Pro-dater?

[ghost of moon goddess]

 
And this is coming from a man brought up and lived most of his life in the east-end of London.

Don't Adam and Eve it !   
Chelseaboy, is there a CRS term for "pro-dater" ?

[Chelseaboy]

Ghost,
            I was born in the German hospital,Hackney,London,and spent the majority of my mis-spent youth and young adulthood associating with people of ill-repute,so you'd better Adam and Eve it 
 
However,i can honestly say,despite the fact i've known and run with dodgy geezers for much of my life,i never have and never will scam anybody.
Like many east-end boys our word is our bond. If we say something we mean it...whether that's good or bad for the recipient of those words.
If we say we're going to do something,then we do it.
 
As for pro-daters,i'd never heard of the term till i joined these forums,and experienced one for myself in Kiev.
Yeah we get the good-time girls who try it on,but they quickly get sussed out,word gets around,and they end up on their own,with a screaming kid, in a council flat on Thamesmead or some other less than salubrious  estate.
 
However,this whole FSU,particularly Ukraine, pro-dater business,with girls enticing men from other countries,just to scam those men out of interpreter fees,apartment price mark-ups,over-priced taxi scams,English language classes scams,Visa scams,all based on the deception that they have feelings for those foreign men is something else...pretty despicable without any honour,and there are many thousands of girls involved in it.
 
The nearest i've seen is the bar girls of Bangkok,and it wasn't unusual to see one of those girls with two or three foreign boyfriends,all of whom thought they were the "one".
If girls were doing that here,they'd be ostracised.Prostitutes would be given more respect,
 
Obviously,our laws here mean the agencies wouldn't be allowed to operate as they do in Ukraine anyway.
Scammers tend to get put away here..
The really sad thing is that these pro-daters will give a bad impression of Ukrainian women abroad,just as the bar-girls give a bad impression of Thai women abroad.
 
     

[CDW]

Prostitutes would be given more respect,
 
 
   

I would prefer going out with prostitutes than with these pro-daters, because at least I know where I stand. 

[CDW]

Ghost,
       
As for pro-daters,i'd never heard of the term till i joined these forums,
 
   

Same here!

[CDW]

The question is how to avoid pro-daters?

1.  Girls too good to be true

2.  wearing expensive clothes, shoes and handbags - unless she is a model or an actress, the real question is how can she afford this

3.  They only have studio photos.  Professional studio photos are very good to impress themselves on men, but the photos cannot tell you their real everyday life or their personalities.  That's why I prefer to have 'real' photos - not only 'Studio' photos. 

4.  Girls in photos in good-looking car or to show off - same reason as Number 2

5.  They have Blackberry, iPad, Apple Mac PC - too many of them - certainly materialistic girls and maybe as pro-daters also   (unless she is a model or an actress or working in professional 'design' industry)

6.  They live in 'Western' style interior home.

7.  When you meet them, asking you to go to expensive restaurants, so on

Can you fill in more ..............

[Shadow]

Chelseaboy you are making some mistakes here. First of all you simply overestimate the number of women involved in these practices.
There are not thousands of women in Ukraine (or Russia) living of the income foreign men offer. Hundreds maybe but not thousands.

Second these women are part of a subculture that has largely disappeared in Britain. As you may know a hundred years ago it was fashionable for rich men to have mistresses, women who were maintained by their suitors and lived in good standing as ling as they could find men (one or more) to keep them occasional company.
This is something that has maintained presence in the FSU. Rich men like there are many to be found in Kiev and Moscow and surroundings have no problem spending money on a flat for a mistress (or more than one). And these mistresses have plenty of time to waste on filling their lives with other things.
Women who enjoys such life (and yes not every woman does) will not have a problem with international suitors. And at a time one of them gets too sticky as in having interest in marriage, will turn them down.

It is an option an attractive woman has, and one that has largely disappeared due to the 'formalization' of our economy and less possibilities to hide funds in a way the wife can not find out what is happening.

Now its easy to convict these women, at the same time they have chosen this path, and only the ones smart enough will know that in the job of mistress most get a very early pension. By the time they are ready for retiring, they will be interested in finding a man for marriage. And as their local reputation might reduce their chances, they could look international. During this process they will not kick their habits, so apart from the guy that is eventually 'chosen' others will feel they met a pro-dater.

These women fill a gap in the market, just like any other service provider. However very often a guy turned down will throw out fake accusations of the woman using him, making it look like there are far more in this game as is reality.

[Shadow]

The question is how to avoid pro-daters?

1.  Girls too good to be true

2.  wearing expensive clothes, shoes and handbags - unless she is a model or an actress, the real question is how can she afford this

3.  They only have studio photos.  Professional studio photos are very good to impress themselves on men, but the photos cannot tell you their real everyday life or their personalities.  That's why I prefer to have 'real' photos - not only 'Studio' photos. 

4.  Girls in photos in good-looking car or to show off - same reason as Number 2

5.  They have Blackberry, iPad, Apple Mac PC - too many of them - certainly materialistic girls and maybe as pro-daters also   (unless she is a model or an actress or working in professional 'design' industry)

6.  They live in 'Western' style interior home.

7.  When you meet them, asking you to go to expensive restaurants, so on

Can you fill in more ..............

