Another statistic

[krimster]

Once upon a time in the magic kingdom of Amerigo there lived a man named Francis Keys.  Francis was a member of an important guild, "the Healers" who sometimes were able to make healthy people of sick ones as well as the other way around.  The kingdom was overflowing with wealth, and healers were held in high esteem by most of the people and they paid the healers much gold so the healers would treat them with magic potions and spells to make them well.  One fine day, when Francis was at the peak of success in his guild, he suddenly proclaimed that he no longer wished to be a healer and he left the guild.  Francis left Amerigo and went to the very poor kingdom of Grimeya where he met and married a woman named Stella.  Now it came to pass that not very long after they were married that Francis and Stella returned to the kingdom of Amerigo, where Stella saw with amazement that all the legends about Amerigo were true, it was a land of wonder!  Alas, Francis was no longer a member of the healers guild and the vast amounts of gold he and Stella saw each day were not destined to be theirs.  This made Stella bitter, what an oaf of a husband I have, I cook and I clean, I clean and I cook, I live in a small shed next to the donkeys when I could be living in a castle, the way the wives of the other healers do, instead he sits in the corner all day talking to strangers on his magic net when he could be working as a healer!  One day, Stella finally had enough, he's just a lazy, good for nothing, happy to live next to the donkeys, but I am not, so Stella left Francis to seek the gold in Amerigo for herself, thinking, I will be happier with a little gold by my own hand, then none by husbands.  When Francis found out, he was besides himself, but he did what he always did, he began once more to talk to the strangers on his magic net until the stars were twinkling at him deep into the night.

[2tallbill]

Once upon a time in the magic kingdom of Amerigo there lived a man named Francis Keys. 

Relevant?

rel⋅e⋅vant
   /ˈrɛləvənt/  [rel-uh-vuhnt]
–adjective
bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent: a relevant remark.
Origin:
1550–60; < ML relevant- (s. of relevāns), special use of L, prp. of relevāre to raise, lift up. See relieve, -ant

Synonyms:
applicable, germane, apposite, appropriate, suitable, fitting

[Diplomacy]

Krim:

Enough already.  If you like guilds so much, go play World of Warcraft or something.  You are wasting your genius to the point of insanity.  You need to just stop already.  

You are clearly well read, but do not seem to be using it to do anything but spread hate and venom.

The dark elves await their leader, off you go!

[Vinnvinny]

Once upon a time in the magic kingdom of Amerigo there lived a man named Francis Keys.  Francis was a member of an important guild, "the Healers" who sometimes were able to make healthy people of sick ones as well as the other way around.  The kingdom was overflowing with wealth, and healers were held in high esteem by most of the people and they paid the healers much gold so the healers would treat them with magic potions and spells to make them well.  One fine day, when Francis was at the peak of success in his guild, he suddenly proclaimed that he no longer wished to be a healer and he left the guild.  Francis left Amerigo and went to the very poor kingdom of Grimeya where he met and married a woman named Stella.  Now it came to pass that not very long after they were married that Francis and Stella returned to the kingdom of Amerigo, where Stella saw with amazement that all the legends about Amerigo were true, it was a land of wonder!  Alas, Francis was no longer a member of the healers guild and the vast amounts of gold he and Stella saw each day were not destined to be theirs.  This made Stella bitter, what an oaf of a husband I have, I cook and I clean, I clean and I cook, I live in a small shed next to the donkeys when I could be living in a castle, the way the wives of the other healers do, instead he sits in the corner all day talking to strangers on his magic net when he could be working as a healer!  One day, Stella finally had enough, he's just a lazy, good for nothing, happy to live next to the donkeys, but I am not, so Stella left Francis to seek the gold in Amerigo for herself, thinking, I will be happier with a little gold by my own hand, then none by husbands.  When Francis found out, he was besides himself, but he did what he always did, he began once more to talk to the strangers on his magic net until the stars were twinkling at him deep into the night.

…. no mention of the asylum across the street and what the inmates made of it all?

[krimster]

Isaac Asimov once said that, "the two most common substances in the Universe are Hydrogen and stupidity".  Now that I have found on this web site an abundance of one of these substances, I shall now seek out a web site that deals with hydrogen

[ECOCKS]

On another aspect of the situation.....

