Realities of FSUW

[Wienerin]

A few instances that come from my experience.  Make of them what you will.

1)  I was walking along the sidewalk one winter evening in Dnipropetrovsk, ... I gave her the note without a word and walked on, amazed at what some FSU women will do for so little money.

2) My stepson not long ago had a live-in relationship with a 18 year old Russian girl.  She had come from Khabarosvk a few years earlier ...She said, "He better be rich, I told him I will not marry him unless he is rich!"   ... We were relieved when she left the relationship.

3) My wife met a sweet Ukrainian lady at ESL class.  ... On those occasions the bride would go out, dressed to kill and often return in early morning hours, and was seen stepping from a Mercedes with an older man as her escort.

4)  I have often overheard conversations between ladies, discussing how a some girl "married lucky".  It is an expression that is a normal part of their culture.

It is undeniable by anyone with comparative experience that there exists in the FSUW psyche a powerful desire for material wealth and a covetous nature toward those who have it.  An yes, they will, and often do, enter loveless marriages. 

Can't we just accept this one very self-evident reality and move along?  FSUW have many positive, counter-balancing virtures.

It's a reality for you - because you wish to make it so. We have 1) - a doubtful case - you didn't even for a moment entertain the thought that a) the second banknote MAY have been not yours but the other man's, b) the woman could have been honestly mistaken ... in any case this is not a proof of anything except the fact that this sole woman did this or that

2) An 18 year old who came as a schoolgirl to the US - why are you so sure that this "marry rich" idea isn't of the US extraction? Where did the show "Marry a Millionaire" appear? Where did the movie "Pretty Woman"? (can you explain why the characteristic of mama's husband as Jewish-American was necessary for the narrative?)

3) a slutty young bride... what gave you an idea, that such behavior pertains only to Russian/Ukrainian women or is prevalent in Russia/Ukraine? Are there no sluts in the US? Come on! Surely you cannot believe that

4) you didn't have to overhear the conversation - if you've read classics - even American ones, and even more ir less modern (like The Best of Everything by Rona Jaffe), you'd have met the exact expression from which this Russian one originated - to make a good catch, usually as derived from French - le bon parti, i.е. сделать хорошую партию, онa удачно вышла замуж... This usually among the mamas as regarding the daughters. The good catch DOES NOT mean the guy is wealthy - it means that they are compatible, that he is upwardly mobile, on the brink of a promising career or already established, etc. Which every mother wants for her daughter... a good man who will take good care of her.

Why did you need to go out of your way to insult millions of Russian and Ukrainian women on such scant evidence - I have not a clue. Maybe something in your water

[Zhena]

Zhena.. dear.. god you are really clueless..

My GF knows exactly how much I make and how much I spend... its all on paper for her to review.. and she is realistic about what that means..

I know she needs stability, but, there are lots of different ways to achieve it.  She, like I, would like to live in more than one place.  Part of accomplishing that is already set up and i have been just waiting for the right girl to take the next step. 

Just because my lifestyle won't work for you doesn't mean it will not work for someone else.  Not everyone wants to live in a house in the suburbs driving to the mall to get a stick of butter. 

I have made darn sure I didn't hide ANY reality from my GF because I do not want her to come here and discover something different than what she expected.  If anything i have painted a picture that is less comfortable than things really are.

But hey, I really thank you for showing the ugly side of FSUW.  It really is appreciated. 

Sulpto,dear-just cos my lifestyle wont work for you,its very closeminded to call it ugly,ok?
It wont work with yor GF not nly cos of the money. I missed the story where did you meet her-I just saw,she wasnt at any agency and didnt think to go in another contry. Where then? With no english from her side?..

[Zhena]

Oh I missed this one.. you know Zhena.. if I had found this forum before I got my brain warpped around this whole idea and I saw the garbage you have been writing I NEVER would have pursued this.  Each time I try and give you the benefit of the doubt you come back with something like this..  I could say alot more but I wont bother..

Hahaha,Sculpto tries to give me a benefit. Who do you think  you are?..
Dont bother with the answer though. I dont hope to hear anything smart,really.

[Mir]

About the shining example of drinking alone with her own money... well, I'm speechless again - and for another reason as well: I'd run like hell from a 22 y.o. (or any other age BTW), who has to have some alcohol every day.

Don't worry, he will be smoking his weed while she is having her drink

[Doll]

Did you have a spreadsheet tallying up their pluses and minuses?  

