TR: Barnaul/Tver, Russia

[OlgaH]

I personally am against it, and would never agree to be involved with VM guy.  But those girls are adults, they know that OP didn't come for someone exclusively. You don't like it, than don't go on a date with him.  What's the big deal?

Absolutely agree with you

I really don't care about WMVM or WOWO. I don't care if guys will schedule their dates or just form their dates in ranks by weight and height. It is just their and their dates own business and preference.

Some women know and agree on such dating tactic.

and I also think that av8or1 will find his own soulmate. 
 

[av8or1]

Let me jump really quick into this thread, and  I'm out to make a dinner for hubby like a good traditional wife:D
Gee, people, sounds like some folks here feel they are self-proclaimed prosecutors. Leave the OP alone, after reading a bit of this thread he seems like a very sane, decent and sound guy. So he went on a trip to visit many, do you think the girls listed with the Russian marriage agencies are just sitting at home, sewing their wedding dress and waiting for that special Prince Charming? Yeah, right. OP didn't promise any girl that he is going to visit her exclusively. If girls are fine with that, what's the problem. I personally am against it, and would never agree to be involved with VM guy.  But those girls are adults, they know that OP didn't come for someone exclusively. You don't like it, than don't go on a date with him.  What's the big deal?

Well said Step, well said.  Live and let live, right?  Just because you don't agree with someone is no reason to attack their character, dig up old posts and change their meaning and turn what was intended to be a helpful TR into a cesspool of tripe that has little value to those who may come to RWD in the future seeking advice from those of us who have DIRECT EXPERIENCE with something.

You are correct to say that I didn't promise anything to these women and you are even MORE correct to say that they aren't exactly waiting at home for a Western man too.  Did I tell all of you stountly-defensive-of-WOVO folk the story about the woman I met in Russia once?  Well let me educate you a bit.  This woman in her letters preceeding my visit to her city insisted that I come to visit ONLY her.  When pressed to give an answer, I replied honestly that I would be seeing other women as well.  I respectfully added that if it was not a situation that she was comfortable with, that I would understand if she wanted to discontinue our communication and not meet when I arrived.  Much to my surprise she agreed to continue, but with EVERY LETTER she kept asking me for "faithfulness"!  Hah!  I haven't even MET you and you want me to be exclusive with you?  Seems creepy to me!  Anyway, we meet and are walking back from dinner.  It's my third night in town.  We are stopped and confronted by an agitated man.  The three of them (the man, her and the interpreter) are all speaking so quickly and angrily that I have no clue as to what they're saying.  I can only catch pieces and parts of it.  Well long story short version is that this guy is the BOYFRIEND of the girl who WANTED ME TO BE EXCLUSIVE WITH HER!  Hah!  Can you believe it?!?!?!  The hypocrisy!  I was stunned.  Through the interpreter I told the guy that I was sorry and that I didn't know she HAD A BOYFRIEND!  He just stared at me for a second, then rips this girl by the arm, practically dragging her away, both of them screaming the whole time as they disappeared into the night.  My interpreter and I simply exchanged looks of amazement for a couple of seconds, after which she apologized profusely.  I told her to stop, that it wasn't her doing.  We ended the night in a cafe, as she was so stressed that I felt compelled to be the calming factor for her.  She told me the next day how much she appreciated that, so I felt good that I was at least able to help her.

So anyway, despite such a negative experience and my convictions to the contrary, I don't tell men to avoid WOVO.  Folk are free to do as it suits them to do.  For me WOVO doesn't work (I tried it on two other occasions, both of which ended in disappointment).  I've asked for an understanding and support of this notion in the past, including this thread, and all of these requests seem to have fallen on deaf ears of some.  So...whatever.

Just don't see these women through Rose Colored Glasses, I'd say.  They're human, just like us.  And if a woman doesn't want to meet with me simply because I take the WMVM approach, I'm ok with that.  It's her decision and I respect that decision.  Why some folk here on RWD get so bent out of shape about the issue escapes my comprehension...but I digress again...

av8or, keep posting, nevermind those negative remarks. Why do you give a damn about them, there are much more people who support you here. Some RW can be so nagging, omg.
Good luck in Ukraine, there are some really gorgeous girls there
... seek, and ye shall find"

Well I don't care what Olga, her hubby, GOB and the like have to say really, Step.  Their comments have just grown old to my senses, that's all.  The primary reason that I have chosen to post in the "sans Responses" section however is simpler than that: I would prefer to have the information and material that I have to present based on my experiences be readily available and not cluttered (and even lost) in all of the bickering of the bad apples, that's all.  So I'll post my next TR there.  As Dan has already alluded to, I suspect that the bad apples will start up a thread somewhere else regarding my TR, but whatever, I doubt I'll read it, as it won't be worth the time I'd spend sitting in front of the computer screen...

