Kharkiv (Jan - Feb 09) - My experience so far

[JR]

Calling people names, of any sort, is wholly inappropriate. I am reviewing the use of the term "Hadji" as a likely pejorative term that has no place at RWD, or in any civil exchange.
- Dan

"Hadji" was a character of Indian decent on the cartoon series Johnny Quest.

[Admin]

"Hadji" was a character of Indian decent on the cartoon series Johnny Quest.

Perhaps for some that is the only definition/connotation. Sadly, it is also a clearly pejorative term used to insult and disparage others (ref. - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hadji)

GOB has offered an apology which is (hopefully) the result of his originally being ignorant of the insult.

- Dan

[JR]

Jolly Rats do you really have any idea how Walmart works?  Why do most of their suppliers call them TrashMart behind their back.

WalMart does business the opposite of Toyota.  Both make money but one does it by being a dictator and one does it with class. I do have stock in both.

Let me see...they operate on a for profit basis? And they were one of the few major corporations to post a profit in the beginning of the financial crisis?

Every business has their detractors. How many of those suppliers would call them that to their face and expect to continue doing business with them? That is the more important question.

[JR]

Perhaps for some that is the only definition/connotation. Sadly, it is also a clearly pejorative term used to insult and disparage others (ref. - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hadji)

GOB has offered an apology which is (hopefully) the result of his originally being ignorant of the insult.

- Dan

I was pulling that out of memory, not so good anymore. Come to think of it never has been that great I Just did a google search for Johnny Quest instead of Hadji. Only GOB knows what he meant by it.

[Admin]

I was pulling that out of memory, not so good anymore. Come to think of it never has been that great I Just did a google search for Johnny Quest instead of Hadji. Only GOB knows what he meant by it.

Fair enough.

Still, to refer to someone with a term - ANY term - is unnecessary, and runs the risk of ignorantly stepping on one's crank.

- Dan

[Sculpto]

hey, I'm a HEEB.. there I said it.. if anyone else says it, its an insult. 

[JR]

Fair enough.

Still, to refer to someone with a term - ANY term - is unnecessary, and runs the risk of ignorantly stepping on one's crank.

- Dan

Very true.

The only fair test is to ask "A" how he felt about it.

If I remember correctly (here we go again with that memory thing:)) when the Supreme Court rules on racial slander it does so not on how the speaker meant it but on how the reciever took it.

[Admin]

Very true.

The only fair test is to ask "A" how he felt about it.

If I remember correctly (here we go again with that memory thing:)) when the Supreme Court rules on racial slander it does so not on how the speaker meant it but on how the reciever took it.

>>The only fair test is to ask "A" how he felt about it.<<

I already know.

- Dan

[CCowboy]

Before I continue, I want to say that I don't know most of you or your history on RWD.  There are maybe 10 members who I have personally met.  Compared to the veterans, I haven't posted that much and therefore do not have as much credibility.  For a few, they feel I have no credibility at all.  That is there perrogative.  I also know that regardless of what I say, there will be those ready to flame me.  That is also their perrogative.  So, now I will continue and each person can form their own opinions.

It's now day 9 and Mila has informed me I have another meeting from the ad.  So, we go to a cafe that we used for most of my meetings.  I quickly learned this young lady is 30 y.o. and with a 7 y.o. daughter.  I am wondering, "Why are we meeting"?  She proceeds to tell me that she is becoming a doctor like other members of her family and soon she will have an opportunity to work in the U.S.  The meeting lasts for about an our and we part.  So, I ask Mila why she arranged this meeting.  The woman is too young and she has a 7 y.o. daughter.  Mila became a little flustered and just said "She didn't tell me she had a daughter".  Mila had scheduled a second meeting so there was no time to discuss things further.

We met the next woman and rather than go to a cafe, the woman said she would just like to walk.  She was a friendly and pleasant woman but not a woman I could be interested in.  Simply, I was not attracted to her and I'll let it go at that.  That evening I again met with Natasha and we had dinner and a pleasant evening.  That evening Mila informed me I had another meeting the following day.  So, now it's day 10 and we meet this woman at a cafe.  It was not a good meeting and it lasted about 20 minutes.  Mila sat there with her arms folded and after the woman told us about herself, Mila talked to the woman and then she left.  It was a very uncomfortable meeting for everyone.  That was the only meeting Mila arranged for the day.

