How old is too young?

[kryten41]

It is easy as we age to think that women in their early 20's are too young to know what they want, but a 21 or 22 year old could easily have a 4 year university degree.  A 25 year old could have a Master's, or have graduated from law school or medical school.  This age group isn't necessarily that immature.  If you look at the UN stats someone posted in another thread, it appears that it is common for FSU women to get married in their early 20's.  In the U.S.A. it isn't uncommon for people to get married straight out of university (typically 21 to 23 years old). 

It seems to me it is absolutely appropriate for a 25 year old man to be looking in this age group.  People in their 20's are the perfect age for raising children (lot's of energy).  If I had the resources when I was in my 20's that are available now (the internet being key), I wouldn't have hesitated to look to the East. 

Just my 2 cents.

[MR01]

I find it interesting that men can be claimed to be too young by men who are on or contemplating their 2nd or 3rd marriage.

If we were to bring the higher rate of failure of 2nd & 3rd marriages into the mix then perhaps it's the older divorced men who shouldn't be going to the FSU ?

[ScottinCrimea]

It is easy as we age to think that women in their early 20's are too young to know what they want, but a 21 or 22 year old could easily have a 4 year university degree.  A 25 year old could have a Master's, or have graduated from law school or medical school.  This age group isn't necessarily that immature.  If you look at the UN stats someone posted in another thread, it appears that it is common for FSU women to get married in their early 20's.  In the U.S.A. it isn't uncommon for people to get married straight out of university (typically 21 to 23 years old). 

It seems to me it is absolutely appropriate for a 25 year old man to be looking in this age group.  People in their 20's are the perfect age for raising children (lot's of energy).  If I had the resources when I was in my 20's that are available now (the internet being key), I wouldn't have hesitated to look to the East. 

Just my 2 cents.

Education does not equal maturity.  I'm a perfect example. 

[Diplomacy]

Top-

It is hard to say for anyone.  I do not know anyone that was 25 and got married to a FSUW.  I do not know one, forget about enough to be able to even have an educated guess.

I am not over 45, but my friend that did this is 47.  He married a 21 year old woman, that is just amazing.  So, did times change.  Yes, he would never go on a tour like he did 10 years ago.

I look at a great man with a 3yo boy and 11 yo daughter.  He wears me out, just trying to keep up.  It is about the man and the woman at the end of it all.  Nobody can do anything, but try to help or annoy. 

As far as I know of, you are the only 25yo that I know even trying this.  I am very interested in how it goes for you. 

I met the 20,30,40,50 yo women in my travels.  So much has happened there during those years.  The women are quite different to me, and it is not to do with just age.  Some of it has to do with being in that environment, can wear many down over the years.  Others, find strength in what the have overcome and achieved.

Each person is simply part biology and IMO a larger part the choices they have made in life. 

I can only imagine, that some of the men look back at what they were like.  I look now at say my fraternity reunion.  Some of the brothers live like they still live in the Frat house.  It has been 15 years now for some of them.

Others are amazing family men and business men. 

You appear to have your head on straight, know what you are looking for, and have the means to get it.  You find a great woman, then build a relationship.  Feel she is as committed to you as you are to her, then you are almost there.  Growing together is hard over distance, but it can be done. 

We have a luxury, we will have more years to grow together.  Not lived as many years, and as set in our ways.  You got 9 years more than I got.  You are in no rush, and there really is no reason for us to be.

All I can tell you, is do not get caught up in the message.  Learn what you can, and keep becoming a better man.  Learn Russian, and get one of the best women they go to offer.  Be one of the best men, we got to offer. 

Choose Wisely!

[2tallbill]

Granted it is your opinion. I just don't think it is anymore reasonable for me to proclaim that men should not marry women not within a 5 year range of them than it is to tell men 25-29 not to seek a long term relationship. It doesn't deal with any real factors. Just a nominal range.  I likely would be hounded for making that statement on this message board because that is the demographic. Imagine making your statement (or stating your opinion) on a message board of single men age 25-29. Then telling those men that on top of that they have the inability to listen and accept the advice. That seems no more valid than me telling this message board that men should not seek women outside of that 5 year range. And of course any men that do are just not capable of listening because older men lust for young women.

