling manure.

Well, hech yeah!  All women wearing Italian shoes should be forced to shovel manure wearing the shoes! And then roll around in it for a while to make sure the other nice clothes and accessories get a thorough baptism by kakashka!

yeah, I drive a pretty massive truck (as well as a smaller truck, a sports car, and a PT cruiser, and two motorcycles) however, I am not willing to raise, lower, or alter my lifestyle for anyone, nor should anyone else be willing to do so.  I think part of what constitutes "fitting together" would be to have very similar lifestyle dreams. 

But.. I do love the Italian shoe shoveling scenario.. I want that on video please!   

[mies]

Well, hech yeah!  All women wearing Italian shoes should be forced to shovel manure wearing the shoes! And then roll around in it for a while to make sure the other nice clothes and accessories get a thorough baptism by kakashka!

yeah, I drive a pretty massive truck (as well as a smaller truck, a sports car, and a PT cruiser, and two motorcycles) however, I am not willing to raise, lower, or alter my lifestyle for anyone, nor should anyone else be willing to do so.  I think part of what constitutes "fitting together" would be to have very similar lifestyle dreams. 

But.. I do love the Italian shoe shoveling scenario.. I want that on video please!   

ok, i'll post here the photo of myself in bikini, in large suede gardening gloves {made in China} - shoveling manure into the soil of my backyard. My neighbors seem to like these peaceful gardening hours. I even suspect they sell tickets for the "show" to their friends. Hope it'll pacify you all too
(now have to ask permission from my husband, will keep you updated on the news)

[Mir]

Some food for thought for the FSU women seeking emigration:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

[OlgaH]

Some food for thought for the FSU women seeking emigration:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

Ah, I guess a good bargain regarding the Italian shoes will be in Atlantic America

[SANDRO43]

i know what are "tanning", "vero cuoio" and "made in italy".  And i know about long history of tanning in Italy.

Well, sorry if I assumed otherwise from your original question .

Gucci isn't my fav brand and never was. i don't own anything of it and never felt tempted to. Maybe only a perfume but it's irrelevant for our topic.

I cited Gucci simply because it's an internationally well-known brand, not to solicit your opinion on their products.

You guys here do seem to be sensitive to females mentioning italian shoes, even when those shoes aren't paid for from your wallet. I guess following your logic - every man or woman who wears nice italian shoes (or any other leather shoes,.. or bags) have to buy a truck and go work on a ranch shoveling manure.

I fail to see the logical connection to my post.

as for cheap raw materials/hide - i'd expect most of them to be cheaper in China rather than in USA.

Possibly, but I mentioned price AND quality.

I may be wrong though - cannot find immediately the data from which countries Italy imports hide, or to which countries the USA exports it. If you know the source - please tell me

Not worth my trouble, you might tell me you know that already, too .

[Diplomacy]

I thought many FSUW feel rich if the can get nice shoes every season.  I bought Chanel and even picked the colors, from photographs. I am on a first name basis with Gina at Nordstrom.

The real funny thing is, there is a great FSUW that works there also.  She about died, when she saw me holding my own in the cosmetics front.  Gina, quickly told her I am a gem.  With the amount of money she had made off of me, it was the least she can do.

I had a picture on my cell of my fiance.  She said I was on the money with all the colors.  Then I got an Oy, when I asked her a question in Russian.  Gina, laughed and said I had a fiance from Ukraine.  Her reply was, this woman better know your value.

I have a deal in place, not one peep from me on clothes and makeup.  I will drive her, until she is comfortable enough to go there on her own.  As long as she stays within the budget we agreed on.  In return, not one peep out of her about the cost of my hunting dog, outdoor gear, or cool gadget that is not needed.

Now, my budget is less than it was by half. It is a fair amount.  We will work out a new budget if finances change.  She should be able to get a great outfit, Chanel, and shoes each season.  End of story.

Well not really, but until she gets here and real life dictates the reality of the deal.

Here's to hoping.

The way I see it, she will look and feel great.  I am looking like a real man, bringing home food that I foraged myself.  Throw in learning how to hunt mushrooms, and she can be kissed by the sun, until her heart is content on the boat.  It sounds good in theory, we will see.