What do you think?

[Doll]

you know what bugs me about the post.. WM get accused of going on wife shopping trips in the FSU, and then we hear a story like that.. I bet she told each one of those guys they were the "one" until she made her final decision.. sigh..

Chill down , guys! I was just teasing you! 

[Doll]

you know what bugs me about the post.. WM get accused of going on wife shopping trips in the FSU, and then we hear a story like that.. I bet she told each one of those guys they were the "one" until she made her final decision.. sigh..

Too bad  - yes, dating is a shopping. The problem is AM are shopping for some desperate  women and they are shopping for well-to-do husbands. Well, life is stuffed with contradictions

[remiel6]

So if I am shopping then is going the Ukraine or Russia shopping at the high end store on rodeo drive or is it the discount strip malls in the burbs  It would be nice to know because I have to prepare.  I don't want walk into walmart with an armani suit I might look stupid, not that the fear of looking stupid has ever bothered me one iota. I would say judging from the shoes I see these women walking around in they at least think I am shopping on rodeo drive, maybe I am and I lost my road map somewhere  Oh well... I've stayed silent on this thread for many pages, watched people throw insults back and forth and I will say what I said before long long ago. Always be leery of "all FSUW are this or all AW are that." I have met golddiggers, I have met non gold diggers everywhere I go. I did not start this process looking for arm candy or a quick f*** adventure to eastern Europe. I was looking for a girl who might be silly enough to fall in love with me. I am just personally disgusted by the idea that a person would draw up a chart of traits a spouse needs to have and fill in the blanks with names to see if they fit like Lego toys.  either you love, or you do not love....  either they are worth leaving everything you know or they are not  Certainly if you fear their ability to support you or you think they might be too lazy to work for a living then I would tell you to back to question 2. If a man does not buy  you flowers on valentines day, or a nice day at the spa once in a while, go back to question 2, if you mad because he won't buy you a Ferrari, look in the mirror... it doesn't matter who you marry the problem is in the mirror not the man.

[groovlstk]

But hey, I really thank you for showing the ugly side of FSUW.  It really is appreciated. 

I hate to say this, but what I'm reading here is probably the norm for most RW/AM relationships that I've seen.

Most single guys will not like this news, and a good portion of such guys will find themselves locked into relationships wherein this is the reality, yet they will bend over backwards trying to prove otherwise or rationalize it as "all RW are this way." From the guy who's RW girlfriend behaves frugally in her native city (she insists on taking you to supermarkets to shop for food rather than fancy restaurants when you visit, so she must have your best financial interests at heart, right? Wrong - you won't really know this until she's living w/you in her new home for an extended period) to the guy who's GF refuses his offer of a monthly stipend or $ for English lessons... all are extrapolating based on the flimsiest of evidence and not much else.

If you want something different be prepared to put in the time and effort (a la Misha), be prepared to be disappointed again and again (a la Doc, Simoni, and myself), and never waver from the most important qualities that you are looking for in a partner (a la Daveman).

And if and when you do find someone be prepared to share everything in your life, whether it's your heart, your beer, or your bank account.

[Doll]

remiel6, I didn't get two things- what is question 2 and what is looking in the mirror about?

[GoodOlBoy]

And if and when you do find someone be prepared to share everything in your life, whether it's your heart, your beer, or your bank account.

(a la GoodOlBoy). 


GOB


PS.....Also you guns!

[remiel6]

question #1 was do you love him?
question #2 was do you love him enough to leave everything you know?
looking in the mirror refers to if you are unhappy that a man will not buy you a Ferrari or anything extravagant like that then you have to ask the question about whether the problem is really with the man or if the problem is with the woman asking. All relationships are 2 way streets and require communication. You have to communicate your thoughts, hopes, desires, ambitions, expectations. If you are not getting what you wanted the problem may not be your mate, it may be what you want is not deliverable by the one you chose, or it may just be that it is not deliverable by anyone. Some people set unrealistic expectation of things to create disappointment before they even start. I think deep down they don't feel they deserve to be happy or something, so they create an expectation that can not be fulfilled so that they have reason to justify an underlying sense of self. Its a self fullfilled prophesy.

[Doll]

remiel6, Thanks!
Then I offer one more question for you- is it possible TO LOVE or not before you come to the man? Considering international dating?

