Sick of it

[lordtiberius]

I am no fan of Hussein. He terrorized his own people but he kept a lid on things. All these Al Qaeda folks weren't running around in his country like they are now. Same goes with Gadaffi. The people in his country prospered with his pouring the oil money back into the people. Ask BillyB. His lady's mother was doing pretty good there until NATO decided to back Al Qaeda. Now with these strongmen gone we got chaos and anarchy. It's what the CIA calls "blowback." George Bush senior an old ex-CIA man himself had enough sense to leave them in place. Sunni Saddam Hussein was a buffer to Shiite Ayatollah Iran. The Obama-Clinton administrations and Junior Bush's were mislead by the demented neo-cons and their fellows at the Council of Foreign Relations. If you want to see a membership list of these creatures look up to the post to mine.

The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein.  Is the world a better place with Barack Obama as president?  You cannot conflate what has been going on in the past five years with the rest of US history.  This period is quite unique

[lordtiberius]

I am not. But I understand why he did what he did. I also recognize that we (America) instigated the revolution. If I had my way we would have stayed out of it. Crimea would still be in Ukraine. Travel over there in both regions would be safe for Americans and us guys here at RWD wouldn't be at each other's throats. But it's not that way. For me I am not going to choose sides. For me Putin is the devil we know who is probably better than the devil we don't know. Ditto for Hussein and Gaffafi although with them me got the next devil armed with surface to air missiles.

Putin is killing and terrorizing people I know.  What do you want me to do, tell them, he is the devil we know, get used to him?

[Shadow]

Putin is killing and terrorizing people I know.  What do you want me to do, tell them, he is the devil we know, get used to him?

Any names or just anonymous people that you claim to know?

[Maxx2]

Putin is killing and terrorizing people I know.  What do you want me to do, tell them, he is the devil we know, get used to him?

Yes, like you should have tolerated Hussein and Gadaffi. I bet Ambassador Stevens would have been with me on that last one. The world is always going to have despots. What did Truman say about Batista? "He might be a bastard but he is our bastard." 

[fathertime]

I am sorry none of this is accurate. 

The article stated that we were 'quietly' giving Egypt 100's of millions of dollars this year...I believe what the article stated is accurate. 

We give them money because we have a lot of it.  $ 3.4T exceeds the Russian economy of $ 2T. 

I believe that this country (The USA) should rethink its priorities since it is running a very large deficit and people's needs within the country are not being met, especially at the border, infrastructure, and education... expenditures such as giving BORROWED money to other nations, many of which have populations that aren't fond of our nation, should be very low on the list of things to do. People know they are being bought and I believe it causes more problems than it solves.
 
The size of the Russian economy is not relevant.   


Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

Any names or just anonymous people that you claim to know?

If you are going to call me a liar, then just cut to the chase.  If you want me to start naming names, you can start with yours.

[lordtiberius]

Yes, like you should have tolerated Hussein and Gadaffi. I bet Ambassador Stevens would have been with me on that last one. The world is always going to have despots. What did Truman say about Batista? "He might be a bastard but he is our bastard."

Truman was never right about anything.  His foreign policy was flatfooted on every issue of note from Potsdam to Korea.  Mostly because his Administration had been thoroughly infiltrated with Communists and you know this Maxx!

[lordtiberius]

The size of the Russian economy is not relevant.     

It is very relevant if its your country that is getting killed by Russians.

The article stated that we were 'quietly' giving Egypt 100's of millions of dollars this year...I believe what the article stated is accurate. 

You cite 2 articles in #205. And as I stated before we openly give them $1.4B that is 100 million dollars 14 times.

I believe that this country (The USA) should rethink its priorities since it is running a very large deficit and people's needs within the country are not being met, especially at the border, infrastructure, and education... expenditures such as giving BORROWED money to other nations, many of which have populations that aren't fond of our nation, should be very low on the list of things to do. People know they are being bought and I believe it causes more problems than it solves.
 