And relax Kuna and others, I read that other "sans Responses" TR, mine won't be like that.  I don't do "sex tours."

Best,

Jerry

[OlgaH]

This sounds like the hubby who is talking, so I'll go ahead and respond.......

I am not disputing that.  What I am disputing is that just because she's a RW doesn't mean that she knows SQUAT about my relationship with A DIFFERENT RW.  And for her to go on and on and on like she does know what she is talking about...well, THAT is what I have a problem with.  But whatever...

No ego at work here, I am not accusing anyone of anything, so get your facts straight before you utter them.  And finally, get a clue, go back and re-read the posts, it's NOT me who is intolerant of other views, it's folk like Olga and GOB and the sort.  But I digress.

And with that, I'll close my responses to you as well.  You are entitled to your opinion.

Best,

Jerry

av8or1,

Getting the facts straight:

First that you did you accused me that I made personal attacks on you.

Uhhhh...no, my comments were regarding your personal attacks on me and your intolerance to other viewpoints, but I digress. 

Please quote my personal attack on you.  

Second you should look what you have written about me just because I have my own opinion and dare post it    

The more your "crying" about my unfairness towards you the more I understand about your fiancee's decision  

[OlgaH]

Well I don't care what Olga, her hubby, GOB and the like have to say really
Jerry

and you have sent your bitter PM because you don't care  and instead of giving your answer on my comments regarding your "dating luck and dating mystic signs"    your accuse me in ignorance, intolerance and being some kind of folks 

Look at yourself, Jerry.

[av8or1]

and you have sent your bitter PM because you don't care  and instead of giving your answer on my comments regarding your "dating luck and dating mystic signs"    your accuse me in ignorance, intolerance and being some kind of folks 

I tried not to respond to this, but didn't succeed.  Sorry.

1) I don't care, despite what you may think/are trying to purport
2) I sent you a PM in order to try to forge a better relationship with you and your husband, to mend the fences if you will.  Now if you and or your husband interpreted that PM as "bitter", well what can I do, that's your opinion
3) I didn't address your comments because they're not worth addressing; they are taken out of context and given an arbitrary meaning that has no value other than to support your point of view, which is intolerant of those that differ from yours.  So if you really have nothing else to do with your life, and it appears that way, keep on digging...
4) If the hubby actually thinks that he hasn't attacked my character then he doesn't read his own posts; I won't bother to quote them, there are too many
5) Quit talking about me "crying", I'm doing nothing of the sort.  I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, but then that'd mean that I care about what you have to say and it wouldn't be worth Crazy Bear having to haul me off to jail......  hahaha!

Look at yourself, Jerry.

Yeah, I'm lookin' pretty dang good!

Ok and with that, I'm done.  I don't wanna play the games of you and your husband any longer.  I suspect that you'll keep it up, but whatever.  The more you write the more ridiculous you look because you support untenable positions and an unwillingness to bridge the gap by getting along with me and those who are of a different point of view.  Instead y'all just wanna keep on arguing, pushing your viewpoints, as though they meant anything, which they don't, and as though you are correct.  LET IT GO.  You are not correct, you are only expressing an opinion.  I'd like to get along with y'all, but y'all won't have it, so whatever.  And since y'all were the ones who came up with the following tripe in a previous post, you should appreciate this:

Game Over.

(as though that had any meaning!  Hahahahahahahaha!  My stomach hurts......)

Best,

Jerry

[OlgaH]

I sent you a PM in order to try to forge a better relationship with you and your husband, to mend the fences if you will. 
Jerry

av8or1,

and for better relationship you have started with "LISTEN to this, if that's possible for you... So pull your head out... You DEFINITELY have too much time on your hands..." 

you don't want to comment on my remarks on your dairy, because of your own ego that doesn't let you, it is you weakness Jerry. Think well if you still want to find your soulmate from FSU  or be a man and give your answer on my comments and please give an example of my personal attack on you. Of course if you can, otherwise it is just your bla-bla 

As any other members of this board I have no more no less time on my hands to post my comments. 