Scott mentions this situation with "the other woman" several times in his recounting of this story. While it isn't precisely what I intended it is somewhat related to my belief that going out of your way to plant your wife in an ethnic-Russian/Ukrainian support group will negatively affect your wife's acclimatization efforts, particularly in language but also in other areas. This was a bit unforeseen since I assume no rational PERSON (male or female) encourages their spouse to hang around with people we don't "approve" of. Yes, I know, judgmental, controlling, domination, psychologically abusive, yada, yada, yada. However, before everyone jumps on me look back over what Scott said about this "other RW woman" and her American husband's effect on the wife or at least his perception of their effect.

Does anyone or maybe has anyone else ever felt that there are enough of the stereotypical FSUW golddiggers out there that this comprises a risk as your spouse begins to swim in the ocean of a new culture? Ever met an FSUW/M who you knew instinctively was a bad influence in the terms of the stereotype hytrya (sp?), scheming, Slavic version of Anna Nicole?  Would it be wrong for a spouse to discourage contact with a person like that or should you just blindly trust that they will be smart enough to see through the scheming and manipulative motivations of the other person?

My wife stated quite clearly that she was not concerned with the presence (or lack thereof) of an ethnic Russian community in our new hometown. In fact, when I noticed a Baltica Beer sign and whipped around to show her the Russian Bear Cafe and Bar, she very clearly said, "NO, I am not interested in how good their borscht tastes or whether they have varenyks just like Mama makes!"  

Now don't misunderstand she is interested in meeting FSUW who are married to AM but just not even curious about Russian communities in the US.  She wasn't even interested when I asked if she wanted to stop a day in Brighton Beach and look around. "I have seen Aptekas and Optikas, why do I need to see ones moved to America?"

Anyway, should guys be overly concerned at the influences on their wife's expectations by others? Maybe that should include even non-Russians?

[Daveman]

I don't want anyone jumping in here and making any moral judgements, I just want to expand a bit on the issue.

My wife inferred, but never specifically stated (and I didn't push the issue), that before we met she had boyfriends who would give her gifts or money because of her youth and beauty. I think that many beautiful women develop this sense or entitlement based on their looks because there are many men who will enable such thinking.  One comment she has made is that I have taken five years from her youth and I think she is afraid that if we break up she won't have this option now.  I'm sure this has a lot to do with her recent obsession with going on a diet....

Just a dietary implementation of Occam's Razor for the thought process...

Is it possible that she had a completely different behavior with you because she loved you?  ... and during the long separation while you were preparing for her arrival, she simply fell out of love?

Doesn't really appear that she was taking you for a ride before, but an obviously different behavior later.  While I'm not making a character judgment, love does have the capacity to change people, at least for a period of time.

[Misha]

Yes, her views did change after she came here.  Just like with AW, there is a competition between them and other women.  They look around to see who has the bigger house, the nicer car, the best nails, etc.  In Ukraine, it was her, so no problem. 

Scott, it is probably too early and too painful at this point to see the contraction in what you are saying. She did not change, based on what you write in the next sentence.

[Diplomacy]

He is saying that she was the top dog in her social circle.  Even moved up to another tier in Ukraine.  She did not change, she was happy in Ukraine because she was the one envied.
Once in America, she was not at the same status level she was in Ukraine.  She could not handle that, as she watched other "friends" with nicer cars and luxury.

Scott had a long term plan, thought she was happy with that plan.  She tried to be happy with it, and is now not happy.  The environment changed, the woman did not.

He was one thing in her eyes in the Ukraine, and not in America.  He knows the pride factor, and she did not have pride.  You can not make someone feel pride, it is something they must find for themselves.  Happiness is the same thing. 

I did not find any contradiction personally.

[Gator]

Krimster,

How much glass is your house constructed of?

[Misha]

He is saying that she was the top dog in her social circle.  Even moved up to another tier in Ukraine.  She did not change, she was happy in Ukraine because she was the one envied.
Once in America, she was not at the same status level she was in Ukraine.  She could not handle that, as she watched other "friends" with nicer cars and luxury.

Again, she did not change. She was likely envious in Ukraine, simply Scott could satisfy her material wants at that time. Now, he could not her new wants.

He was one thing in her eyes in the Ukraine, and not in America.  He knows the pride factor, and she did not have pride.  You can not make someone feel pride, it is something they must find for themselves.  Happiness is the same thing. 