There are many Russians and Ukrainians in the main cities who can afford luxury. You can throw them out if that intimidates you, but it does not mean that just because they carry expensive items they are pro-daters.

Russians prefer quality over quantity, which means they would rather carry a single expensive item as having a closet full of Walmart.
Similar in electronic equipment they wish to parade the latest fashionable item for their neighbours, even if they have to save a year to buy it.
So do not judge the book on the cover, but keep your eyes on the whole picture.

[Chelseaboy]

CDW,
         Staying away from pay per letter/chat sites is one good way of  helping to avoid  pro-daters,and making sure that the girl we're communicating with isn't on those sites,showing herself on webcam .

[Chelseaboy]

Shadow,
           I appreciate and understand what you're saying.
 
I don't agree with your estimate of how many girls are involved in the pro-dating business however.
 
On HRB/RLM alone,there are now 17,360 girls operating,99% of them being from Ukraine,with the majority of them aged 18-30.
How many of those girls do you seriously think are looking for a foreign husband ?
 
They are there because they're getting paid to chat,often all through the night,or because they get a cut of the income from letters and gifts sent to them through those sites.
The bonus is when foreign men visit them,so they can do their pro-dating,although it may well not be their full-time occupation.

[CDW]

CDW,
         Staying away from pay per letter/chat sites is one good way of  helping to avoid  pro-daters,and making sure that the girl we're communicating with isn't on those sites,showing herself on webcam .

Chelsea

I always avoid pay per letter/chat sites even though I had joined one or two of these sites - never paid a penny of it.  One of them - received 1st letter FREE, so I had the opportunity to read for FREE! 

I always prefer webcam before meeting.  No webcam = no meeting!

Man City

[CDW]

There are many Russians and Ukrainians in the main cities who can afford luxury. You can throw them out if that intimidates you, but it does not mean that just because they carry expensive items they are pro-daters.

Russians prefer quality over quantity, which means they would rather carry a single expensive item as having a closet full of Walmart.
Similar in electronic equipment they wish to parade the latest fashionable item for their neighbours, even if they have to save a year to buy it.
So do not judge the book on the cover, but keep your eyes on the whole picture.

And spend nothing on the man?????  Not even on his birthday/Christmas  ???

Materialistic girls are more likely to have MANY expensive items  - not just a single expensive item. 

Materialistic girls are VERY EASY to read.  You need to avoid them before getting further with them.

[Shadow]

Shadow,
           I appreciate and understand what you're saying.
 
I don't agree with your estimate of how many girls are involved in the pro-dating business however.
 
On HRB/RLM alone,there are now 17,360 girls operating,99% of them being from Ukraine,with the majority of them aged 18-30.
How many of those girls do you seriously think are looking for a foreign husband ?
 
They are there because they're getting paid to chat,often all through the night,or because they get a cut of the income from letters and gifts sent to them through those sites.
The bonus is when foreign men visit them,so they can do their pro-dating,although it may well not be their full-time occupation.

There are 17.360 profiles. That is not proof of 17.360 girls.
As for looking seriously, why not go through them and tell me?
After all without PROOF it are just wild accusations on the girls and profiles.
So I will see you post again with statistics after you have had a chat with all 17.360 women on that site. Good luck!

[Shadow]

And spend nothing on the man?????  Not even on his birthday/Christmas  ???

Materialistic girls are more likely to have MANY expensive items  - not just a single expensive item. 

Materialistic girls are VERY EASY to read.  You need to avoid them before getting further with them.

They will spend on a man they like. IF they do not, you know your place.
As for having many items, any woman will hold as much as she can. The level of shown materialism equals opportunity.
If you wish to avoid materialistic women, stay single.

[CDW]

Russians prefer quality over quantity, which means they would rather carry a single expensive item as having a closet full of Walmart.

Being in fashionable doesn't necessary to be very expensive.  I, happen to be an expert in fashion, because I own fashion business!

Many good latest fashionable clothes are better than a single expensive clothing!    It doesn't have to be "Walmart" (or "Primark" for UK)  clothes.

Many girls who loves fashion, know how to buy fashionable clothes to impress men and feel good for themselves.  Same goes for good hairstyles, have their nails done.   But, with expensive clothes,  it is something different.

[CDW]

They will spend on a man they like. IF they do not, you know your place.
As for having many items, any woman will hold as much as she can. The level of shown materialism equals opportunity.
If you wish to avoid materialistic women, stay single.

Are you saying that all women are materialistic ???????

[Shadow]

Being in fashionable doesn't necessary to be very expensive.  I, happen to be an expert in fashion, because I own fashion business!

Many good latest fashionable clothes are better than a single expensive clothing!    It doesn't have to be "Walmart" (or "Primark" for UK)  clothes.

Many girls who loves fashion, know how to buy fashionable clothes to impress men and feel good for themselves.  Same goes for good hairstyles, have their nails done.   But, with expensive clothes,  it is something different.