You have mentioned my hubby so often. Is it love? Should I be jealous? 

 

[TwoBitBandit]

Jerry,

I, for one, am looking forward to your next trip report.  You're right, it will be better in the "Trip Reports sans Responses" forum.

Good luck and don't let the bastards wear you down.

[OlgaH]

5) Quit talking about me "crying", I'm doing nothing of the sort.  I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, but then that'd mean that I care about what you have to say and it wouldn't be worth Crazy Bear having to haul me off to jail......  hahaha!

Jerry

Yes, Jerry you speak as a real classy man. Bravo!! Don't worry there is a kind of cheerleaders who will happily join you being on your level and most likely such way of speaking will be approved in a "Men's Code of Conduct". 

Tatiana, please keep a good job with your agency. I also think your ladies should know what to expect from an American man if one day they will dare  make a critical remark on some of his action.  

[GoodOlBoy]

5) Quit talking about me "crying", I'm doing nothing of the sort.  I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, but then that'd mean that I care about what you have to say and it wouldn't be worth Crazy Bear having to haul me off to jail......  hahaha!

Yes, Jerry you speak as a real classy man. Bravo!! Don't worry there is a kind of cheerleaders who will happily join you being on your level and most likely such way of speaking will be approved in a "Men's Code of Conduct". 

I don't know about the rest of the forum members, BUT....This is a very troubling statement, "stick my foot up your ass" (man addressing lady) for me to hear.

When a "Man" (supposed gentleman) on this forum, who has been "touted" and "vouched" for by a string of the "Anointed Ones", resorts to addressing a lady in such a way......well 



GOB

[Admin]

Folks,

I think Jerry is demonstrating some of the frustration that he feels from reading, and responding to, some of the speculation that has occurred in the course of his TR.

This is not new at RWD, and in fact, one of our more memorable early incidents involved similar issues with PhotoGuy. Owing to that experience, and some others that ensued, we created the TR sans Responses subforum - and from time to time, we urge our members to be more tolerant and less critical of those who are generous of their time and contribute their experiences through a Trip Report.

Fact is - many more people travel to the FSU who are members here - but they do not post a TR because they are deterred by witnessing previous bad experiences of others.

Most of what needs to be reiterated may be found in the posted Guidelines for Civil Discourse, found here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7223.0.

A few things that responding members need to keep in mind are:

* The act of contributing a TR is one of generosity, and the 'default' should be to express appreciation for our members willing to take the time to organize their thoughts and provide the TR.
* ALWAYS give the TR the benefit of the doubt. If they write something that strikes a chord IN YOU, ask yourself WHY - and only AFTER you have resolved it internally, then pose your question to the OP, if needed.
* If you ask the TR OP a question and are supplied an answer - take that as their honest response. For my part, I learned a long time ago that when I tried to 'read between the lines', more often than not, I got it wrong. Far better to accept things at face value - and pose sincere and honest questions until any 'gaps' are filled.
* It has always struck me as illogical for some to be condemning or judgmental in response to a TR. Maybe it is my training in Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (reference -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_emotive_behavior_therapy), which basically holds that you cannot change the past, and it is folly to become emotionally invested in events of the past (a bit ideal, admittedly, but very useful nonetheless).

In summary - RWD needs to be a venue in which our members feel comfortable in contributing their experiences. There are useful learnings in ALL of them - even the most controversial - and we've certainly seen a few of those.

- Dan

[GoodOlBoy]

Folks,

I think Jerry is demonstrating some of the frustration that he feels from reading, and responding to, some of the speculation that has occurred in the course of his TR.

Correct me if I am wrong Dan, but if memory serves me right this "Man" (AV8or1) use to be a commercial airline pilot?

If so....I am sure glad AV8or1 was not at the stick of the aircraft (US Airways Flight 1549) that just landed in the Hudson River in New York.

Due to his inability to handle a little criticism on RWD without becoming emotionally "unhinged" and "lashing" out at OlgaH, speaks volumes to me, about all facets of his personal/professional life.


