I'm new here

[RussianWind]

all most of you can do is make fun of him. 

A little correction - he is making fun of himself. And no need to make more drama from it, people should learn how to laugh at themselves, it helps in most situations, you know.

Actually by his own words the girl presses him to visit her, no one normal person would wait for so long. I have an impression that if not this ultimatum, he would continue to "chat" with her for another two years and "suffer" from depression.

[groovlstk]

As evidenced from GOBs narrow minded and boring post America often suffers from a lack of cultural identity.  Early European immigrants frequently left behind whatever cultural markers and traditions they had and as the melting pot progressed that which made Euro cultures unique from region to region disappeared in the American cultural wasteland.  The onset of mass media has only made this phenomena worse.  Unfortunately the so called "normal" culture that GOB and those like him follow is restricted to driving oversized cars, shooting guns and other brainless activities.

So, along comes a guy who is part a sub culture that has sprung up rather organically and all most of you can do is make fun of him. 

The truth is, you are just showing your own immaturity and narrow mindedness and I am not afraid to say it in public.

Mark.. you will find some people here who understand you very well, most of them are not the most vocal (myself excepted) so, hang in there and we will find out the truth behind this girl and her agency and give you real advice whether or not you should visit her, and, if not, how to proceed in a more productive way than the HRB/RLM scam factory.

Here's a bulletin for you guys: Mainstream America has its flaws, you can even debate whether or not there even is such a thing as American culture. But please, please stop discussing Goth philosophy (for lack of a better word) as if it's something genuine and relevant. You're making me laugh so hard it's difficult to breath.

Most adult people are wise enough to avoid identifying themselves as belonging to a group comprised mostly of teens who wear polyester capes and cheap costume jewelry and white makeup, all the while lamenting their grave suffering when most have never even missed a meal in their lives and live with mom and dad.

To each his own, Gothman and others should live however they wish, but don't throw stones when your house is made of glass (even if the house is owned by mom & dad, technically).

[djgothman]

There's the straw... took a redneck and pompass cheerleader/soccer mom to do it.

This is my final post... no defence no more attacks... I quit

I hope you all are forced one day into the reality that is mine and live it for real.

[Vaughn]

It's "pompous".

Sorry you didn't find many cheerleaders here, dude.

Now is the time to search for airfares. Hop on it.

[RussianWind]

Despite of some critics (belive me it could be much worse) everybody wishes you luck. Otherwise nobody would react in your thread.

[Sculpto]

Told you all.. a guy came here needing help and instead of helping him with his real problem, the one he came here to seek help for... almost all of you chose to attack him on a personal level.  

Shame.

FWIW.. there are a lot of subcultures in this country that to outsiders appear abnormal.  Goth is certainly one of them.  The public face of Goth is a bunch of dressed up teenagers acting stupid.. the core of Goth, the part that innovated and nurtured the subculture, is well over 2 decades in existence and has its "stars" and heros the same as any other.  What I find sad about the response here is most of you would gladly visit another country and go out of your way to conform to cultural norms there, but, when confronted with a subculture YOU don't understand right here on your own backdoor the choice is to ridicule and insult.  

Again.

SHAME!

[Sculpto]

Oh and this is to Blues in particular..

You know.. I think you are in fact very interesting.. but in a sort of cartoon way.  I don't think you realize it, but, your utter inability to even attempt to view anything outside of the tiny little window that is your tiny little reality is in fact an exaggerated and, see above word "cartoon" cartoonish picture of the reality that is the single biggest cultural negative of PEOPLE from the FSU.  GOB and the now gone Ronnie can rant and rave all they want about old and tired social and political propaganda about Russia and Russians.. but.. many of us here have seen how utterly stubborn, for absolutely no good reason, FSU PEOPLE can be.  Scams be damned, the stubbornness is beyond aggravating and totally disrespectful of just about everything most Americans find of value.  Your performance here Blues, was in fact damn illuminating and I thank you for providing me with personal strength to deal with the same annoying and arrogant stubbornness that I occasionally experience with my woman.

Mark is a nice guy and he needed some help.  You couldn't tone it down even for a second.  Some day.. life is going to kick you right in your face Blues.. and then you will wonder why no one has any sympathy.  Bigger the tree, the harder it falls.

[JR]

Jolly,

I don't see where djgoth has ignored anything yet..

People are not like light switches so you can turn this on or turn that off.  He's obviously in a 'place' few of us here are familiar with and he certainly didn't get there overnight either.

Of course he's ignoring it. He admits to having "heard it all before" and "I didn't choose it." He's been ignoring good advice all his life.