 

I agree with you.  And unless you believe the last election was fraudulent, we are in the minority.  And why are you complaining about money?  We are throwing trillions of dollars on " border, infrastructure, and education."  What are you getting for you money?

At least with money spent on guns and "bribes," you are getting something

[fathertime]

It is very relevant if its your country that is getting killed by Russians.

I don't see the relevance regarding our foreign aid to Egypt and Russia's 2 Trillion dollar economy.

You cite 2 articles in #205. And as I stated before we openly give them $1.4B that is 100 million dollars 14 times.

The article asserts that it was being done quietly since we (the USA) had made statements regarding cutting off Egyptian aid earlier.

I agree with you.  And unless you believe the last election was fraudulent, we are in the minority.  And why are you complaining about money?  We are throwing trillions of dollars on " border, infrastructure, and education."  What are you getting for you money?

At least with money spent on guns and "bribes," you are getting something

Perhaps you can mention what it is we are supposed to be getting for the guns and 'bribes', I can see the costs.  I'd rather see the money spent on the aforementioned items, and not on bribing foreign governments with populations that are not US friendly, in part because of our hypocrisy.
  I believe our last election was just fine. I might be more in line with current policy than what Romney would have done.   


Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

What are you complaining about? Your guy won.

[GQBlues]

...I believe that this country (The USA) should rethink its priorities since it is running a very large deficit...

Well, it pales in comparison to other indulgences our country seem to lavish itself in lately, but I'm still having a hard time trying to figure out why on earth do we need a 4.7 million square foot Embassy in Iraq that cost well over 1.3 billion dollars with 15,000 employees?

If you averaged a flat rate pay of $100,000.00/employee (not even counting travel and benefits) per year, you're looking at $ 1.5 billion dollar payroll/year not including per diem pay...

Is this the *new norm*? Maybe a huge *listening/military/strategic* station neatly situated right in the center of a budding hotbed of insurgencies, uprising, hostilities and quite literally on the footsteps of Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China and India...and many of you folks are surprised those above are a bit pissed off and suspicious of us?!?

Dunno...methinks maybe a humble 20,000 square footer would've done the usual embassy skits like they seem to be in most places, but 20 times the size of a usual? 108 acres? We need that? That's almost as big as the Vatican (109 acres)!

[Maxx2]

GQ, the numbers could be a hundred times that and it wouldn't phase these guys. It's not about reasoning and truth seeking it's about winning arguments.

[lordtiberius]

Gimme the embassy.  1.9 B for an embassy while the IRS tech department has a budget of 2B but can't produce Lois Lerner's emails?

OK boys . . .

What does this have to do the RU?

[fathertime]

What are you complaining about? Your guy won.

What do you care what I decide I'm interested in?


Fathertime! 

[Shadow]

If you are going to call me a liar, then just cut to the chase.  If you want me to start naming names, you can start with yours.

As you wish. Uness you can produce evidence for what you state, you are a liar.

[fathertime]

Well, it pales in comparison to other indulgences our country seem to lavish itself in lately, but I'm still having a hard time trying to figure out why on earth do we need a 4.7 million square foot Embassy in Iraq that cost well over 1.3 billion dollars with 15,000 employees?

If you averaged a flat rate pay of $100,000.00/employee (not even counting travel and benefits) per year, you're looking at $ 1.5 billion dollar payroll/year not including per diem pay...

Is this the *new norm*? Maybe a huge *listening/military/strategic* station neatly situated right in the center of a budding hotbed of insurgencies, uprising, hostilities and quite literally on the footsteps of Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China and India...and many of you folks are surprised those above are a bit pissed off and suspicious of us?!?

Dunno...methinks maybe a humble 20,000 square footer would've done the usual embassy skits like they seem to be in most places, but 20 times the size of a usual? 108 acres? We need that? That's almost as big as the Vatican (109 acres)!