First I had no idea how old you were when I made the post and I don't know anything
about you. It does make sense "now" that you are interested in women the ages
that you said earlier. My comments are general in nature but not specific to you
personally. I stand by them and will say that generally most men are not ready to
marry before they are 30 and most women until they are 25. 

Second obviously you aren't going to advocate dating girls 10 years younger than yourself because they would be 15 and second you would have zero experience about dating women who are 10 years younger to rely on. If you made a comment that all
men should be dating only women who are within 5 years of their age is just like my
18 year old giving me tips on parking a car (he still does it).

In some ways RW are mature early in other ways they are not. It's quite possible that
a 22 year old RW has never lived by herself, drove, paid rent, made a payment, etc.
It's also very likely that her parents have a direct veto whether or not they even get married either to you or someone else.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with you dating or courting a woman and having
serious plans about having a future family. I think that you making serious plans
about your future are commendable. My specific advice to you (if you wanted it)
would be to do your research, take your time, learn a little Russian and good luck.

Udachi

Bill

[Daveman]

Education does not equal maturity.  I'm a perfect example. 

Double Ditto... 


Listen you young whipper snappers.. I don't think anyone said "Don't do it".. I think most if not all of us said "take your time.. there's no rush"  and gave some reasons why there can be some risks...

Funny, it's also the exact same advice we give everyone regardless of age.. "Take your time, let the relationship grow, get to know her.. blah blah blah" and give reasons for the risks.

yeah, absolutely normal for a 25 yr old guy to be interested in 20-25 year old ladies adn date the daylights out of them.    there's just no need to rush toward marriage (which I don't think he is).

I remember the words of a great Italian Philosopher "Marriage is a container for a relationship"... one of the best lines ever.  Grow the relationship naturally until it fits snugly into the container. 

[topofthekey]

yeah, absolutely normal for a 25 yr old guy to be interested in 20-25 year old ladies adn date the daylights out of them.    there's just no need to rush toward marriage (which I don't think he is).

I'll eventually do it if I feel I have a great reason, but I'm definiately not in any hurry. While you sure do read a lot of trip reports with men getting engaged on a 2nd or even first trip.. that is just not me.

[Caddydaddy]

Turbo,
I don't say a big age gap must inevitable lead to a failure, not at all.
A friend of mine is a good example. Also married for almost 20 years, no kids, finally breakup.
Today he is 55, married since 5 years to a 30 year old UW and has 2 kids with her. Age gap 25 years!
I know them pretty well and his wife says she is very happy with him, they are planing a 3rd kid 

I think if the basics are good between a man and a women it works out. I try to define them as far as it is possible to me:

- simply said: head, heart and soul should say "yes", ALL three!
- respect
- admiration
- trust
- physical attraction
- similar structure of personality
- that unexplainable "chemical reaction" called love
  no idea what the cause is, but Dopamin, Serotonin, Neurotrophins, Oxytozin will raise to have it scientifically proven 

To avoid possible risks, listen very accurate to yourself. No self-deception, no reality distortion created by false hopes.
If there are any discrepancies and if they seem to be just minor developing kinda mixed feelings, not good. They have potential to grow into a big problem later, they don't go away, I learned that the hard way.

So far my thoughts..., maybe others have any other ideas?
Caddydaddy

[Turboguy]

Thanks Caddy.  I was just a little surprised by your statement that with the small age gap you had in your first marriage that you felt the difference in the stage of life you were at.   I think age gaps have been discussed enough that I would hate to turn this into another one. 

I can't disagree with the comment that most are not ready to marry until 30 or whatever.  Still people do marry before that age and I would bet most first marriages are people younger than 30. 

Caddy, I think your advice to listen to listen to yourself with no deception was very good advice.   I think with many mistakes we make in our lives we have some little voice inside telling us it is a mistake and don't listen.  I remember standing behind the church at my first wedding thinking I should run for my life.  I should have listened to my inner voice.

[topofthekey]

Still people do marry before that age and I would bet most first marriages are people younger than 30. 

No need to bet or guess as it is a fact. Men from the USA at 27 on average and women from ukraine at 22 on average.

