Realities of FSUW

[Sculpto]

When one is working and raising a family spending half a day saving pennies isn't an option, and isn't frugality either. Time is money - and I prefer to earn more and to have more to spend than running around looking for "bargains". Though of course, I like a bargain, everyone does   And if something is worth more than I want to pay for it - more often than not I'll do without, even if I have the money.
I would have been upset with a partner, who considered theater tickets, etc. "a waste".

We have an expression in the USA.. "Anyone who pays full retail is an idiot."  Today I went to the Big Lots store.. I don't know if they are a national chain or not.. but it is a discount store that purchases brand new first rate products that were overuns or leftover inventory from fancy department stores.  So, if I can buy the same bedding I was looking for for $15 bucks that would cost me $125 at Macys I would say that is smart.  Fortunately finding bargains in SF isn't nearly as difficult as it is in Moscow..

 and about the theater tics.. she was upset I spent $50 per ticket.. when we went to the opera it was about $10 per ticket.. she would have been happy to go to something less expensive but I really wanted to take her to see Beauty and the Beast to get a little taste of American culture.  She was not 100% aware that this was a Disney production.. and it was really a great show.  Not really the kind of theater I would ordinarily go to see, but, I didn't have to speak Russian to "get it".  The only thing that I didn't like about it.. and keep in mind I am a smoker, was during the intermission in the smoking area.. my god I have never in my entire life seen anythign so disgusting.. I almost quit smoking right then and there.. the cloud of smoke that came out of the smoking lobby filled the entire theater after intermission.
  

Which only proves that thuis guy was an idiot - nothing to do with making big money.

I wish it was that simple Wienerin.  What you forget is I grew up around such people and my Dad was one of them.  Lots of 16 year olds that got Porches and BMW for their 16th birthday and all kinds of other incredible excesses.  But, what i saw then were a lot of very shallow and materialistic people who cared nothing about the world except that they had more than others.  They spent their time "one upping" each other.  They were nasty behind each others backs, dishonest and absolutely rabid if anyone pointed out their spiritual shortcomings.  Most of them are the same today so many years later.  A few had some kind of experience like I did, going someplace that opened their eyes, and have done good things for this world.  But, the specific guy in question was the LAST of that group I expected to have become so shallow.  He was a very serious and soulfull guy, that is why he was my friend.  But, the money got to him.. it filled his ego with delusions that he was somehow more special than other people and he could do anything he wanted and get away with it.  Then on the other hand there are people like Bill Gates that now devotes most of his time and treasure to the benefit of mankind.  I am sure it keeps his feet on the ground.

It's a happy life when you don't know anything better. Though how happy such really poor (and living almost in the 19th century - except for the motor-boat) people are when there's no fish, nobody buys ,lobsters, the family is starving or somebody gets really ill - I'll let you guess. (also why they flock to the US to be unhappy AND illegal here). I lived like this in most of the ways, and it wasn't a pretty life. Also why do these happy-happy people look like 60 when they're in their 30s - women in particular, - I'll let you guess also.

Why do you think she doesn't know any better?  didn't you look at the puerto sites?  There is a lot of money there.  There is a constant flow of international tourism staying in mansions and spending spending spending.. she has it in her face all the time.  

Why didn't my daughter come to the USA?  The fact of the matter, and now of course we are crossing threads, but, the % of immigration from Mexico is actually not that high.  Mexico is a big country with over 100 million people.  It is estimated there are about 15 million here.  So, that makes the total population of Mexicans about 115 million.  But, those 15 million didn't come all at once.. it has been a process of how many years?  Decades even?  The yearly percentage is way less than 1% of the total population.. just about the same numbers of Russians that are leaving Russia every year.  

So, now back to my daughter.. by no means does she look older than her age.  She has an extremely healthy lifestyle with really excellent fresh food and tons of walking and fresh air every day.  She has never in her entire life spent a day sitting in front of a computer.  