[mies]

you might tell me you know that already, too .

no, i honestly told you I have no idea where italian shoemakers buy the hide from and whether it is local or not. I am not an Italian and never lived there, yet you have Italian flag on your profile so you may know better.
I know that China is big on leather production, but they also make final products from this leather too. In terms of price and quality - I do not know much about requirements for hide quality - don't work in procurement at shoes factory, nor on a cattle farm. I would assume that living conditions and feeding regime for the livestock play big role, but this is an assumption - i never searched for information nor read/heard about it.
On some shoes that i have - there is a sign "I", on some not. Of course not all of my shoes are "made in Italy", but quite many, and they have comparably better quality - because i never have blisters even when i wear them for the first time, unlike the shoes made in Brazil or China - those need "adjustment time". And when buying pumps or high heels i always buy the shoes with leather soles and "all leather". Of course you aren't soliciting my opinion - so i'm just bragging here about shoes - favorite women's discussion topic.

I fail to see the logical connection to my post.

practice finding logical connections?

[mies]

I thought many FSUW feel rich if the can get nice shoes every season.

this is true. Shoes are expensive there - both in actual and relative terms.

I have a deal in place, ...

Sounds like a great deal 

p.s. how expensive is it to have a hunting dog in USA?

[Diplomacy]

Well, the one I have now I could sell for $10,000.  I have about $5,000 in training costs, vet bills, and what she was sold for.  From now on, I will do the training with their help. 

With my traveling, I needed to hire a top trainer.  Who was good to the animals, and loved the breed. 

Of course, it will take dire circumstances to sell her now.  We are bonded, and I could not even think about selling her.  She is my loyal companion. 

[mies]

Well, the one I have now I could sell for $10,000.  I have about $5,000 in training costs, vet bills, and what she was sold for.  From now on, I will do the training with their help. 

With my traveling, I needed to hire a top trainer.  Who was good to the animals, and loved the breed. 

Of course, it will take dire circumstances to sell her now.  We are bonded, and I could not even think about selling her.  She is my loyal companion. 

this dog cost you like a kid    (kidding)
i hope that your dog will like your woman and vice versa

[Diplomacy]

Mies it is funny you should say that.

When I got her as a puppy, the wife said that exact same thing.  That the dogs had cost them as much as private school tuition for their two children.

The dog and the boat are luxury I allowed myself.  I am sure I will be in for a few battles.  She loves labradors.  I just am not certain she has seen a pure bred field trail Labrador.  I will post a picture, they look like a cross between a greyhound and a lab.  Much slimmer and can run for hours.

I trained my first one as a teenager.  So I know how it is done, just better for this girl to be trained by the professional.  She spits fire and can be as sweet as honey.  Hmm, reminds me of someone I know.   

[mies]

Mies it is funny you should say that.

When I got her as a puppy, the wife said that exact same thing. 

:-) it wasn't said as a critique - for me all pets are members of family, not equal to people but members. So when pets need a vet or treatment - they will get it of same quality as people do. I even have a habit of feeding my pets before i eat myself - so that they don't drop saliva on the floor while i'm eating.

[Vinnvinny]

I trained my first one as a teenager.

You mean she’s untidy, moody, stays out late, occasionally tells you she hates you and has spots? 

[Diplomacy]

Mies:

I did not take it as a critique.  I am pretty immune to the blunt nature of FSUW.  I do admit though, sometimes I do get caught off guard.

Vinny:

As a wise Russian philosopher once said "they should suffer"

[Mishenka]

Interesting topic. the OP assumes  RW prefer Western men. In fact, they do not.  RW prefer any man who is willing to spend money on them. The moment any man stops spending and giving, they quickly loose interest and move on to the next.

[chivo]

Interesting topic. the OP assumes  RW prefer Western men. In fact, they do not.

This is true. They much prefer RM
 

RW prefer any man who is willing to spend money on them. The moment any man stops spending and giving, they quickly loose interest and move on to the next.

This is BS though. You obviously don't have a clue about RW unless this was said in jest. Sure they want a man who can provide like any normal woman, but if you think they are just looking for a sugardaddy, then you've met very few, and certainly not enough to make a educated judgement.