When you combine everyone worldwide developing countries really drive down the age of first marriages (closer to 20 than 30 for sure). For example in the Philippines the average age for ladies is just 19. In Bangladesh it is 18.1. Certainly there are reasons for those young ages. I found it interesting that men in Japan on average actually do wait til thirty. Which would support some logic here, but then when you factor in the cost of real estate it makes a lot more sense.

[Misha]

No need to bet or guess as it is a fact. Men from the USA at 27 on average

True. 27.7 is the median age of first marriage in the United States in 2007, which means that one-half of all men got married at the age of 27.7 or younger. This would imply that an even larger number of men would have married at the age of 29.9 or younger.

[Kuna]

Interesting opinions...  but we still have a denier in our midst.

Is anyone game to take on a challenge?

Please find a thread based on the successful pursuit of a 20 yr old FSUW from the past few years...  I know it's happened in the past... one of my best friends was a late-30's guy who married a 19yr old UW (Yes, they're still together 15 yrs later)

I don't even care if the guy isn't a "mid 20's young bull" - can you find one of these mythical pursuits from the past few years.

Please... OH PLEASE...  do not hold out Sculpto as a success story... 

[Diplomacy]

Kuna:

I think Top's personal plan, is more of a 3-5 year plan. If he follows through with it, he has a chance of success.  I hope he does find the right woman, and she is his exact same age.  The rest of it is a moot point.

We have nobody younger, that is anywhere near the stage that has made themselves known.  I would not even use that as anything more than one example.

Rest of the World

Even within the men and women here, we are seeing so many issues that are obstacles.  They appear in varying degrees, and a lot of it is explained very well by the women.  I personally value their insight, listen to what they are saying.  Not just what you want to hear. 

[GoodOlBoy]

They appear in varying degrees, and a lot of it is explained very well by the women.  I personally value their insight, listen to what they are saying.  Not just what you want to hear. 

I agree Diplomacy.

I find RWD is a much more enlightened forum with the FSU women/wives voicing their opinions. 


GOB

[Faux Pas]

Interesting opinions...  but we still have a denier in our midst.

Is anyone game to take on a challenge?

Please find a thread based on the successful pursuit of a 20 yr old FSUW from the past few years...  I know it's happened in the past... one of my best friends was a late-30's guy who married a 19yr old UW (Yes, they're still together 15 yrs later)

I don't even care if the guy isn't a "mid 20's young bull" - can you find one of these mythical pursuits from the past few years.

Please... OH PLEASE...  do not hold out Sculpto as a success story... 

Such pursuits where there is no cross-cultural difference rarely are successful as well. 10 year differences are becoming rarer it seems unless it's reversed with an older woman now referred as Cougars. Anything extending beyond 10 years is likely headed in the direction of eventual divorce. Before I get flamed for such a statement, I AM NOT stating ALL marriages with a significant age difference are going to end in divorce. But, the odds are not in their favor. This is just my personal observation that I have witnessed locally and on a few forums. I do believe the chances increase greatly if the woman is more matured and aged upper 30's+.

This day in age it is becoming a rarity that a young woman still in her 20's is ready for marriage (men too). Only less than 50% of those survive. Take that same young woman married to a much older man and those percentages are much worse. Take a woman on her 1st, 2nd or more marriage in her mid to late 30's+ and those odds increase. I have no data to back this up again, just observations from some I know of personally. It hardly qualifies as anything to hang a hat on but, it is from my experience, that I would offer advice.

I can see where TOP could be successful because he and his age are a much different dynamic than most on this board. He is very limited in his parameters but, also likely to be much more successful within those parameters than any on this board.

History tells most of us, Scultpo is in for a disappointing fall. In an effort to keep him from thinking I don't like him  I will refrain from anymore on that topic.     

[Misha]

Please find a thread based on the successful pursuit of a 20 yr old FSUW from the past few years...  I know it's happened in the past... one of my best friends was a late-30's guy who married a 19yr old UW (Yes, they're still together 15 yrs later)

The fact of the matter is that most of the men on such forum at at the youngest in their late 30s. It is rare that you will have any men under the age of 30, let alone 25 posting.

Just because something hasn't been done and posted here, it does not mean that it can't be done. Let's assume that TOP finds someone who is 20 and he spends a couple of years getting to know her. By the time she actually get to the United States, she will already be 22 or 23 and he will be a couple years older.