Thanks for posting that little factoid....what an abomination.  We have built a country within their country and for what purpose?  The cost of running that thing will be an ongoing outrage.   Something is fishy about it for sure.   I wonder what the Iraqi's think of us building this complex in their city? I wouldn't blame them for being angry.


Your math is a little off though....this thing we built is not 20, but 200 times larger than the 20,000 square footer you proposed.


Fathertime!     

[lordtiberius]

Thanks for posting that little factoid....what an abomination.  We have built a country within their country and for what purpose?  The cost of running that thing will be an ongoing outrage.   Something is fishy about it for sure.   

Something fishy?  How about some perspective.  The country of Iraq is ceasing to exist and you are complaining about a bunch of buildings that in a couple of months will cease to exist.  And here is where having some country knowledge actually helps because the Green Zone was an old Saddam palace. 

Most of the outposts we occupied during the war were former Bathist, Saddam or Army headquarters - no go zones for Iraqis already unless you were guests - i.e. going to get tortured or raped in front of your family or conversely watch a family member get raped or tortured. 

That is what people like Rand and Ron Paul are defending when they say, we never should have gone or at least he kept a lid on things.  And let's not fool yourselves.  Saddam built a safe haven for terrorists especially if you were Palestinian, why do you think ISIS members have so many Baathists and taking revenge on Saddam's enemies?  But believe what you want because facts don't matter to some people even as others are dying in the street like dogs.

I wonder what the Iraqi's think of us building this complex in their city? I wouldn't blame them for being angry.

Again, country knowledge, these people have seen 10 years of civil war and lived under 30 years of Saddam.  The couple years of normalcy are gone.  And normalcy was really anything but if you know something about our policies on protecting those people (one of the reasons why I left the military.)

We have a visa program to get our interpreters out of Iraq, both Bush and Obama have blocked them from coming.  They are getting killed.  So back to your question, the angry ones have already picked up a gun and killed their neighbor.  The ones that haven't picked up a gun or aren't actively collaborating with this evil are dead or have fled.

Happy Ron Paul?  You are de facto advocate for ethnic cleansing.   

Your math is a little off though....this thing we built is not 20, but 200 times larger than the 20,000 square footer you proposed.

If you read the wikipedia entry, you would know that it was bigger but cost less than the figures you cited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_States,_Baghdad

But again country knowledge, Saddam built over 300 palaces because he did not want to sleep in the same place every night.  So we troops had plenty of places to stay.  But you know that in staying in these places, that people died within these walls for doing what you take for granted, saying things like 'I disagree' and 'no, Uday you cannot rape my wife/daughter/sister/girlfriend.'

But some people like the Pauls and Obama prefer this . . .

For those of you that are wondering what the Dickens should we do about it?  LTG McInnery was on Hannity and let the cat out of the bag that the Gulfies - Qatar, Saudi, et. al- (not a friend to America) have banded to together to create this anti-Shiite firewall in response to the vacuum Obama created in the Iraq drawdown.  Any solution (political/diplomatic) will have to include them before we bomb people who are using our equipment and have in their ranks our citizens (Islam is a religion of peace.)

Country knowledge.  Get some.

[lordtiberius]

What do you care what I decide I'm interested in?

I asked you first

[fathertime]

   And normalcy was really anything but if you know something about our policies on protecting those people (one of the reasons why I left the military.)

What a quitter!

Country knowledge.  Get some.

I believe ‘knowledge’ filtered through your brain and then typed here no longer qualifies as knowledge, rather mostly biased angry gibberish.

Most of the outposts we occupied during the war were former Bathist, Saddam or Army headquarters - no go zones for Iraqis already unless you were guests - i.e. going to get tortured or raped in front of your family or conversely watch a family member get raped or tortured. 

That is what people like Rand and Ron Paul are defending when they say, we never should have gone or at least he kept a lid on things.  And let's not fool yourselves.  Saddam built a safe haven for terrorists especially if you were Palestinian, why do you think ISIS members have so many Baathists and taking revenge on Saddam's enemies?  But believe what you want because facts don't matter to some people even as others are dying in the street like dogs.

