How fat is too fat?

[ladyR]

LadyR- could you say the word TOO DRUNK or too many drugs in a sentence with the words your partner? I understand what you are saying in principal but I have known many RW who left their partner because he was an alcoholic (too drunk). Most people will tolerate only so much of one thing and then it is TOO MUCH. Too much drinking, too much cheating, too ...

I think my decision in these sad and unfortunate cases will be based on the situation and on the stage we are in. Speaking about "stages" I mean: "initial selection (rose glasses, chemistry, inspiration, bells and whistles etc.) - acceptance of the partner (now we can see more clear who is near us and decide if we "take" this person or not" )- building something together (marriage, children, family life - actually on this stage real work starts). I'm not against "initial" selection process and I understand completely that we all have our "too much".  Actually I even have my "too little" choice criteria Of course it is height .

But I think that after we start to build something (3 stage), thinking about your partner like: "Ok, now she is 15% more of her initial weight (I can tolerate this), she smiled to me 3 times (I expected 4 - will think about), she cooked "unhealthy" food for me (already too much or not - that's the question) etc.  - it's just "alien" logic for me. And now I have experience how to distinguish persons like this at the 2 stage

[Taz]

so you just confirmed what i said, women dress up to get attention;
while getting a mate may be 1 of the reasons they want attention, it is not the only reason; why do you think married women dress up then, they already have a mate.
They may also dress up to get jealousy of other women(co-workers or friends), its quite common, which is also attention.
Or they dress-up to gain some kind of advantage, a guy is more likely to do what a beautiful woman wants him to, it doesnt mean she wants him as a mate; she just wants something from him and dressing up is a way to enhance beauty
or like i said before, they just dress up to get attention just for the sake of attention and nothing more.

Quite honestly this is what I hate about these boards. People think everything is written in absolutes. OF COURSE THERE ARE USUALLY MORE THAN 1 REASON TO DO ANYTHING! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Writing qualifiers is a total waste of time every time you right something.

I know the other things you wrote Aloe already. The primary reason they dress up is a biological one, to gain the attention of the opposite sex. Without reproduction, all the other things are just frosting on an empty cake. Once the biological imperative has been met, then the other ones can have greater prominence. The biological imperative of the human race (mankind) is to procreate (reproduce). Unless that need is taken care of, nothing else really matters as our species will eventually die. Surely you can understand that this is THE #1 priority?

Based on your argument, women are simply vain, calculating (rashotliva na ruskom) and manipulative. That is what drives them... I prefer to think the best about them, that they want a family, not just to be vain, calculating and manipulative as you've portrayed them.

[Taz]

But I think that after we start to build something (3 stage), thinking about your partner like: "Ok, now she is 15% more of her initial weight (I can tolerate this), she smiled to me 3 times (I expected 4 - will think about), she cooked "unhealthy" food for me (already too much or not - that's the question) etc.  - it's just "alien" logic for me. And now I have experience how to distinguish persons like this at the 2 stage

I understand the stages but you miss the point. Gaining a lot of weight is totally different. It has a health aspect. It is a very harmful issue that has serious health consequence if not stopped. To associate gaining massive amounts of weight with how many times she smiled is ludicrous. It can be as dangerous being an alcoholic. It increases your risk of heart attack. It is considered one of the 7 deadly sins (gluttony). It is not a simple matter of physical appearance. So if you want to compare a life threatening issue such as obesity with how many time someone smiles, then you really don't understand the issue.

[Ade]

I know the other things you wrote Aloe already. The primary reason they dress up is a biological one, to gain the attention of the opposite sex. Without reproduction, all the other things are just frosting on an empty cake. Once the biological imperative has been met, then the other ones can have greater prominence. The biological imperative of the human race (mankind) is to procreate (reproduce). Unless that need is taken care of, nothing else really matters as our species will eventually die. Surely you can understand that this is THE #1 priority?

Admittedly, our genetic drives are quite powerful still but Taz, you are forgetting that we are no longer animals driven entirely by instinct.

[Blues Fairy]

Based on your argument, women are simply vain, calculating (rashotliva na ruskom) and manipulative. That is what drives them...