And you're wrong, people can change overnight. VERY rare but it can and does happen. Most change is a process brought about by determination, willingness and the ability to discern what is harmful to yourself and decide to move away from it. You're right, that usaull takes time. Sometimes a lot of it. The OP has no desire to change. He likes to wallow in his self-pity. That is not the impetus for change.

[BC]

Told you all.. a guy came here needing help and instead of helping him with his real problem, the one he came here to seek help for... almost all of you chose to attack him on a personal level.  

Shame.

FWIW.. there are a lot of subcultures in this country that to outsiders appear abnormal.  Goth is certainly one of them.  The public face of Goth is a bunch of dressed up teenagers acting stupid.. the core of Goth, the part that innovated and nurtured the subculture, is well over 2 decades in existence and has its "stars" and heros the same as any other.  What I find sad about the response here is most of you would gladly visit another country and go out of your way to conform to cultural norms there, but, when confronted with a subculture YOU don't understand right here on your own backdoor the choice is to ridicule and insult.  

Again.

SHAME!

2012

Jeez, why don't you go back to your old name? Old one was easier to type..

DJ came here and after his second post had 5 or 6 posters in the chatroom for hours, others sending PM invites and others wondering whether it was time to call 911 or not.  In my book a huge response of people that cared.

Now that discourse has normalized with DJ obviously showing the ability to face critique and even throw a punch or two himself you start pulling the victim crap and puff up your chest telling us that we're insensitive..  Bull..

He's doing therapy, on his meds and looking in the mirror.  How 'bout you?

Just heading off to the airport but more later maybe.

[Vaughn]

2012,


  The guy is incapable of heeding any advice except that which he wants to hear. This is NOT a good
idea for him to exploring an int'l relationship without coming to grips with the responsibilites...

  As much as I like you, 2012, you're far too rah-rah to do this fellow any good but mislead him.

[Blues Fairy]

Oh and this is to Blues in particular..

You know.. I think you are in fact very interesting.. but in a sort of cartoon way.  I don't think you realize it, but, your utter inability to even attempt to view anything outside of the tiny little window that is your tiny little reality is in fact an exaggerated and, see above word "cartoon" cartoonish picture of the reality that is the single biggest cultural negative of PEOPLE from the FSU. 

Mark is a nice guy and he needed some help.  You couldn't tone it down even for a second.  Some day.. life is going to kick you right in your face Blues.. and then you will wonder why no one has any sympathy.  Bigger the tree, the harder it falls.

Sculpto, you are hilarious!  You just can't help it, can you.  Everything in me irritates you, and of course great evil must befall me because I'm so irritating.  The bigger the tree, eh?   Cartoonishly big and stubborn tree, yes, I like the image.  

It's also easy to see why you so ardently defend the poor 39-year-old drama king with the mind of a teenager; he's the mirror of you, isn't he?  It's yourself you are defending?

Oh one more thing; NOBODY tells anyone here to "tone it down" unless the Mods decide to do so.  Learn your manners boy.  

[Sculpto]

2012,


  The guy is incapable of heeding any advice except that which he wants to hear. This is NOT a good
idea for him to exploring an int'l relationship without coming to grips with the responsibilites...

  As much as I like you, 2012, you're far too rah-rah to do this fellow any good but mislead him.

Vaughn.. I am not suggesting that DJ should be going to Ukraine.  Check my previous posts.  There was moral support for him in the chat and with some members here.. but.. as soon as the conversation went away from the facts and delved into the psyche of Goth and how various peoples opinions of DJs chosen lifestyle would lead him to ruin, the thread became useless and merely an opportunity to ridicule him.

Also.. note I was right up front in telling him he is 99% certain in the midst of a scam.  I explained to him the specific steps he needs to take to determine if he is being scammed and what he needs to do if that proves to be the case.  I also asked him to self reflect regarding Alina's stated profile words which he claims he fullfillls, but most everyone, including myself, do not see based on how he has posted here.  Yes, the guy is in denial, but, blasting him is no way to get into his head.  I have been accused at various times of being a hammerhead.. but this time I am going to remind a lesson you all taught me.. ya catch more flies with honey..

Nevertheless, I like the guy and he deserves fair treatment here, not ridicule because he has chosen to live his life differently than most of us.

For the record.. I find Goth posers quite boring and self absorbed.. my advice to them is the same as it is Ambach.. get off your butt and go do something for someone else in a place where people have it a lot harder than you do (or think you do) and after that if you still want to cry about your misery at least then you know how much worse it could be.