Now, her mother on the other hand is another story.. that poor woman was far more "primitive" for lack of a better word and spent her life cooking tortillas over an open fire.  She is definitely aged beyond her years.  But, all the children in that family learned a lot from me and none of them have repeated what their mother did.  They live simple, uncomplicated, frugal and healthy lives and with the exception of the oldest sister who has a rotten born again 7th Day Adventist "believer" husband who forced her to have a lot more children than she wanted and forces her to participate in church community activites that she isn't interested in and doesn't believe in, but, 5 of 6 children in the family are really happy adults.  You are judging something you know nothing about.

[Zhena]

Zhena, you misunderstood me. In the last year alone, I've bought our first home (this home was my wife's choice and her name is on the title) and a brand new car. Perhaps for you a pair of nice earrings is preferable  - my wife doesn't lack for smaller gifts such as jewelry, also.

However, I don't buy her gifts because it's my obligation or I worry that she'll dump me for a wealthy man - and I think that's the root of the disconnect here. In a healthy relationship, when a guy buys his gf/fiancee/wife a gift, it comes from his heart. If he's doing it because she expects it as a token of his love or because he's afraid she'll dump him for someone wealthier, he has bigger problems.

I can only speak for myself, but years ago when I was single and read posts about how I must expect to buy x,y, and z to keep a RW happy, I used to get offended. Not because I couldn't afford x, y, and z, but because the idea that my primary motivation in giving gifts was to rise above other men pursuing her was a big turn-off to me. This may seem like a tiny distinction to many women, but for myself (and presumably other men) it's of paramount importance. Everything I did and everything I do for my wife comes from my heart, and at the end of the day it may seem all the same to you but it's not. 

groovlstk,who told you my name is not in the title of our house? :oOr you think only you did that for your wife and now you shouldnt give any more gifts in her life? No,you shouldnt do that,cos you afraid she will leave you-you should do that because YOU LOVE HER and want to see her happy eyes when she opens thr box. If you dont understand that,its useless to say anything more.

[Ade]

No,not pregnant anymore
Been pretty much pregnant on the avatar pic which Jaded criticised so much and somehow linked with my posts :DThan added that his fiancee looks as teenager-dont know,what it has to do with this topic,really When I dont wear my makeup everyone asks my ID also to make sure I am 21-so? Geez,this forum reminds me the bundle of the bees,disturbed by the bear,whos trying to steal their honey-thats how the men here react if some RW comes and starts to write. They try to stin Of course,they dont like if some stupid woman tells them she knows the women better than they do.

Maybe you missed the part of my post where I said I thought you were the dude in the photo initially?  The reason I mentioned it was that you posted your age and he definitely doesn't look 30 let alone younger. And I also didn't say my fiancée looked like a teenager. Please, don't put words into my mouth.

As for you knowing women better than men, well, I also have a woman telling me things that contradict what you say. Don't project your materialism onto everyone else.   

[Zhena]

You know what,Jaded,just because I know women better than you do,I know,that many wives and ESPECIALLY fiances say what they men would like to hear. Even unconciously. Maybe because she really wants to get married,maybe because she wants to immigrate to another country. I will tell you-it is NOT normal for RW dont like the beautiful clothes and other little things. For WW-happens pretty often. But Russian culture is pretty much about the luxuries,not asketism. Some women,who live in the West for many years,may transform some,but still they like the quality which is not cheap. On the womans forum,where are the hundreds od women,I know only 2,who doesnt care what they dressed in. One is more than 50,and another is about 50. The young women like to look good,it is as natural for them as to breath. So,if your woman says,that she doesnt care -she probably knows that she cant get what she wants and tries to convince you and herself than she is totally satisfied. Good for her

[Misha]

Of course,they dont like if some stupid woman tells them she knows the women better than they do.

You are one woman, and (fortunately) do not represent all RW 

[Sculpto]

Zhena,

I think the reason so many of us have reacted so negatively to your posts is actually rather simple.

All of us who are trying to find the good loving woman in the FSU have also along the way encountered all kinds of not so good women.  Between the scamming agency sites, the independent and scammer gangs, pro daters, gcg girls and so on it is really a very risky thing to try.  So, when you come on here and start telling us that the most important thing is money I am sorry but you are going to get a strong reaction to that because the mere idea of what you are saying is enough to make a lot of us give up the effort.

