Another statistic

[Turboguy]

Murmur,

I won't disagree with the wisdom of what you are saying, however, you are wasting your breath. 

The cold hard realities of it are that if someone went there looking for the same level of woman he can find in the US he would quickly find he could do better than he can in the US and lose his common sense. 

Second, if someone went looking for the same level of woman he can get in the US, it would not make much sense to persue this venture would it.   Why spend all the money and time to get what you can get here with little effort.   I will however agree that FSU women possess some qualities that make one who is physically equivilent to what you can get in the USA still a far better potential wife.

Third, talking to someone who is inexperienced and has listened to some of the agency hype, has written to a few women who he could not dream of catching here and found interest is like talking to a brick wall.   As I said in my opening, you are wasting your breath.

[Ronnie]

Murmur,

I won't disagree with the wisdom of what you are saying, however, you are wasting your breath. 

The cold hard realities of it are that if someone went there looking for the same level of woman he can find in the US he would quickly find he could do better than he can in the US and lose his common sense. 

Second, if someone went looking for the same level of woman he can get in the US, it would not make much sense to persue this venture would it.   Why spend all the money and time to get what you can get here with little effort.   I will however agree that FSU women possess some qualities that make one who is physically equivilent to what you can get in the USA still a far better potential wife.

Third, talking to someone who is inexperienced and has listened to some of the agency hype, has written to a few women who he could not dream of catching here and found interest is like talking to a brick wall.   As I said in my opening, you are wasting your breath.

I don't think about "levels" so much.  What  drove me to some extent was what the French call, "la difference."  My wife has a different view on things that sometimes is confusing, other times amusing, but always intriguing.  Things are never dull.

[Faux Pas]

Murmur,

I won't disagree with the wisdom of what you are saying, however, you are wasting your breath. 

The cold hard realities of it are that if someone went there looking for the same level of woman he can find in the US he would quickly find he could do better than he can in the US and lose his common sense. 

Second, if someone went looking for the same level of woman he can get in the US, it would not make much sense to persue this venture would it.   Why spend all the money and time to get what you can get here with little effort.   I will however agree that FSU women possess some qualities that make one who is physically equivilent to what you can get in the USA still a far better potential wife.

Third, talking to someone who is inexperienced and has listened to some of the agency hype, has written to a few women who he could not dream of catching here and found interest is like talking to a brick wall.   As I said in my opening, you are wasting your breath.

Turbo somewhere on these boards the idea of finding the "person" rather than the trading up to different levels really gets lost. I think I can state with a large degree of certainty that those who fail to search for the lady who stimulates them intellectually, personally and sexually the relationship is doomed for failure.

Most of us are aware that the young beautiful centerfolds are all available. Most for a cost few are able or willing to pay. They are also available in the US, usually requiring payment up front. I realize I am probably in a small minority of posters here who traveled to meet what I thought was a wonderful woman without any regards to trading up/down to her american counterparts. When I started searching, I didn't have age, profession, class or beauty requirements. I didn't consider for a moment of "trading up".

I'll freely admit the photos caused me to pause and skim the profile. If after skimming and I found it interesting I read it completely. Most of those ladies were what I would have considered attainable for me even if they were in the US.

I am not exactly sure what I am trying to convey here other than I think more emphasis during a search should be placed on the "person rather than a beautiful face, a taut body or one mega years younger. Search for "the person".

[Jazzyclassy]

Good point here. you know what's the problem of AM seeking RW? Not the geography. The objective.
If you are a middle aged average looking AM, looking for a 20 something Russian/Ukrainian model - you are heading in for trouble. You would be much better off if you applied the same American  dating standards to the FSU ladies. If you are 50 something average looking Joe with average income - look for a lady from the same field of life. No more than 10 years of age difference, same mentality, same look. " Po Sen'ke shapka".
If you think that a hot Russian/Ukr. chick will fall in love with you just because you are a blue passport holder, you are in for a big surprise.
It is no different there, than it is here, in America. Everything will fall into place. If she had no feelings for you to begin with, she will hit the road when she gets the GC. You will be lucky if she will leave you a couple of bucks in your bank account.
Sorry, the author of the topic - nothing personal, my post has nothing to do with your situation. I am speaking  generally here.
Of course, every coin has two sides. But that is a different story.

I think that is a very good point and a lot of western men do not consider it and they think  if it's Russia or Ukraine it will be different from America , it will definitely be the same . I totally agree -По Сеньке шапка

[BC]

My words for the day:

Seeking a RW?.. you're probably barking up the wrong tree.