[ECOCKS]

Well, so much for reality checks.

[Sculpto]

2012

Jeez, why don't you go back to your old name? Old one was easier to type..

DJ came here and after his second post had 5 or 6 posters in the chatroom for hours, others sending PM invites and others wondering whether it was time to call 911 or not.  In my book a huge response of people that cared.

Now that discourse has normalized with DJ obviously showing the ability to face critique and even throw a punch or two himself you start pulling the victim crap and puff up your chest telling us that we're insensitive..  Bull..

He's doing therapy, on his meds and looking in the mirror.  How 'bout you?

Just heading off to the airport but more later maybe.

2F will work.. lol

I am not pulling any victim crap.. all I am saying is if you want to get through to someone like him you cant hit him with a bat.  Thats all.  I am around such artistic people every day.. I know a bit of how they think and feel.  

example.. a while back I had reconnected with an old art school friend.. he has made himself famous portraying Michael Jackson giving it to the Pope in the rear.. well the guy was really enjoying MJs death.. and I couldn't stand it anymore and had to speak up.  I mentioned MJ hadn't been convicted.. that was the "clue bat" and the guy just did a cut and run, same as DJ.  

See my point?

Or, perhaps.. if someone was about to put this into your hands to hold.. how would you handle it?

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, you are hilarious!  You just can't help it, can you.  Everything in me irritates you, and of course great evil must befall me because I'm so irritating.  The bigger the tree, eh?   Cartoonishly big and stubborn tree, yes, I like the image.  

It's also easy to see why you so ardently defend the poor 39-year-old drama king with the mind of a teenager; he's the mirror of you, isn't he?  It's yourself you are defending?

Oh one more thing; NOBODY tells anyone here to "tone it down" unless the Mods decide to do so.  Learn your manners boy.  

Actually Blues.. I suspect if we were to sit down at a table with a bottle of vodka we would find each other rather interesting and funny.. though I know that is unlikey to ever happen.

No, I am not defending myself when I stick up for DJ.  But, I do understand him even if I think the level of depression he so openly expresses is both self absorbed and somewhat immature.  On the other hand, manic depression IS and illness and having spent more than two decades around artists, many of whom suffer the same affliction, I do have a lot of experience in how to get a message across.

And finally, I never TOLD you to tone it down.. I asked you to, rather nicely, in fact I verged on pleading with you.  I saw how this would end almost from the beginning and I did everything I could to stop it from happening.  Just something to think about.

[Sculpto]

Well, so much for reality checks.

Actually Ed.. I think he probably did get it.  The chat last night was useful and I think he understands the dynamics at this point.  At least I hope so.  From semi rural Iowa to Kherson is a long way and he will be eaten alive over there if he doesn't have someone watching his back.  The sharks in that agency in Kherson are very very practiced.  They will have him begging them to let him give them his money.

[ECOCKS]

Probably true, if he ever got up enough "gumption" (for lack of a better word) to get up and go.

I doubt the woman situation is real and even if he got there, being goth in Ukraine is a bit different than doing so in the states.

[Daveman]

After reading this thread, I am convinced that Our Gothic Hero simply needs to get laid, RW style for about 12 solid mind blowing (among other things) hours.  He'll be too exhausted to be depressed (and very difficult to be depressed with that silly post orgasmic grin scaring small animals, or at least making them hide the duct tape in case a monster is unleashed)..

 Hell, now I really wanna get laid by a sexy Russian goth girl.   But how would I/you know she's a Goth? They all look the same nekkid, right?  So, dude, take the black cape and back lipstick off the inflataGoth, hop on a plane and go see if she's real. If she ain't, then have a blast over there anyway and meet some other ladies.... nothing wrong with the guy but a serious need for a major Russian porkin'..  :evil:

[Sculpto]

Probably true, if he ever got up enough "gumption" (for lack of a better word) to get up and go.

I doubt the woman situation is real and even if he got there, being goth in Ukraine is a bit different than doing so in the states.

Well, he managed to arrive here to ask questions.. with encouragement I think he might just as well have gotten on the plane.  Who knows.. i didn't check to see if he eliminated his membership or not.. we might not have heard the last of DJ.. I hope not. 

And you are somewhat right about Goth being different there than here.. one of the biggest differences that would probably shock him is the difference in street life there as opposed to someplace in Iowa.  Someplace in Iowa is a very nice, clean, suburban place with not a heck of alot going on.  Kherson might be a crap hole.. but.. for its lack of size and lack of proximity and lack of economy it does have a pretty vibrant street life.  Then again.. my Odessa friends told me there is nothing in Kherson but crack heads and whores.. so.. who knows???