You can't make someone love either  

I did not find any contradiction personally.

Simple: Scott is implying that she changed, that somehow she was not envious in Ukraine and changed in America. I am saying that she remained the same woman, simply her true colors may have been more evident in her new surroundings based on what Scott has revealed.

[Blues Fairy]

An interesting thing is that before I came to live there, she had many single woman friends in basically the same position she was in.  After I came and she "moved up in the world", these women became jealous and the friendships ended.  I didn't see my wife flaunting anything or acting better than them.  It was just them hating to see someone rise above them in some way.  Her new friends became those around us who had similar financial situations.

Blues Fairy, I've tried to look back and see where such shallowness was observable but there is really nothing that stands up and waves a red flag, in fact the flags all looked pretty green to me.  Can you see where I might have missed something?

It's hard to say.  There's a proverb in Russia, "tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are".  No matter how little or how much your wife had, it was all about her material situation.  I have a hard time imagining my friends abandoning me just because my financial situation changed - or me abandoning them for the same reason.  In fact my friends vary greatly in terms of their financial standing - some are rich and some are penniless, but what do I care!  To attribute so much weight to material possessions and to allow them to determine your life is just weird, weird, weird.  If that's not shallowness and materialism, I don't know what is.

Why did she only associate with such people?  Perhaps because her own mind was very similar?    

[ScottinCrimea]

Maybe she was always this way and there was just never the opportunity in Ukraine for her to mainfest it, or maybe she did indeed change once she came over.  Very difficult to say.

Daveman, I do believe that she did love me at some point.  Perhaps at some point this faded and it just became easier to stay with me than to forge out on her own.  She may have felt that, now that she and her daughter were in the US and she had at least some means to support herself, she could look for greener pastures.  I think that toward the end she was trying to do the bare minimum necessary for me to stay with her until her daughter's visa was secured.

I don't see any evidence that she has been looking for other men.  She is still stating emphatically that she does NOT want a divorce but won't provide a reason why.  Perhaps because she mistakenly thinks that a dovorce will make her unable to stay in the US?

[ECOCKS]

Is Utah a no-fault state?

[krimster]

Gator,
   The world I live in is not so fragile.  I don't feel the need to defend myself from any accusation, so I won't even bother to.  If someone places their dirty laundry next to me, at least grant me the right to exclaim, "peeeeeewwww". 

Our dear Russian cousins have a wonderful saying which in English would roughly be, "your word in God's ear".  Well, it would seem the gods do in their omnipotence read RWD, and gravely rendered their verdict.   No human words could ever match their deed.  Scott's nemesis is not me, nor is it his wife.  It is something within Scott.  Hubris is often attributed as a character flaw of the heroes in Greek tragedy, and the cause of the "nemesis", or destruction, which befalls these characters.  Do not mistake my poor attempts at showing this aspect of this story as casting stones.  Instead I ask the rest of you, why are you advising Scott to try and clutch the sand as it is being pulled into the sea?  Scott has the chance and I'm sure the ability to start over, but to do so he must face an inconvenient truth

[ScottinCrimea]

krimster, to be honest I've never really understood your obsession with me.  Exactly what is your goal in posting all of this?

If you are sincerely interested in offering me some help, why don't you just PM me provately with your insights?

The fact that you feel the need to post on the open forum suggests a personal agenda or sickness that is not pretty any way you look at it.

[krimster]

Scott,
   Why point out the spec in my eye when there is a tree in your own?

[Daveman]

It's hard to say.  There's a proverb in Russia, "tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are".  No matter how little or how much your wife had, it was all about her material situation.  I have a hard time imagining my friends abandoning me just because my financial situation changed - or me abandoning them for the same reason.  In fact my friends vary greatly in terms of their financial standing - some are rich and some are penniless, but what do I care!  To attribute so much weight to material possessions and to allow them to determine your life is just weird, weird, weird.  If that's not shallowness and materialism, I don't know what is.

Why did she only associate with such people?  Perhaps because her own mind was very similar?    

This is an excellent and well worded perspective on the situation.  Truly.  Obviously I agree.

