Kharkiv (Jan - Feb 09) - My experience so far

[I/O]

Mila was being paid to provide a service which she doesn't seem to have performed very well.

Does anyone know exactly what "paid" services were agreed on? Kinda simple isn't it, you know that, you can make a judgement, you don't, you cant.

Mila's response would have been sufficient in saying "Hey boys as you and I know, there is a lot others don't know" if that is in fact correct. Mila didn't fire a shot across anyone's bow, she went for the total ambush.

The self hanging that was going on with the two plantiffs suggested and continues to suggest to me Mila's smart money was and is to remain silent. If these guys have substance, they will crucify her and if they haven't, ultimately nobody will listen to them anyway.

I/O

[Taz]

   Taz I respect your opinion, but Mila is not in charge of the next IMF loan to Ukraine, nor is she an attorney. She is not some Harvard MBA in charge of a million dollar company. She doesnt have a six figure salary, she doesnt even have a five figure salary. She is a young woman from Ukraine working for ten dollars an hour and I believe trying to do her best to help men. Ten dollars an hour to try to help some very helpless men meet a good woman. Does anyone get any of this?
  She is not getting rich. She has problably made mistakes and I would wager she would admit it if given the proper chance.

I don't want to play devil's advocate at all here. I would like to ask you one thing to all of you in general. How valuable is YOUR private information to you?

As for her salary, she is relatively well compensated by local standards. Kharkov isn't that expensive of a city to live in. Clients often pick up the tab while you are out. $10/hr goes a long way there and is probably comparable to someone making $40-50/hr in the US or you could consider the straight exchange rate of about 7.5:1. I have good friends who are well educated making $200-$300 a month and Mila can do that in 30 hours of translating. Even one "padded" client onto a bill is a significant increase in her income.

By NOT pre-qualifying effectively she could boost her translation fees substantially each month. One here, one there and soon you have an extra $50-$80 a month. That is substantial when the average monthly salary is about $200 and that could be just her "bonus" money. I am not cynical but the risk of greed is high when the rewards are decent of little effort. I am not saying she is guilty of this but I have seen quite a few terps do this to other people.

Ethics/morals should have little to do with cost/income and should be closer to absolutes not "relative truths". This is about price. It is about being professional. If you are going to call yourself a professional translator, then act like one. If she made a mistake, own up to it an move on. That is what adults/professionals do. To err is human. To forgive diving. To never admit to it...takes a RW. 

Next time Mila would be wise to engage brain before putting her keyboard/mouth into gear. It is obvious to me that CC took the time to thoroughly write out his point. I don't doubt that he has some powder left in the keg.

I don't think Mila is badly intentioned in this. Nor do I wish to slaughter anyone's sacred cow. I do hope that all parties come to an amicable resolution and move on. In the meantime I'll get out my popcorn and soda and watch the conflagration that will likely ensue. I hope it won't but I'll be prepared anyway. I always carry a Nomex suit with me and a good extinguisher in case things really get out of hand. The silence from Mila is deafening though. I hope she more carefully thinks through her next response. Mea culpa (with a mitigating factor) would be a good choice of action at this point if it warranted. Of course pride goeth before the fall. Then again I had to learn to eat crow a time or two growing up. I found it was much tastier with a little BBQ sauce thrown on it... 

[Boethius]

Deleted

[CCowboy]

I've been silently readiing the responses and at the same time, preparing to answer.  I have not retreated with my tail between my legs as other's suggest.  However, at this time I am not able to respond other than a short post.   Mila wants the gloves off so I will be responding in deatail within the next day or so.  I will say that I have been to Kharkov 6 times and I have other contacts.  I already know that Mila has been soliciting past clients to make positive comments about her.  I don't know Mila's client base so of the responders here, only you know if Mila contacted you to support her.  I will be posting a detailed accounting of my entire dealings with Mila, the good, the bad, and the ugly, from day 1 to day 28.  Since the gloves are off, nothing will be off-limits.  So, Mila, if you think you have some trash on me you want to post, go ahead.  I've kept all of the e-mails we sent to each other, from before my arrivial to after returning home.  One thing I will not do is name anyone who has provided information...strictly confidential.  I wrote to you privately that I would not write anything more unless attacked and I felt a need to defend myself.  So, I will defend.  CC 

[GoodOlBoy]

You (Mila) were paid,.....

