She is here! My 'trip' report continues

[Son of Clyde]

JB,

There you go again, you retaliate with a cheap shot.

It does not put you in better standing for you to mention my mistakes, apparently you do not feel you have any faults.

I would like to think I am a mature enough person that if anyone wanted me to post honestly about why I visited those young women I would post the truth.

 

[Son of Clyde]

Ken, I agree that newbies can learn from Doug's experiences. I am hoping after Larysa has been here for a year or so the situation will change and the newbie will learn about the struggles of a Russian woman her first year in the US.

I think Doug is very fortunate there is not a child in the picture. He has it a little easier than I did.

I am hoping for the best. Doug appears to be a little naive like I was. I like his optomism even when people are still telling him he made a grave error. I don't think it is so and I hope time will tell I am correct.

[jb]

you retaliate with a cheap shot.

Since when is the truth ever a "cheap shot"?  Get real, Clyde.

I don't have it "in" for Doug, and I have nothing but sympathy for what Larassa is going through.  It's gotta be tough.

[KenC]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Ken, I agree that newbies can learn from Doug's experiences. I am hoping after Larysa has been here for a year or so the situation will change and the newbie will learn about the struggles of a Russian woman her first year in the US.

I think Doug is very fortunate there is not a child in the picture. He has it a little easier than I did.

I am hoping for the best. Doug appears to be a little naive like I was. I like his optomism even when people are still telling him he made a grave error. I don't think it is so and I hope time will tell I am correct.

Clyde,

I don't necessarily agree with kids making everything worse.  At least with a child, the RW has a huge piece of "home" with her here and there by reducing the homesickness.  Children also keep you occupied and there is a huge void that most RW need to fill once they arrive here.  Look at it this way, if Larysa had a child, she would have had some company while Doug is away for his 3 day trips.

KenC

(BTW, if anyone gave you a "cheap shot" it was yourself.  It is YOUR history as written by YOU)

[andrewfi]

One thing is for sure, and I am certain can be agreed upon by all posters and readers of this thread. Nobody has malice toward Larysa or Doug. Whilst I am sure, given what I have read, that a marriage would not be the best thing for these two lonely people, I do wish both of them happiness (probably obtained apart, not together!)

For me, reading the more recent posts, the most poingnant was that when they went out to "Chucky Cheese" (some kind of upmarket diing experience?) a woman almost a stranger to both 'lovers' was pressed into duty as interpreter. If the relationship and communication is at this level then Doug is also at the level of merely guessing and wishing about his interlocutor.

I also expect that thre will be a wedding, but it will not be  love match, but rather a marriage made to prove a point and to enable one of the parties to achieve her goals. Can a love match grow from such arid soil? I don't know. I am not a gardner, but I know that not many plants survive desert conditions and those that do are leathery and tough as old boots. There is only one person in this coupling that might possibly meet those criteria and it ain't the American!

 

[dwfunk]

Let's not have a funeral until we've got something to bury.

yeah, guess you are right. Just because it stinks real bad doesn't necessarily mean it's dead . . . 

[Albert]

Can a love match grow from such arid soil? I don't know. I am not a gardner, but I know that not many plants survive desert conditions and those that do are leathery and tough as old boots. There is only one person in this coupling that might possibly meet those criteria and it ain't the American!

 

I think many here are being overly tough on Doug.  From the beginning, I told him he was silly and naive.  But now it is apparent he is fairly tough.  He has put up with a lot of crap going through the process and he has certainly put up with a lot of crap on these boards from we guys.  Even when a lot of the advice is good, it is still a lot of crap to put up with for the guy.  If I got the crap that Doug got, and is getting, I would have bailed from this site long ago.

Doug certainly has a lot more patience than most of the rest of us.  I think he is indeed tough enough for the task ahead.  Not to say that he is any less naive than he was several months ago and any less foolish for how he went about this whole process of finding a wife.  But to suggest he is not tough . . . . I can no longer buy into that.

I think he has had enough suggestions from this board.  Let's cut him some slack and end this thread.  Let him start a new thread with specific questions if he needs some more help and advice.

[KenC]

One thing is for sure, and I am certain can be agreed upon by all posters and readers of this thread. Nobody has malice toward Larysa or Doug. Whilst I am sure, given what I have read, that a marriage would not be the best thing for these two lonely people, I do wish both of them happiness (probably obtained apart, not together!)

