Re: Wife split!

[KenC]

I do not blame men of wealth (like Ambach, if we are to believe what he reports here) for protecting their life's accumulation of assets via a prenuptial agreement.  However, no matter how one "sugar coats" the issue, a prenuptial will always send the concept that he is not 100% committed to the marriage.  It will always be viewed as some sort of fence sitting.

But this is also a two edged sword.  The man might not be 100% committed to the marriage or at least 100% assured in his future wife's sense of fairness, but should she refuse to enter into a fair prenuptial agreement, what message is she sending?  Her refusal could easily be interpreted as that her motivation is the man's money.

Prenuptial agreements are a test of commitment for both sides.  The best of both worlds is as it panned out with Lena and I.  She offered to sign any prenuptial agreement I would want and I refused the offer.  As it turned out, we were both sincere in our commitment to each other and in the end, we were both honorable to that commitment.

Balancing commitment and a logical need for future protection is a very sticky wicket.  If the couples love and the dedication to each other is strong enough, they will survive this hurdle.  If not, maybe they should not contemplate marriage.
KenC

[ambach123]

The concept of pre nuptial agreement is well accepted by all states, some 33 states accept it as a matter of law, agreeing to a Uniform code.

It is quite simple, the property of the parties before the  marriage, as well as any money earned from that property such as a business, is considered separate property. It is never co-mingled. It is upheld by courts in every state.

What is not upheld are issues other than division of property ( and in some states alimony). Therefore a prenup should be simple and must address the key issue and nothing else.

With regard to the women accepting, all the women I talked to did not seem to have any problems with it. They understood the need for it, and they were glad that they were marrying someone who had any assets, as vast majority of Americans have no or very minimal assets, except their homes, which these days are under water.
Marriages can break down even with the best of intentions.
This is NOT an issue I encountered with any of the women. Only one of them asked if I would help her out, starting a new life in USA, if marriage broke down, and I agreed.

[Doll]

Ken, right now there is a thread on RW forum about prenuptial agreements.
The OP was offered the one that says that all the marital property is not the subject to split. The girl is young and wants the kids. Can we blame her for thinking hard over it? No.

[KenC]

Ambach,
As usual, you are over simplifying things.  It is not as black and white as you claim here.  If you would like to discuss prenuptial agreements, maybe you should start a new thread and not hijack this one.
KenC

[Gator]

I don't know what state you are in, but in a community property state like California, the above statement, while true in an practical sense, is entirely false when it comes to the law.  Under community property law, all income is earned by the couple as a community and the benefits of that income to not accrue to one partner more than the other.

The thinking behind this is that while one party may leave for the office and generate a paycheck, the other supports him/her in effort and allows him/her to be productive and perhaps sacrifices his/her own career opportunities to be in that support role.

Exactly. 

Without a prenup, the appreciation in value of any individually owned asset is split 50-50 at divorce provided the asset was never comingled.  With a prenup, theoretically the appreciation can be retained by the individual if the asset was disclosed at the time the prenup was executed. 

Notwithstanding a prenup, a judge will not sanction a husband  throwing a wife on the street with no reasonable means of support.  Also, 50-50 is the starting point for deliberations and the husband's percentage usually goes down.

[Muddy]

I do not blame men of wealth (like Ambach, if we are to believe what he reports here) for protecting their life's accumulation of assets via a prenuptial agreement.  However, no matter how one "sugar coats" the issue, a prenuptial will always send the concept that he is not 100% committed to the marriage.  It will always be viewed as some sort of fence sitting.

KenC

Not "always", that is your problem Kenny, thats your problem.

[Ronnie]

As to prenuptials, one should always remember that where one party is a non citizen and therefore unfamiliar with American customs, laws, etc., it may be difficult to make the agreement stand up.  All effort should be taken to be certain that the non citizen has legal counsel at least as competent as the citizen's own counsel and that adequate "thinking" time is given before the signing and before the wedding, lest duress be used as a means of breaking the agreement.

In so many ways, the risk of marrying a foreigner is much higher than marrying a citizen.  One must make certain the rewards justify such risk.

[Doll]

In so many ways, the risk of marrying a foreigner is much higher than marrying a citizen.  One must make certain the rewards justify such risk.