It's now day 11 and Mila arranged for another meeting.  I asked Mila what she could tell me about the woman and Mila could only respond she was 47, nothing else.  We met the woman inside the exit of the metro.  I was shocked.  The woman was about 5'5" (165cm) and weighed about 175lbs (80kg) and looked about 60.   I didn't say a word and the meeting was over in 3 minutes.  I told Mila we needed to talk.  I asked Mila "Why am I meeting these women"?  "Aren't you asking questions to screen them like we discussed"?  Then we got into the ad and I learned Mila listed my age, which I told her not to, and she had agreed.  I told Mila long before I came to Kharkov that I had run a similar ad once before and on the advice of the person I was working with, my age wasn't included and I had 40+ responses.    

Before arriving in Kharkov, I provided Mila with detailed information about myself including photos.  I had told Mila of previous relationships and that I was interested in women from their early 40's to their late 40's.  I had also told Mila that the reason it's important to ask the screening questions is because I didn't want to meet women that was obviously going to be a waste of time.  I also didn't want to have a woman experience what the last woman experienced...3 minutes and she's dismissed.  Mila was free to answer any questions a woman might have and to see my photos.  

The screening process was thoroughly discussed before my arrival.  If Mila didn't want to place an ad that included my age or she didn't want to screen the women, she should have told me.  If I had said to Mila, "I'll meet any woman who responds to the ad and we'll see what happens", then it's the luck of the draw.  I can't fault Mila completely on the ad because, as has been pointed out, it was my ad, I was paying for it, and I should have insisted on a copy before it was published.  That was my fault.  My real complaint about the ad campaign is that Mila had agreed not to list my age, but she did anyway, and she agreed to ask the questions to screen the women, which wasn't done.  At this point, I felt the ad campaign was dead.  Whether someone agrees with this or not, if I had said I was only interested in women under 25, then it would be Mila's decision to accept me as a client or tell me to find someone else.   But regardless what the ad says, once Mila agreed to run the ad campaign, she has an obligation to follow my wishes.  

It's now day 12 and I'll be meeting a woman "I" from Flirt with Mila translating.  "I" will be 43 in June, very attractive, and I instantly liked her.   The meeting went well and lasted about an hour and a half.  At the end of the meetings I let "I" know I enjoyed meeting her very much and I would like to see her again.  "I" told me that was fine with her and the next time she could meet me was Sunday, day 14.  Saturday evening Mila sent a message that "I" could not meet with me on Sunday.  So, I called Mila and asked if she could not meet on Sunday, or didn't want to meet at all.  She told me "I" wanted to meet with her only and to tell her the kind of man she's interested in.  Apparantly I wasn't what she was looking for, but that's OK.  This is part of the process.  It not about one person choosing a person but two people choosing each other.  I dropped it and moved on.

Mila then informed me she had arranged 3 meetings for me on Sunday.  When I asked for information about the women, Mila couldn't provide any except to say they were from the ad.  Based on prior experiences and that Mila could not tell me anything about the women, I declined.  So, it's the end of my 2nd week.  I had met 5 women from the ad plus Larisa and Natasha, far less than I had expected.  I met Larisa again with Mila the following week, but she said she had plans for the weekend and could not meet.  Although I liked Larisa, I felt she didn't have the time to cultivate a relationship.  It's also possible that she simply wasn't interested, but she should have known that after the first meeting.  

The last meeting Mila arranged was with another personal friend of her's.  This woman was mid 40's, attractive, two grown daughters, and a very nice woman.  During the conversation I learned she had a very succesful doll business and her daughters worked with her.  These are not the kinds of dolls you see in a shop.  They are custom dolls that sell for $500+.  I also learned she had just received a contract to design and make 25 costumes for the next "Pirates of The Carribean" movie.  So I asked myself, why would a woman with such a successful business and working with her daughters be interested in marriage with a foreign man and moving to a foreign country?  It didn't make sense.  It's just as important for me to know why a woman is willing to change her present life for a new life.  There needs to be a motivation on the woman's part.