I guess some people didn't read this whole thread (or CC's thread).

Mila was STIFFED by CC.

CC gave her about half of what her bill was (CC paid appx. $5. WHOLE DOLLARS per hour). Nice guy. 


Az1 posted one of Mila's e-mails and apparently he asked for and she returned some or ALL of his monies. Another RWD cheap skate. 

Here is the second one, guys. Make your own minds up
bye‏
From:    Mila (L.Mila@meta.ua)
Sent:    22 March 2009 19:59:52
To:    ASIF BHANA (asifbhana@hotmail.com)

Hi! I was glad to meet you and since this time, you and Anya are not exist for me any more. Yes, i will return all money back. Bye and good luck!!!

Mila

GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

However, at this time I am not able to respond other than a short post.

Blah, Blah, Blah.......   

Mila wants the gloves off so I will be responding in deatail within the next day or so.......Since the gloves are off, nothing will be off-limits......So, I will defend.  CC 

All I can say is: 

   



And not to leave out our "younger" RWD members:

 


GOB


BTW.....I pick Mila in 5 (posts). 

[GoodBrew]

GB,,  now this is a curiosity piquing twist. Some questions please if you don't mind answering...

did you actually see what transpired? how exactly did you learn about these lies of omission or Az1's situation at all? Did someone actually discuss *his* situation with you?  How do you know what Mila and her husband actually did to look out for Az1's health and safety? What exactly did you witness first hand as opposed to being told?  What is the confidentiality policy you were quoted or given prior to using the services yourself?

You were there and he was there, at the same time, but did you actually interact with Az1 in any real context?

Dave,

I asked Mila how successful her other clients in town were when I was in Kharkov and was told this which will actually confirm one thing that Az wrote.    

"Scott, we stopped his ad days ago and still they call!"

As for looking out for his health and safety and delivering him to his flight it had a direct affect on the timeliness of some things that were being prepared for me.  I did not know about this at the time.  I receive a blanket statement from Mila that "I must take care of another client on this day and will not be able to help you" when she has duties for another client.  Asif was in Kharkov prior to my arrival so first come, first served.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier was the griping over the increase in apartment price.  Mila does not set the price since she does not own the apartments that she procures for her clients.  While I was in Kharkov THE main topic of conversation among the locals I met was price increases for basic items.  The lead news story for two days was the overnight doubling of the Metro fare.      

One more thing.  Any suggestion that my relationship with Anya might be threatened by Mila is silly.  Anya speaks good English and our contact with Mila has been minimal since I returned from Kharkov in February.

Mila, you really need to sit this out.  Nothing good will come from your involvement here or in Robert's thread.  Learn from any mistakes that you might have made and move on.      

[Taz]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier was the griping over the increase in apartment price.  Mila does not set the price since she does not own the apartments that she procures for her clients.  While I was in Kharkov THE main topic of conversation among the locals I met was price increases for basic items.  The lead news story for two days was the overnight doubling of the Metro fare.

While I can't speak for Kharkov, I recently found the opposite in my recent trip to Ukraine. I found I was actually able to get a better price than before. Many rents are set in grivna (not all but many) and converted into dollars or Euro. In my situation I found rents decreased from Christmas time based on the stronger dollar vis a vis the grivna.

I could see prices going up (in dollars) if the dollar fell against the griven. I did notices some local prices of mostly imported goods had gone up. Locally sourced goods were still pretty much the same. McDonald's prices were unchanged anywhere I went and so was Chelatano's (the pizza chain).

So I can't speculate with respect to Mila's situation. I just find it hard to fathom. If she is successful, she should carry some weight with the client owners. Almost forgot, another friend rented an apartment (this time) as well and his rent was the same as for one night as another paid for the same rental on a much longer basis at Christmas.

It is quite common for terps (in my personal experience) to receive a commission so to speak on the apartment rental. I am not opposed to that as I believe in compensating someone for their services. It could have been this situation here but that would only be speculation on my part.