For me, reading the more recent posts, the most poingnant was that when they went out to "Chucky Cheese" (some kind of upmarket diing experience?) a woman almost a stranger to both 'lovers' was pressed into duty as interpreter. If the relationship and communication is at this level then Doug is also at the level of merely guessing and wishing about his interlocutor.

I also expect that thre will be a wedding, but it will not be  love match, but rather a marriage made to prove a point and to enable one of the parties to achieve her goals. Can a love match grow from such arid soil? I don't know. I am not a gardner, but I know that not many plants survive desert conditions and those that do are leathery and tough as old boots. There is only one person in this coupling that might possibly meet those criteria and it ain't the American!

 

This has never been about whether Doug and Larysa deserve love and happiness, because of course they do.  And it has never been about whether Doug and Larysa are good or bad people because from all indications here they are fine people.  It has always been about how two fine people can sabotage their own relationship through foolish and hastey decisions.

If Doug had taken one more trip and spent more time with Larysa one on one, they might have realized the extreme difficulty that lie ahead due to their inability to communicate.  This recognition would have put more emphasis on Larysa's English education.  As it was, their communications were propped up with transators and interpretors.  This is a workable plan for emails and a weekly phone call or two, but totally unacceptable for the days on end that a couple should spend together alone.  I don't think that Larysa was clear on the importance of her English lessons even though Doug seemed to be stressing them.  Never the less, they wasted a better part of a year's preperation with a bad English instructor.  How did this practical detail get overlooked?

Now time is short.  They have passed the one third mark of her 90 day visa and are still grappling with the most elementary levels of communication.  If Doug cannot even determine if Larysa wants pepporoni on her pizza without enlisting the help of a stranger, then how in the hell is he ever going to be able to come to a reasonable conclusion on the important stuff like love, honesty and sharing the rest of their lives together?  The answer is, he can't.  And Larysa also finds herself in a postion to make some life altering decisions based on grunts, hand signs and body language.

What we have here is two people closing in on making decisions that will effect the rest of their lives with little or no valid information of which to base them on.  They have painted themselves into a corner on this.  There simply is not enough time left in which to make a valid decision.  And it is too bad too.  It didn't have to be this way.  With a lot more patience and a few more trips, this could have been the time of their lives, instead of the pressure cooker that they have made for themselves.

And it is an impossible postion for them to be in.  If they decide to go ahead with the marriage, it is a huge risk they both take on the most limited of information.  And if they decide for Larysa to go back home, they may have ruined the opportunity of finding true love in each other.  Good luck you two.  But it reallly doesn't need to be this difficult.

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

I think he has had enough suggestions from this board.  Let's cut him some slack and end this thread.  Let him start a new thread with specific questions if he needs some more help and advice.

Amen.

[Turboguy]

I have to think there is not much that could be said that has not been said.  I have to admire the fact that for all the tough comments he has gone through, he is still here.  Compare that to whoever it was who sent his gal back in 5 days and we haven't seen him since.

I think Doug has had a sincere interest in learning how to improve his chances and learing how to help Larisa.   Personally I have never felt the language thing was as big an issue as some of the others have but again, I have never had to deal with it personally either.

If it works, I think a lot of it will be from the shear strength of Dougs efforts.  If it doesn't, I think Doug will have learned a lot.

 

[andrewfi]

TG ~ As one who HAS dealt with the language issues, I know of what I speak. I have pi$$ed on the proverbial electric fence! Unlike most here, I have been in a similar situation to both Doug and Larysa, albeit at different times!

We do not know how the two are getting on in terms of physical affection, but without a very strong bond here, then the rest becmes moot. But even with such a bond, the reality is that they have no way to get to know each other.

It is great that Doug is still here but having a wooden jaw never yet made a good boxer, it just caused a bad boxer to take a long time to fall down! (or perhaps gave the bright fighter time to learn his craft - with the best will in the world, I don't see much of a learning process going on here!)

[KenC]

I have to think there is not much that could be said that has not been said.  I have to admire the fact that for all the tough comments he has gone through, he is still here.  Compare that to whoever it was who sent his gal back in 5 days and we haven't seen him since.

I think Doug has had a sincere interest in learning how to improve his chances and learing how to help Larisa.   Personally I have never felt the language thing was as big an issue as some of the others have but again, I have never had to deal with it personally either.