[Ronnie]

According to our Russian-trained gastroenterologist, nearly 3 in 4 immigrants from Eastern Europe have the H Pylori bacterium.  This seems to be born out by data reporting that half the world's population have it as well.  H Pylori is the cause of ulcers and can increase the risk of stomach cancer as well as cause other stomach discomfort.  The bacterium is picked up usually in childhood from unclean water and fresh vegetables.

Please ask your doctor to check using a stool analysis or other effective test.  FWIW our Doctor said he himself had it when he immigrated and my wife tested positive today herself and will begin two-week treatment regime that is about 85% effective in eradicating it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori

[ScottinCrimea]

Well Ronnie, since the title of this thread is "another statistic" and you did throw in a couple of statistics, I guess you can justify including it in this thread rather than starting a new one

On the other hand, maybe H. pylori was the true underlying problem in our relationship and if I had only caught it sooner we would still be happily together.   

[Ronnie]

Well Ronnie, since the title of this thread is "another statistic" and you did throw in a couple of statistics, I guess you can justify including it in this thread rather than starting a new one

On the other hand, maybe H. pylori was the true underlying problem in our relationship and if I had only caught it sooner we would still be happily together.   

Forgive me Scott for throwing that post into your thread.  I did start a new thread...not that there's really a need for a discussion... but wanted to reach as many RW as possible with this information, so I threw it into several active threads as well as the new one. 

I was shocked to learn the high incidence of the condition in Eastern European immigrants and it doesn't go away unless treated with antibiotics apparently.  My wife has had intermittent episodes of vomiting that last two-three days over the years.  Hopefully she can enjoy better health after the treatments.

[MarkLeftTX]

I think that is a very good point and a lot of western men do not consider it and they think  if it's Russia or Ukraine it will be different from America , it will definitely be the same . I totally agree -По Сеньке шапка

For those of you who don't speak Russian, I believe the translation for this is roughly: "Pick a hat that fits your head."

I love those Russian expressions!

[mies]

Scott, I wish you all the best.

[mies]

Hopefully she can enjoy better health after the treatments.

4 out of 4 russian women also have bacteria E.Coli in their stomach. Go figure. 

[krimster]

Mies,
   To perform a property title change, Ukraine requires a tax to be paid of 3% of the value of the property plus a whole list of "processing fees", plus bribes depending on how long you're willing to wait for the documents to be completed.  This is simply for a name change from one person to another, makes no difference whatsoever who paid for the property, just whose name is on the title.

It would be a VERY, VERY bad idea for any foreigner to do this themselves, even IF they knew how.  You instead need to hire a "facilitator" or helper, who is usually a large middle-aged matron with badly died hair.  You will have to pay this person a fee that can be anywhere from 20% to 200% of the actual costs involved depending on your negotiating skill.  After a great deal of aggravation you will have a title, so long as the other party is willing to simply give it to you.  A Ukrainian simply giving someone an apartment, is to be quite honest, not something I ever heard of.... 

[mies]

   To perform a property title change,

I do not doubt it.

[ScottinCrimea]

Yeah, this is a rather tricky one and something I would rather not discuss here as she could possibly be checking this site out, and I would prefer if others here don't express ideas about this.  There's really nothing that can be done for the next year anyway as it is currently leased out.  After the dust settles on the divorce and the emotions have calmed down with all concerned, I'll address this.  I'm fully prepared to lose the property, but I think I have some options.

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay, guys, I have some additional information and am weighing my options.  I would appreciate some input from the group.

My wife has admitted that she is self-petitioning for removal of conditions on her green card based on her being a battered or abused spouse.  Some here, specifically Maxx2, have stated that this would put my name in the system such that I may have problems in the future either getting my passport renewed or sponsoring anyone else.  Others have had a similar situation and have stated that they have not had any problems with either.  There is also the concern that as her sponsor I would be permanently responsible for her financially under the Affidavit of Support to the point of even being ordered to pay her at a level of 110% of the poverty level should she find a reason not to work.  This concern is real since she has apparently heard of this from someone and has repeatedly stated that since I am her sponsor I must support her and she does not need to work.  She also claims some nonspecific heart condition that prevents her from working more than she does. Personally, apart from all of this, I hate that there would be any document anywhere that suggests I am abusive in any form.  I spent time as a physician for a battered women's shelter and have seem real forms of abuse and hate that I should be accused of this or that the system should be abused in such a way.

