Realities of FSUW

[Ronnie]

Yes Ecocks, it seems to always result in name calling where Sculpto is involved.  His problem is that he seems to be running out of names.  He's used up racist, reactionary and all the other top-tier pejoratives.  Gone to the second tier now it seems.

[Sculpto]

ok, to try and get this thread back on track..

the most interesting part of this debate has centered on the idea that some if not many FSUWs are percieved to be motivated by materialism when choosing a mate.

There have been points and counterpoints.

We have seen the lady who originally posted the comments confess to being less materialistic than her first postings indicated, yet, still fall back to that position when challenged.

We have several men who refute this argument as their own experiences prove otherwise.

So, clearly there is a divide in perception and possibly reality.  

What would be usefull at this point instead of anyone trying to prove their arguments would be to hear from the ladies some advice on how men can learn to better identify the real intent of a lady.  Since Zhena and Doll have proven that ladies are often likely to tell us men what we want to hear how can we men better interpret the mysteries our love interests are creating for us.

Thanks..

[Sculpto]

Yes Ecocks, it seems to always result in name calling where Sculpto is involved.  His problem is that he seems to be running out of names.  He's used up racist, reactionary and all the other top-tier pejoratives.  Gone to the second tier now it seems.

On the contrary Troll.  This thread progressed along quite nicely yesterday without your input and now here we are with you making all kinds of stupid comments that are designed not to further the debate but instead to inflame passionate argument. 

I bit my tongue on a lot of the garbage you posted today, but, you did it yourself in your quoted post.  Look in the mirror Ronnie, you know who and what you are and you don't need me or anyone else to point it out.

So, as I seem to remember you had me on ignore.  I knew it was a lie, but, now, I choose to put you on ignore because my time is way to precious to waste it on you.  BYEBYE Troll.

[Wienerin]

Do you take some perverse pleasure in offending me?  Why would you think my family would help me?  For the record...

My parents are divorced.  After my Mom was so browbeaten by my jacka** of a Father and left her with nothing I completely disconnected from my Father.  He was more than capable of paying for my education but chose not to.  I worked full time for the five years it took me to graduate from art school.  The man is greedy and selfish and extremely lonely with his money and cars and big house with all the amenities.  In the last ten years I have seen him once, when his lesbian wife (not a joke) called me to tell me he had been diagnosed with Alzheimers.  I went to visit and lucky me I got screamed at the same as he did before he was sick.  Sure I could go there and beg a job, but, and this is no exageration, I would live under the damn freeway before I would do that.  

My Mom has nothing.. I help her now.

So, don't listen to me, I don't know anything.

Excuse me? I didn't invent anything, - just based my post on what you said youself - that you could this, that and the other if you only wished. Try to be consistent in what you say, and do not be offended, when somebody takes you at your own word.

BTW, I've worked through all my diplomas, - there and here, since I had to live somehow and raise two kids ... nothing special, believe me. Hard but what is easy?

[Sculpto]

No problem Wienerin.. I have just gotte a little used to you attacking me.. but I am also learning that some of the bluntness that I interpret as an attack from FSUWs is not intended as such. 

So, that does identify another topic worth discussing here...

Its pretty common out here on the left coast for people to go out of their way to find ways of saying things that might be difficult for someone to hear in a way that sucha person will actually listen to.  In fact I think it is one of the basic premises of most Dale Carnegie courses.. lol.. but, it seems that this little subtlety of US culture is somewhat useless when dealing with FSUW who are convincing when they "say what the man wants to hear" and just as convincing when saying things that are less pleasant.

So, how the heck are we supposed to know which is what and when is one or the other?

[Doll]

No problem Wienerin.. I have just gotten a little used to you attacking me..

it's OK, Sculpto, it is her hobby 

[Sculpto]

it's OK, Sculpto, it is her hobby 

HAHA Doll.. I think she has a crush on me.. but I can't tell for sure cuz Russian ladies just tell us what we want to hear..

[Wienerin]

Forgive me if I wasn't clear, but I wasn't suggesting that she was indifferent to either man, rather that she is into both men equally.