If it works, I think a lot of it will be from the shear strength of Dougs efforts.  If it doesn't, I think Doug will have learned a lot.

 

Turbo,

Yeah, I would give Doug an "A" for perseverance here but an "E" for ability in "learning how to improve his chances".  As little as a week ago, he was still turning a deaf ear towards others that have sought to help him with Larysa's transition.  He seems bound and determined to make a mess of this all by himself.  It is one thing to work hard and quite another to work smart.

KenC

[rose]

I hope that Larisa and Doug will finally work it out.
When I came to the USA several years ago I knew English pretty well (at least I didn't have to go to ESL classes, I went straight to college). And still, I had a cultural and language shock. It took me about 6 month to overcome it.
Doug, if Larisa will agree, I'll be happy to talk to her on the phone.
* What helped me a lot during my first year - I watched a lot of movies, trying to get used to the American speech. There are at least two aspects: passive knowledge (ability to understand speech), and active usage (ability to express one's thoughts).
Movies are good for the first aspect.
* Russian TV..., Russian friends... from one side it's a good idea, from the other, it will not stimulate her to learn English.
* What does she do while you are at work? Does she have any hobbies? Gardening? Cross-stitching? etc.
* There is another thing: when one speaks in native language one uses his cognition and corresponding to it corpus to express thought, feelings, etc. Imagine your frustration if one day you'll awake and find out that you are mute... You want to say something, and cannot. Finally somehow you managed to learn a couple of words in sign language. And you have to use only those words. It means that subconsciously you have to suppress, to "size down" your cognition to "fit" into those several words. But you can't do it, it's not so easy. That's when frustration hits you. I think the only way to overcome it is strong motivation.
If Larisa doesn't have it, sorry, there only a few chances of success.
* From what you've posted here Larisa seem to be an introvert, what makes her adjusting to the life in the US more difficult.
* larisa's Parents. Can you somehow communicate with them and tell them how much Larisa means to you, and in some nice way ask them not to upset her with "missing the only daughter" stuff? But be careful, she might be angry if she'll find about it. Try to figure out how to do it in a very diplomatic way.
* Honestly, girls who come here without knowledge of English take a huge risk, as well as guys who bring them here. Gambling in Vegas and winning a jack pot has better chances comparing to this "language" problem. It's my personal opinion, maybe a lot of people will not agree with me; well I respect their opinion, too.
* Lets look in the future: assuming that a financial status of a guy is OK, bringing non-speaking wife here means that she'll spend some time just learning English. It might take a really long "while" till she'll be able to go to school here for some more serious than ESL classes education or find a decent job (I'm not talking abt Target, Wal-Mart, etc.). Very often, even having a diploma from Russia/Ukraine people still have to take additional classes here. And it's additional difficulties and frustration for both partners. If your plan to keep you wife at home, the chances are that pretty soon she'll get bored.
Well, seems it doesn't sound very promising? Well, you are right. But, on the other hand, not all of it so bad. If to look around, other people don't have these problems, but... they have some other problems, often much worse that I've just described.
There is a story about two frogs that were trapped in the jar with sour cream. One gave up and drowned, while the other kept jumping and finally made from a sour cream a ball of butter, jumped on it and freed herself. Larisa knows this story for sure.
My point is that from living here I've learned that probably the biggest positive thing about America is that it gives everybody an opportunity. And it is a personal choice to use it or to give up and drown. Try to find out something what will motivate Larisa to fight for your happiness together, and not to give up.
Good luck!!!
You can write me any time, and I'll be glad to talk to her.

[KenC]

Rose,

That is by far the very best post I have ever read on the subject!  You blew me away with it.  I wish that I could force every guy interested in RW to read it.  You are a treasure to this forum.  Thank you for your great contribution!

KenC

[jb]

Ken,

You took the words right off my computer screen, if I had not checked back for additional posts, I'd have sent a duplicate of yours.

Rose has posted a brilliantly succinct summation of the pitfalls of haphazard romances.  Every newbie should pay heed to her words.

[tim 360]

An excellent post Rose.  Your singuliar experience is similiar to many FSU ladies I have met here and they all echo your thoughts.  A high level of English language skills is necessary to succeed here.  With relationships or careers.  Without that,  communication becomes a frustrating game of charades.  Each language has many nuances only picked-up on by native speakers or someone who has been immersed in said language.  A relationship without the commonality of language and communication is doomed to great frustrations and ultimately great mis-understandings which arise daily. 

