Adultery & Divorce - Do Russian Women ever get deported?

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

Frankly I wouldn't spend the money on a atty to go look through her USCIS file anyway. Whatever happens to her happens to her. We have a mutual friend that will probably keep me informed of whatever's going on with her.

If I was curious I could probably hire a detective to find her based on her SSN, but I don't think I'd even bother with that. Of course, if she still lives with my neighbor, then I'll know she suceeded.

It is far better to not know anything about her or what has been said about you in her file. Somethings are best left unknown.

I have heard a few things from the grapevine in regard to my ex. This is from the RW detective that I used in my divorce, Elena Garrett of www.Russian-Detective.com

Speaking of Maxx and Elvira . I have another client who is currently in the process of trying to divorce his Russian wife with the least possible financial damage, and his story is pretty much the same as Maxx's story... though his story has a little twist to it, that I think will get him off the hook after all (and hopefully will get his wife thrown out of the country pretty soon).

And guess what, if I understood correctly, Elvira and my client's future ex happened to be good buddies and hang out with the same group of Russian ladies once they came over to the US.

I never thought I would hear of Elvira again , but here I am, going back to the roots (Maxx and Elvira's case was the first case of this kind I ever handled, so it is kind of dear to my heart)

So now I know that the woman I helped get into the country is probably coaching helping other Russian women to scam and hurt their husbands. Something I rather not know.

Maxx

 

 

 

[RacerX]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

 I spoke with the local fraud officer and congressional representative (my father decided to write his congressman).

Nice bit of info C5, and kudos to your father for thinking to do this - it might well make a huge difference in your case.

They typed up a sworn statement entitled "Voluntary withdraw of Sponsorship", meaning that I've officially withdraw support from her yet to be approved I-485. They said that means she has no legal status now (she has no sponsor for her I-485).

But you have to remember that with the AOS she is the one applying, not you (unlike a K-1 visa).  She will remain in status until her case is adjusted, and has been pointed out before, she could substitute someone else as her sponsor given enough time and money.

I echo everything Maxx has said about the disgraceful behavior of the VSC!!  btw, Maxx, your last several posts were exemplary -well done!

Good luck C5 -and please keep us informed of the continuing saga.

[Maxx]

Important:

See C5's post in the middle of the previous page of his CIS interview

 

 

[c5driver]

Maxx,

The USCIS investigator seemed real interested in my RW Russian friends and about her agency. She asked me who ran the agency, if I knew where they were located, etc. She also wanted the phone number of her friends (who also cheat on their husbands).

She seemed to want to investigate if my RW planned marriage fraud while she was still in Russia. But her friend are from the Ukraine - they meet in English class her, not in Russia.

[c5driver]

But you have to remember that with the AOS she is the one applying, not you (unlike a K-1 visa). She will remain in status until her case is adjusted, and has been pointed out before, she could substitute someone else as her sponsor given enough time and money.

RacerX,

No, I think she's out of status - that's what the USCIS told me. They'll interview her and decide what to do with her (if they think she committed fraud, which seems to be the case, I expect them to try to deport her - they mentioned taking her to court).

My immigration atty told me the following: "THe only way she can get a K1 is if she immediately packs up and goes home." I think he meant the only way she can get a green card is to go back to Russia. Because I think K1 Visa holders can't adjust status with anyone but their original sponsors. If she wants a new sponsor (her BF) then she can go back to Russia and get a K1 from him (but she's expected to leave immediately - if she overstays, then she might not get another K1).

Of course, we expect her to do the DV I-360.

[Maxx]

You should get something that looks like this in a week or so.



My withdrawl of support of her petition was personally signed by Curtis Aljets the Director of the USCIS and ICE of Minnesota, North and South Dakota. It is my understanding my ex's file was "red flaged" by him for special attention and the results of the ICE investigation of this being possible fraud was added to her perminent file. However I got notice in late February to come to the local service center with information that would support her petition. This was a screwup as when I got there on March 24th 2004 I was told I did not have to come as she had taken care of her petition (I-360 route no doubt) on her end. She was living in another State. From what I gathered dispite everything in her file and those on my side (like a District Director of 3 States) she got her Green Card on the 24th of March 2004. There seems to be no stopping the VSC.  

