Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[Vasilisa]

In fact, most men that I know want a woman who truly loves THEM, not their house, their wallet, their credit cards or their passport. Of course, some men are, in fact, merely looking for a trophy piece of eye candy to make their friends think there is something inherently fantastic about their studly abilities and debonair personality to make this woman fall in love with them BUT this DESIRE applies even to those who have been married 40 years IF THEY WERE REALLY IN LOVE.

Thank you.
I agree with you.
But to love truly you have to see (meet) him or her in person, when people create the profiles they create them BEFORE they meet their future partner in person, so they must have some idea of what he or she is going to be like and what they are looking for, so the first steps you are making in online dating are often controlled by your mind, not by your heart.

So this is the level when you "make the  list". It doesn't mean you don't want to love and to be loved, but only want  to improve your life conditions. You are just making it clear what you are like and what you feel comfortable with.

[Gator]

And there you have it......

Looking for love? Not hardly.

I believe you are being too hard on RW with regard to this issue.   Are AW that much better than RW in this regard?  And in moving here the RW has more to lose than an AW.   
 
Do AM seriously date a lot of AW outside their class?   There is nothing wrong with being a coal truck driver in Ukraine, yet did the UW who answered this question have a father who drove trucks?     
 
A RW should look for love and "security" in the same man.  Also, most of the RW I met wanted to work, albeit not at an unskilled labor position.  They knew it would be difficult but thought eventually they would  find something meaningful.
 
Their true colors came out in how this added income would be spent.
 

[Vasilisa]

Just a general question, for anyone who cares to answer.  If you are not interested in working in certain occupations, it is beneath you, is that an entitlement attitude?  For guys if the situation was reversed and you were looking for employment in Russia, could you do any job that was available without qualms?  Also, would you say being uneducated is the equivalent of being low class?  Is that also an attitude of entitlement, or is it more of an attitude that some people are just better than some other people?

You didn't get what I was talking about.
It's not about degrees, diplomas and money.
 It's about the feeling and status. Don't forget that Russia is often called the country of European looking people with Asian mentality. It means that we have a vertical scale of relationships, not a horizontal one.  People are judged by what they have achieved so far and what they look like. Status means a lot for many people, especially for older one who realize that will not achieve more. Yes, there are people who say: I don't care about what people say, I can just leave my life, move to Africa and wash floors in a Red Cross hospital, I don't know many of them, though we used to have a lot of heroes like that in the Soviet time, though but those people had "the IDEA" that they are building the bright future.

Speaking about this particular case I don't see any reason why to leave your life, kids and your  office behind to fly across the ocean to wash floors. I could wash  floors and work nights in a supermarket if my beloved husband, child, father got sick, why to cross the ocean because of the man you haven't met in person, the one who doesn't care about you, your desires and your kids?


I also got what you are trying to explain that having a high school education doesn't mean being a low class person, I agree. I am talking about real life, not about exceptions.

[ECOCKS]

Thank you.
I agree with you.
But to love truly you have to see (meet) him or her in person, when people create the profiles they create them BEFORE they meet their future partner in person, so they must have some idea of what he or she is going to be like and what they are looking for, so the first steps you are making in online dating are often controlled by your mind, not by your heart.

So this is the level when you "make the  list". It doesn't mean you don't want to love and to be loved, but only want  to improve your life conditions. You are just making it clear what you are like and what you feel comfortable with.

Your last part is where the conflict comes into being.
 
 True love, for most men, has little to do with lifestyle or bank accounts.
 
 Granted, if a man enjoys fishing every weekend with his male friends, this may be a reason for the woman not to regard him as marriage material but that has nothing to do with the locations of their vacations, the job he holds or the size of the boat he fishes from.
 
 Again, do not misunderstand me, I am completely in agreement with you that FSUW are very concerned about the quality of life they will lead with their new man. Can they get shoes regularly? Where will they be able to buy dresses? How many months each year will they be able to visit their friends? Can the children go to Harvard? Which spa will they be able to go to in their new home? Can they get a servant/maid/nanya/cook?

Did you go read the Privet Anna site?

[Vasilisa]

I believe you are being too hard on RW with regard to this issue.   Are AW that much better than RW in this regard?  And in moving here the RW has more to lose than an AW.   
 
Do AM seriously date a lot of AW outside their class?   There is nothing wrong with being a coal truck driver in Ukraine, yet did the UW who answered this question have a father who drove trucks?     
 