Actually in today's society, dressing up has more to do with social standing than all the reasons discussed previously.  We put on nice clothes to enhance other people's perception of our social status and please don't tell me that it translates, again, into attracting males.  We, as a species, have come a little farther than that stage.  

As for status perceptions, you really cannot say that it has anything to do with calculation and manipulation since these drives are almost as ancient as sexual attraction.

[Taz]

Jaded- Here we go again. Did I say anywhere I am talking in absolutes? Where are still motivated by biological imperatives. These developed for a reason. Despite the fact we supposedly live in a cultured civilization, they still affect people. The drive to reproduce is one of our strongest of all drives. After eating and and drinking, it is one of our strongest, if not the strongest.

Think about it on a more basic level. Why do we want to be attractive to our potential mate? Initially so that we can even find a mate. So they will want to be with us, take care of us AND want to reproduce with us!

BF - it all comes down to reproduction no matter how you slice it. Higher status usually equates to a better standard of living which normally gives offspring a better chance of survival. Sure there are other benefits but in the grand scheme of things reproduction is the name of the game from a biological perspective. This is why there is a problem in the Catholic church with priests. They can't sublimate their desire to reproduce forever.

Time and again, people who ignore this basic biological programming are surprised to learn who much affect it has. I'm sure you've heard of the 7 year itch? Seems that quite a few people seemed to cheat after being together for about 7 years. Sociologists did research and they found out that typically 7 years was the amount of time to have a relationship long enough for offspring to result and be old enough to have a good chance of survival with only one parent. In this case one partner looked outside the current relationship for another partner. It is quite frequent in history and still occurs today. Does it happen to everyone, of course some one of you will think I am talking about ALL relationship or ALL people. Sure you can repress urges but at some point they typically will reemerge.

Our bodies were wired so that sex feels pleasurable to (most of) us. As a result we want to engage in it. If you follow the principle of evolution, it has a very good reason for being pleasurable...so we will engage in it more often thereby increasing the odds of the continued existence of mankind. More sex = typically more children. More variety of partner (7 year each) the greater the odd of diversification of the species thereby increasing the odds of that one of the unique variants of these matings will survive.

Many people in this world give into their baser instincts and this is far more common the less stable the world/culture/country is. Stability promotes thinking long term. Instability encourages living in the moment and not worrying about the future.

BF - people also put on nice clothes to attract a partner as well as keep their partner interested. Why do women buy lingerie? Does that show their status or does it more likely encourage their partners to mate with them? Again you folks are somewhat myopic. Dressing up doesn't just apply to going out on the town. Women dress up in the bedroom too.

I've realized that most of you can only see one side of any argument. I typically see both sides even if I CHOOSE to only promote one here. It may not even by MY particular viewpoint just one I choose to debate. It is very interesting to see how inflexible many of you are. Many of you couldn't even concede a general point such as "you will some day". Someone here will say invariably something like "according to my religion..."

AramisLux is quite right when he wrote about how many of you need to have a qualifier with everything that is said. No where did I ever say that something is the ONLY REASON! There are almost always MANY reasons but there will always be PRIMARY reasons. I am sure there are many reasons you married or where attracted to your partner. Obviously there were primary reasons why you married them. Through time those reasons that you were attracted to them changed and now you stay with them for different reasons.

The vast majority of people are physically attracted to their partners and that is one of the reasons they are together. Physical attraction can be a wide range of things, not just slender or tall. It can ever be that they have curly hair. For me physical attraction is not enough on its own to sustain a relationship nor do I want a relationship to be totally devoid of physical attraction.  I want emotional, physical and intellectual attraction. I don't think I am different than most of you in this respect. Of course some of the saints on the board may argue differently. One thing I am definitely not is a hypocrite!

[OlgaH]

I've realized that most of you can only see one side of any argument. I typically see both sides even if I CHOOSE to only promote one here. It may not even by MY particular viewpoint just one I choose to debate. It is very interesting to see how inflexible many of you are. Many of you couldn't even concede a general point such as "you will some day". Someone here will say invariably something like "according to my religion..."

How people can see your other side if you CHOOSE to promote only one your side?

You choose just one side to promote and  debate and people see only one your side and debate, and after you accuse people in their inflexibility. May be you should be more flexible and show all your sides  at once 

[Blues Fairy]

BF - it all comes down to reproduction no matter how you slice it.