Now I'm becoming suspicious.  I'm meeting a 30 y.o. woman with a 7 y.o. child when I've told Mila not that young and no school-aged children(to clarify dependent children).  I meet a woman who is obviously very over weight.  Now I meet a woman who I feel has no reasonable reason to abandon a very successful life and leave her daughters to marry a foreign man.  I had still been seeing Natasha although I was unsure if we were right for each other, age difference being one of my concerns.  So, I asked Natasha if she knew my age before meeting, since she was 34.  Answer: "No".  I asked her if she would have travelled so far to meet a 64 y.o. man if she knew his age.  Again, "No".  She said Mila never told her my age.  Mila said she did.  I had more reason to believe Natasha than I did Mila.

So, altogether I met 5 women from the ad, and two for sure I feel I should have never met had Mila asked the proper questions.  I had 3 personal introductiions and logically, I can't see how the last woman would be interested in marriage with a foreign man, considering her successful business and her daughters being part of it.  I'm not paranoid but too many unanswered questions, too many inconsistencies, too many things just didn't add up.  I lost trust and faith in Mila and we had no further business for my final 11 days, except for my last day going to the bus station.  In fact, I had no contact at all with Mila for my last 9 days.  During my trip, I had met 3 women from Flirt on my own, plus "I" who I met with Mila.  The only woman I met more than once, except for my two meetings with Larisa, was Natasha.  

I do want to say that Mila did something nice for Natasha and me.  She arranged for us to go to a nightclub called Plasma on Natasha's birthday eve.  I think it's a fairly small cover charge, about $4/person, but Mila gave us an invitation.  We had a private table that we shared with another friend.  For 3 Coronas and 3 bottles of champagne, the bill came to 270 grivna or about $36, to compare to AZ1's 1000 grivna night.  Anyway, it was a thoughtful thing for Mila to do.  

So, now it's my last day and Mila and Anton have come to take me to the bus station, Anton waiting in the car.  I left the apartment just as I had found it, except for the dust that had accumilated.  We talked about a few things the owner could do to improve the apartment, such as putting a king size mattress over the existing twin mattressess, having bedding for a king bed rather than the twin blankets that were provided, outfitting the kitchen better, and letting the owner know he has leaking pipes in the bathroom.    I think it was uneasy for both of us because we knew that it was not the trip we both hoped it would be.  After about 30 minutes, Mila said we should go to the bus station.  So, Anton came up and helped with my bags and off we went.  Once the bus arrived, I checked my baggage and then just about 10 minutes before departure, Mila asked for $300.  Needless to say, we got into a discussion.  Why wait until the last minute to bring up money in a dark parking lot rather than at the apartment?

When I first arrived, Mila had an itemized list of my expenses:  $840 ($30/day) for the apartment.  $120 for the ad campaign.  $50 for PeopleNet.  $15 for booking fee.  I never questioned anything and just paid the $1025.  I expect that Mila earned a fee from the apartment owner and that is fine.  I've rented 5 other apartments on previous visits and $30/day is what I usually paid.  This was not the best apartment nor the worst and not in the most convienent location, but I was fine with the price and if Mila earned a commission on the side, I had no problem with that.  But I was very uncomfortable with the way Mila was asking for the money, without any accounting of my charges, and especially just as my bus was getting ready to leave.

So, the issue was translation fees and the ad campaign.  If Mila did not follow my instructions when placing the ad, should she be compensated for it?  If Mila did not ask women questions to screen them, should she be compensated for it as well?  Was Mila deliberately not screeing the woman so she could earn extra translating fees?  Simply, if she screened them, she would have less meetings and make less money.  I don't know.  Are AZ1 and I the only clients of Mila's who met women they wouldn't have met had they be screened?  Maybe all her other clients didn't care if they were screened.  Maybe her other clints didn't care because they untlmately met the woman they were looking for.  Only they know and if they are overall happy with Mila, there is no reason for them to say anything.  