So to recap, some prices have gone up basic necessities. I haven't seen that with apartments in several cities I was in. Quite the opposite I've seen prices start to fall from their overly inflated previous prices. Your mileage may vary on this so be sure to negotiate prices.

Lastly don't feel to sad for Mila if she only made $5/hr. The average Ukrainian would be happy as hell to make that kind of money. The last girl I dated long term made $1.75/hr and had an advanced degree. So put away your hankies and don't cry too much for Mila. My friend met a girl who was living on less than $1/hr in a governmental job as a teacher. So Mila's compensation in local terms even at $5/hr isn't terrible by any stretch. By charging dollars she has insulate herself against the downturn of the grivna. Last year a terp cost 60 (or so) grivna an hour in many cities. When the dollar fell they asked for more dollars. When the dollar strengthened they didn't ask for less... I am not referring to Mila specifically but in general. They want their cake and to eat it too. Choose whichever works best for them.

[GoodOlBoy]

Lastly don't feel to sad for Mila if she only made $5/hr.

Yeah.........I am sure you will have this same "cavalier" attitude Friday when you go to collect your paycheck from the boss and it is HALF or LESS what you are supposed to be paid.

I can imagine the delightful look on your face when he says: "Be grateful for the crumbs off my plate, now go feed your family".  :evil:


GOB

[CCowboy]

Everyone wants specifics and details, so here they are.  Prior to my arrival in Kharkov, Mila and I had exchanged more than a dozen e-mails, the first on Feb 3rd, and several times on Skype.  I'm not going to post all the e-mails, but I will say that every portion of my trip was thoroughly discussed.  This is what I wrote regarding the apartment on March 10.

"I was discussing the apartment situation with Richard because sometimes it is not so easy to reserve an apartment for one month....actually 28 days, if we wait too long.  Since I have been to Kharkov before, I know the city center area well.  I mentioned I had rented an apartment across from Pizza Bella.  I have also rented an apartment on Pravdi, Cultury, and Sumskaya.  All the locations were good.  If I am within 10-15 minutes by foot from Lenin Monument, that is good.  About the apartment:  I prefer a 2 room apartment but a 1 room is OK if the kitchen is separate from the main room.  I don't like an apartment that is just one big room.  Also, the bed is very important to me.  I am 183cm and 100kg and it is difficult to find a comfortable bed.  I have had sofa beds before or two small beds together and it did not work well for me.  I need a queen or king size bed and a real bed.  It is also important that I have Internet but not dial up.  I need high speed cable or DSL with unlimited use.  A washing machine would be nice.  I usually need to wash clothes 2-3 times.  I eat in the apartment much more than going out so I need a full kitchen with a full size refrigerator and microwave.  A nice TV with either cable or satellite and a DVD player would be preferred.  Basically, my apartment is a home away from home so I want to feel comfortable and also comfortable if a woman visits me.
 
Two times I rented apartments through Slava and they were OK.  I had to install cable Internet service in both of them.  The other two apartments I rented from a woman, Elena who has a business named Ukraine Apartments,  http://ukraineapartments.com.  Maybe you have done business with her before.  Her father and brother live in Kharkov and that is where most of her apartments are located.  They were the apartments across from Pizza Bella and on Pravdi.  They were nice but it was necessary for me to use Internet cards and dial up in one.  That was not good.  I checked Elena's website and I saw about 6 apartments that I liked and they are about $750/mo and 2-room apartments.  The prices seem to be a little lower now because of the economy and not as many foreigners can afford to visit Ukraine.  Maybe it is because she has many more apartments and more competition.  I know that prices are much higher with agencies.  I am careful about apartments because it is my biggest expense with my trip."
  