A RW should look for love and "security" in the same man.  Also, most of the RW I met wanted to work, albeit not at an unskilled labor position.  They knew it would be difficult but thought eventually they would  find something meaningful.
 
Their true colors came out in how this added income would be spent.
 

Many truck drivers, plumbers, technicians in Russia earn more money than some lawyers. they are also kind and have a great personality.
It's not about the money. It's about how little in common you may have with them and if you don't share interests how are you going to spend your spare time?! Separately?! I' ve seen families like that though but people live like 2 roommates who have sex from time to time and raise kids together.

Also it's important for me to discuss something with my future husband, our point of view depend on our knowledge, experience, etc, if he is sure that 2Х2=15, is sure that he is right and says something like :"You must listen to me because I am the Man" who am I going to discuss serious things with? 
what kind of a life is that: you both come home from work, then he drinks beer working in a garage, you watch a soap opera cooking dinner, then you eat dinner together without having any kind of discussions, then he watches baseball and you read a book, sex at night, that's it. When you have a vacation he is going to Thailand to have sex with prostitutes and she goes to Europe to visit the local museums?! I'd call this room mates.

[Vasilisa]

Your last part is where the conflict comes into being.
 
True love, for most men, has little to do with lifestyle or bank accounts.
 
 

That was what i mentioned in the first part!
True love is impossible without meeting in person.

As for the profiles I read men mention a lot of things their future wife must have, some even mention the salary range.

[Vasilisa]

 
Their true colors came out in how this added income would be spent.
 

  lol

[ML]

I absolutely agree. It is all about meeting each other's expectations and an agreement.

BTW, women should enjoy the equal rights in full, so I don't think it is some kind of oddity to expect that a woman will be an equal breadwinner 

There is nothing wrong when a woman looks for a better life, a question is what she is willing to do to have a better life.

When a woman states that a man should pay for everything and provide her (and not only her but her children too) with better life just because she is 30-20 or whatever years younger or beautiful ... it sounds more like trading to me (nothing new in this World) and yes as an entitlement attitude.

Some women look only for a provider and they don't care about his age and look, but how much he can give, some women look for a partner... and it is up to both sides, a man and a woman, to decide if they meet each other's expectations, needs, dreams, illusions and so on.

Excellent post Olga.

I repeat what some others have said:  You are truly a quality woman.   

Yes, sometimes you and I don't agree on some specific item; but still, you are high quality.

[ML]

For the most part; this thread points out something common to many other threads with active comments from men and women.

That something is that the men and women here (and most likely in general) simply look at the same situation from such widely different perspectives and interpretations . . . as to be unbelievable.

A truly independent outsider would have to conclude that the men and women here are commenting on two completely different topics; even while posting in the same thread.

[ECOCKS]

For the most part; this thread points out something common to many other threads with active comments from men and women.

That something is that the men and women here (and most likely in general) simply look at the same situation from such widely different perspectives and interpretations . . . as to be unbelievable.

A truly independent outsider would have to conclude that the men and women here are commenting on two completely different topics; even while posting in the same thread.

Or someone who is willing to let their fantasy implode......

[mies]

So, looking for love and a family without getting a worse life at the same time  is considered to be something strange nowadays?!

Ecocks just doesn't know that all Dekabrists' wives are dead for more than a century now.

[ECOCKS]

Many truck drivers, plumbers, technicians in Russia earn more money than some lawyers. they are also kind and have a great personality.
It's not about the money. It's about how little in common you may have with them and if you don't share interests how are you going to spend your spare time?! Separately?! I' ve seen families like that though but people live like 2 roommates who have sex from time to time and raise kids together.

Also it's important for me to discuss something with my future husband, our point of view depend on our knowledge, experience, etc, if he is sure that 2Х2=15, is sure that he is right and says something like :"You must listen to me because I am the Man" who am I going to discuss serious things with? 
what kind of a life is that: you both come home from work, then he drinks beer working in a garage, you watch a soap opera cooking dinner, then you eat dinner together without having any kind of discussions, then he watches baseball and you read a book, sex at night, that's it. When you have a vacation he is going to Thailand to have sex with prostitutes and she goes to Europe to visit the local museums?! I'd call this room mates.

I love the stereotypes V.

Let's paint the full picture though.

You need to remember that the Russian princess is doing her hair, shaving her pits, checking her implants and rearranging her little dog in her purse while the guy is out there in the garage.

Thanks again for the woman's perspective in this!

[pitbull]

For the most part; this thread points out something common to many other threads with active comments from men and women.