Maxx   

[c5driver]

Maxx,

It sounds like you were successful in stopping the AOS petition that you filed. She was successful, however, in the AOS self-sponsered DV I-360 petition that she filed. Mr Aljects had no control or her petition - only the VSC did.

I think it's quite possible the same (successfuly I-360) outcome will happen to my RW. I should move on with my life and not stress out about it. Instead, I need to remember that she's stressing out about possible deportation, and her BF is stressing out about the legal bills. I need to try to enjoy my life and try to get closure. Whatever happens to her immigration status happens - we shouldn't worry about what we can't control.

We really need to write our congressmen/Senators and try to get the situation with the VSC changed. I have no problem with protecting abused women via the I-360, but that doesn't mean that fraud should be tolerated. Clearly the process is stacked heavily in favor of the accusor. We need to get our congressmen to ask the USCIS to adjudicate the I-360 at the local level by interviewing both parties.

c5driver

 

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

 I should move on with my life and not stress out about it. Instead, I need to remember that she's stressing out about possible deportation, and her BF is stressing out about the legal bills. I need to try to enjoy my life and try to get closure. Whatever happens to her immigration status happens - we shouldn't worry about what we can't control.

 

One of the reasons I was so vocal about this whole mess was I wanted the guys in these situations not to do what I done. That is bang their heads against the wall and hope for a good outcome. I fought my battle until the end of May 2004. The reality was the war was over sometime in 2003. Don't make the mistake I did and think we can change things on a national scale. However your posting your story can be of help to the next guy who will be in your position. That's the good that comes out of this.

Maxx

[c5driver]

One of the reasons I was so vocal about this whole mess was I wanted the guys in these situations not to do what I done. That is bang their heads against the wall and hope for a good outcome. I fought my battle until the end of May 2004. The reality was the war was over sometime in 2003. Don't make the mistake I did and think we can change things on a national scale. However your posting your story can be of help to the next guy who will be in your position. That's the good that comes out of this.

Maxx

Maxx,

I'm not saying we can change this on a national scale. But I don't think writing our congressmen a few letters would require much effort (maybe we could draft a letter about the VSC on the forum, them members could print/mail to their congressmen).

I know I must accept the my RW will stay here. It's always easier to have low expectations, then be pleasantly surprised if they are exceeded (like when she leaves my neighborhood). Part of me will still always care for her (despite her being a snake), and part of me will resent her being here (because she is a snake). But I need to focus on my happiness, and not even think about her.

c5driver

[Maxx]

Again thanks for posting your story. Your interview at the service center was exactly as I expected it to be without the probing to see if you are abusive. They did however ask you about this and as you wrote to get it into the record before it is out of their hands. All this rings true from what I know and experienced with ICE.

I noticed their big interest in a conspiracy ring. It was that angle that got my case the attention that it did. It appeared from my evidence that the agency was paid off by my RW wife with money I wired her mother ("emergency"). If fact that group of RW she hangs with here in the US has at least one member from that agency. It was this woman who help my ex with her false charges. I was told this by another Russian actually two.

Did you get the impression that the CIS knows little about the MOB business?

Maxx

[c5driver]

Again thanks for posting your story. Your interview at the service center was exactly as I expected it to be without the probing to see if you are abusive. They did however ask you about this and as you wrote to get it into the record before it is out of their hands. All this rings true from what I know and experienced with ICE.

I noticed their big interest in a conspiracy ring. It was that angle that got my case the attention that it did. It appeared from my evidence that the agency was paid off by my RW wife with money I wired her mother ("emergency"). If fact that group of RW she hangs with here in the US has at least one member from that agency. It was this woman who help my ex with her false charges. I was told this by another Russian actually two.

Did you get the impression that the CIS knows little about the MOB business?

Maxx

Hi Maxx,

Your welcome. Thanks for all your posts.

The USCIS wasn't at all confrontational - they just wanted to talk about DV because they expected that she'd file I-360, and they said they wanted to protect me (I think they know how biased the process is once she files I-360).