With less than a month before my arrival, Mila had not reserved an apartment for me.  On Mar 31, I asked Mila if I should arrange for my own apartment...I had 3 other sources.  I also expressed my concern about the ad, because it was supposed to begin at least a week prior to my arrival.  I specifically asked about the content of the ad and I got Mila's standard repsonse, "I remember about the ad, so everything is under control, I know what to say.  I know what I am doing.  Do not worry"

On April 11, Mila said she had obtained an apartment for me.  She said I could bring my laptop because there is internet connection.  With my trip about 2 weeks away, I felt everything was set and taken care of.  I arrived in Kharkov the early evening of April 27, day 1.  Waiting to meet me was Mila and her husband Anton.  We were all excited that I had finally arrived.  After a short drive, we arrived at the apartment.  The apartment was very nice, westernized, and on the 8th floor with a view of the city.  But after a 28 hour trip with no sleep, I was tired.  Mila said she would return the next morning around 11AM, which eventually became 1PM.  So, it was time for sleep.  The first thing I found out was the "king" bed was 2 twin mattresses with about a 3" gap in between.  I've had this setup before and it was not comfortable, and neither was this one.

Day 2.  When Mila showed up, she told me my internet would be her PeopleNet modem, not the unlimited cable internet I had requested, even though the apartment was already setup for cable internet.  I had previously used PeopleNet and I was not happy with it since it's not unlimited and there is no warning when you run out of time.  It just runs out.  It is probably 3 times more expensive than cable.  Mila tried to install the PeopleNet program on my computer, but couldn't.  Anton came over and tried to install it.  He couldn't.  Mila said that we would go to the PeopleNet office the next day and everything would be OK.  In the meantime, I had my first meeting from the ad.  The woman was 52, pleasant, but not what I was looking for, and it wasn't her age.

I also learned that the lady was a little upset because Mila had changed the meeting time 3 times on her.  Anyway, it was my first meeting so I didn't say anything to Mila except I wasn't interested in a second meeting.  That was it, just that one meeting, although it was about 4PM.  Day 3. Mila took me to the PeopleNet office, but she had to leave after a few minutes so I was left to get my internet up and running on my own.  Not a big deal.  After nearly an hour, I had internet.  Later, it was time for my second meeting, this was Larisa who is Mila's hairdresser.  I recognized Larisa from her photos and introduced myself because Mila hadn't arrived yet.  She would be about 15 minutes late.  Off we went to a cafe and it was a nice meeting.  I was interested to meet Larisa again, but with her busy schedule with work and the upcoming holidays, she could meet again until the following week.  Although it was about 3PM, Mila had no other meetings for me for the rest of the day.

I returned to my apartment to go online to arrange my own meeting from women I had contacted on Flirt.  Surprise!!  No internet.  I tried contacting Mila but no answer.  So, I returned to the PeopleNet store and I was able to explain that I had no interent.  Apparantly, something wasn't enabled but it was quickly fixed by them.  So, back to my apartment for a little rest before joining a friend for his birthday party.  That was a night and morning I'll never forget, even if I wanted to.   Day 4.  Mila had another meeting arranged for me at noon, not from my ad but she had responded previously to another RWD member's ad..  Again, I arrived on time and I saw a woman standing there reading a newspaper and glancing up frequently.  She was attractive, nice figure, so I just said "Natasha"?  My perception was right.  We waited 30 minutes before Mila arrived.  Fortunately, Natasha knew some basic English so we had some small talk.  We had a nice approximately 2 hour meeting and agreed that we would meet again.  Fortunately Natasha and I exchanged phone numbers so we could arrange our own meeting.  

It was during the meeting that I learned Natasha had come 5 hours by train to meet me, that she had responded to someone else's ad previously, and that she was 34.  But, I liked her, great personality, nice looking, and I was willing to see what could develop.  Mila informed me she would be leaving Kharkov to visit family and we wouldn't meet again until the following Tuesday....Day 9.  In fact, Natasha had planned to return with Mila and Anton since they were going to the same city, but instead, decided to stay in Kharkov.  So, I was basically on my own.  I met with Natasha a couple of times during those days and I also met a couple of women from Flirt.  So, for my first week through Mila, I met the one woman from the ad and the two personal introductions.  Many fewer than I had expected but I still had 3 more weeks to go so no need to panic.   TO BE CONTINUED.A          

[GoodBrew]

It is quite common for terps (in my personal experience) to receive a commission so to speak on the apartment rental. I am not opposed to that as I believe in compensating someone for their services. It could have been this situation here but that would only be speculation on my part.