So, instead of Mila saying at the apartment, "Here's my bill for my services, let's go over it".  I'm left to decide if I should pay all of it, which I didn't feel I should.  Should I not pay any of it, and I felt that wasn't right.  So, taking into account that most of the $120 I paid for the ad was to compensate Mila for her time responding to the ad calls and feeling that she should not be compensated for translation services for women I should have never met, I came up with a number.  Is it exactly accurate?  Probably not.  Is it fair given the circumstances?  I think so.  So, for Mila's services, she received the $150 I gave her at the bus station, the bulk of the $120 I paid for the ad, and probably a fee from the owner for renting the apartment.  

For me, I spent about $2500 that was essentially a wasted trip.  Someone wrote that this is really about money.  Partially true, but for the men who makes these trips, it's much more than about money.  Mila is not a poor Ukrainian girl struggling to get by.  She wears designer clothers, they have a new car, and Mila told me they live in one of the more exclusive parts of Kharkov.  But the issue was fair compensation and I feel Mila was fairly compensated under the conditions.  If others choose to disagree, again, that is their perrogative.  

Mila, I am not a newbie making my first trip.  In fact, I've made more trips than expected and made my share of mistakes.  I know what is the normal daily rate for a 2 room apartment in the city center of Kharkov, such as the one I stayed in...usually around $50/day.  I also know that when an apartment is rented for longer stays, usually 3 weeks and more, that same apartment will rent for much less, usually about the $30/day I paid.  Considering that the exchange rate is now 7.5 to 1 compared to the usual 5 to 1, the dollar has 50% more buying power.  Do you remember me telling you if you can't arrange for an apartment, I have other sources, like Elena at Ukraine Apartments.  I've rented from her twice before and I would again.  

But since you were going to be my translator as well as running my ad campaign, it made better business sense to send all the business to one person, you.  I didn't care if you made extra money from booking the apartment or any extra money you made, as long as what I asked for was provided.  Previously, I had a translator that got me a very good apartment at a very good price.  I learned she received nothing from the owner so I gave her $100.  She was my eyes and ears and did a very good job for me and what was in MY best interests.  She listened to my requests and provided them.  I wrote to you about paying attention to details and having a check list of a clients requests.

As you wrote in your last response, this boils down a lot to he said/she said.  Everyone can speculate but only you and I know what really happened during my trip.  Only you and Az1 knows what happened during his trip.  You already wrote to me that you made many mistakes with me.  This whole thing became much more than it ever should have been.  But certain people attacked me and many of those same people wanted to see the fireworks between you and me and Az1.  But when I'm being called a liar, among several other things, I will defend myself and I won't walk away from the battle.  You made mistakes that were crucial to the success of my trip.  When I first wrote my TR, I stated that I felt most of your mistakes were because of inexperience.  I still feel the same.  

I think you're basically a good person but I don't think you're experienced enough to be runnings ads for men.  I think with some clients you've gotten lucky. but when men are spending $2000 and more on a trip, you can't rely on luck, you have to be good and understand the whole process.  Because of meetings you arranged for me that should have never taken place, I lost my faith and trust in you.  It made me skeptical and I questioned most everything you did.  I still have unanswered questions but I don't want to add any more fuel to the fire and give speculators more to speculate about.  I hope this has been a learning lesson for you.  It has for me.  I know I'll never post another trip report and I doubt if I'll post anything more in the future.  It isn't worth the aggravation of trying to deal with men like GOB, Ravens9273, and a few others.  BTW Ravens9273, get yourself a dictionary.  It's "exaggerated".  TO BE CONTINUED...OR MAYBE NOT.                                                                  

    

[Doll]

but when men are spending $2000 and more on a trip, you can't rely on luck 

Very American 

[Taz]

Why is it very "American" Doll? What does nationality have to do with it? Money doesn't grow on trees any place in the world last time I checked. Maybe $2000 to you means nothing...

As for CC not posting another TR. I hope he does. This last one was so much fun! 

[Ravens9273]

It isn't worth the aggravation of trying to deal with men like GOB, Ravens9273, and a few others.  BTW Ravens9273, get yourself a dictionary.  It's "exaggerated".  TO BE CONTINUED...OR MAYBE NOT.

Wow. You sure cut me with that one.