It is unfortunate that it is so.  It is unfortunate that often the lowest quality men think they can "buy" an FSU wife.  The so called "loser" men and the money hungry girls on agency sites fill a nice little subcategory of scum bag humans.  But...

Not all of the men here on this forum are such men, in fact, I would say most are not.  I do not NEED to go to the FSU to find a woman.  I can find one here.. for me the problem is that what women here offer is not sufficient to meet my needs.  I also had some far out idea that I given my fourth generation American culture that comes originally from Ukraine would find some kind of cultural similiarity with people in the FSU.  I am not sure yet if that will prove to be the case.

As far as the honesty question.. well, I am sorry but I have seen a lot of deception going on.  We have all heard about Russian men with money having a mistress or two on the side.. and I know that a lot of Russian women are not shy about having affairs also.  I think someone posted a link to an article that discussed a survey on the topic and the results showed a surprisingly large % of people, men and women, in Kiev thought it was ok to have affairs. There are also the lies of telling people what they want to hear.. now maybe my experiences with women and in business are just wrong, but, this is what I have experienced over and over again.  I see it also when I do business with people from most Asian cultures as well.  As an example of questionable ethics I site the following..

At the job I was just laid off from I shared my office with a Chinese woman.  She got most of her business from a Chinese architect and she paid him a substantial percentage of her commissions to get his referrals.  When she told me this I just about flipped!  The American Insititute of Architects is very strict in their ethical guidelines on this topic.  An architect is not allowed to accept payments of this type unless they are transparent and the principal client is informed prior to the payment taking place.  So, when I mentioned this my co-worker did not believe there was any ethical breach on her part so I had to look it up on the AIA website to prove it to her.  When she saw it, and the California statutes that relate to it, she was shocked and became very scared.  

Now please try to tell me that Russians do not do the same thing as a normal and accepted part of doing business?  Try to tell me that bribery is not a normal and accepted part of the culture.  Show me how people with talent are able to improve their situation in a society that rewards "who you know" over ability.  

Maybe not everyone in this country is crystal honest, but, there are a lot of ethical people who go out of their way to do business and conduct personal affairs with a high level of honesty and integrity.  I know I have a long list of clients I work with who are like this.  Sure there are favors that go back and forth, but, bribes and extortion are not part of the vocabulary.  A few years ago some corrupt Irish contractors exposed me to a payoff they were making to an employee at the building inspection department.  An envelope with 10K was passed under the table to "expedite" their project.  These jerks exposed me to a felony.  If I did not report it it makes me an accesory to their criinal activity.  

What would you do?  anyone can answer the question.. not directed at Zhena..

[Sculpto]

You know what,Jaded,just because I know women better than you do,I know,that many wives and ESPECIALLY fiances say what they men would like to hear.

Thank you for proving our point.

I will tell you-it is NOT normal for RW dont like the beautiful clothes and other little things.

You know how/when an attractive young woman with a nice body looks her best?  Here is a hint.. its not the clothes that matter...

[Zhena]

You are one woman, and (fortunately) do not represent all RW 

Come on,Misha,I see and know the women around me! Your wife is an exception and I even suppose why.

[Vaughn]

Geez,this forum reminds me the bundle of the bees,disturbed by the bear,whos trying to steal their honey-thats how the men here react if some RW comes and starts to write.

THAT's the beauty of this forum, Zhena - if we all agreed, there'd be little to discuss. It's when a disagreement
stoops to name-calling, condescension or ridicule that the weather grows nasty. Don't for a minute believe your
opinion is not welcome here.

Big Lots, Sculpto, LOL. It's where we buy our cleaning products, a few toiletries - and an occasional odd piece
of furniture or small appliance. Don't know if they're national, but they're here, too. And no, I don't shop there
for Valentines Day or 8th of March.

[Zhena]

For you,Sculpto,she looks the best naked-but for herself-she like to be packed in something decent. Sorry,thats what the women are. And it doesnt mean that she is a bad person

[Misha]

Come on,Misha,I see and know the women around me! Your wife is an exception and I even suppose why.