Why is it higher? It is higher for the foreigner to marry an AM- ten times higher, you are perfectly aware of it, guys.

[Muddy]

In so many ways, the risk of marrying a foreigner is much higher than marrying a citizen.  One must make certain the rewards justify such risk.

I agree
After many trips, meetings many girls, and spending so much time here reading about all the problems AM have with RW I thihkn there are more good girls here than the FSU.
Too many problem with FSU girls

[Misha]

I agree
After many trips, meetings many girls, and spending so much time here reading about all the problems AM have with RW I thihkn there are more good girls here than the FSU.
Too many problem with FSU girls

The time that I have spent in Russia has shown me quite the opposite: there are many decent, good and kind women in Russia, as there are in Canada. Sadly, these are not the women that many men going to the FSU will not meet.

[Ronnie]

Muddy,
I did not mean my statement about risk to be an indictment of the women themselves.  Just that the risks are greater and the consequences harsher if things go wrong.  Note that I used the term "foreigner" meaning some from any other country and of either gender.

[kievstar]

Marry in your league and no risk.  Goes for the women and men.  Good women everywhere including agencies.  Men who trade up rarely win unless you give her children which makes her less desirable for other men to marry.

[Boethius]

Boethius, I don't know what jurisdiction you live in Canada. But, it is clearly stated in Canadian Family Law that All joint Assets are to be split 50/50 upon breakdown of a Martial or Common Law Relationship. Just because you have a Business, House, Bank Account, Vehicle or Stamp Collection in your name doesn't mean that it isn't a Joint Asset. It is on Separation Day. The one exception might be an inheritance and even that becomes pretty cloudy as any relationship ages. Whatever you bring into a relationship quickly becomes hers and visa versa, in the eye of the Courts.

Family law varies from province to province.  In all common law jurisdictions (all provinces other than Quebec), assets acquired during the marriage are split 50/50.  Assets accumulated before marriage are not; Only the increase in value is split 50/50.  Inherited assets and gifts from parents to one spouse are exempt.  However, increases in such assets are also split.

In most Canadian jurisdictions, a matrimonial home acquired by one spouse before the marriage also has an exempt point (the fair market value before marriage), although typically, if there are children, the home will not be sold.  Ontario exempts the matrimonial home, and its value is split 50/50 no matter when it was acquired.

You are absolutely incorrect about what is whose in the eyes of the court.  The presumption is assets were acquired during the marriage.  But this is usually easily rebutted, particularly in the case of a business. 

Courts interpret the provincial legislation which governs division of property.  Where you will have problems is usually in long term marriages where there has been a commingling of assets, and no one can prove where the source of income came from.  But, that is more and more rare these days.  Most property disputes are about valuations coming into the marriage and on the date of separation, not on who owned what.  And, more disputes are about custody and access than about the division of property.

Prenups in Canada do not necessarily exempt all property.   Typically, there is an "escalation" clause, meaning a spouse will get a share of assets brought into the marriage on separation, but it is usually lesser than the acts governing the division of matrimonial property specify (i.e. - not 50/50).

What is this for?

It is a form filed by a foreign born widow of an American citizen.  The lawyer was saying the OP was lucky his wife did not have him killed.

[ECOCKS]

Hey Boethius! Wondered where you went.

[MarkLeftTX]

Wow, I am away for a few months, and look what I find... troll droppings...

I may be wrong... but, I have to say it... This smacks of a fake, to me...

Guy comes on here... makes five posts... never heard of him before, or since... and he has a story that seems really weird...

We stayed in contact and 4 years ago I brought her here on a K1 visa... My wife got her 10 year green card a month and a half ago. ... Then one day I was paying bills and looked at my bank accounts - one account showed a money transfer for $125,000.00 to a Russian Bank... I came home to talk with my wife about what she did and why? But she was gone. Bag packed jewerly gone. All my cash in the file cabinet gone. She was on her way back to Russia.

This seem odd to anyone? Why would she wait for a green card if she is moving back to Russia? "One Day" he makes the discovery, and it so happens that same day his wife takes off?

What bank transfers $125K to Russia without notifying both people on the account? Mine wouldn't, I can tell you that.

The story doesn't end there. Her and her daughter cashed a check from my business account for $9000.00.

And exactly how did she manage that? Forgery?