At this point I have learned there are much different types of Men who are involved in this process.
This is also one of the main reasons there are so many arguments on these forums.

We all know the different categories.

I have also seen so outrageous opinions to your story.

I will make this very simple.

You placed an ad. No matter who wrote it this was an ad about you.

You are 64. You were looking for Women with a larger then normal age gap. This already makes your search much harder then most.
However no matter who wrote the ad, the ad was about you. A description about you.

There is a certain type of lady you are looking for. You have said many times the age (stretching 20 to 25 years younger then you are). You have mentioned weight and the lady must be thin. You have mentioned she must be beautiful.

You described the Women you are looking for.
I said from the beginning what happened in your case was the type of Women you were looking for were not attracted to your ad.
They were not interested in the product advertised. That product was you.

You also clearly knew the Women you were looking to meet would not be interested. This is why you wanted to hold back information in the ad such as age. I believe you thought you could later win these ladies over.

I never once put you down for your standards. Every person has the right to choose who they want to be with. Even if what we want to be with is far from our league.

What I always said was I felt it was wrong to put blame on Mila because you did not meet the type of ladies you wanted from the ad.

I have read your post. What I read was not one Lady who actually answered your ad fit the requirements you were looking for.
Mila contacted other ladies for you to meet outside of the ad.
This is the point I was saying all along.
If you had written that you did meet several ladies you were hoping to meet then I would have agreed with you that you should not have met the lady with child etc...

My point is this. It has been this point the whole time.
You were the product of the ad. That product did not attract the Women you were hoping to meet.

If the product had been a younger Man. More attractive Man etc... Then the Women (thin, Attractive etc...)you were hoping to meet maybe would have answered.

There is one simple fact about life. 99% of couples you see match each other. There is very very rare cases in which the opposite occurs.
Attractive Women date and Marry Attractive Men. Average Women date and Marry Average Men. Unattractive Women date and marry Unattractive Men.

My whole point with you was I do not feel it was Mila's fault you did not have the Women you had hoped for answer your ad.

If we take away the ladies who answered the ad who you were unhappy about meeting you would have met no one from the ad.
Not one time did you mention one lady you met from the ad who met your requirements.

CC. Mila cannot make the type of Woman you are looking for answer the ad. Your expectations were way too high for you in who you hoped to meet. I am not saying to give up on what you want. It could happen. But I said over and over it is no one else's fault if you do not find this lady other then your own. You are who you are. If the Woman are not interested in who you are how can this be anyone else's fault?

If Mila had not set the meetings up with the ladies she did. You would have met no one. She also contacted other ladies outside the ad so you had someone to meet. My personally feelings to that is she tried. She tried to at least make sure your trip was not ruined. This is how I personally feel about what she did.
You see it another way. You see it as if she wasted your time and this you and I will always have a difference of opinions on.
Like I said. Had she not done what she did, you would have not met one lady on your trip. What type of trip report would we have read then?

This is what I was trying to say to you all along. What you want appears to not have wanted you from the ad. To have gotten the responses you had hoped for then alot of dishonest information would have been put in the ad as to who you are. Is that fair to ladies to do as well?

If you can tell me that you did meet several ladies that you were HOPING to meet. I will gladly apologize to you and agree 100% the other meetings should never have happened.
At the present I have not read of you meeting one lady from the ad you wished to have responded.

Also I will ad. You mentioned ladies being asked questions that answered the ad such as height, weight, etc...
As any Man knows one of the worst things you could ever ask a Women is her weight.

Had one of the ladies you hoped to have met did respond to the ad. I feel many would have found these questions insulting and possibly turned off. Ask the ladies on this forum how they would have felt being asked these questions. I think you will see many would agree to being insulted.

I will leave one thought in your mind.
How many ladies would you have met had Mila screened as you had asked, and also had Mila not contacted other ladies outside the ad?

the answer would be ZERO.

What that tells you is if you are hoping to meet many ladies. You need to bring the expectations down.
Meeting a thin beautiful Women with no dependant children who is 38 to 48 (as advertised) when you are 64 is going to be one very difficult, if not impossible task.