That is of course, you were just joking.

chivo

[Mir]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1924963/Russian-women-make-gold-digging-an-art-form.html

[chivo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1924963/Russian-women-make-gold-digging-an-art-form.html

Another sensationalized report about a select group of women that makes up less than 1% of the local female population of Moscow. Just like you can find in any major metropolitan area in the world.

They better hurry because...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/600/42/375268.htm

And this trickles down to any psuedo-rich man in Russia.

chivo

[Misha]

Another sensationalized report about a select group of women that makes up less than 1% of the local female population of Moscow.

True, but what they say reminds me of what I have heard even from women not hunting for an oligarch. This from the article:

The reason for the sharp-elbowed approach, according to one former oligarch hunter, is that decent men in Russia are generally thin on the ground, especially those who are both solvent and sober.

"Take 100 Russian men," explained Oksana Grussova, who spent 15 years hunting rich men, and was married to a wealthy construction magnate.

"Ten of them will be gay, 30 alcoholics, 10 drug addicts, 20 impotent, leaving a paltry 30 men.

"Now take 100 Russian women, 90 of whom will be beautiful - the race simply isn't fair."

[Mishenka]

This is true. They much prefer RM
 
This is BS though. You obviously don't have a clue about RW unless this was said in jest. Sure they want a man who can provide like any normal woman, but if you think they are just looking for a sugardaddy, then you've met very few, and certainly not enough to make a educated judgement.

That is of course, you were just joking.

chivo

Chivo, I'm joking a little yes, but in half the cases, for the RW who live in America for a few years I'm not. I'm making a life experience observations from the many RW I have met and been in relationships with over the last 12 years.  Let my personal experience speak for itself. With SOME RW, not all,  relationships and money are directly related to what they are willing to give to get what they want in the relationship. I will not elaborate on that any further. I will just say that about half of them had a shopping list of qualifications for their man. Money = security was #1, meaning over 6 figure income. Russian families where I am living are very well off and flourish in San Diego. The women expect their man to be sucessful, dress to kill and drive a nice BMW and let her drive the Mercedes. Oh, and live in a 1.5 million dollar home. Keeping up with the Jones' is a must. Status is way to important to them. Staus is not as important to people who already have it.  Aparently spending my allowance I set for myself of $250 per week on dating was not enough to keep their interest. While they could see I was sucessful and had money, I was also careful with it. I would test them to see what their heart was after and they failed. The love of money came first, before love of her man.

I'm glad to know you had a different experience. It wasn't until I met Galina sitting by my side, that I found someone real and different from the rest. She is independant when it comes to money. She is happy and content when her basic needs in life are met. These are food shelter, and the best clothes, shoes and perfumes made she doesn't drive and wants to do everything together.  Still, like most RW, she  can be very demanding. She blames this on Grandmother of course.

As far as not having a clue about RW or any women for that matter,  I'm the first to admit I will never figure them out! It's the mystery of the RW that keeps life interesting and a challenge. Without this, life is boring.

Mishenka
 

[Mishenka]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1924963/Russian-women-make-gold-digging-an-art-form.html

This old news from May 2008 is obsolete now  Last year Forbes produced the new list of millionaires in Russia and it has fallen in huge numbers. Last year the world had 1,125 billionaires. Today there are 793. How $1.4 trillion vanished. The gold diggers are now working at McDonalds.

Last March, Russia had 87 billionaires, more than any other nation except the U.S. At least 40 had money in the real estate and construction markets. Now that the bubble has burst in those sectors as well as commodities and banking, Russia has 55 fewer billionaires. The following are 10 of the most compelling drop-offs from the past year.

Dmitry Pumpyansky
2008 net worth: $6 billion, Lost:  $5.1 billion
Majority owner of TMK, a producer of pipes for the oil and gas industry. Weakening pipe demand and heavy debt loads have combined to push TMK shares down 84% over the past year. From Russia's resource-rich Ural mountain region, started out as a trader.

Kirill Pisarev
2008 net worth: $6.1 billion-Lost:  $5.5 billion
One of last year's richest newcomers, Pisarev and his partner Yuri Zhukov jumped onto the list after taking their Russian real estate firm, PIK, public in 2007. The company racked up debt to buy land for development, a strategy that helped them grow quickly but proved costly as the nation's red-hot real estate sector turned ice cold. Both partners fell from the ranks as PIK's stock sank 98% since last March.