I got the impression that the USCIS knows a fair amount about the MOB business. The agent looked up the website and thought it seemed ligit. They seemed interested in conspiracies between the agency and the girls and asked if I paid the agency money when I got engaged (which I didn't). They also wanted to know if my RW knew other women in Russia that came to America with her (which I didn't know of).

I'm hoping that the differences between our RW cases will mean that my RW will not be successful in using the DV route. She's never gone to a shelter (I don't think living with her BF counts) like your RW did, and I think it's too late to do that 4 months after we separated. My RW likes the finer things in life (she got her BF to buy her $250 jeans and refuses to ride the bus which is kind of shocking considering she rode buses all her life in Russia), so it would be hard to picture her leaving her BF for a shelter.  Also no DV charges were ever filed (you had them filed against you in family court, correct?), and it's a little late for her to do that now as we have no contact. Your RW didn't commit adultery during the marriage, correct? That's another difference.

Do you ever visit Southern California? Maybe we could meet sometime if you're out here. The weather's probably a lot nicer than Minn in the winter.

c5driver

[RacerX]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

Maxx,

It sounds like you were successful in stopping the AOS petition that you filed. She was successful, however, in the AOS self-sponsored DV I-360 petition that she filed.

Just to keep everyone on the same page, Maxx's girl came in on a K-3, yours on a K-1.  The I-485 she filed is entitled: "Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status. She is the "petitioner" in this matter, not you.

The posted letter probably referred to his I-130, but with immigration folks you never know.

But as you suspect, if she files an I-360 it will all be moot.

...me, I would "adjust" to the fact she may well be around for awhile and plan for a strategy NOT based on deportation.

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

I got the impression that the USCIS knows a fair amount about the MOB business. The agent looked up the website and thought it seemed ligit. They seemed interested in conspiracies between the agency and the girls and asked if I paid the agency money when I got engaged (which I didn't). They also wanted to know if my RW knew other women in Russia that came to America with her (which I didn't know of).

My Story

My ICE investigator a older woman in her late 50's early 60's knew almost nothing about the MOB business. I had to tell her that they provide translation services through credit card purchases. The agency I dealt with was under the Angelika Network. In October of 2002 I was asked by the agency owner to set up a credit card process business here in America. My then Russian wife an economist (accountant) would run the American operations. The object was for him to become independant of the Angelika Network. Then he was going to solicit business (agencies) away from Angelika and bring them under "our" agency. I put the quotes around "our" because strangely he never discussed what my cut would be. It was a deal I suppose cut between him and my now ex-wife. He gave me his proprietary contract between his agency and Angelika/WDN to have my lawyer study. This contract has all the percentage cuts between the America partner Angelika and the FSU partner, the responsibilities of the agent, routing and account numbers to their banks and so on. It is in both Russian and English. I still have this contract.   

Anyway I decided to pass on this "opportunity" because I feared that one of his new FSU agency partners would start scamming men and I would be held accountable. When I told my then wife this on my last return business she went and told the agency owner it was a 'no go'. Shortly afterward my then wife asked me to help her fix up her house (she lived in a duplex) for her mother before she left. I said of course. I started sending money, $2300. About that time my wife got her visa but did not want to come until the house was finished. I seen it as a money pit and it would be months before it was finished (It was early March) so I told her to come and put a stop to sending money. She then told me that she talked to the agency's lawyer (?) about emmigration. It was a day later I called her and she was in an absolute panic to leave Russia. She told me she was worried about the coming war in Iraq. I thought this was nonsense but really wanted her to come so I quickly ordered the tickets.

After she got here she completely changed. Cold, rude, unfriendly and wouldn't sleep with me. This was from the first day. I figured quickly I married a GCG. 

I at first did not know what to do. I decided to placate her and give her anything she wanted while I prepared with lawyers and such my exit from the marriage. One of the things I now regret doing is doing her Adjustment of Status. I did not know that this was significant even if pulled my support shortly later. One does NOT do an AOS on a woman they are planning to divorce.