I do not think Mila deserved the blame for that not happening. This is what I was defending for her.
If anything Mila did wrong it was taking you as a client. I do not mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a way your expectations were too high and almost impossible for anyone to have met. No matter what this was a disaster waiting to happen. Had she not set you up to meet the ladies you did we would have heard different complaint where you paid and she introducted you to no one.
If the ad had been written differently (which seems to be something you are upset about) to get better results that ad would have been misleading or dishonest to have done so. That also get no one anywhere.

[facetrock]

   I read your trip report from last November CC, you know the one where you went to Dnep and got engaged. You spent alot of time talking about how much you spent for your apartment, but I didnt see where you paid only 30 dollars per day.

Anyone here with half a brain can see why you didnt want your age posted in your ad. I said it before, you thought your imagined youthful appearance would win the girls over.

Mila made a few mistakes and I think she learned a few things. The most important thing I think she learned is to be wary of 64 year old men who dont want women to know their age and are looking for women close to 30 years younger and expecting to pay little for anything.

You can try to blame Mila for everything that went wrong but the biggest problem was your age and urealistic expectations.
I dont for a second believe you were interested in a woman in their fortys unless they were drop dead gorgeous. But women like that have far better options than 64 year old men.

I think you can find a woman that age in Ukraine but she will not be the type of woman that makes men stop and stare. If she is that hot talk to Ambach 123 about an iron clad prenup.

[facetrock]

Dude. You spent 2500 dollars on a month long trip! I dont think I could do that anywhere in the USA. Are you always like this when you take a trip to Ukraine and dont meet the right woman?

Did Mila tell you she made money on the apartment? You state it as a fact.

[Doll]

Why is it very "American" Doll? What does nationality have to do with it? Money doesn't grow on trees any place in the world last time I checked. Maybe $2000 to you means nothing...

 

no, money doesn't grow on the tree but this is about looking for wife, not shopping for TV or cars.
He said if somebody paid $ 2 000 he wanted to be sure. Come on!

[Shadow]

no, money doesn't grow on the tree but this is about looking for wife, not shopping for TV or cars.
He said if somebody paid $ 2 000 he wanted to be sure. Come on!

Its not strange he wanted to be sure. Mail Order Brides should come with a full return and refund policy. 

[Doll]

Its not strange he wanted to be sure. Mail Order Brides should come with a full return and refund policy. 

 

[AugustD]

CC, I can understand your dissatisfaction.  No matter how you try to state it the words wont sound right.

I wonder two things:  I am unsure when your ad was run though I am sure you stated in all these pages.  Not my point.  What if Mila followed your instruction exactly as you stated here, screened the women, told them your age over the phone and then you had no one that qualified or was interested in meeting a 64 year old man.  Would this have made your trip successful?  Would Mila have then earned her $120 (which seems paltry really).

Second question:  You knew the fee for Mila's translation per hour prior.  You knew she was translating for you.  Why were you floored by receiving a bill?  If there is an hourly fee and there is a number, even I can do the division and do not need it itemized. AND with you being such a stickler for details (giving suggestions how to improve an apartment I have no intention of staying again for example) why did you not clarify with her that you had no intentions of paying her for people she did not pre-qualify?  Was it because you wanted to meet them anyway?  Were you unaware her "translator meter" was running during this time?

Frankly I can see dissatisfaction with her service and I can see stating it but to the depths this has gone?  Especially after you cut her fees in half because of your dissatisfaction.

I think you are correct.  At a bus terminal is not time to give an invoice.  I also believe at receipt of an invoice after services have been long rendered is not a time to announce you are not paying full price.  You could have made that clear before the fees then she could have decided whether to help you at all or not.  

As far as the ad...Mila probably should not have tried to give you positive result. She should have screened the women on the phone, told them your age, and let them all say no.  I am thinking after she has been dragged through the mud on this one, she is going to handle the next man that is unrealistic in his expectations differently.

[Faux Pas]

Its not strange he wanted to be sure. Mail Order Brides should come with a full return and refund policy. 

Shadow, thats not very fair. No where has CCowboy eluded to Mail Order Brides or that they should come with return and refund policy. Thats a niggardly cast on his character especially with this group and in this forum. I have come to expect it from Doll but you, an often voice of reason, I am disappointed.