That something is that the men and women here (and most likely in general) simply look at the same situation from such widely different perspectives and interpretations . . . as to be unbelievable.

A truly independent outsider would have to conclude that the men and women here are commenting on two completely different topics; even while posting in the same thread.

I won't say so... Quite often men and women are in complete alignment regarding this same situation. For example, my husband always agrees with my reasoning when I post on RWD (and tell him some of the most "moving" stories, like this one). There are some (sadly, few) male posters from RWD who tend to agree with me and I with them. Those men are void of the prevailing MOB-seeker attitude of "I'm gonna get the biggest bang for my buck and buy myself a cheap cow" 

[ECOCKS]

Ecocks just doesn't know that all Dekabrists' wives are dead for more than a century now.

Yeah, funny isn't it?!?   

Yuk, yuk, yuk.........

Whoo hoo!

Dem' Murrikins shure r dum!

Still it could be worse, I could have been born on the other side of the curtain and have to live with my lack of couth, shortened lifespan and cheap vodka for life!

Lucky me though!

[Daveman]

You didn't get what I was talking about.
It's not about degrees, diplomas and money.
 It's about the feeling and status. Don't forget that Russia is often called the country of European looking people with Asian mentality. It means that we have a vertical scale of relationships, not a horizontal one.  People are judged by what they have achieved so far and what they look like. Status means a lot for many people, especially for older one who realize that will not achieve more. Yes, there are people who say: I don't care about what people say, I can just leave my life, move to Africa and wash floors in a Red Cross hospital, I don't know many of them, though we used to have a lot of heroes like that in the Soviet time, though but those people had "the IDEA" that they are building the bright future.

Speaking about this particular case I don't see any reason why to leave your life, kids and your  office behind to fly across the ocean to wash floors. I could wash  floors and work nights in a supermarket if my beloved husband, child, father got sick, why to cross the ocean because of the man you haven't met in person, the one who doesn't care about you, your desires and your kids?


I also got what you are trying to explain that having a high school education doesn't mean being a low class person, I agree. I am talking about real life, not about exceptions.

Guys reading this need to pay close attention to that billboard. It is absolutely true.  It's a society of "appearances".  Character plays second fiddle to status. If you don't have an equal or preferably greater "status"  (greater in that by association, their status is raised),  you're not really worthy of the time of day. 


It is what it is and they are who they are...


here's a question for you
Would you work for two years as a cashier (or whatever 'low class' kinda job) to help *build* a better life for yourself and your partner? Or is that beneath you because it would make you unhappy?


It's interesting that Russian immigrants who come here as a family do *exactly* that, but it is "beneath" the wives to do that.  Now, that being said, would I want my wife to work scrubbing toilets? Well, I do admit to having that fantasy when she's being a particularly gargantuan pain in the rear... but of course not.. I'd prefer her to feel fulfilled in life in every way and would do my best to see that happen... HOWEVER, it's important for a man to know that a woman takes "better or worse" seriously and will pull together as a partner if the going does get rough rather than jump ship for an "upgrade".

[ECOCKS]

@Daveman

no Thank You button here, all I can say is:

+1

[Gator]

Ecocks just doesn't know that all Dekabrists' wives are dead for more than a century now.

Are these the Decembrist wives?  The failed revolution in the early 19th C by liberal members of the upper class.  Most were banished to Siberia and their wives followed them, living a hard life.

Today there are many American couples who stay together through some harsh times.   Not everyone pulls the seat ejection cord.

[ECOCKS]

Are these the Decembrist wives?  The failed revolution in the early 19th C by liberal members of the upper class.  Most were banished to Siberia and their wives followed them, living a hard life.

Today there are many American couples who stay together through some harsh times.   Not everyone pulls the seat ejection cord.

Yes, but they were the "bad" and "foolish" Russians.

They obviously don't make them that way anymore despite the prattle of traditional values and morality.

[OlgaH]

 There are some (sadly, few) male posters from RWD who tend to agree with me and I with them. Those men are void of the prevailing MOB-seeker attitude of "I'm gonna get the biggest bang for my buck and buy myself a cheap cow" 

Pitbull, I really don't know how many male posters here are looking for a cheap cow, but I think the men who avoid females in MOB industry with "I need a husband because I don't want to work" or "he  owes me for my beauty and young age" attitude  are on the right path.

[Gator]

Yes, but they were the "bad" and "foolish" Russians.

They obviously don't make them that way anymore despite the prattle of traditional values and morality.