[Sculpto]

After reading this thread, I am convinced that Our Gothic Hero simply needs to get laid, RW style for about 12 solid mind blowing (among other things) hours.  He'll be too exhausted to be depressed (and very difficult to be depressed with that silly post orgasmic grin scaring small animals, or at least making them hide the duct tape in case a monster is unleashed)..

 Hell, now I really wanna get laid by a sexy Russian goth girl.   But how would I/you know she's a Goth? They all look the same nekkid, right?  So, dude, take the black cape and back lipstick off the inflataGoth, hop on a plane and go see if she's real. If she ain't, then have a blast over there anyway and meet some other ladies.... nothing wrong with the guy but a serious need for a major Russian porkin'..  :evil:

I love you Dave.    Not like that..

[Boethius]

djgoth, obviously, you are an adult, and will do what you wish.  I know a fair bit about depression.  I disagree with Blues Fairy's analysis of "curing" depression (or bipolar disorder), as it can't be cured, though it can be managed.  However, I think she is correct about not bringing a woman into a relationship if you are depressive. 

Just as importantly, I think you should really consider whether this is the best thing for you.  Relationships are difficult enough.  What happens if this girl turns out to be looking for an exit from Ukraine rather than a real marriage?  What happens if she tells you, after a year or two, that you are not making a good enough income, and she doesn't plan to stick around?  What happens if you become ill and she decides to take off?  Will you be able to cope with these possibilities?

Of course, these scenarios are a possibility with an American wife as well, but you will have the benefit of knowing her well before you jump into the commitment of a marriage.  You will also have the benefits of a common language and culture.

Can you survive a crash and burn?

I'm not a pessimist, but I am a realist.

[GoodOlBoy]

As much as I like you, 2012, you're far too rah-rah to do this fellow any good but mislead him.

You have hit on something here Vaughn that has been stated over and over again by MANY other member's here on RWD.

He is very misleading to the NEWBIES who visit our site.

If somebody wants to tie a cross on their back and carry it around the forum trying to save the delta smelt, gay's, illegal aliens, goth's and just about any other cause that runs contrary to popular belief, that's OK with me (although it is slightly irritating at times :evil:).

But when he starts doling out misleading advice to Newbies, then he should be called on it and dealt with by the powers that be.


GOB

[Shadow]

I see a differnce here between two things.

As far as the advice on how to handle the situation with his girl, DJG got sound advice.
However it was accompanied by an number of people who decided to criticize his lifestyle and culture he feels good in.

One may or may not agree with it, but DJG has the right to live his life as he feels right. By attacking his philosphy insted of concentrating on his situation, we did not do him a service.

[BC]

I see a differnce here between two things.

As far as the advice on how to handle the situation with his girl, DJG got sound advice.
However it was accompanied by an number of people who decided to criticize his lifestyle and culture he feels good in.

One may or may not agree with it, but DJG has the right to live his life as he feels right. By attacking his philosphy insted of concentrating on his situation, we did not do him a service.

Unless DJ has incredibly thin skin (which I don't think is the case) I disagree with both parts in bold above.

I've seen folks come on here and get reamed (mostly for being stupid which DJ is not).  Is he self absorbed? Surely so.. it comes with his territory, so what.. he knows this himself.

a WASP gets reamed, a Goth or anyone else that is a bit different kid gloves are put on..  I think we're getting a bit too PC with 'S' hanging around looking for any bandwagon to jump on, trying to hijack the board in any direction but FSU.

DJ is Goth.. so friggin what..  He has some issues upstairs.. (we all do).. so friggin what.

I detect an intelligent being underneath whatever 'cover' he wears. If anything he'll probably get turned off more by someone 'covering his back' when he really doesn't need it or want it.  He's an adult and like you and me look both ways when crossing the street.  I doubt he relishes the thought of someone holding his hand to cross.

Condescending.. that's the word I was looking for..  Is that what we need to be?

[docetae]

I see a differnce here between two things.

As far as the advice on how to handle the situation with his girl, DJG got sound advice.
However it was accompanied by an number of people who decided to criticize his lifestyle and culture he feels good in.

One may or may not agree with it, but DJG has the right to live his life as he feels right. By attacking his philosphy insted of concentrating on his situation, we did not do him a service.

The board is about international relations. he had advises about what to do. he answered by referring to his life style as justification of his fantasies. I can not imagine a woman leaving her country/friend/family falling with a depressed man with a big ego. This is not a critic about his life style, this is a critic about using a life style to justify a behavior.