GOB

[Admin]

Correct me if I am wrong Dan, but if memory serves me right this "Man" (AV8or1) use to be a commercial airline pilot?

If so....I am sure glad AV8or1 was not at the stick of the aircraft (US Airways Flight 1549) that just landed in the Hudson River in New York.

Due to his inability to handle a little criticism on RWD without becoming emotionally "unhinged" and "lashing" out at OlgaH, speaks volumes to me, about all facets of his personal/professional life.


GOB

What Jerry does, or does not do, in real life is immaterial, in this instance. The hypothetical is even less relevant.

What *is* relevant is that there has, undoubtedly, been a fair amount of speculation in this TR. It does not surprise me in the slightest that our members are reticent about posting a TR given all the furor that often erupts.

- Dan

[GoodOlBoy]

The hypothetical is even less relevant.

No disrespect intended Dan, but I can assure you that for the 154 (not counting Capt. Sullenberger) people who walked/swam away from that crash landing in the Hudson, the pilot's "emotional" stability would definitely be relevent.


GOB

[Admin]

No disrespect intended Dan, but I can assure you that for the 154 (not counting Capt. Sullenberger) people who walked/swam away from that crash landing in the Hudson, the pilot's "emotional" stability would definitely be relevent.


GOB

Maybe so - but that has nothing whatsoever to do with our members here, nor the theme of RWD.

GOB, you make my point for me. It is exactly this sort of unnecessary perpetuation of tangents that is a disservice to the OP.

- Dan

[LEGAL]

Dan the perpetuation is kept up by this type of inappropriate behavior not being dealt with.  Lets look at Jerry's propensity of violence towards  Russian women with his own words "I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, ."What do you do when a group of people do nothing and allow this type of threat?  Contact local law enforcement make a report and file it. Most will say why others will understand.

Dan I beleive you have stated in the past that "This board strives to achieve civil discourse. We do not believe it is acceptable to make snide or derogatory comments toward anyone."

This shows the true content of ones character and those who condone, advocate or stand silent.
 

[daveyj]

Dan the perpetuation is kept up by this type of inappropriate behavior not being dealt with.  Lets look at Jerry's propensity of violence towards  Russian women with his own words "I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, ."What do you do when a group of people do nothing and allow this type of threat?  Contact local law enforcement make a report and file it. Most will say why others will understand.

This shows the true content of ones character and those who condone, advocate or stand silent. 

I've read the original post, and the last few.  Like most people, I don't have the time nor inclination to wade through 30 pages of a discussion board flame war.

However,  this sentence...
"I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$"
...is only one single sentence out of the hundreds that the Jerry has written.

As such, I think it is somewhat unfair to paint him with the "violence against women" brush.

I could just as easily take your sentence...
"Contact local law enforcement make a report and file it."
...and use it to suggest that your handle must surely be an ironic reference to a complete lack of understanding of the legal system.  However, I choose to make no such suggestion because it was just one sentence, casually written on a discussion board, and I choose not to take cheap shots.

[Admin]

Dan the perpetuation is kept up by this type of inappropriate behavior not being dealt with.  Lets look at Jerry's propensity of violence towards  Russian women with his own words "I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, ."What do you do when a group of people do nothing and allow this type of threat?  Contact local law enforcement make a report and file it. Most will say why others will understand.

Dan I beleive you have stated in the past that "This board strives to achieve civil discourse. We do not believe it is acceptable to make snide or derogatory comments toward anyone."

This shows the true content of ones character and those who condone, advocate or stand silent.
 

Soundbiting out of context serves no other purpose than to exaggerate any issue.

For reference, here is the actual quotation:

Quit talking about me "crying", I'm doing nothing of the sort.  I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your a$$, but then that'd mean that I care about what you have to say and it wouldn't be worth Crazy Bear having to haul me off to jail......  hahaha!

It was clear to me that Jerry was merely expressing his frustration using colorful language. Are you seriously suggesting your interpretation was that he was intending physical harm?

- Dan

[tim 360]

Hey Jerry, Thanks again for taking the time to post your trip report which has turned in to a 33 page mess.  The flak you are getting would make any sane person not want to post a TR on RWD.  I think the sans response TR will help alleviate alot of the BS and whining,  Good luck, tim360

[GoodOlBoy]

.....I choose not to take cheap shots.