[remiel6]

That is a very good question. I think given the parameters of international dating and the time constraints I think that many times perhaps people are not "in love" when they start and maybe really "want to be" in love. Certainly love does not require a certain time investment to be real, but the time investment in 99% of the situations one will encounter I think is important. perhaps the question you ask is the reason for many problems. I have never been married and only dated one FSUW so my experience here is extremely limited, there are others certainly with more. IF a couple is really "wanting to be in love" when they get married and not "in love" then I think money matters a lot more. Love can overcome a lot of obstacles, but a growing love that may not be real, I think that might be easily overcome by budget problems. When a person is not really in love then when things start going wrong or they feel lonely maybe they start looking for things that are not normal. "I don't have the same car as others" "Her house is bigger then mine" "My husband did not buy me the same size ring that she got" Maybe they start thinking about these things and the mind starts wondering. I think a healthy couple might ask "When does my spouse get home from work" "What can we do that's special tonight"

[Gator]

Chill down , guys! I was just teasing you! 

The problem is that we can not tell when you are teasing and when you are revealing the truth. 

Your description of comparing your three suitors did seem believable, although not very romantic based on your terse words.  At what stage did you compare the three men? 

1.  During correspondence, and then you invited one to meet you?   

2.  Or after a first meeting with each?

3.  Or after a couple of extended meetings with each?

4.  Or after whispering sweet words in their ears expressing to each that he is your "one"  (Sculpto's comment)?

I have no problem with No. 1 and 2 .  Even No. 3 is acceptable because I have done the same, and unless the two of you are committed to each other, the field is still open.  A No. 3 is also not in a rush to marry, which I found attractive.

No. 4, however, is the RW equivalent of a "sex tourist"?

[Doll]

At what stage did you compare the three men? 

After we met and before there had to be something decided.
Not all of them at the same time- don't take me wrong! One after another, my present husband being the last one. And even though I came here without any expectations.

[Doll]

Gator, I am not in a mood to answer all these investigation questions just because this is a 7+years marriage and nothing else counts.
Didn't get this thing about sex tourist.
Bottom line- I was choosing carefully and married the best one.

[Doll]

I'll tell you more, Gator (to tease you)- I was in the USA 9 years ago and knew what size income was or was not acceptable. Also I understood all this income vs expenses thing. If the guy gets quite decent money but pays his parents' mortgage and their new car then hell no, there is no way you can marry him. Or  another one says he spends " a lot " on grocery and this "a lot" is 110 a month for 2 people, he also says this amount is a waste of money? Hell nooooooooooooooo, you can't marry him!
Or what?

[Sculpto]

(stunned) a controller if ever I saw one... And of the worst sort - tedious one, the one who makes lists to the tiniest detail and insists that they be signed and sworn - or else... I'd run like the devil was after me from a man, who weighted mutual responsibilities in the terms that if I shine our shoes (as if a sane woman will let a man touch her designer footwear or as if HIS shoes is anybody's business but his own), you'll iron my shirts (what happened to Chinese laundries?)...

Don't you think it is a little extreme to make sucha comment?  If anyone is a controller in the relationship it would be "A" and even at that her demands are within reason.  She wants to be sure that I am who I said I am and I want to be sure she is who she says she is.  So, whats the problem?  She has high expectations about making a cozy house.. I tend to live a very faast lifestyle and do not currently spend much time at home.. that is what started the whole discussion of who should be responsible for what.  It was actually fun to make the list and talk about stuff.  So, I really don't see where the problem is.  Expectations are clear.

A man who lets a girl who has no idea of everyday finance in the US agree to another list of how it shall be - who buys what, etc. With what, I'm sorry to ask, she should buy anything when she comes and for some months at least until she gets her work permit, beefs up her English and finds even modestly paying job (competing with all those Mexican or whatever illegals working for next to nothing with no benefits, whom Sculpto loves so much) in today's  economy?

LOL.. again.. extreme remarks.. I buy everything except her alcohol.  She needs to find a way over the first couple of years to finance her return trips to Tomsk.  So again, whats the problem with that?  She is a smart girl so why do you think she isn't going to be able to find some way to make money, either via a normal job or with my help doing something entreprenurial.  She would prefer to be self employed and she has at her disposal someone who is adept at creating things.  She will do fine.  Beefing up English will be easy.. SF provides free English classes for new immigrants and I will help her with it every day.  Besides, she is already working on it on her own and amazes me with her progress.  You are finding fault where there is none.