I don't even care if the guy isn't a "mid 20's young bull" - can you find one of these mythical pursuits from the past few years.

The old "bulls" do not fare necessarily any better even when they date much older women.

[Shadow]

As men age, children grow up faster than they remember, but adults become mature later.
That seems a contradiction.

[Kuna]

The fact of the matter is that most of the men on such forum at at the youngest in their late 30s. It is rare that you will have any men under the age of 30, let alone 25 posting.

Just because something hasn't been done and posted here, it does not mean that it can't be done. Let's assume that TOP finds someone who is 20 and he spends a couple of years getting to know her. By the time she actually get to the United States, she will already be 22 or 23 and he will be a couple years older.

The old "bulls" do not fare necessarily any better even when they date much older women.

RUBBISH!  Dude, you are just so wrong with short sighted posts like this!

I can think of more than a few examples of men 26 and 28 yrs of age who have been on this pursuit - convinced they'd found the "real thing" with a early 20's hottie - yet later realising they were deluded.

The question in my mind isn't even about the twenty something boys...  it's more about the sanity in ANYONE chasing after a girl under 25 - and EVEN MORE RIDICULOUSLY 20 - 22 yrs old.

We OFTEN see that, and it just doesn't matter what age the man is, I can still not think of a single example from the past 2 or 3 years where the couple ended up marrying.  I KNOW it happened 10 years ago...  but times have changed.

Case in point...  can't remember who it was but a very reasonable poster who never mentioned his girl's age until after the crash was imminent.  It was in Kherson and she was sucking him dry for requests of money for her uni fees.  He was young,  knew her friends well, visited often, but never realised she wasn't serious - he was little more than a meal ticket and a good time.

If a man has a goal of being a meal ticket and is just out for a good time I would respect his decisions more than pretending he was looking for a serious relationship - and still chasing 20 yr olds.  It's just a folly!

So...  anyone got any examples or do we still want to divert attention from the folly by saying "this is a first".   

I'm not a fan of rah rah and sending a member to certain failure.  I'd rather be honest with them instead of feeling nice and warm and fuzzy.

Kuna:

I think Top's personal plan, is more of a 3-5 year plan. If he follows through with it, he has a chance of success.  I hope he does find the right woman, and she is his exact same age.  The rest of it is a moot point.

We have nobody younger, that is anywhere near the stage that has made themselves known.  I would not even use that as anything more than one example.

I don't think it's a 3 - 5 year plan at all - I just think Top is building the story as it goes.  That's not a criticism... it's an observation of what many others have done (Justifying bad decisions even before they've made the bad decisions) on the way to their own personal train wreck.  (New thread on this coming one day)

The BEST option for Top IMHO would be to seek a 25 yr old and continue to take his time to get to know her...  Of course we know he's aiming younger because we see that ALL THE TIME.

I find it interesting that men can be claimed to be too young by men who are on or contemplating their 2nd or 3rd marriage.

If we were to bring the higher rate of failure of 2nd & 3rd marriages into the mix then perhaps it's the older divorced men who shouldn't be going to the FSU ?

Nice first post for a youngun'.  Welcome to RWD... now pull your pants up, turn that baseball cap around and listen to me clearly.   

I know this is hard to imagine but many of the divorced men, me included, can clearly attribute the divorce to marrying too young. 

Can you now understand why we offer the advice to someone who's not yet had that experience?

Now you may go back to your Playstation games and continue your life education.






My original post btw was to give Top the chance to consider his options - NOT stop his search.  Top is creating wonderful excuses as to why he can legitimately chase girls as young as 20...  I think a wise young person would realise this is a stupid choice when he could dramatically reduce his risk and find an even BETTER give if he started his search at 25.

[GoodOlBoy]

Kuna,

I am not sure that I completely understand your post.

We are talking about Schoolgirls (18-24).

SCHOOL GIRLS.....in other words "hands off", leave them alone Chester the Molester.

Why would anybody want to marry a schoolgirl, ask her to "dropout" of school and come to the GoodOl' USA?

And as far as marrying an uneducated 20-23 year old girl (no schooling), well.... that's just plain insane.

I am just asking, why are we even talking about this?


GOB

[Misha]

The question in my mind isn't even about the twenty something boys...  it's more about the sanity in ANYONE chasing after a girl under 25 - and EVEN MORE RIDICULOUSLY 20 - 22 yrs old.