DaveyJ, you are an OK guy in my book.  

You took all of the "taunting" and BS about your sexuality I dished out (and some others) and laughed it off.  

IMO, your thread was attacked personally and much more harshly than AV8or1's thread and you handled it like a man.

But when a "Man", jokingly or not, states to a lady on RWD: "I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your ass".

Well frankly I don't know you DaveyJ, but I don't see you saying something like this to OlgaH or any other lady.


GOB

[Admin]

DaveyJ, you are an OK guy in my book.  

You took all of the "taunting" and BS about your sexuality I dished out (and some others) and laughed it off.  

IMO, your thread was attacked personally much more harshly than AV8or1's thread and you handled it like a man.

But when a "Man", jokingly or not, states to a lady on RWD: "I'd prefer to see how far I can stick my foot up your ass".

Well frankly I don't know you DaveyJ, but I don't see you saying something like this to OlgaH or any other lady.


GOB

Please refer to my post above about "soundbiting" and exaggeration.

You guys are REALLY stretching.

- Dan

[Admin]

Hey y'all - do me a favor and lighten up for a short time.

This one has sprung the sudden potential for lock-down - and I'd rather not do that right now.

- Dan

[groovlstk]

This shows the true content of ones character and those who condone, advocate or stand silent.

Easy to call into question the characters of others as a way of getting members to speak out in support of your position  

Over the years there have been quite a few posts that I'd consider racist or sexist, plenty of personal attacks, etc. For instance, I didn't see anyone defending Sculpto when another member started calling him "Miguel," I'd guess because the vast majority of posters disagreed with Sculpto and didn't want to appear to condone his wacky political stance. Or maybe some folks simply don't want to get dragged into another pointless argument between two strangers who can't let a dead subject lie in peace?

FWIW, I perceived Jerry's comment in regards to feet and asses as 100% metaphorical, if in poor taste. I don't blame him for being defensive when someone is cherrypicking quotes from posts he made years ago to defend their attacks on his character. Hell, if anyone wanted they could go through my first few TRs and find many, many contradictions in my thinking, perceptions, plans, and methods. It's not that I said one thing and did another, or was inconsistent in my posts - it's called evolving and growing. I have no problem w/people disagreeing w/Jerry's methods and ideas, but pulling a few quotes from his past with little or no context and using it to discredit him is insulting.

[SMS60]

Here is what I learned.

Remember the old saying " if you give someone enough rope they will hang themselves " or something close to it.

Jerry, if that is your real picture and real story with the angencies and others I would take it down and or hide it..... now.

I would say your photo and statements are hanging beside many angencies computers or on their black lists or bulliten boards. News travels fast on the internet.

How many people on dating sites or involved with angencies have read this? You would be suprised!!

Im trying to help you for the future. You are doing yourself harm. But this does not matter if your not real or serious???

Good luck because you really need it.

[OlgaH]

Due to his inability to handle a little criticism on RWD without becoming emotionally "unhinged" and "lashing" out at OlgaH, speaks volumes to me, about all facets of his personal/professional life.


GOB

Good morning! I just woke up  

GoodOlBoy,

I don't know nothing about him being a pilot. But through his posting he clearly showed that he just simply cannot take the criticism from a  woman and not being able to hold his position he debase himself by making scandalous personal attacks  

daveyj
If somebody did not read the thread, he simply doesn't understand what is going on and he will make his statements of his ignorance about what is taking place now  

[OlgaH]

It was clear to me that Jerry was merely expressing his frustration using colorful language.
- Dan

Dan,

please, you are trying to perfume what started to stink. 

Can you imagine what will happen if Jerry finally find his soulmate and having a disagreement with her he will start to use his colorful language? After everything what he wrote being frustrated because he simply could not give his constructive and adequate answer on my comments regarding his trip reports, but only his bitter sarcasm and personal insults, I, not only as a person but a woman as well, have more clear picture about him.

If you look through the thread you will never find any of my personal attacks on him or insults.

I have noticed when some men on this board can not speak in support of their position through arguments they start to use such words a "a$$, idiot, silly" and so on, they simply stoop to the level of insults. Dan, trying to justify Jerry's personal attack on me, you give a green light for some members to express their "frustration" (or more correct their inability to debate in polite manner) through the colorful language.