When one is looking for a wife every trip is an investment and for those that think money spent isn't important, aren't being very realistic. FWIW

[Gator]

CC,

From what I scanned from your report, your major disappointment seems to be the low number of UW you met where the interest in each other might be mutual.

I don't think the problem is your age.  I don't think it is Mila.

The problem is your target age, and perhaps this concept of newpaper ads (something I have never tried).

You and I are the same age.  I came through Dnepro and Kharkov in 2006 and worked with agencies (Cindy primarily) and FreePersonals.  I concentrated totally on women 40 or older.  

I met many, many attractive and interesting and educated women over 12 days.  If I had a free afternoon, I would drop by the agency office, glance through the catalog, and select 2-3 women for the agency to arrange a short  meeting.  Most would come with a notice as short as 2 hours.  A few declined because of my age.

There were literally dozens more in catalogs whom I did not contact.  In other words, it was a candy store.

The result:  4-5 women were fine enough to have explored  starting an exclusive relationship IF[/b] they lived in America.  


If I were to start a long-distance relationship, I had an outstanding candidate,  a 41-yo Cossack who I dated previously.  After kicking myself for not recognizing that fact,  I went back to her and renewed that relationship.  That story is here with photos:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3538.0

If I had not known the Cossack, I am sure that I would have made another trip to Dnepro and kharkiv and somehow started a relationship with one of those I met.  

So CC, keep trying, but focus on older women and meet as many as possible.

[Gator]

Doll,

I expect you to say my approach was like shopping.  It is except for one major difference, price is not discussed.  Why?  RW are priceless.   

[Shadow]

Shadow, thats not very fair.

When one is looking for a wife every trip is an investment and for those that think money spent isn't important, aren't being very realistic. FWIW

FP, I understand the reasoning of CC, and that he expected a lot more from the trip than what he got out of it.
However if you want to be sure that you will meet at least one woman that could be a good partner on your trip, going there on a blind ad campaign is not the thing to do.
CC could vastly improve his chances if he would try to communicate with women before making his trip, that would also take out any uncertainty about the ad selection process.

Right now he comes across as a guy who feels that if he spends $2000 on buying a ticket and going to Ukraine the women should all fight for the chance of being his wife.
I am pretty sure that it is not the correct picture, as most people are not as they seem once they get pushed in to a box and labeled.
He might just have used the wrong strategy and expected more of it, and part of his disappointment is in mistakes Mila made.

[CCowboy]

I appreciate the mostly civil replies, especially from Ravens9273.  I will respond randomly.  The rental market in Dnepro is much different than Kharkov, just as it would be different in Sevastopol, Yalta, and Kiev.  I paid $35/day for a city center 1 room apartment.  Not as nice as the one Mila got for me and not as nice as any other apartment I've rented in Kharkov.  For whatever reason, there aren't as many rentals in Dnepro as Kharkov.  Supply and demand.

Yes, spending $2500 for a month in Ukraine is a bargain compared to the U.S.  Two years ago I spent $4500 for 3 weeks on Maui.  But I was on vacation on Maui and I wasn't on vacation in Kharkov.  No, Mila did not tell me if she made money on the apartment nor did I ask.  But it is common knowledge that apartment owners pay a fee to agencies for renting their apartments.  Why else would they be in business?  Mila is a one person agency and is entitled to the same fee.  This is why I've never worked with apartment agencies and mainly a translator.  I want the person I'm working with to make the apartment fee.

Everyone can continue to speculate about the ad.  I don't know what the ad said, word for word.  Only Mila does and only she can post the ad for all to scrutinize.  Also, only Mila knows what transpired when a woman called.  Why is it that each time I asked Mila something about the women, she had no information other than her age?  I specifically asked Mila if she thought I was reasonable in my expectations.  She said I was.  Most everyone here seems to think I shouldn't be interested or meeting a woman younger than 45.  Mila is the pro.  So, why did she introduced me to a 30 y.o. woman with a 7 y.o. child?  Why did she have a 34 y.o. woman travel 5 hours to meet a 64 y.o. man?  Only Mila knows.  