I've realized that most of you can only see one side of any argument.

 
Chill out man.

BTW I normally buy super-comfy lingerie that helps my clothes sit nicer, and once I'm in the bedroom the lingerie usually comes off very quickly.    As for dressing up, I have a developed aesthetic sense and cater to it when choosing clothes.  I would dress up even if nobody except the mirror ever saw me.

[Ade]

Jaded- Here we go again. Did I say anywhere I am talking in absolutes?

Seriously, you need to qualify your statements otherwise how on earth are people to know what the hell you are talking about and how broad your brush strokes are? And dude, learn to be concise.

And yes, the reproductive imperative is still there but what I got of all that waffle of yours is that you think it always overrides all other concerns.

And btw, love your condescension dude and from your posts I'm not at all surprised that you're getting wife #3 and will be even less surprised when I hear it's #4.

[oldernotwiser]

Actually in today's society, dressing up has more to do with social standing than all the reasons discussed previously.  We put on nice clothes to enhance other people's perception of our social status and please don't tell me that it translates, again, into attracting males.

Blues Fairy

Most of the time I agree with what you write, (I usually just read a lot and post seldom, maybe this will change), however, I am not sure I agree with this.  I think there maybe some cultural differences here also.  Day to day in the United States many people don't dress up if they are not working, no matter there social standing.  

[Ade]

The vast majority of people are physically attracted to their partners and that is one of the reasons they are together. Physical attraction can be a wide range of things, not just slender or tall. It can ever be that they have curly hair. For me physical attraction is not enough on its own to sustain a relationship nor do I want a relationship to be totally devoid of physical attraction.  I want emotional, physical and intellectual attraction. I don't think I am different than most of you in this respect. Of course some of the saints on the board may argue differently. One thing I am definitely not is a hypocrite!

The point you seem to miss is that physical, emotional and intellectual attraction are inseparable when you deeply and truly love someone so you don't become less attracted to your partner when they gain weight. My guess is that you have never experienced such a state of mind that's why you have such a hard time understanding those of us that have the opposing viewpoint. And yes, I fully understand yours; I've been with fat women that I didn't find very attractive, but then again, I wasn't in love with them either.

[phantom]

[]
No, that's natural. No one here is saying that how a person looks doesn't play a big part in the initial attraction; but looks alone will not sustain a long term relationship.
[/quote]

I agree with that totally, as I've gotten to some ladies, that were total cold fish or mean as a hornet.  Myself, I think lady R is very cute.  

[ladyR]

My guess is that you have never experienced such a state of mind that's why you have such a hard time understanding those of us that have the opposing viewpoint.

Exactly.

Myself, I think lady R is very cute.

Thank you, and also I'm 5.6 ft with 116.6 lbs now - rather standard . That's why I'm thinking about gaining 20-30 lbs not to attract a persons with my former fiance's (and Taz) state of mind, who are looking for coffemachines with functional characteristics instead of people in future . Or maybe I'll include the question about "partner who will gain weight" into my "red flags" checklist .

[phantom]

You're very welcome.  Your height is good, like the desription and I also agree with you.  20-30 lbs isn't bad, don't throw you over, with what you weigh, IMO.

[Taz]

Seriously, you need to qualify your statements otherwise how on earth are people to know what the hell you are talking about and how broad your brush strokes are? And dude, learn to be concise.

And yes, the reproductive imperative is still there but what I got of all that waffle of yours is that you think it always overrides all other concerns.

And btw, love your condescension dude and from your posts I'm not at all surprised that you're getting wife #3 and will be even less surprised when I hear it's #4.

Shall we start with the direct personal attacks? As they say, get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat...

You don't know anything about me beyond what I post here so why don't YOU follow your OWN advice and qualify for your own llpostatements regarding your last snide remark/attack on me. I tend to be only condescending when repeatedly attacked. I tend to fight fire with fire if you know what I mean or do I need to qualify that for you too?