I believe you are coloring the RW with too much gold paint, gold as in golddigger.  All that you describe seems more like a gold digger.  Yes, there are gold diggers aplenty in the FSU.  However, every woman is different. 
 
Having faced much turmoil in the 1990s, the RW in their 30s and 40s attach much significance to security.  They do not want to worry about money.  There are plenty of poor RM in their own country.; why move to America and live in poverty with a man who she really does not know?   Is what you are describing more about the young RW in their 20s?
 
I recall Aloe's story.  Her attitude was reasonable, and in fact delightful.
 
The more damning words of entitlement came in Reply #3 of this thread:   "She brings a 30-year age difference to the table. Sorry, you have to pay for that..."
 

[Gator]

Would you work for two years as a cashier (or whatever 'low class' kinda job) to help *build* a better life for yourself and your partner? Or is that beneath you because it would make you unhappy?

A good question.     The answer I guess depends upon how necessary is the second income.  Is it the difference between eating cabbage vs. eating fresh fish?    Is it the difference between having two cars vs. one car?  Is it the difference between not visiting the FSU for a few years vs. returning to the FSU each summer?     

I have never met a lazy RW.  I believe they would work at whatever job they could obtain IF it were necessary (or became necessary).
 
The question of necessity is frequently an issue with any married couple, especially when there is limited discretionary money available.   AM and RW better make sure they share common values about money before they marry. 

 

[OlgaH]

 She contacted me after reading my profile and wanted to explore a possible relationship. 

I had sent her my full bio/extended profile.  Within it, it makes very clear that I would expect my wife to work and help support the family.  It also describes daily life with me in the US including the fact that I expect to continue doing most of  the housework, etc. since she will be working.  My age is clearly stated in the on line profile as well as the extended bio.  Both the age difference and the expectation to work are pasted from my Skype log below.  It is clear that for the better part of 3 weeks she implied that she accepted the age difference as well as the expectation to work.  I had made no commitment to her but was interested in how she thought this scenerio could possibly work.

You did the right thing. But it would be better if both parties were honest at the beginning to avoid waste of time and energy. A good thing is you discovered the incompatible expectations and views before commitment and the best thing is you did it before marriage.

[Vasilisa]

.


here's a question for you
Would you work for two years as a cashier (or whatever 'low class' kinda job) to help *build* a better life for yourself and your partner? Or is that beneath you because it would make you unhappy?

.

Do you mean me?! Or any RW ?!
As for me it depends on the situation,  I could  do that, even more than that, depending on the situation, I wouldn't like to do that for the rest of my life though. And definitely not with the person like OP. I have actually worked in a store in the US but the plan was to go to college eventually.

[happyandstable]

Ok I’ll step up to the plate and state for the record. I am not looking for a cheap cow. I am not even looking for a cow. I am looking for a truly equal life partner that wants to do more then sit a home and watch TV and complain about how bad her life is. In an equal partnership both parties have to take responsibility to work together toward the same goal of attaining that better life. IMHO if you can find such a life partner you have already achieved that better life, you are both hopefully looking for

There is no improvement of life if both parties are not working together for the common goal. You will never achieve anything by pulling in opposite directions.

It is easy to complain about the opposite gender. It is far more insightful to try and understand their point of view. Communication is the key to any successful relationship no matter what kind of relationship that may be. It is by communication that we achieve personal growth. Without personal growth no one can have a full and happy life.

[ECOCKS]

I believe you are coloring the RW with too much gold paint, gold as in golddigger.  All that you describe seems more like a gold digger.  Yes, there are gold diggers aplenty in the FSU.  However, every woman is different. 
 
Having faced much turmoil in the 1990s, the RW in their 30s and 40s attach much significance to security.  They do not want to worry about money.  There are plenty of poor RM in their own country.; why move to America and live in poverty with a man who she really does not know?   Is what you are describing more about the young RW in their 20s?
 
I recall Aloe's story.  Her attitude was reasonable, and in fact delightful.
 
The more damning words of entitlement came in Reply #3 of this thread:   "She brings a 30-year age difference to the table. Sorry, you have to pay for that..."

Cool, you believe what you wish to believe and I will do the same.

The picture of the average FSUW painted in the majority of the replies in this thread portray an accurate picture of FSUW (IMO).

All believe what they wish no matter how much evidence is placed under their noses.

The remarks show pretty conclusively a sense of entitlement as the term is generally used. Whether most of those who read through this will believe it is reality or simply persist that they have the ability to pick the needle from the hay stack after pushing their hand into the rick a few dozen times is up to them.