About the shining example of drinking alone with her own money... well, I'm speechless again - and for another reason as well: I'd run like hell from a 22 y.o. (or any other age BTW), who has to have some alcohol every day... and from a woman one should run double quick. Women - and this is a medical fact and not an old wives' tale - become alcoholics much quicker and on smaller amounts of imbibed alcohol than men, they also are much harder to treat and have a much hugher chance of irreversible damage to nervous system.

Why do you think she will be drinking alone?  I soke a little bit of herb almost every day.  She doesn't like herb.  I don't like to be drunk but I do like a little red wine or liquer.. Its not like I am going to lock her in the apartment and she will be getting drunk alone.  On the contrary she likes to have her beer in the evening to relax.  I do not see anything wrong with that.  It is a very very long way from being an out of control alcoholic.  Again, extreme comments.

I am not sure if you are playing devils advocate or just being negative but its getting annoying.

[Doll]

Certainly love does not require a certain time investment to be real

It does on our cases- if she still loves you after 2-3 years of living in another (for her) country with a man she depends on- then it is love. Just read this forum and RW one- things happen very often. Too many broken hearts

[Sculpto]

Sculpto,

The truth here is that your GF really has NO IDEA about the realities of life/finances in the US and what all these things she agrees to would entail to her when she is here. She is too young, too inexperienced, and from what you've written, she has very little/very twisted knowledge about the US on the whole, and about her own prospects here.

Once the reality hits you both, it will be a very different story.

No offense, but every time I read your writings, I have to remind myself you are actually over 40... Your posts just sound like some 16-year-old wrote them.

She knows what I have told her and what she has researched on her own.  You are right that she doesn't really understand the reality and she can't until she gets here.  But, I have planned for and built into my situation a comfortable enough landing pad so that she will have the time to adjust without feeling stress.  You seem to forget that she isn't the first foriegn girlfriend I have had.  You think French women are any easier than Russians?  You would be sorely mistaken if you do.  If anything they are more demanding and less cooperative than most Russians I have met.  France is after all basically a welfare state.  I didn't understand that when I brought hte Frenchie over and when I finally understood that she had been living on the "dole" and was never going to be able to adapt to life here becuase she was completely unmotivated and lacked talent the relationship soured and eventually ceased to exist.

I have chosen a girl who is talented and motivated.  Someone who is respected by her peers for her talent and intelligence.  I am sure it isn't going to be easy for her, but, I have gone way beyond what I did the last time to make sure she will land on her feet when she gets here.  I am not going to take any chances that my efforts are not sufficient for her to achieve success.  The rest is up to her and i can not control that.

[kievstar]

Alcoholism is a need on a daily basis and not the amount you drink.  My aunt and uncle had to have 1-2 drinks a day for many years after work (never 3 drinks).  No one thought much of it as we thought Alcoholics are people who drink a lot.  Guess what.  We were all wrong and auntie had to go away to dry out.  Busted lose and tried to break into her house and ended up getting decked by her son of 16 years.  My parents housed their son while some of the other relatives (not his parents) wanted him put in jail. Uncle got better by being away from auntie for awhile.  Both are happy now and do not drink daily.  Only socially.

My point is 1 drink a day everyday and that is a problem. 

[Shadow]

Alcoholism is a need on a daily basis and not the amount you drink.  My aunt and uncle had to have 1-2 drinks a day for many years after work (never 3 drinks).  No one thought much of it as we thought Alcoholics are people who drink a lot.  Guess what.  We were all wrong and auntie had to go away to dry out.  Busted lose and tried to break into her house and ended up getting decked by her son of 16 years.  My parents housed their son while some of the other relatives (not his parents) wanted him put in jail. Uncle got better by being away from auntie for awhile.  Both are happy now and do not drink daily.  Only socially.

My point is 1 drink a day everyday and that is a problem. 

Its only a problem if you can not go without the drink. My father used to drink a glass of Whisky or Cognac every evening before sleeping. After going with that habit for over a year, he decided to break it to see if he could still be without. No problem for him.

[Sculpto]

http://nutrition.about.com/od/hydrationwater/a/beer_Nutrition.htm

[remiel6]

If she doesn't love you after 2-3 years, i could question whether she loved you or "wanted to love you" a vast difference in the end but hard to figure out in the beginning.