As for being concise, I can easily do it but apparently few people understand the nuances debate unless you spell it out for them. If you are continually qualifying your statements, how concise can you be. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

As for what side of an issue I am on, it doesn't really matter. To truly understand the issue it helps to understand more than one side. So what does it matter what side I am on unless you are trying to "win". I am not trying to win but better understand viewpoints of various people assuming they portray them accurately.

Just for the record, I have never wished ill will upon anyone on this board or failure of any kind. While I may not agree that their approach is the best one, I still wish them success. Your last statement crosses a line that I don't think anybody should cross. If you want me to do the same with you just say so. You know nothing about my marriages or the situation surrounding their demise. So I would advise you to keep your mouth closed about things you know nothing about regarding my life. If you took the time to read the most of what I've read beyond the few threads the last few weeks you might have a better understanding of me but even then it would be be very limited. You however would still appear smug and presumptious.

[facetrock]

   I really believe obesity is one of the leading causes of divorce in America but is usually blamed on infidelity which is the result when one partner looses their attraction to the other. You never hear it mentioned because it is not politically correct. Almost all the divorces I have known about where I live have been because of obesity. One of the partners over the years turned into a bloated toad. But you dont want to tell people that or a divorce judge. You dont want to go into court and tell the judge to take a good look at my cow bitch wife. But most men would love to.
  When you marry, most want their wife or husband to be their best friend, lover and companion. When the physical attraction is gone from a relationship, the relationship in my opinion is over. How many times have you people heard of a marriage ending because someone said they made the mistake of marrying their best friend? Thats all you have left when your spouse is no longer attractive to you. If the other partner is in good shape they know they can end the marriage and do alot better and personally I dont blame them. Marriage is hard enough for people that are physically attracted to each other. But if one partner doesnt care enough to even try to stay in good shape it says little for their character.
 In our society we as men and women are now trained that we should look into a persons soul and see their inner beauty. Bullsh!t. We are a human animal and want to mate with the best possible female or one we are really attracted too.
  I am 6 feet 2 inches and weigh 205 pounds. When I see a woman that is 6 inches shorter and weighs 60 pounds more than me( and that is a common site these days) my dick wont get hard no matter how great her personality is.

[facetrock]

  Lady R. You think 5 feet 6 and weighing 116 is standard!!!!  Where I live that is one smokin hot body. 5 feet 6 and weighing 170 or 180 is far more common here in the heartland. But I am sorry for admiring your body and am being shallow for not considering your celluite blessed co females.

[Ade]

Shall we start with the direct personal attacks? As they say, get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat...

You don't know anything about me beyond what I post here so why don't YOU follow your OWN advice and qualify for your own llpostatements regarding your last snide remark/attack on me. I tend to be only condescending when repeatedly attacked. I tend to fight fire with fire if you know what I mean or do I need to qualify that for you too?

Interesting that you consider that direct observation and opinion of mine to be a "snide attack". Please read what I said again. Given what you've written in your last few threads and how you've written it, I'm really not surprised that you're on #3 and would bet on a #4 too. 

As for being concise, I can easily do it but apparently few people understand the nuances debate unless you spell it out for them. If you are continually qualifying your statements, how concise can you be. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

Lots of people here manage to be concise, informative and unambiguous. You, on the other hand, waffle.

As for what side of an issue I am on, it doesn't really matter. To truly understand the issue it helps to understand more than one side. So what does it matter what side I am on unless you are trying to "win". I am not trying to win but better understand viewpoints of various people assuming they portray them accurately.

I've been on "your side" and I understand you not finding an overweight woman attractive. You obviously haven't been on "my side" though where weight is mainly irrelevant as far as physical attraction towards a loved one goes and that's why you can't understand it.

Just for the record, I have never wished ill will upon anyone on this board or failure of any kind. While I may not agree that their approach is the best one, I still wish them success. Your last statement crosses a line that I don't think anybody should cross.

Again read what I said, did I wish this on you? No, I stated an opinion based on your posts and the way you express yourself. You see, even though I'd forgive most people for missing a point of yours because it was coated in so much waffle you have no such excuse.

If you want me to do the same with you just say so. You know nothing about my marriages or the situation surrounding their demise. So I would advise you to keep your mouth closed about things you know nothing about regarding my life. If you took the time to read the most of what I've read beyond the few threads the last few weeks you might have a better understanding of me but even then it would be be very limited. You however would still appear smug and presumptious.