Another one of Kharkov's free agents clued me in as to how much the introduction agencies tack onto their pricing so I am somewhat aware of the commissions that can be made off apartments.  Mila's price quotes are competitive based upon the information that I have and in comparison to what the agencies are offering.                   

[Taz]

Yeah.........I am sure you will have this same "cavalier" attitude Friday when you go to collect your paycheck from the boss and it is HALF or LESS what you are supposed to be paid.

I can imagine the delightful look on your face when he says: "Be grateful for the crumbs off my plate, now go feed your family".  :evil:


GOB

Unlike many, I take responsibility for my own actions. I was in business for myself for a long time. Many times I "ate" it and took a loss on something to keep my customers happy in the long run. It isn't a cavalier attitude but sometimes a good business practice. Hell, she still came out well on the deal. Sometimes I lost then ENTIRE cost of the product because one of my employees screwed up. I got 0, zilch, nada from it. I took my lumps and moved on. My customers were happy and in the long run it all evened out.

As for collecting a paycheck, I just got shafted a very sizable sum because I company I worked with went into bankruptcy. I will likely lose more than some people make in an entire year do to this. You don't hear me whining about it. I am not happy about it but that is the way it works sometimes. OTOH that relationship was very profitable for me the last several years. In the grand scheme of things I am still way ahead of the game if I hadn't taken that opportunity. I lost more than Mila most likely will make in the next few years. So don't talk to me about these kinds of issues. They are a fact of life in the business world. You take your lumps and move on. Not all customers will be great and the hours can be long. If you don't like it, find a new profession. I am sure she can get a job working for less than $2/hr like the vast majority of Ukrainians. I am not quite yet ready to have a pity party for her. A slight reduction in her income sucks but she still made more off 1 client (CC) than most people do in an entire month in Ukraine.

[Sculpto]

Yeah.........I am sure you will have this same "cavalier" attitude Friday when you go to collect your paycheck from the boss and it is HALF or LESS what you are supposed to be paid.

I can imagine the delightful look on your face when he says: "Be grateful for the crumbs off my plate, now go feed your family".  :evil:


GOB

Gosh GOB.. you are sounding like me.. I don't even have to comment on the rip off the Ukrainian attitude Taz is showing.  Nice job! 

[Taz]

Show me where I EVER ripped off a Ukrainian? I've done far more to help disadvantaged Ukrainians and Russians that you ever will. I've gone and helped at orphanages. I've donated to many worthy FSU causes. My family has a long service of helping Russians doing pro bono work.

I have donated thousands of dollars of my own personal income to help people in need in the FSU. What have you done? I am merely suggesting that Mila could have done things better. Are you too blind to see that? It isn't as though she received no compensation. Based on what I see, she received compensation for services she didn't provide. I am not against anybody receiving a fair wage for their services. If she didn't provide the requested services OR they were defective then a remedy should be found.

I am one of the fairest and most altruistic people you will meet. I'll stack my reputation up against yours any day or GOB's for that matter both in the real world and virtual. My posts are almost always well balanced and without malice. I am not blind to the sins of my friends nor the virtues of my enemies.

If Mila doesn't like her comp package then she should find another line of work. In light of the incredible financial crisis in Ukraine, she isn't living on crumbs... far from it.

[Sculpto]

Show me where I EVER ripped of a Ukrainian? I've done far more to help disadvantaged Ukrainians and Russians that you ever will. I've gone and helped at orphanages. I've donated to many worthy FSU causes. My family has a long service of helping Russians doing pro bono work.

I have donated thousands of dollars of my own personal income to help people in need in the FSU. What have you done? I am merely suggesting that Mila could have done things better. Are you too blind to see that? It isn't as though she received no compensation. Based on what I see, she received compensation for services she didn't provide. I am not against anybody receiving a fair wage for their services. If she didn't provide the requested services OR they were defective then a remedy should be found.

I am one of the fairest and most altruistic people you will meet. I'll stack my reputation up against yours any day or GOB's for that matter both in the real world and virtual. My posts are almost always well balanced and without malice. I am not blind to the sins of my friends nor the virtues of my enemies.

If Mila doesn't like her comp package then she should find another line of work. In light of the incredible financial crisis in Ukraine, she isn't living on crumbs... far from it.