Equally indifferent. Or none of them disgusts her to the extent that she cannot contemplate sleeping with either. Then money becomes uppermost in the calculation.

And you may explain (as in distort and rationalize) whatever you wish - the more I read some of Zhena's or Doll's posts, the more it remains the same - the main reason for choosing their present husbands was monetary. And Doll at least had a valid reason for seeking a well-to-do guy (however it turned out, - things weren't that rosy as she tries to present now) - her child with her, another one and other relatives in the home country and need support. Zhena doesn't have even this as a justification.

I guess it probably wouldn't help to say that if this did happen, maybe the "chemistry" guy was unable to provide for her and her kids? Naw, I didn't think so

Can you get into your head, that the majority of Russian women - even some of those who get a foreigner as a husband, - want a MAN, and not for what he can "provide"? Jf course, it's nice to know that if she cannot work for any reason, he'll be there for her needs - but that goes without saying in my book. If (when, that is) my man cannot work for any valid reason, I will (and did) "provide". We are partners, we are a team, we are in this enterprise - building our home, our life together.

I wasn't in the market for my charm and ,long legs which would have been a commodity for suitable renumeration So is the majority of women, choosing a partner in life. We are looking for someone to love, to be a companion, to grow old together in content with each other, not for someone "to provide" - this is not Victorian era, when a woman had to choose a good provider, since she couldn't work and thus stand alone.  

[Daveman]

Equally indifferent. Or none of them disgusts her to the extent that she cannot contemplate sleeping with either. Then money becomes uppermost in the calculation.

And you may explain (as in distort and rationalize) whatever you wish - the more I read some of Zhena's or Doll's posts, the more it remains the same - the main reason for choosing their present husbands was monetary. And Doll at least had a valid reason for seeking a well-to-do guy (however it turned out, - things weren't that rosy as she tries to present now) - her child with her, another one and other relatives in the home country and need support. Zhena doesn't have even this as a justification.

Can you get into your head, that the majority of Russian women - even some of those who get a foreigner as a husband, - want a MAN, and not for what he can "provide"? Jf course, it's nice to know that if she cannot work for any reason, he'll be there for her needs - but that goes without saying in my book. If (when, that is) my man cannot work for any valid reason, I will (and did) "provide". We are partners, we are a team, we are in this enterprise - building our home, our life together.

I wasn't in the market for my charm and ,long legs which would have been a commodity for suitable renumeration So is the majority of women, choosing a partner in life. We are looking for someone to love, to be a companion, to grow old together in content with each other, not for someone "to provide" - this is not Victorian era, when a woman had to choose a good provider, since she couldn't work and thus stand alone.  

Amen.  And I will not marry until I find a woman exactly like this -- who also fits with me in other areas. 

If a guy is materialistic, then by all means, he *SHOULD* be partnered with a materialistic woman, but even then, he should be looking for one who is willing to put in the effort to till the soil of success, even if she doesn't need to (in a more traditional family environment).   Partnership is the key word.

[Doll]

I read Doll's reasons with great attention. My reasons are monetary and nothing else.
Now, dear Wienerin, tell the guys your reasons, will you?

[Doll]

  the main reason for choosing their present husbands was monetary. And Doll at least had a valid reason for seeking a well-to-do guy (however it turned out, - things weren't that rosy as she tries to present now) - her child with her, another one and other relatives in the home country and need support. 

 

Well, sweetie, no one marriage goes with no bumps- you wouldn't argue with this.
Next- I didn't present my marriage as rosy something. Also the family overseas doesn't need my support (unlike yours BTW))- my older does quite good.
I am staying with my husband because he is a good husband and a nice man.
Now when I have a total access to all his money and property I am free to go but guess what- I am not going.I've already said why.

[Doll]

I forgot one more "nasty" detail  - there were 3 men I was choosing from-one with (yes!) small salary, the other was ok but too old (17 years older), so the third was  the winner  - very independent, a career guy,very practical and just 6 years older.
It worked.

[goforit]

Been there, done that, it didn't work.  Any other suggestions?