Elena Baturina
2008 Net Worth: $4.2 billion-Lost:  $3.3 billion

In 1991 started plastic-products company Inteko, which produced furniture and crockery but has since expanded into construction and construction materials. Real estate projects stalling. Gazprom and Sberbank shares in the portfolio of the Moscow mayor's powerful wife have lost 75% and 89% respectively since last year.


Vyacheslav Kantor
2008 Net Worth: $2.6 billion-Lost:  $1.9 billion
Passionate collector of paintings by Russian artists of Jewish origin. Former chair of Russian Jewish Congress, quit in January to focus on the global issues. Shares in his fertilizer business, Akron, have dropped 84% since last year.

Alexander Lebedev
2008 net worth: $3.1 billion-Lost:  $2.5 billion
Former Russian intelligence officer and politician reportedly hit by margins calls from lenders in December. The value of his National Reserve Bank dropped over the past year as Russian banks have faltered and shares in Russian airline Aeroflot are down 83% in the same period. He's giving media a shot; bought London's Evening Standard in January.

Ruben Vardanian
2008 Net Worth: $1.3 billion- Lost:  $1.1 billion
His investment bank, Troika Dialog, second biggest in Russia, was on the edge of collapse when stock markets crashed last fall. Reportedly state-owned Sberbank helped bail him out. (Vardanian denies it.) Troika sold 33% of its shares to South Africa's Standard Bank in March.


Oleg Boyko
2008 Net Worth: $1.5 billion- Lost:  $1 billion
Is being forced to close his gambling company, Ritzio's, slot-machines parlors in Moscow and other big cities across Russia, according to a new legislation on the books this coming July. Has gaming operations in other parts of Europe and Latin America, though consumer spending down.

Sergei Polonsky
2008 Net Worth: $1.2 billion- Lost:  $900 million
Flashy property developer last October promised to eat his own tie if real estate prices would not increase 25% in a year. His Mirax Group still hopes to complete its 1,660-feet Federation skyscraper in the new business district called Moscow City.

Sergei Petrov
2008 Net Worth: $1.7 billion-Lost:  $1 billion
Former air force pilot instructor during the Soviet Union era, built an empire of car dealerships from scratch. Now with cars sales in Russia down 30% in January, and imports down another 75%, his business is hurting.

Igor Yakovlev
2008 Net Worth: $1.8 billion-Lost:  $1.6 billion
Founder of Eldorado, Eastern Europe's largest home appliance and electronic retailer, lost the business to Czech billionaire Petr Kellner, from whom he had received a $300 million loan. His other chain, which sold goods for babies and children, became insolvent last year.

[Diplomacy]

Mishenka:

It is an interesting experience you have had.  I will say that there is ways to have pride, and they do not have to do with material things.  I am glad that you find a woman that is capable of being happy with what you have to offer.

I explained status as everything else as something you sacrifice in many cases, at the expense of something else.  For example, if you are working 80 hours a week.  Is the larger home and nicer car, worth the time taken away from your family? 

The do understand the cost of money, and when they start to understand the way America works, versus the way it is in the FSU.  You start to be able to explain things a lot easier.

I would bring into the conversation, the woman's pride and status.  Would the woman be happy, just being a status symbol herself?  Would she find pride in that?  Absolutely, there are women there that such a marriage is the holy grail to them.

There are women here, that are similar in thinking also.

[ECOCKS]

I concur with the view that FSUW do not necessarily prefer WM as much as they just prefer a stable man.  Two things affect our perception of this though.

First, we are not meeting an average group of FSUW.  There are millions of gals (literally) living in the smaller towns, villages and farms of the FSU who we simply do not run into.  Neither does the media. They stay near their homes, marry locally and life runs its course without ever worrying about Schengens, K-1's or beaches in Turkey.  Speed dating is when Igor races home after a shift at the mill, throws on a semi-fresh pair of jeans and then runs over to Sveta's house on the way to meet their friends at the local hangout.  Sveta is happy because Igor is with her and has status from his job at the mill. These are normal people.