TAZ, I am not questioning that.. I just don't really like the attitude of "she should be thankful for the favor of making $10 an hour".  Why would any of us who come from more prosperous countries diminish the efforts of anyone who is trying to create prosperity for themselves?  To me it isn't congruent with your philanthropic efforts.  What I understand from your comment is its ok to be an orphan and take handout, but, if you are creative and do something to lift yourself and your family up you are judged by a different standard. 

[START2]

Hey all,
  It's about this time of year that I usually start lurking about the forum because I used to like reading the trip reports. I came across this thread because I saw Taz posted.
   I was saddened to still see the usual list of the Jerry Springer types who continue to enjoy nothing but starting a good fight and being critical about nearly every subject. One poster made a comment that said "many here" .....have this particular view. It seems to me that the many were maybe 6 or 7.
   You completely took a trip report and tried to ruin a few reputations here and in the business sector. You found joy and satisfaction in it. You wanted nothing more than to see a business owner attempt to divulge an expected confidence with a customer so you could get your nut. Shame on you.
   It would have been so much easier to ask inquiring questions about the trip. Like, where did you end up staying? Do you recommend it? What restaurants or cafe's did you frequent? What discos did you go to? A host of other positve questions even if the OP didn't delve right into it. I bet it would have been more informative and possibly more fun to read. Do you not care about those things here anymore or is it just become a flame session now? Is that where you find joy?
   You completely missed Taz's wisdom about doing business. It's what I suggested to Mila and sent her an PM to discuss with her. I will post a copy here so there is no mistake. She must learn to do business the proper way or it will cost her in this case.
  I hope that threads like this will cease to exist so that the trip report season can be more enjoyable and informative.   Have a great summer guys and gals and if you're travelling, have a great time.
 



Mila,
   I feel bad that you have let yourself fall into a trap by a few posters on the forum who enjoy constant arguing. I do not visit the forum much anymore because of this. They always seem to enjoy getting a fight started. It is their purpose.
   I have been to Ukr many times. I have many friends there and consider Ukr my second home.  My wife is from the Sumy region and we visit every year. This year some of my family will be traveling with us. Also a few friends will be arriving at different times during our stay. They are single men, and are considered well to do. They like the finer things in life and when a service they use is exceptional they tend to tip accordingly.
  I cannot be with them to guide them the entire time we are there so I told them that there are services that can help. Your name was on the list of services that might help them.
    I have owned business's before. There is not one business that is without a few unsatisfied customers. It is impossible to satisfy 100%. There will always be a few that have problems, from the very petty to the legitimate complaints. All you can do as a business owner is make sure that the customers you do satisfy are so well satisfied that your business will be recommended by their reference. In these times and the nature of your business I would think the customer would and should expect a level of confidentiality.
  Your post was greatly troubling. I have relayed my concerns to my friends and recommended they not use your service. Your threat to expose a client for their quirks is not worth the breach of confidentiality. No matter if you have many more satisfied customers or not. At all costs you need to protect that part of your business.
  Those boys in the forum were only interested in seeing a fight. They welcomed one and tried to encourage it. Your response has probably cost you several hundred dollars in service fees and and I imagine near the same amount in tips for a job well done.
  What I am trying to say is, in the future, protect your character and integrity above all else. Not by insulting words and threats but by superior service. More people will respect you for that than anything else.
   Good luck to you.

[SMS60]

Hey all,
  It's about this time of year that I usually start lurking about the forum because I used to like reading the trip reports. I came across this thread because I saw Taz posted.
   I was saddened to still see the usual list of the Jerry Springer types who continue to enjoy nothing but starting a good fight and being critical about nearly every subject. One poster made a comment that said "many here" .....have this particular view. It seems to me that the many were maybe 6 or 7.
   You completely took a trip report and tried to ruin a few reputations here and in the business sector. You found joy and satisfaction in it. You wanted nothing more than to see a business owner attempt to divulge an expected confidence with a customer so you could get your nut. Shame on you.
   It would have been so much easier to ask inquiring questions about the trip. Like, where did you end up staying? Do you recommend it? What restaurants or cafe's did you frequent? What discos did you go to? A host of other positve questions even if the OP didn't delve right into it. I bet it would have been more informative and possibly more fun to read. Do you not care about those things here anymore or is it just become a flame session now? Is that where you find joy?
   You completely missed Taz's wisdom about doing business. It's what I suggested to Mila and sent her an PM to discuss with her. I will post a copy here so there is no mistake. She must learn to do business the proper way or it will cost her in this case.
  I hope that threads like this will cease to exist so that the trip report season can be more enjoyable and informative.   Have a great summer guys and gals and if you're travelling, have a great time.
 