With these concerns in mind, I made an appointment and spoke to a local immigration officer and told him the story.  With regards to the passport and sponsorship issues, he said that this would be in her file and that they don't keep such records on citizens so there should be no problem for me in the future.  But his recommendation to me was that I obtain a letter from the local police documenting that I have never been charged with domestic violence.  He says the standard is for the couple to petition together and if there is a self petition they look at it very closely and there must be some evidence rather than just her claim or a letter from the shelter.  She has absolutely no evidenceof being battered and even admits that her petition is based solely on verbal abuse. He says it looks very bad that she left so soon after her daughter arrived as it suggests that as soon as she got what she wanted, she left.  If they determine that it was fraud, they will also revoke her daughter's green card and send her home as well.

He says I should just send the letter outlining everything I told him and it would be placed in her file and seen by the local immigration office when they consider her petition.  He said thatI really have a lot of control over whether she stays or goes.  He also said most men just let it go and move on.

Now I know thatif I should send this letter, the odds are very good that they will reject her petition.  The evidence against her is just too damning and the evidence for her is just too weak.

My preference is that she would have worked with me on the petition and this would have never come up in the first place.  As much as I want to be a nice guy and just let this go so she and her daughter can stay, I've had too many people telling me that my focus now should be on taking care of myself, and it certainly didn't enter her mind that it might cause me damage to claim I am an abuser.

I did make the mistake (maybe) of telling her about this letter I was asked to write and of course she is threatening all kinds of consequences if I do.  Certainly if I do get her sent back to Ukraine even the slim chance that I might get my property back there would be doomed.

I could do one of several things:

I could just send the letter and be damned with the consequences.

I could not send it and be damned with the consequences.

I could send it but tell her I didn't and be very comforting to her in my expressions of how much I am willing to do to help her stay here. (It is very doubtful that they would tell her about the letter anyway)

I could hold onto the letter and advise her that if I see any negative actions toward me by her I will send it (of course I would need to be sore no one else heard me say this)

Either way, based on her lack of any evidence of abuse, they may deny her petition even without the letter, so it all may be moot.

Okay, let's hear the ideas and opinions, but please base them on some sort of personal experience or legitimate concern.

[Vaughn]

Scott, if it were me, I wouldn't be concerned about either or both of them remaining in the USA. What
does concern me is the amount of contact you're having with her - and "sparring" with point and
counterpoint before the hearing.

My gut says - say nothing. Retain competent counsel, and give her NO opportunity to level such
DV claims by meeting her anywhere - under any circumstances. As you stated,

based on her lack of any evidence of abuse, they may deny her petition even without the letter,

Don't open any doors for her to create evidence in the future. And yeah, I think documentation from your
local police department showing your clean record is a worthwhile strategy.

Vaughn

[OlgaH]

Don't open any doors for her to create evidence in the future. And yeah, I think documentation from your local police department showing your clean record is a worthwhile strategy.

Vaughn

Agree, and also, I think, it would be good for you to have a letter from the battered women's shelter where you spent time as a physician.

[brucen36]

Hi:

I don't have any personal experience, but based on what you have written, I would choose option #4: "I could send it but tell her I didn't and be very comforting to her in my expressions of how much I am willing to do to help her stay here." 

It's often the best thing to take the high road, but at the same time you can't just let her treat you like dirt.  If she stays here who knows what hell she will cause you in the future and how much of a burden she will be.  Seems like she just used you and you need to send her a message that this is not proper.  Send her back.

B

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey ScottinCrimera.

Speaking from the voice of experience, (I have seen 2 episodes of this false DV crap here where I live) get yourself legal counsel and stay the hell away from this lady and her daughter.

You need to sever all emotional ties, NOW.

You are really going to be in a world of sh*t if you don't my friend.

Forget about your losses (property in Ukraine).

Save your reputation!!


GOB

[acrzybear]

Scott

 As you are aware I am not a lawyer, however my advice is to go to your local police department everywhere you have lived (in the U.S) with this woman and have them print out a history of you and (this is the part most people don't know about) and the history of the residence during the time you lived there with her. This will show that the police have either never been to your residence or if they have, why they responded.  If the local police never responded try to get a letter saying "Maybury RFD PD never responded to 123 Main street during the period of ---  ."