One quick story about the AOS with her. We are down at the service center waiting in a long line (about 3 hours) when she strikes up a conversation with a young (early 20's) RW. They are talking in Russian for quite sometime. After the AOS which took 5 hours we are driving back. I ask her "Say what were you and that RW talking about" She says "She say me about California. She say me it is warm all year. That is where I am going to live" I am thinking "Yeah, without me...."

So after the AOS she gets some calls from the interpreter of the agency. Shortly there after she tells me her mother is in a bind. Apparently she gave up on the renovation of the house and decided to sell it. It sold immediately and Momma had to be out of the house by 5/1/04 or her and my wife's furniture would be on the street. Momma had found a Khrushchev style apartment but needed another 100,000 rubles (about $1500) to swing the deal. I was urged almost in a panic to send the money. I said I would. I then sent it in bite chunks of $500, $300, $350, $350 spread out over a month (I was buying time). Each time I sent the money my wife was with at the Western Union Office. She always thought in the first three transactions I would send the entire amount. When I told her "No I don't have that much yet" She got frightened and looked scared. She said "What must I say?" Finally I sent the last of the money and she looked very relieved.

One things I did upon advice from my attorney was hire detectives to check out this real estate deal. They did their document checks. Talked casually to the neighbors unnoticed. It was found out that the house was never put on the market. In fact her mother only owned 1 part of a 6 part share. There were 6 owners of the house. That her mother had lived there since July 10th 1965 and was not about to move. In fact she did not have enough money (even with mine) to buy her own house/apartment.

All of this told me that it was a scam from one end of my marriage to the other. The agency owner actually arranged the wedding at ZAGS for me. I actually wondered at the time why he was so accommodating <Shaking my head> and helpful. Of course he got paid off. My wife wasn't in a near panic at the WU office when I didn't send the whole amount for no reason. She probably was worried what would happen when her mother told the agency "lawyer" when he stopped by to get his money why it was short.....

 

Maxx

 

[Kevin]

I though I would tell my old story since it on the same topic.

My first k-1 visa didn't go as well as I like. Event hough we became good friends I didn't have the right chemistry to go though with it.

Needless to say. Galina liked America and didn't have much to return to back in Russia so she decided that she wanted to stay. 

The first step she took was to apply for asylum since this is the only option for k-1 visa holders.  The process is quite simply and takes 3-5 years if you know how to work the system and believe me there are plenty of Russian "helpers" who know how.

It has now been over 5 years and Galina is still here in America. She has married another men that she meet that also didn't leave when he was suppose too and they now have a little American girl.

Currently both are allowed to live and work in America while they wait for their multiple court days and because they now have an "American family" they will file new documents on behalf of there American daughter inviting them to live in America once they do finally get deported if ever.

In Orlando I would say there are 100's of such couples.

In Florida  there are 1000's of Mexicans doing the same thing.

Kevin Hayes

[Maxx]

Thanks Kevin. As my immigration attorney told me "If they enter the county legally there is always a way they can stay". "A determined women will find a way" and so on. He said that they can marry a USC and he can sponser her. There is always the appeal of a hardship case of them returning and what is best for the child if they have one and so on. These extenuating circumstances give the immigration lawyers opportunities to make money.

Maxx 

[RacerX]

Hey C5 ~ One word of warning: the I-360 can also be filed by a widow  

[anono]

i just hope the guy who is beating his chest in his TR about his wonderful one week engagement is reading all this.

[Frank]

I know of some one week engagements that have made it just fine.  There really is no way of knowing the hearts and minds of  these women.  You can hedge your bet by visiting them several times, but how do you really know what they are going to do?  I'm not sure it is possible.  My best advice is to search your heart to determine if an Eastern Europe wife is what you really want, take time to get to know her WELL, cover your butt legally and then pray really hard.  

[c5driver]

I know of some one week engagements that have made it just fine. 

Frank,

Can you tell us more about theses successful marriages? How long have they been married (I don't consider it successful unless it's 3 years or more)? How many successes (and how many failures) do you know of? What are the characteristics (age difference, etc) of the successful vs unsuccessful marriages? Thanks

c5driver

[Frank]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

I know of some one week engagements that have made it just fine. 