Birds of a feather flock together, so I have no doubt that the women around you are similar to you in outlook.

[Ade]

You know what,Jaded,just because I know women better than you do,I know,that many wives and ESPECIALLY fiances say what they men would like to hear. Even unconciously. Maybe because she really wants to get married,maybe because she wants to immigrate to another country. I will tell you-it is NOT normal for RW dont like the beautiful clothes and other little things. For WW-happens pretty often. But Russian culture is pretty much about the luxuries,not asketism. Some women,who live in the West for many years,may transform some,but still they like the quality which is not cheap. On the womans forum,where are the hundreds od women,I know only 2,who doesnt care what they dressed in. One is more than 50,and another is about 50. The young women like to look good,it is as natural for them as to breath. So,if your woman says,that she doesnt care -she probably knows that she cant get what she wants and tries to convince you and herself than she is totally satisfied. Good for her

For the record my fiancée always looks good; she should do too, she designs and makes all of her own clothes. She doesn't buy any because few come up to her exacting standards. So yes, she likes beautiful things but that's a long way from prioritizing them above everything else. Would you say that you know RW better than her? Maybe you just happen to gravitate towards very materialistic women that are like yourself?

I've also spent many months with my fiancée, and spent some time with her family and her friends; I think I'd have to be blind not to notice signs of the materialism that you talk about and no one, that's right, not one of these people are particularly focused on money or "things".

[Sculpto]

For you,Sculpto,she looks the best naked-but for herself-she like to be packed in something decent. Sorry,thats what the women are. And it doesnt mean that she is a bad person

Zhena you left the door open so I couldn't resist the opportunity.. anyway.. in my case I like nice clothes for myself and if thats what my girl wants its ok with me.. but if she thinks she is going to be wearing Fendi or D and G and she doesn't have the money to pay full retail for that level of stuff.. well.. she better get to work, or learn to sew..

For me there is one exception and that is shoes.. I still dont like to pay full retail, but, I will spend $ on shoes.. I have about 20 pair in my collection and would guess I have invested about 4k in it.  What bums me out is the vasque hiking boots are the most expensive piece and they are pretty much worn out.. that reminds me I need to go to their website and see about getting them resoled.. brb

[Gator]

I joined this thread late and am also appaled.  Some of you are not fair. 

Contrary to all past debates with a RW over the years, I find the RW’s arguments more logical than the men’s.   Have I gone daft?

I do not know if it is because my wife has culled out the bad, yet the AM-RW couples whom I have met all seem like normal people, considering that "normal" embraces a wide band these days.  Our differences are aplenty, yet I do not see gold diggers and liars among the women, nor losers and control freaks among the men.  

That is the point Groovlstk made.  There are plenty of good men and women in the middle.

[Gator]

For me there is one exception and that is shoes.. I still dont like to pay full retail, but, I will spend $ on shoes.. I have about 20 pair in my collection and would guess I have invested about 4k in it. 

That's hitting below the belt.  Shoes and cosmetics should be off-limits when discussing RW.  They admit that it is a weakness.  Don't rub it in.  BTW, 4k for 20 pair is cheap.

Buy good shoes and a good mattress.

[Gator]

Anybody read Erich Fromm's famous book (published 1976) ?

Based on a quick perusal at a book store, it seems to expand upon a very old Mexican three-part saying:

Money belongs not to the one who saves it, but to the one who spends it,

Health belongs not to the one who has it, but to the one who enjoys it,

and Love belongs not to the one who receives it, but to the one who gives it.

Did I just save you $30?

[Sculpto]

Big Lots, Sculpto, LOL. It's where we buy our cleaning products, a few toiletries - and an occasional odd piece
of furniture or small appliance. Don't know if they're national, but they're here, too. And no, I don't shop there
for Valentines Day or 8th of March.

When I shop I shop all over the place.  The Macys mens department downtown is awesome and I hit the clearance racks first and have gotten some great deals.  It doesn't take a lot of effort to to be frugal/ economical.  Anyone who doesn't either has too much money or is just stupid.