Well you are either going to be living there or living in your own country, so there are no other options as far as that goes. No method is foolproof, not here, not there, not anywhere, and it sounds like you had many red flags by your own admission that you ignored. So you can go there and live and meet a woman that way, but still need to be careful in this process.

And isn't this really true of any marriage? Just because we meet/marry someone of the same culture doesn't mean we don't have to be careful. Look at the divorce rates of Americans marrying Americans - very high. Look at the divorce rate of Russians marrying Russians- very high. So clearly you have two groups of people who within their own cultures have a difficult time making marriages work. I would expect when two dysfunctional marital cultures hook up, that at the end of the day, when all is stripped away, the same relational pressures that they are unable to survive in their own culture, come to bear on their cross cultural relationships as well.

So we best be careful, no matter what.

[Sculpto]

Look at the divorce rates of Americans marrying Americans - very high. Look at the divorce rate of Russians marrying Russians- very high.

Excellent points.. is it worth it to examine why marriages fail in the two cultures?

I think marriages in America fail because the women change their priorities.. they want careers and to earn their own money etc.. plus there is the fidelity issue.. however, if I am not mistaken isn't it true that the divorce rate has been dropping in the last decade or two?

From what I have heard in the FSU the high rate of divorce can be attributed to getting married too young and men not taking enough familial responsibility plus infidelity...

correct me if I am wrong..

[kievstar]

Last time I was in Ukraine the local paper had by year the number of divorces and marriages.  The number of divorces was extremely high and marriages would go up and down dramatically by year but the number of divorces would stay the same roughly each year.  Many years the divorces were 50%-60% of the marriages.  They also had a statistic that very few people would marry a second time and only 1% would ever consider marrying a 3rd time.  Only people divorced one- two times could answer that question. I am going off memory as no longer have the articles but it was shocking.  They did mention many marriages in Ukraine are not recorded so the number of marriages is much higher.

[Blues Fairy]

I forgot one more "nasty" detail  - there were 3 men I was choosing from-one with (yes!) small salary, the other was ok but too old (17 years older), so the third was  the winner  - very independent, a career guy,very practical and just 6 years older.
It worked.

Did you have a spreadsheet tallying up their pluses and minuses?  

[Mishenka]

probably did

[Sculpto]

you know what bugs me about the post.. WM get accused of going on wife shopping trips in the FSU, and then we hear a story like that.. I bet she told each one of those guys they were the "one" until she made her final decision.. sigh..

[Zhena]

What a fun topic
Sculpto looking  for the recipe to avoid such the evil bithches who will (oh horror)ask him one day,how much he actually makes. I ll tell you what Sculpto-there is none,if you dont like  that,maybe you should turn your attention to the men :rolleyes2:I dont know,maybe you will find a lady-idiot,who will come here,will make a career and will feed you. Just because you re so amazing and she doesnt see anything-blind cos in crazy love She should be an exceptional idiot,Sculpto,seriously. From what you told about your present GF-I am sorry,but I predict with 98% that it will not work. You re very confused,you making the planes,but the reality will be differet. If you just would accept that the women need a stability and somebody they can rely on-you wouldnt have the problems. As soon as you rigid,the life will beat you.
With Wineeri I even wont argue,as soon as I understoood who is it,I cant take her seriously. But I lke you from other forum,I really do And I dont need your judgement at all. Try to judge the girls on russian fiancee,I didnt notice you so enthusiastic there at this point

[Mishenka]

Sculpto, probably so. Maybe thats why after 18 months with Galina, Im still the one,, and she still isnt living here yet.... still making the decision??? Who knows? Maybe I should just file the papers, fly over for her interview and board the plane ??
Mishenka

[Zhena]

you know what bugs me about the post.. WM get accused of going on wife shopping trips in the FSU, and then we hear a story like that.. I bet she told each one of those guys they were the "one" until she made her final decision.. sigh..