Mila,
   I feel bad that you have let yourself fall into a trap by a few posters on the forum who enjoy constant arguing. I do not visit the forum much anymore because of this. They always seem to enjoy getting a fight started. It is their purpose.
   I have been to Ukr many times. I have many friends there and consider Ukr my second home.  My wife is from the Sumy region and we visit every year. This year some of my family will be traveling with us. Also a few friends will be arriving at different times during our stay. They are single men, and are considered well to do. They like the finer things in life and when a service they use is exceptional they tend to tip accordingly.
  I cannot be with them to guide them the entire time we are there so I told them that there are services that can help. Your name was on the list of services that might help them.
    I have owned business's before. There is not one business that is without a few unsatisfied customers. It is impossible to satisfy 100%. There will always be a few that have problems, from the very petty to the legitimate complaints. All you can do as a business owner is make sure that the customers you do satisfy are so well satisfied that your business will be recommended by their reference. In these times and the nature of your business I would think the customer would and should expect a level of confidentiality.
  Your post was greatly troubling. I have relayed my concerns to my friends and recommended they not use your service. Your threat to expose a client for their quirks is not worth the breach of confidentiality. No matter if you have many more satisfied customers or not. At all costs you need to protect that part of your business.
  Those boys in the forum were only interested in seeing a fight. They welcomed one and tried to encourage it. Your response has probably cost you several hundred dollars in service fees and and I imagine near the same amount in tips for a job well done.
  What I am trying to say is, in the future, protect your character and integrity above all else. Not by insulting words and threats but by superior service. More people will respect you for that than anything else.
   Good luck to you.

Pftttttt.

Whats this post about??  Dangling a carrot in front of someone then taunting with it. Like,? too bad you could of had this if you acted like this. Childish!!!!

By the way your avatar looks as is if it has been cropped. I.E. Inserting a picture with yours.

 first post in this topic a personal attack ? pfffft.....

[GoodOlBoy]

A host of other positve questions even if the OP didn't delve right into it. I bet it would have been more informative and possibly more fun to read.

Yes I agree, BUT.....BOTH OP's (Az1/CC) were to busy "DELVING" into slandering Mila rather than the "fun" things that you like to read. 

So......they got called out on it.


GOB

[groovlstk]

Pftttttt.

Whats this post about??  Dangling a carrot in front of someone then taunting with it. Like,? too bad you could of had this if you acted like this. Childish!!!!

By the way your avatar looks as is if it has been cropped. I.E. Inserting a picture with yours.

This is why the guys like START2, who are in long-term, successful marriages and have paid their dues by coming back to RWD to help others, eventually decide "to hell with it" and leave.

[GoodOlBoy]

This is why the guys like START2, who are in long-term, successful marriages and have paid their dues by coming back to RWD to help others, eventually decide "to hell with it" and leave.

I hear what you are saying Groovlstk, BUT....In more than 4 years of membership on RWD and START2 only has 400 postings?   

How much "help" has START2 really been to Newbies here?

As compared to you with well over 2000 quality postings in 3 years?

JMO, BUT...I would have to say that you have been a great help to many. 

I have seen several of these "types" lately duck into to RWD, state things like: "RWD has gone down hill" and "It sure isn't like the GoodOl'Days".

Then leave for a while and then return and do the same thing again?

During KenC's thread, one of these characters even came on here and slammed Dan for not getting rid of all of the "BAD" members??

Do you seriously consider these guy's "contributors" here?


GOB

[Mod3]

Quantity is not quality.
Please do not make personal attack on any of the posters, or try to úse 'smart' namecalling.