[Taz]

As some other posters have said in similar ways, you think your limited observation of what I've written here allow you to understand me then we should add judgmental to my previous observations of you with respect to your smugness and presumptuousness. How may times have you been married? Is this your first RW/UW?

As for your comments let's just agree to disagree. I don't think many people think I've waffled but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. While I may not agree with what people have to say, if they are a USC, I did my service defending their right to say it.

[facetrock]

   I see there are nine votes that say weight doesnt matter up to a ton. Well whoever voted that way makes me wonder why they would be going to the FSU, to the land of in shape women. If they dont care about weight the pickins here are almost unlimited, they most likely already live in fat chick heaven. I think thats what 40 years of feminism has done to men. Its made them try to convince themselves to believe a bunch of garbage they know deep down is a bunch of lies.
  Its amazing though how the fat chicks will still go after the guy with the good body. I guess 40 years of feminism cant yet compete with 200 thousand years of human evolution.

[Taz]

I think some women might have voted that way and not some men. You could ask a similar question of women in general how poor would the man have to be before they left him...   

Will love conquer all if the obese women ate all the food and the man has no $$$ left to buy any??? 

Let's see how long love will survive then. Love conquers all!!! It worked for Gandhi didn't it!

[Ade]

  I see there are nine votes that say weight doesnt matter up to a ton.

I guess you didn't read the thread, right? You know, this thread, the one where no one refutes that weight and looks do play a part in the initial attraction between people. 

Well whoever voted that way makes me wonder why they would be going to the FSU, to the land of in shape women. If they dont care about weight the pickins here are almost unlimited, they most likely already live in fat chick heaven. I think thats what 40 years of feminism has done to men. Its made them try to convince themselves to believe a bunch of garbage they know deep down is a bunch of lies.
  Its amazing though how the fat chicks will still go after the guy with the good body. I guess 40 years of feminism cant yet compete with 200 thousand years of human evolution.

  Damn, it amazes me the absolute crap that floats through some people's minds.

[Sculpto]

  I see there are nine votes that say weight doesnt matter up to a ton. Well whoever voted that way makes me wonder why they would be going to the FSU, to the land of in shape women. If they dont care about weight the pickins here are almost unlimited, they most likely already live in fat chick heaven. I think thats what 40 years of feminism has done to men. Its made them try to convince themselves to believe a bunch of garbage they know deep down is a bunch of lies.
  Its amazing though how the fat chicks will still go after the guy with the good body. I guess 40 years of feminism cant yet compete with 200 thousand years of human evolution.

LOL.. some guys like fat women.. "more cushion for the pushin"

[Ade]

As some other posters have said in similar ways, you think your limited observation of what I've written here allow you to understand me then we should add judgmental to my previous observations of you with respect to your smugness and presumptuousness.

I don't even pretend to understand you fully. But there's no need to in order to come to some conclusions. Look how many you've drawn and you know me not one whit.

How may times have you been married?

Once for 10 years to a Norwegian.

Is this your first RW/UW?

Irrelevant. Maybe American men come from such a weird culture that they find FSUW almost alien but after living in 3 foreign countries for the past 20 years I can't say that I see essential difference between FSUW and any of the other women I've come across.

As for your comments let's just agree to disagree. I don't think many people think I've waffled but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. While I may not agree with what people have to say, if they are a USC, I did my service defending their right to say it.

Seriously dude, take a look at, um, this post of yours for instance; http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9783.msg190024#msg190024  You really don't see the redundancy and rambling there?

[facetrock]

  Yup a lot of crap going through my head. There must be something wrong with me since I am not physically attracted to fat chicks. I am in shape so why cant I have a woman in shape? She doesnt have to have model type looks but does have to have a good body. But now, in western society that is like asking for the secrets to the holy grail. You are considered shallow and vain for desiring so much from a woman.
  I cannot pretend to be physically attracted to a woman.

  If you have no problem being physically attracted to fat chicks more power to you. In fact you are a lucky man if you are. You have many to chose from locally. The sky or buffet line is the limit. To each his own. But for me it just doesnt work.
  
  Sorry for being truthful and shallow thinking like the vast majority of men on earth.