Having worked in Sports I am well aware that good quality does not have to be expensive, as well as expensive often does not have to mean good quality.
I still use these skills when buying, including calculating back to how much an item would have cost the importer....
However the 'status' of a brand often is important, which is a pity if you look at the profit margins they can get for some junk.
Good thing in the FSU is that there is always the option to 'rebrand' something good.

[Chelseaboy]

Shadow,
              I don't have to prove anything.
 
According to the CEO of HRB/RLM all girls on those sites have attended the local agencies with their passports for verification.
Copies of those passports are then faxed to HRB/RLM offices,before the girls are allowed to put their profiles on the sites.
 
Now,if you're calling the CEO of HRB/RLM a liar,then i suggest you prove it.
 
I will see you post again when you have the proof he's lying...Good luck !
 
 

[Shadow]

Shadow,
              I don't have to prove anything.
 
According to the CEO of HRB/RLM all girls on those sites have attended the local agencies with their passports for verification.
Copies of those passports are then faxed to HRB/RLM offices,before the girls are allowed to put their profiles on the sites.
 
Now,if you're calling the CEO of HRB/RLM a liar,then i suggest you prove it.

You are the one making accusations towards them, so the burden of proof is on your side.
As for the procedures at HRB/RLM, I am sure they are in place, as I am sure that some of the Ukrainian agencies will try to circumvent them. Some might succeed, others will get caught and cut off the gravy train.
So when are you going to prove your accusations?

[Chelseaboy]

Shadow,.
 
I've just stated facts,and the facts are that there are 17,364 girls profiles listed on the HRB/RLM sites.
You're the one stating that is not proof of 17,364 girls,so you're the one making accusations...capiche?
So,when are you going to prove your accusation ?
And don't try and squirm out of this,as the burden of proof is on your side.
 
Now ,if you wish me to chat with all 17,364 girls on that site at USD 0.80 per minute,to see how serious they are,then you can finance it,so put your money where your mouth is,and arrange to pay me through this site,so it's all above board.
 
I will be quite happy to put a full report on here about each girl,captured screenshots of letters and chat etc.
 

[Shadow]

Shadow,.
 
I've just stated facts,and the facts are that there are 17,364 girls profiles listed on the HRB/RLM sites.
You're the one stating that is not proof of 17,364 girls,so you're the one making accusations...capiche?
So,when are you going to prove your accusation ?
And don't try and squirm out of this,as the burden of proof is on your side.
 
Now ,if you wish me to chat with all 17,364 girls on that site at USD 0.80 per minute,to see how serious they are,then you can finance it,so put your money where your mouth is,and arrange to pay me through this site,so it's all above board.
 
I will be quite happy to put a full report on here about each girl,captured screenshots of letters and chat etc.

You are the one who claims they are there because they get paid to chat. So prove it. And no, on your dime as you are the one who made such claim.

My claim was that the number of profiles might not equal the number of girls active. Which is very simply checked by looking at profiles that do not have activity for over a year, profiles that have the same picture etc.

However your claim of girls not being interested in finding a husband but being paid to chat needs proof. Get it or admit it is an unfounded accusation based on rumours.

[Hammer2722]

 

[Chelseaboy]

Shadow,
               For your information there is nothing on each girls profile to state when they were last active.Some girls change their photo's,others don't even though they're still active, so try again Sherlock,and stop squirming.
 
As for the girls you want the proof you pay for it ,and you can pay for my valuable investigative time also.,because you're starting to annoy me with your laughable attempts to deflect from your statement that there is no proof there are 17,360 girls on those sites.

[Shadow]

Shadow,
               For your information there is nothing on each girls profile to state when they were last active.Some girls change their photo's,others don't even though they're still active, so try again Sherlock,and stop squirming.
 
As for the girls you want the proof you pay for it ,and you can pay for my valuable investigative time also.,because you're starting to annoy me with your laughable attempts to deflect from your statement that there is no proof there are 17,360 girls on those sites.

HAve it your way if you are not man enough to back up your claims.

[Chelseaboy]

Ahh,but i am man enough to back up my claim shadow,as long as you finance the investigation.
 
If a man wants a girl investigated in the FSU he has to pay the investigator for the proof he requires,
 
So,it follows that if you require proof about the motives of all 17,364 girls on HRB/RLM then you have to pay for it.
 
Now,are you man enough to back up your statement about there being no proof there are 17,360 girls on those sites ?

[Shadow]

Ahh,but i am man enough to back up my claim shadow,as long as you finance the investigation.
 
If a man wants a girl investigated in the FSU he has to pay the investigator for the proof he requires,
 
So,it follows that if you require proof about the motives of all 17,364 girls on HRB/RLM then you have to pay for it.
 
Now,are you man enough to back up your statement about there being no proof there are 17,360 girls on those sites ?

Nope, you are making a claim you have zero proof for, as to prove it you wish to be financed.
So that makes it clear you are throwing unfounded accusations at the site but you are not willing to shell out the money to prove your claims.
That makes it clear that any claim from you about a site or woman is completely invalid from this moment on, as you are calling them out without a shred of evidence.
Now if you had taken out the time and money to actually come up with proof you would have shown to be a man. Right now you are nothing but some fool repeating what they heard elsewhere.
No need to take anything you write serious after this point.