[kievstar]

Start2 is no different the rest of the people posting this thread (have to sort through the BS).  He came on to brag about well to do friends and not using Mila.  Sending an email to Mila and talking down to her.  What value is that?  Anyone can own a business. 

AZ1 and CC did not write a detailed trip report.  Came to complain.  Yes myself and others are guilty to for adding fuel to the fire.  Start2 is no different.

I looked through Start2 posts - he came on RWD asking a lot of questions to get help back in 2005.. Was not married when he joined the site.  He has not been married long.  Has a military background. Asks more questions than providing advise.

Groove - you are an exception.  Longtime member who gives more to RWD than what he takes.

[Admin]

I hear what you are saying Groovlstk, BUT....In more than 4 years of membership on RWD and START2 only has 400 postings?   

How much "help" has START2 really been to Newbies here?

As compared to you with well over 2000 quality postings in 3 years?

JMO, BUT...I would have to say that you have been a great help to many. 

I have seen several of these "types" lately duck into to RWD, state things like: "RWD has gone down hill" and "It sure isn't like the GoodOl'Days".

Then leave for a while and then return and do the same thing again?

During KenC's thread, one of these characters even came on here and slammed Dan for not getting rid of all of the "BAD" members??

Do you seriously consider these guy's "contributors" here?


GOB

Firstly, I am going to refer you - and everyone - to the RWD Vision. It makes a VERY clear point about "inclusivity" and about "tolerance" and "civility."

Next, I will point you - and everyone - to the sticky post on Guidelines for Civil Discourse, which encourages civility, tolerance, respect, and giving others the benefit of the doubt.

You will note by their absence any mention of "judgment" or "condemnation" or other such negative behaviors. Those behaviors are antithesis to our core values.

Calling people names, of any sort, is wholly inappropriate. I am reviewing the use of the term "Hadji" as a likely pejorative term that has no place at RWD, or in any civil exchange.

Anytime there are monetary transactions, there are opportunities for squabbles - some are serious and indicative of underlying corruption - and some are petty and nearly inconsequential in real terms. In such cases, it is inevitable that normally reasonable people will find themselves at odds.

Our challenge is to find our way through these disagreements, and still peacefully coexist to provide substance and value to our community.

Let's rise to that challenge.

- Dan

[JR]

Two individuals possibly told lies (many here picked up on this) and adzagerated the truth (also many here picked up on this).

Now for Mila to have kept silent here reputation would have been ruined. Now it is being said if she opens her mouth she will be ruined.

There is a time when customer be damned and the gloves come off.

This was a case where two customers pushed it to the limit and as stated above under false pretenses.

Mila made the right choice in her post. She did not expose them. (Sorry I do not feel saying Robert is exposing. Million Roberts in the world).
She warned then if they continue with the lies she will expose them for who they are.

 At the present the other has also become silent.

Possibly told lies? Exaggerated the truth?: Were you there? How do you know what the truth is? Only three people know what the truth is about this post. Only two of them have the right to reveal it. Mila is not one of them.

Damned if she speaks and damned if she doesn't: Not really. If her response had been, "I recognize I failed in a few areas and will work diligently to improve my services" she would have stood the high ground, come out smelling like a rose and probably gained customers and a lot of respect. Someone up thread said that this would be, what was it? A WalMart approach? I think WalMart is far more successful than Mila will ever be so I'd take WalMart's approach and benchmark it.

Customers be damned: Then you lose customers and in this economic environment that is not wise.

False pretenses: again, how do you know they are false?

Mila made the right choice: I disagree.

And you are correct, Robert means nothing. However the way Mila presented the first names was to drive home a point. Namely that she is willing to divulge whatever personal information she has regarding them. And that is my primary problem with what she posted.

At the present the other has also become silent: Actually he hasn't. And if 'A' doesn't come back who's to blame him? He has nothing to gain but grief.

If Mila had handled this correctly it would have been a PR windfall for her. Instead it just makes her look unprofessional.

[kievstar]

Jolly Rats do you really have any idea how Walmart works?  Why do most of their suppliers call them TrashMart behind their back.

WalMart does business the opposite of Toyota.  Both make money but one does it by being a dictator and one does it with class. I do have stock in both.