Yp,sure she told-on the very first date But you,I bet,would believe if some woman would told that to you

[Sculpto]

What a fun topic
Sculpto looking  for the recipe to avoid such the evil bithches who will (oh horror)ask him one day,how much he actually makes. I ll tell you what Sculpto-there is none,if you dont like  that,maybe you should turn your attention to the men :rolleyes2:I dont know,maybe you will find a lady-idiot,who will come here,will make a career and will feed you. Just because you re so amazing and she doesnt see anything-blind cos in crazy love She should be an exceptional idiot,Sculpto,seriously. From what you told about your present GF-I am sorry,but I predict with 98% that it will not work. You re very confused,you making the planes,but the reality will be differet. If you just would accept that the women need a stability and somebody they can rely on-you wouldnt have the problems. As soon as you rigid,the life will beat you.

Zhena.. dear.. god you are really clueless..

My GF knows exactly how much I make and how much I spend... its all on paper for her to review.. and she is realistic about what that means..

I know she needs stability, but, there are lots of different ways to achieve it.  She, like I, would like to live in more than one place.  Part of accomplishing that is already set up and i have been just waiting for the right girl to take the next step. 

Just because my lifestyle won't work for you doesn't mean it will not work for someone else.  Not everyone wants to live in a house in the suburbs driving to the mall to get a stick of butter. 

I have made darn sure I didn't hide ANY reality from my GF because I do not want her to come here and discover something different than what she expected.  If anything i have painted a picture that is less comfortable than things really are.

But hey, I really thank you for showing the ugly side of FSUW.  It really is appreciated. 

[Sculpto]

Yp,sure she told-on the very first date But you,I bet,would believe if some woman would told that to you

Oh I missed this one.. you know Zhena.. if I had found this forum before I got my brain warpped around this whole idea and I saw the garbage you have been writing I NEVER would have pursued this.  Each time I try and give you the benefit of the doubt you come back with something like this..  I could say alot more but I wont bother..

[Wienerin]

Sculpto,
If your GF comes to the US and you put the above described financial plan into practice, you are in for one rude awakening!

Do not stop posting, please, it will be one interesting story

(stunned) a controller if ever I saw one... And of the worst sort - tedious one, the one who makes lists to the tiniest detail and insists that they be signed and sworn - or else... I'd run like the devil was after me from a man, who weighted mutual responsibilities in the terms that if I shine our shoes (as if a sane woman will let a man touch her designer footwear or as if HIS shoes is anybody's business but his own), you'll iron my shirts (what happened to Chinese laundries?)...

A man who lets a girl who has no idea of everyday finance in the US agree to another list of how it shall be - who buys what, etc. With what, I'm sorry to ask, she should buy anything when she comes and for some months at least until she gets her work permit, beefs up her English and finds even modestly paying job (competing with all those Mexican or whatever illegals working for next to nothing with no benefits, whom Sculpto loves so much) in today's  economy?

About the shining example of drinking alone with her own money... well, I'm speechless again - and for another reason as well: I'd run like hell from a 22 y.o. (or any other age BTW), who has to have some alcohol every day... and from a woman one should run double quick. Women - and this is a medical fact and not an old wives' tale - become alcoholics much quicker and on smaller amounts of imbibed alcohol than men, they also are much harder to treat and have a much hugher chance of irreversible damage to nervous system.

As to money - never fear, habitual drinker in need of a shot will find the means.

[pitbull]

Zhena.. dear.. god you are really clueless..

My GF knows exactly how much I make and how much I spend... its all on paper for her to review.. and she is realistic about what that means..

I know she needs stability, but, there are lots of different ways to achieve it.  She, like I, would like to live in more than one place.  Part of accomplishing that is already set up and i have been just waiting for the right girl to take the next step. 

Sculpto,

The truth here is that your GF really has NO IDEA about the realities of life/finances in the US and what all these things she agrees to would entail to her when she is here. She is too young, too inexperienced, and from what you've written, she has very little/very twisted knowledge about the US on the whole, and about her own prospects here.

Once the reality hits you both, it will be a very different story.

No offense, but every time I read your writings, I have to remind myself you are actually over 40... Your posts just sound like some 16-year-old wrote them.