Scott, I have little doubt she loved you at some point too, and from your words here, it's easy to see how much you loved and love her.  My main concern at this point is that you have mentioned the word "reconciliation".  Of course that would be wonderful, but her actions and words of abuse, and especially allowing her daughter to speak words of abuse to you shows a distinctive lack of not only appreciation, but simply love.  This part about her daughter is so off the wall to me -- no matter what my personal situation, if I had a child who completely disrespected someone who helped raise, support, etc like that, he/she would be in the emergency room having my leg removed from the anal cavity where it had completely broken off from a tremendous kick -- figuratively of course.

Just be very careful with the heart strings and if or how you allow her to tug them.  Reconciliation with love and respect, but nothing short.  I don't want to see a frying pan to fire kind of thing happen. Be careful and CYA man.

[Daveman]

Scott,
   Why point out the spec in my eye when there is a tree in your own?

For phuck's sake Krimster -- back off.  It's obvious you and Scott have some history, but really, at this point, at this time, it simply appears that you are delighting in some misfortune of another.  If that isn't the epitome classlessness then I don't have a clue what would be.

Funny, I enjoy reading your posts and always have.. but this really isn't the time for the Hatfield/McCoy nonsense. 

If you really have some "words of advice" on what you think Scott needs to change in himself. Cease and desist with the cryptic crap and take it to PM's where it might actually help the situation in some way. 

[Gator]

Krimster,

As I stated before, Scott followed the road less traveled.  Just because you and I would not travel his road is not a reason to say Scott’s problem is his own doing. 

Mensa members tend not achieve financial success equal to their intellect and many instead happily choose low stress, low paying jobs such as delivering mail.  Are they that smart to realize that high paying jobs are not worth it? 

I found Scott’s balanced reaction and his analysis to be incredibly candid.  Scott seems not to be in denial nor is he blaming his wife other than saying that he and she are different and that she would prefer more conspicuous consumption.  Most of us would be in an emotional haze, making me think that Scott expected for some time that this would happen.  

I recall how you had stalked Scott before and actually prompted him to be more honest about a certain episode in Ukraine that he selectively failed to disclose.  This new episode seems different somehow.  And if not, I don’t think this is the place to browbeat him.  He asked for a PM, so why not do it.  If you are an acquaintance, it would be decent of you to call him.

Perhaps the breakup of his marriage is the best for Scott, freeing him to do what he wants to do.  Regardless, I would think that Scott knows what’s best for Scott.  After all, Scott is not doing a Sculpto.

[krimster]

Regretfully,  I feel no compulsion to be singled out as someone who others feel must follow their guidelines when they do not even follow it themselves.  Sorry 'bout that.  If a topic is made public what can be objectionable then to a public response?  Is the only permissible motivation for posting here "to help someone", please.....

Gator,
> I recall how you had stalked Scot

This is laughable, when driving by Scott's apartment with a mutual acquaintance, I took a picture of it because he pointed it out to me, it's in my collection of a million other pictures from Ukraine.  If this is stalking, mea culpa, as are the other charges here, how silly do you need to make this?

Since this discussion is bogged down in the mud, I would rather prefer to let it sink to the bottom, let Scott derive whatever comfort he can from here, I will step out of his way if my words cause him and others such distress...  I am sure that hydrogen with it's simple symmetry of proton and electron, will be a more suitable subject for me to pursue... 

[GoodOlBoy]

Since this discussion is bogged down in the mud, I would rather prefer to let it sink to the bottom, let Scott derive whatever comfort he can from here, I will step out of his way if my words cause him and others such distress... I am sure that hydrogen with it's simple symmetry of proton and electron, will be a more suitable subject for me to pursue... 

Hasta La Vista Baby and don't let the door hit you on the way out.  :evil:


GOB

[krimster]

Please don't call me "baby", when done by someone with a very obvious Napoleon complex, it's kinda creepy, you may now have the last word to elevate your low self-esteem, now really I must go...

 Constant ridicule and attacks on Scott

[ECOCKS]

Off-topic: How you can suggest this guy is Mensa material is beyond me.  At best I might be willing to consider he has a basic understanding of the use of reference materials but then remember that the miracle of the Internet allows many to spew this sort of pseudo-intellectual crap indiscriminately.

[Mir]

  I am sure that hydrogen with it's simple symmetry of proton and electron, will be a more suitable subject for me to pursue...

Mark I sometimes wondered what happened to you? Did not realize you are still in Ukraine and post here.
BTW there is no need for you to go looking for Zee Gas, your head is full of it