 Also I would severe all contact with her and get a good divorce Attorney and have him/her work in your interest.  You probably want to be a gentleman about this whole affair, but listen to your attorney and let him/her look out for your interests.  You might even have the attorney tell her that if she gets nasty then the letter will be sent (not sure of the legal issues on this), again let your attorney deal with this.

 good luck

[ECOCKS]

I echo what Crzy and GOB told you. Just get the best lawyer you can afford, turn it over to them and stop ALL contact IMMEDIATELY. Also, move to somewhere she cannot find you and then get out of town. You're making all the classic mistakes. Read back in the first dozen or so pages what almost all of us were telling you. This progression is dangerous to you in almost every possible way and you were telling us everything was fine while most everyone could tell you were standing so close to the flame that you could not feel the fire.

This is all about protecting yourself now.

[ScottinCrimea]

I really appreciate the comments so far.  For those of you who are concerned about ongoing contact with her, I have not seen her in maybe three weeks now and that was just to exchange personal property and was in the parking lot of a 7-11 in broad daylight with video surveilance cameras onsite.  I have absolutely no plans to be anywhere near her prior to the divorce.  I do not communicate with her in writing and do not initiate phone calls to her.  This call was by her and ignored twice before I finally answered and it was about a bill she had gotten that she thought I should pay for.  This was our first phone conversation in maybe two weeks.

I'm trying my hardest not to let any residual feelings for her or any sense of vindictiveness have a role in my decision-making but understanding the difficulty of this is one of the reasons I solicited advice here.  To be honest, whenever we have talked she has done a very good job of severing any remaining emotional ties.  I'm more able to step back and see her for what she actually is, and it's not pretty.

It was strange when I went to the police station about the letter.  They said they had never heard of anyone asking for such a letter before.  I told them that all I needed was a letter saying, "According to our records Scott... has no criminal record and has never had a complaint of domestic violence."  This really seemed to baffle them.  After much discussion they finally said this could be accomplished with a background check and have offered to provide this to me.

As far as whether she and her daughter go back to Ukraine or not, obviously it would be worse for them if they were sent back.  The question remains, then, which would be in my best interests.  I'm begininning to think that the answer is obvious.

[ECOCKS]

Scott, quit trying to DIY this. Your lawyer will write the letter and back it up with the background checks that can be obtained. I am pretty sure that is what Crzy meant by "getting a letter." Let your lawyer do this and get away before you get trapped or accidentally do or say something that will come back to haunt you.

[Maxx2]

1) There is nothing you can do to affect her self petition other than an annulment. If you are hearing otherwise you are being lied to. USCIS employees and immigration attorneys do not alway tell the truth especially to a fellow who is devastated that this is happening to. She has enough evidence to file an abuse petition. Proof of living at a women's shelter and her statement is enough. She doesn't need hard evidence. You are locked out of the process. Even the local and regional USCIS service centers can not interfer. The VSC sent out to the service centers a memo (see below) that they are not allowed to interfer in their VAWA cases. Those USCIS employees who do and pass on information to non authorised individual (non USCIS employee) are subject to diciplinary action and a $5000 fine for each instance. In other words the USCIS locks everyone out of the process except those at the VSC VAWA staff. Read this:   http://www.immigrationfraudvictims.us/Revocation%20of%20VAWA-Based%20Self-Petitions.pdf

2) I have never heard of a Affidavit of Support being collected upon to the citizen spouse by the Federal Government. That could change.

3) Passport renewal problems in the future. I know of only one case so far where this has been a problem. There maybe more. John Sampson is looking into it with his friends in the State department.

4) Name in a Federal file as an abuser? Do a google search using  I-360 self-petition USCIS. Then look for the official form. Then look at section A where the citizen spouse's name is to be placed.

5) As far as petitioning another K Visa. I have heard of rejections in recent years and have heard of none granted (except in an annulment case) if VAWA was involved with the previous K-visa. In 2006 VAWA was reenacted and made more restrictive. Then there are internal memos on what to do with this or that (see the PDF above as an example).

6) The USCIS will not accept anything you give them. If they do it will be disposed of. 

Like everyone is saying. Keep your head down low and avoid being arrested. Most women believe they need hard evidence of abuse to self petition themselves. That is what makes this such a dangerous time for men like you. I would do my best to stay out of sight.   

[acrzybear]

Scott

 Don't forget what I said above "get the history of the residence during the time you lived there with her. This will show that the police have either never been to your residence or if they have, why they responded.  If the local police never responded try to get a letter saying "Maybury RFD PD never responded to 123 Main street during the period of ---  ."


 This is extremely important in helping disprove her false claims.