Frank,

Can you tell us more about theses successful marriages? How long have they been married (I don't consider it successful unless it's 3 years or more)? How many successes (and how many failures) do you know of? What are the characteristics (age difference, etc) of the successful vs unsuccessful marriages? Thanks

c5driver

Hi c5driver,

Yes, I can tell you more.  There are five that I know of who have been married 5+ years.  They were all whirlwind relationships.  In fact, it was one of these couples that helped my wife and I prepare our paperwork.  The sixth couple had major problems.  The wife turned out to be a hooker, took her husband for all she could get and then dumped her husband as soon as she got her greencard.  Age wise, these marriages have age spans ranging roughly ten years.  Granted, the marriages are not perfect, but they are working.  At some point, I would not be surprised if one of them ends up in divorce.  The husband is writing to other women on the internet.

I'm not saying whirlwind relationships are the way to go.  They are not.  I am just saying anything is possible.  I've been married seven months now and my relationship took several years to develop before marriage.  I can honestly say it is pretty damn hard at times.  I take each day at a time.  Everything is improving slowly. 

There are several things I see which make for successful marriages;  common religious or moral values,  common goals in life,  like education level,  ages not too far apart (my wife is only 5 years younger than myself), willingness to work together as a team and lots of patience. The unsuccessful marriages usually are lacking in one or more of these areas.  That's why I say it is hard to know how a relationship will go even if a long or short courtship.  You have to trust what that woman is telling you before you marry her.  If she is lying and you trust her, you are screwed.

Frank

 

[Maxx]

[user=488]c5driver[/user] wrote:

I'm hoping that the differences between our RW cases will mean that my RW will not be successful in using the DV route. She's never gone to a shelter (I don't think living with her BF counts) like your RW did, and I think it's too late to do that 4 months after we separated.

In my trial it seemed to be a big deal that I filed the divorce. Th prosecution council claimed repeatedly that my ex knew nothing about the divorce. In fact I told her and tried to have her process served but she fled that instead. Then at the shelter I tried again to have the sheriff's deputy process serve her but the shelter refused him. All this was kept Hush Hush from the prosecuter. Anyway it would seem to me you filing the divorce first, having her process served and her living with another man these past 4 months will make you somewhat safe from having local DV charges made against you. A DV claim agaist you sent to the Vermont Service Center is an entirely a different matter. Even your local CIS interviewer seems to see that as a good possibility. Only thing you need to worry about is her setting you up on a false claim to get the official evidence of abuse for her I-360. That is why I say do not be near her without a female friend or female relative of yours being present. Don't call her on the phone either. Your call on her ID can be used against you.  

 My RW likes the finer things in life (she got her BF to buy her $250 jeans and refuses to ride the bus which is kind of shocking considering she rode buses all her life in Russia), so it would be hard to picture her leaving her BF for a shelter.

Mine braved a shelter even though she felt like a prison to her. A girlfriend of her's told me at the time she looked like frightened kitten. My ex also like finer things too (many RW do) and was very picky about her surroundings. Sleeping 12 to a room, having a curfew and not allowed to drink her beer was agony for her I was told. Yet she stuck it out and I am sure was encouraged to do so.

 Also no DV charges were ever filed

Not yet anyways. As long as you take good measures to stay away and not contact her you maybe safe with that, 

(you had them filed against you in family court, correct?)

Yes it was a civil trial for a protective order. However her charges of rape if ruled to be true could have resulted into it becoming a criminal matter with a criminal trial. However then the rules of evidence would apply. This would be very, very risky for my ex as she had many things she did not want to answer for. A civil trial is like a 'hit and run ambush'. Getting a guilty verdict is very easy. In such a trial the accused has to prove his innocence. If she makes 99 outragious claims but has one claim slightly better than 50% believable she wins the conviction.

, and it's a little late for her to do that now as we have no contact.

Don't let her trick you into contact not even with the phone.

Your RW didn't commit adultery during the marriage, correct? That's another difference.