For guys,  just imagine yourself in another country with a new foreign wife and you do not know the language to communicate effectively with her or to even go shopping. 

If you put yourself in the ladies shoes and see how alienated and frustrated you would be---you may begin to know how she feels. 

If you think you want to marry a lady without very good English I think it is far better to get her some good English lessons BEFORE she comes here.  And don't rush it,  give the relationship a little times before marriage.

 

[Son of Clyde]

I have found MY parents to be very supportive even if they did not agree to my traveling 2,500 miles to meet someone.

If not for them I would have had many more problems taking off work every time there is a dilemma.

Just one friend or family member to support you can make a big difference.

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"][color="blue"]'Strong Motivation'?[/color]
Yes Rose, we definitely have that going for us. Don't count us out.
It's odd watching people placing bets on our lives, trying to determine
what the odds are that we will succeed.

Yesterday, we spent most of our day with Natasha, a married woman from  Belarus. We went shopping for tennis shoes and various clothing at  Kohl's. After that we had a combination picnic/jacuzzi session that  included wine, chips, salsa, grapes, and some interesting   insights into Larysa's thinking, thanks to Natasha's translations (at her condo's central pool area)

We went from the jacuzzi to the nearby heated pool. Back and forth.  Lots of playful cuddling, laughter, and a generally fantastic  time.  -doug [/size][/color]

[ConnerVT]

Unfortunately, this is where two people would normally be on their third or fourth date, not 30 days into a K-1 visa.

[Turboguy]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

'Strong Motivation'?
Yes Rose, we definitely have that going for us. Don't count us out.
It's odd watching people placing bets on our lives, trying to determine what the odds are that we will succeed.

Yes, it has been much better since the Las Vegas book makers got involed.   The odd's they are giving now encouraged me to have big bucks riding on you Doug,   Just remember if it does't work I will be digging ditches to pay the bookies. 

[BC]

Threesomes are fun but usually short-lived.

[BillyB]

We do not know how the two are getting on in terms of physical affection, but without a very strong bond here, then the rest becmes moot. But even with such a bond, the reality is that they have no way to get to know each other.

 

Andrew makes a good point that PG needs to think about. No matter how good you communicate, if the woman isn't into you, then nothing can materialize past friendship.

PG, you need to think about how Larysa responds to your touch. Does she reject you most of the time or submits herself to you? Is she a selfish lover and only wants it when she wants it or submits herself to your needs? After you're finished, does her eyes look at you with admiration and say "Thank You" in her sexy accent? Just some things that can happen that are positive signs that she's into you. You really need to pay attention to her physical attraction to you.

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]Conner,
Huh? Fun in a jacuzzi... is cause for a put-down? Lighten-up, man! 
Tell us about the superiority of YOUR evolved deep mature relationship. Go ahead.

Billy,
The affection is alive and well. Good point.
[/size][/color][/b]

[Photo Guy]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

[color="navy"][size="3"][color="blue"]'Strong Motivation'?[/color]
Yes Rose, we definitely have that going for us. Don't count us out.
It's odd watching people placing bets on our lives, trying to determine what the odds are that we will succeed.

[/size][/color]

Yes, it has been much better since the Las  Vegas book makers got involed.   The odd's they are giving now  encouraged me to have big bucks riding on you Doug,   Just remember if  it does't work I will be digging ditches to pay the bookies.

[color="navy"][size="3"]Truthfully, I myself  am not sure how I would bet at this point. Some say a guy is supposed  to be close to 100% sure, but hey, there are so many sides to this  situation.
It isn't just about love, romance and ability to communicate. For example, she is surprised by how much she [color="darkred"]misses her parents[/color].  She is homesick. There is also the culture shock and the knowledge that  as time passes it will get easier. The homesick thing alone could end  it.

Don't worry about your bet, Turbo, you can pay the bookies with some of  your inventory. Actually, I'll do what I can to make things look  horrible for us, leading to a bigger pay-out for you when  ...[color="blue"]we do win.  [/color][/size][/color][/b]

[dwfunk]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Just one friend or family member to support you can make a big difference.

AMEN!! Hallelujah!  Thanks Shlan!!


--
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
http://www.davidandnataliafunk.org/



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