BTW.. I bought my suit in Mexico City.. hand tailored.. cost me $75 (probably a gringo price) plus the silk fabric.. imported from Italy.. I don't wear it often but it will more than pass for Armani and other high end designers.. people usually ask where I got it because it is unique.. and even here in SF in the Mission there is a place that will hand tailor a suit for under $200 and the work is excellent.. I have a Tux jacket I purchased there that I use for performance art with all the sparkle fabric.. very cool for a clown..

[groovlstk]

groovlstk,who told you my name is not in the title of our house? :oOr you think only you did that for your wife and now you shouldnt give any more gifts in her life? No,you shouldnt do that,cos you afraid she will leave you-you should do that because YOU LOVE HER and want to see her happy eyes when she opens thr box. If you dont understand that,its useless to say anything more.

Blah, I give up. You completely misunderstood my post, you inferred the exact opposite of what I was trying to convey   

I wonder how much of what you are saying is likewise being misinterpreted by the men here.

[Ade]

Blah, I give up. You completely misunderstood my post, you inferred the exact opposite of what I was trying to convey   

I wonder how much of what you are saying is likewise being misinterpreted by the men here.

Yes, it's quite possible that we're at odds over nothing. Still, any woman that claims that the respect for their man is based on his money is not a woman I can respect; of course, I could have misunderstood that comment of hers.

[Sculpto]

That's hitting below the belt.  Shoes and cosmetics should be off-limits when discussing RW.  They admit that it is a weakness.  Don't rub it in.  BTW, 4k for 20 pair is cheap.

Buy good shoes and a good mattress.

Oh I know it is Gator.  "A" is obsessed with knee high boots and has several pairs.  Her fav pair had developed a crack in a fold and she was despondent about it.  I indulged her on that.. and also on the cosmetics.. her bag did not have very high quality stuff in it and she was having some skin issues.. so.. after my first trip I went cosmetics shopping and brought her the stuff on the second trip.  I went a bit overboard.. but I had so much fun.. you know.. going cosmetics shopping for your GF has its rewards in the moment.. not many men do it and the women in those stores gave me a lot of attention and excellent service.. I got TONS of freebies also.. the sales women got excited about my GF and the good man who was so thoughtful to make such purchases.. when I presented the stuff to "A" she was beside herself.. she knew I had done it but she had no idea I had gone so far overboard.. definitely worth the effort..

[Sculpto]

We haven't misunderstood anything guys.  Her point is very clear. 

Think about Tony Montana.. Scarface.. thats the mentality.. and that is why I mentioned in a previous post about people in the US witht he same mentality tending towards being ghetto...

[Sculpto]

Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

[Aloe]

that's a good tip about tailors in a cheaper place, i have similar experience with a thailand tailor, very happy with the quality and price.

[Aloe]

Oh I know it is Gator.  "A" is obsessed with knee high boots and has several pairs.  Her fav pair had developed a crack in a fold and she was despondent about it.  I indulged her on that.. and also on the cosmetics.. her bag did not have very high quality stuff in it and she was having some skin issues.. so.. after my first trip I went cosmetics shopping and brought her the stuff on the second trip.  I went a bit overboard.. but I had so much fun.. you know.. going cosmetics shopping for your GF has its rewards in the moment.. not many men do it and the women in those stores gave me a lot of attention and excellent service.. I got TONS of freebies also.. the sales women got excited about my GF and the good man who was so thoughtful to make such purchases.. when I presented the stuff to "A" she was beside herself.. she knew I had done it but she had no idea I had gone so far overboard.. definitely worth the effort..

that's very nice, but you need to know exactly her preferences in color, her skin tone, and etc, so that might be a challenge for most men better go shopping with her.

[Sculpto]

that's very nice, but you need to know exactly her preferences in color, her skin tone, and etc, so that might be a challenge for most men better go shopping with her.

I know, thats what they told me so I limited to cleansers and toners and masks and eye serums and things of that sort.. plus some really good mascara because what she had was really cheap and clumpy.. she LOVES what I got her.. when she, if ever, arrives here I will take her to get what she wants.. I already laid the groundwork by making friends with the sales woman who was so nice to me at the cosmetics counter..