Then the credit cards were all maxed out. They bought lots of diamonds - $60,000.00 in jewelryy. There is no way I can ever recover any of it. We had joint accounts!!!

Buying Jewelry is one of the highest indicators of credit card fraud. Having worked for expert systems companies that designed credit card fraud systems, I can assure you that $60K worth of jewelry suddenly showing up on a credit card would instantly be flagged.

I talked with her the other day and asked her why? Quote "I'm 46 years old and with this kind of money I can have a great life in Russia. American men are stupid and if you give them good sex they will do anything. My boyfriend waited for me all this time. We are together now. You can do what you want. You were always good to me. I'm sorry."

The boyfriend waited for five years? Wow... that's some long term scam there...

Sorry, guys... this one stinks...

[Boethius]

Hey, Ed.

Mark, if she were involved in the business and had been making deposits, I could see the bank transferring funds in a joint account.  They have no liability for doing so.  Similar on the business if she had signing privileges.

The jewellery purchases would be tagged, and either security would call later, or they would decline the purchase at the point.  However, with identification and, if queried at the time of purchase, the cardholder could state these were her purchases.

On waiting five years, I knew women who waited longer to get propyskas.  

As my husband would say, "You think like a Westerner."

[JR]

I'm just shaking my head....

Has anyone here actually wire transferred that kind of money to a Russian bank?
$125,000 x-fer to a Russian bank and no government involvement? Doesn't seem likely to me. The bank didn't flag it as out of the ordinary and call the other account signature for verification?

Air has no limits on how much a check can be issued for against his business account without his notification/approval?

$60,000 in jewelry in one day and no call from the credit card company? That kind of spending was probably outside of what they normally do and should have triggered an automatic freeze. Now maybe they called the wife and she cleared it but that sounds out of the ordinary to me.

[Boethius]

I'm just shaking my head....

Has anyone here actually wire transferred that kind of money to a Russian bank?
$125,000 x-fer to a Russian bank and no government involvement? Doesn't seem likely to me. The bank didn't flag it as out of the ordinary and call the other account signature for verification?

Air has no limits on how much a check can be issued for against his business account without his notification/approval?

$60,000 in jewelry in one day and no call from the credit card company? That kind of spending was probably outside of what they normally do and should have triggered an automatic freeze. Now maybe they called the wife and she cleared it but that sounds out of the ordinary to me.

There is no government involvement on bank transfers.  A lot of money gets transferred all over the world daily.  The banks must comply with money laundering laws, but if the bank is satisfied the money is clean, there is no requirement to do anything further.

If someone has a payroll, $9000 can be peanuts.  Again, I don't think this would raise a red flag.

As for the jewellery, if I, as a cardholder, call my credit card company ahead of time and advise I'm making a large purchase, they won't flag it.  I've made purchases as high as $5000 at a time without my credit card company flagging it, and that is about $1000 higher than my normal monthly balance.

[LP]

Lmao. Some things never change...

[dobradavid]

Family law varies from province to province.  In all common law jurisdictions (all provinces other than Quebec), assets acquired during the marriage are split 50/50.  Assets accumulated before marriage are not; Only the increase in value is split 50/50.  Inherited assets and gifts from parents to one spouse are exempt.  However, increases in such assets are also split.

In Indiana - ALL assets go into the "marital pot" without a prenup. 

[dobradavid]

Let me finish this shameful event!!! First I want to tell you that I LOVED this woman with all my heart and would have done anything for her.

There isn't any law that requires her to love you as much as you loved her, sorry to say.

[dobradavid]

...and right now I am having the locks changed. Also, I will be puting in an alarm system this coming week. I only wish I knew their next step?

Only now! 

[dobradavid]

I'm thinking of flying to Russia and hiring a lawyer that has good connections with Judges. As we all know - their all corrupt. My government will do nothing for me!

I suggest you not do so (unless you want to wind up dead or held for ransom...if you really want to...there are legal firms in the US with Russian legal connections. 

[dobradavid]

You could contact www.Russian-Detective.com.

Thank you for the information and insight. 

[dobradavid]

Ambach,
Your over generalizations are comical, your conclusions are a joke and anyone who thinks all RW are alike, is retarded.
KenC

Ken,

The generalizations are NOT comical - exactly how much time have you spent outsoide the US?