As far as a woman's height and weight.  Have you ever looked on Flirt or Loveplanet or one of the other sites?  On single sites in the U.S.?  They all ask for a person's height and weight.  When I did the previous ad campaign, the one without my age listed, each woman was asked about height, weight, school-aged children, wanting to have a child, if they smoked, etc.  I met several woman from that ad and before meeting them, I knew the above information.  Some I was not interested beyond the first meeting, but two I was.  One was 34 and the other 40.  For personal reasons, I chose to continue with the 40 y.o.  I made 3 more trips to visit her but as has already been posted, things didn't work out.  The point being, I knew basic information about the women and my basic information was available to them, including my age.  

I was not part of the phone call so I don't know exactly what was said.  I also didn't know if they were a DDG beauty queeen, and I didn't ask.  We met sight unseen.  That is what I asked Mila to do and that is what Mila did not do.  They were simple questions to help me decide if I wanted to meet he woman.  Mila had ample information about me to tell the woman had she asked.  And yes, I would have rather not met any of the women from the ad Mila arranged for me to meet, but then Mila would also not be able to earn translation fees.  So, there was a conflict of interest and despite what people conclude, Mila arranged meetings for me with women that did not meet the criteria WE had discussed.

So Ravens9273, I agree with you that ultimately the responsibility of the ad was mine.  I should have never allowed it to be placed without my approval, regardless of what the ad said.  Had I done that, then I'd be responsible for women who responded.  I have acknowledged this before.  On the other hand, Mila was instructed to ask certain questions to help me decide if i\I want to meet the woman, and she had information about me that a woman could ask.  That was 100% Mila's responsibility and she failed to do it.  The result was a disasterous ad campaign.  The personal meetings were a different matter.  It's almost 100% unanimous that a 34 y.o. woman shouldn't be meeting a 64 y.o. man.  So, why did I?  The meeting with Larisa was great and I think Wyoming Mike would agree she is a very fine woman.  I still feel the last woman, the one with the successful doll and costume designing business, had no reason or motivation to leave her 24 and 22 y.o. daughters she was working with and marry a foreigner and move to another country.  Why Mila introduced me to these women only Mila knows and she's been silent on these matters.

There is really nothing more that I have to say regarding my experience with Mila.  Everyone is free to form their own conclusions, but I think everything that needs to be said, has been said.  I have no interest to continue to be part of this trip report, which began as AZ1's.  What I have learned is that it's best not to make trip reports, especially if it has negative comments regarding a member of Mila's high regard.  How can I have the audacity to speak negatively about one of RWD's revered members?  In the future, I will keep things to myself and adhere to the motto: Caveat Emptor...Let The Buyer Beware.  I had nothing to gain by writing the trip report but I've certainly learned that for some people, it is nothing more than entertainment.  CC        

          

[Admin]

What I have learned is that it's best not to make trip reports, especially if it has negative comments regarding a member of Mila's high regard.  How can I have the audacity to speak negatively about one of RWD's revered members?  In the future, I will keep things to myself and adhere to the motto: Caveat Emptor...Let The Buyer Beware.  I had nothing to gain by writing the trip report but I've certainly learned that for some people, it is nothing more than entertainment.  CC

CC,

I hope with time you might rethink your position. There is an untitled category of member here at RWD whom I hold in the highest regard. It is those that offer something to our community, with gaining little or nothing in return. The contribution of a TR is normally among those. While we occasionally see a TR that seems more for personal self-aggrandization or the reverse - to vilify someone who did not meet expectations - yours was, IMO, neither of those.

The simple facts are that fiscal transactions are going to be fraught with misunderstandings - particularly in an area so personal as international dating and romance.

My hope is that everyone reading your TR has learned something valuable. Sometimes the 'take-aways' are positives and help us chart our course with those things we want to emulate. Sometimes the take-aways result is staking out potholes in the road that others experienced so as to avoid them ourselves.

I, for one, do not think ill of you or Az1 or of Mila. There seems to be room for improvement on all counts - and that is just normal.

Anyway - just a few thoughts borne of a VERY quick skim of the report.

- Dan

[SMS60]

And the moral of the story is:  

If you want something done to your satisfication you do it yourself.