Second, of the group we do meet, these are the ones who are conciously trying to "swim upstream" in their society. Most have actively sought out western men since they have somehow (often mistakenly) identified that the west, and its people, are more stable.  Alcoholism is generally lower, they live longer, there are some hygiene issues that crop up, we have cars and single-family homes, all of which seem like higher status, until they acclimate to our culture and discover they are only solidly middle class (for the most part). Thus the lack of understanding why they cannot all live the way they saw the women in Hollywood - shopping everyday, boob jobs, a convertible sports car, swimming pool at the house, etc.  If you don't prepare the gal that this perception is Hollywood and simply not real for most people, you are in for serious trouble, financially, emotionally and physically.

I look at my brothers-in-law, all FSUM and see average guys. Normal jobs, occasional problems, some energy, occasional laziness, communication challenges (the wives talk), in short, just normal guys.  Will all of their marriages hold up? Maybe not.  However the divorce rate remains disturbingly the same whether they marry FSUM or WM.

Something to ponder over a coffee cup or beers.

[Mishenka]

In my case, with Galina having a masters in Economics, working as an auditor and accountant general, she is very calculating. She is quick to do figures and get to the bottom line. When she is shopping for the smallest things, she haggles back and forth with the seller to save 20 cents on a veggie at the market. Before this crisis, she thought nothing of spending $400 on a pair of leather boots or a leather jacket for winter and $150 on nice shoes. She loves to shop for perfumes and Victoria's Secret goodies that she knows drives me crazy when she is wearing them or not

Now with this financial crisis she will not spend money on anything other than food. she will not ask me for anything. This shows me her heart is true. The security she was looking for first was love from the heart, then financial security. Religion was also a requirement for her. To be married in the church this time, to a man who believes with the same faith. At first this was tough. I had to do a quick study on ROC in Russia and compare to the ROC in USA which is very different. Would she like it here? The state brought in so many "man made" rules, holidays and requirements in Russian Orthodox churches that don't exist in America, for good reasons. Now, how do you blend in the old Russian State ROC rules with the new freedom in USA ROC? This is one area we have some difficulties with. With the language barrier it's hard to explain to her, so I stay silent.

Galina calculates the crisis situation and worries like the rest of us. Her flat in Russia has fallen in value by half of the price it was in July 08 when I told her to sell, now it is worth less than USD $50,000. Money there is worth little. She is mourning the loss of value and how it has changed our plans for the future. The 6 Florida properties I manage are worth half of what was paid new 4 years ago and the tenants are not paying on time. The 4 West Coast properties have gone up in value but hard to keep rented at 3200 per month.  The way she calculates them, if sold today they break even, sad when you think about it, that nearly 7 million in realestate on paper is worthless when sold and loans paid off today. The taxes alone due each year on each one of the Coastal properties would easily pay for a flat in her city back when she bought hers.

Has anyone else changed their standard of living this last year? I feel we are still in somewhat of a protective bubble here on the beaches of California. Property has gone down in value inland, but on the coast it has increased by 3-10 %. Basically I'm earning half of what I did 2 years ago, but for how much longer? I dint know. It could get worse before it gets better.

Mishenka

[Diplomacy]

Mishenka:

Yes, I am living differently.  The crazy part of all of this, I took money out the market back in July.  To pay for the trips and also used it for getting them both things that I felt were needs more than wants.

That money had it been in the market, would be half.    Is it going to get worse?  Not looking good, and I want to see with my own eyes now.

It really is a double whammy for me.  The economy and the fact that I am providing for 2 other people.  Her income may never be the same as what I bring home.  We have talked at length about what I have.  What gets spent every month, and what is left over.

We talked about what to do with what is left over each month, and she agrees a good percentage needs to be saved.  When she gets a job, then we will revisit what is saved and spent on other things.

I always had at least 6 months of income saved, and now it is not there.  So, we will be careful and smart with the money.  Not to the point, we do not use some to enjoy life though.

My income was $15,000 short of what I thought it was going to be.  So this year, I planned for it to be short that $15,000.  If I happen to earn it, then it is going to be split up and majority saved.  I will not change my tax status, when I get married.  This way we have a good check in February to bolster the saving, and start a college fund for my son also.

We discussed all this, but it is only understood so much.  She is good about telling me, that she did not understand something.  Even then, it will be different when they are here.