Well, to be honest, most would question the sanity of any man chasing RW regardless of their age. However, it is one thing for a 50-year-old to chase a 20-year-old and a 25-year-old to date a 20-year-old. In an ideal world, the 25-year-old will not rush things (i.e. take years and not months or weeks) and will wait for her to graduate and get some work experience at home before thinking of immigration.

Here is the question: would you be so riled up if it was a 25-year-old Australian man dating a 20-year-old Australian woman? Personally, I would not see a problem.

It was in Kherson and she was sucking him dry for requests of money for her uni fees.  He was young,  knew her friends well, visited often, but never realised she wasn't serious - he was little more than a meal ticket and a good time.

And, we can also come up with some wonderful examples of 25 or 30-year-old women doing the same thing to older men.

If a man has a goal of being a meal ticket and is just out for a good time I would respect his decisions more than pretending he was looking for a serious relationship - and still chasing 20 yr olds.  It's just a folly!

Well, it could be said that it is folly for all men of all ages to be chasing RW young and old.

So...  anyone got any examples or do we still want to divert attention from the folly by saying "this is a first".   

No, simply saying that one must understand that life is made up of lots of grays.

I'm not a fan of rah rah and sending a member to certain failure.  I'd rather be honest with them instead of feeling nice and warm and fuzzy.

I will also acknowledge that what worked for me, may not be appropriate for somebody else.

I don't think it's a 3 - 5 year plan at all - I just think Top is building the story as it goes.  That's not a criticism... it's an observation of what many others have done (Justifying bad decisions even before they've made the bad decisions) on the way to their own personal train wreck. 

This also applies to middle-aged men marrying women in their late twenties and thirties.

The BEST option for Top IMHO would be to seek a 25 yr old and continue to take his time to get to know her...  Of course we know he's aiming younger because we see that ALL THE TIME.

How do we know this? 

[Misha]

We are talking about Schoolgirls (18-24).

And TOP who is 25. It is one thing for a 40-year-old or 50-year-old to pursue 20-year-old women, another thing for a 25-year-old man to date 20 to 25-year-old women. One can disagree as to whether TOP is too young to get married, but I would have no problems if my 20-year-old daughter was dating a nice guy who was 25.

[GoodOlBoy]

Misha I agree with you totally (given that they live in the same town).

When my daughter was 20 years old I can't tell you how I felt when I met some of the boy's she was dating. 

But, none of them would marry her, get her to dropout of school and leave the country.

BTW, I would have enjoyed my 20 year old daughter dating a 25 year old professional young man. NO PROBLEM.

Can't you and the rest of the forum see, we are talking about something entirely different here?

International "dating" is a whole hell of a lot different than dating some boy down the street.


GOB

[Misha]

But, none of them would marry her, get her to dropout of school and leave the country.

Keep in mind that a RW is likely to graduate when she is 20 or 21. A 20-year-old dating a 25-year-old would have plenty of time to graduate if they were not rushing things.

[Shadow]

Misha I agree with you totally.

When my daughter was 20 years old I can't tell you how I felt when I met some of the boy's she was dating. 

But, none of them would marry her, get her to dropout of school and leave the country.

BTW, I would have enjoyed my 20 year old daughter dating a 25 year old professional young man. NO PROBLEM.

Can't you and the rest of the forum see, we are talking about something entirely different here?


GOB

By the time ShadowJr is 25 I do not mind him dating someone in another country, if that is what interests him.
Would there be a MsShadowJr at the time, I also see no problems in her dating outside the 'peer group'.

If I had to choose between them dating a low age difference in another country or dating someone 15-20 years older, I would go for the international option at once.  
Even if the object of lust would be loaded and not want pre-nups.  :evil:

I just hope that I can give them an example to reach in marriage, just like we got examples from our parents.

[GoodOlBoy]

OK,

Let me brake this down in a rather crude way.

Local boy dates local girl. His biggest concern of the night is: "Will I 'score' with my date".

International Man dates local girl. His biggest concern of the night: "Will she marry me?" (Is she marriage material)

Unless your a Sex Tourist.  :evil:

I am just trying to say that there are 2 different mindsets in play here.


GOB