Mine had a Hispanic man calling the house during my work hours looking for her. I spoke to him and said. "If you are looking for Elvira she no longer lives here." He chuckled and said "I see. OK" and hung up and never called again. But anything provable to a court? No.  

Do you ever visit Southern California? Maybe we could meet sometime if you're out here. The weather's probably a lot nicer than Minn in the winter.

Yes I would like meet you sometime. I plan someday to do a nationwide drive and meet some of the people I have had allot in common with and been in contact with

c5driver

Please keep us updated on this and put an ending to this informative thread with your divorce final and exactly what happens with your wife's future here in the US.

Thanks,

Maxx

 

[wsbill]

Gee, this is a interesting topic... But have any of you guys ever thought of going to say like NYC and scope out the ladies there. (course, they may not want to live anywhere else)...

As I have a brother who met a charming Italian lady (who had a H1B Visa to work here in the states) and they got married and she's a outstanding wife and a hottie with brains to boot.

Why not save some moola and go check the place out.  Ya never know...  Ya know it's kinda strange how some guy from the country meets a charming girl from the city.  Well, duh.  It's how we were raised, it's called respect the women folk.

Opposites really do attact.  So, throw this logic into your bag of knowledge and apply it to good use.  Think about what kind of a woman do you really want... Do you want the knockout, which every guy will be attracted to ?

So long as she gets all dolled up for you, that's ok!
But, when she's standing out from the rest of society, well that's when the alarm bells should be going off.

Everybody is different, just use your gut instinct and listen to it.

[catzenmouse]

Gee, this is a interesting topic... But have any of you guys ever thought of going to say like NYC and scope out the ladies there. (course, they may not want to live anywhere else)...

As I have a brother who met a charming Italian lady (who had a H1B Visa to work here in the states) and they got married and she's a outstanding wife and a hottie with brains to boot.

Why not save some moola and go check the place out. Ya never know... Ya know it's kinda strange how some guy from the country meets a charming girl from the city. Well, duh. It's how we were raised, it's called respect the women folk.

Opposites really do attact. So, throw this logic into your bag of knowledge and apply it to good use. Think about what kind of a woman do you really want... Do you want the knockout, which every guy will be attracted to ?

So long as she gets all dolled up for you, that's ok!
But, when she's standing out from the rest of society, well that's when the alarm bells should be going off.

Everybody is different, just use your gut instinct and listen to it.

 As this is the RWD forum I (speaking for myself only of course) don't see why I would want to go to NYC to meet an Italian (or other Americanized) woman.

 I've had various multicultural relationships (Brazilian, Puerto Rican, Canadian, American, and Croatian(was REAL close to keeping this one)) but they, nice as they are, just don't measure up to what I've found with my Siberian beauty. One of the things I like best is that she does not want to let go of her upbringing, values, and culture.

Ken

[c5driver]

Maxx,

I'm looking forward to meeting you on your nationwide drive. Keep in touch.

I've not had any contact with my RW or her boyfriend (which is good, of course). I'll probably never know what happens with my RW's immigration case, and I'll try my best not to care. If she did get deported (which I doubt will happen) then I'd probably find out from mutual friends. She'd probably just stay here illegally if she didn't get her green card.

I expect my RW's attorney to claim DV and self-petition for a green card. I read a guide for attorney's on how to file this DV paperwork. It seems like she could simply sign an affidavit that I called her names and threatened to deport her (which I didn't, but she wouldn't hesitate to lie). According to some sources her signed affidavit would get her the green card. I'm trying my best to accept this, though my immigration attorney says she'd need real proof to get a green card. Perhaps the fact that she moved in with her boyfriend instead of going to a sheltor will work against her. Who knows for sure.

c5driver

[Maxx]

It seems the game was up for getting justice with the INS with the adultery of a K-visa spouse when in family courts the charge of adultery was no longer considered as grounds. So goes society, so goes the INS. 

My simpathy goes out to you C5. I will send you PM with my phone number. We should talk as I got lots to tell you on the subject of recovery and moving on. Believe me I understand a thing or two on that subject.

maxx