Again, country knowledge, these people have seen 10 years of civil war and lived under 30 years of Saddam.  The couple years of normalcy are gone.  And normalcy was really anything but if you know something about our policies on protecting those people (one of the reasons why I left the military.)

[/size][size=78%] [/size]
You can pretend to care, but you say you QUIT!   
 
Despite your silly defense of it, we should not have built a billion dollar 4.7million sq ft. embassy in Iraq with our tax dollars.  That is the American people’s money and I doubt 5 in 100 would approve of such a waste.  It won’t be surprising if it winds up being expensive rubble in the years to come.  These overseas military adventures are very unpopular with the American people at large, and I believe they are weakening (rather than strengthening) our overall standing worldwide.  We have items here at home to take care of rather than giving Egypt billions for weapons and constructing billion dollar embassy's.   

I asked you first

Tsk Tsk Tsk....Very childish! 


Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

Thanks for posting that little factoid....what an abomination.  We have built a country within their country and for what purpose?  The cost of running that thing will be an ongoing outrage.   Something is fishy about it for sure.   I wonder what the Iraqi's think of us building this complex in their city? I wouldn't blame them for being angry.


Your math is a little off though....this thing we built is not 20, but 200 times larger than the 20,000 square footer you proposed.

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. The actual embassy structure is roughly half-million SF but the infrastructure/territory, which includes apartment bldgs, power plants, amenities, etc...total that 108 acres.

Methinks the site likely houses our GMDs - Ground-based Midcourse Defense systems. An intercept missille system we have and have installed up and down the westcoast from Alaska to Sta Barbara's Vandenburg AFB. They've been conducting testing for almost 2 decades now. Many Californians never wonder why we have an excessive amount of contrails streaking across our western skies. Reports will tell you that this is a very successful systems with a hit-ratio of almost 100%. Strategically speaking Iraq can be front and center right in the midst of our present day adversaries...

Opponents to these types of program however offer a different view.

"...“It’s time to name the program for what it is, corporate welfare for big defense contractors using money stolen from programs to benefit those whose taxes pay for it,” he said. “From our children’s education, to our deteriorating infrastructure, to the betrayal of our veterans and the benefits they were promised, this program, along with our bloated defense spending in general, need to be scaled back and the money put to life-giving programs.”..."

http://www.noozhawk.com/article/missile-defense_interceptor_flies_from_vandenberg_afb

So you see, you're not alone. Me? I'd rather spend the money into any program in defense of our nation than waste it on people who broke our laws and sovereignty then demand entitlement.

If you don't want excessive, unnecessary spending and would rather see the monies spent on infrastructure (this is mostly BS btw - there's no such thing as *federal roads* unless the roads are IN federal lands. Roads, hwys and frwys are either local or state maintained - which are in a totally separate tax pots), then lobby for a politician who will abolish public unions, all of it, especially the USPS. They all are a farce. WE end up paying for THEIR pension plans despite the Union bosses collecting those dues for years and disappear. Google Ron Gettlefinger and see how much of a bonus he received AFTER the auto bailout when they said the Big 3 were barely solvent and UAW (private U.) was in life support.

[lordtiberius]

What a quitter!

I believe ‘knowledge’ filtered through your brain and then typed here no longer qualifies as knowledge, rather mostly biased angry gibberish.

[/size][size=78%] [/size]
You can pretend to care, but you say you QUIT!   
 
Despite your silly defense of it, we should not have built a billion dollar 4.7million sq ft. embassy in Iraq with our tax dollars.  That is the American people’s money and I doubt 5 in 100 would approve of such a waste.  It won’t be surprising if it winds up being expensive rubble in the years to come.  These overseas military adventures are very unpopular with the American people at large, and I believe they are weakening (rather than strengthening) our overall standing worldwide.  We have items here at home to take care of rather than giving Egypt billions for weapons and constructing billion dollar embassy's.   

Tsk Tsk Tsk....Very childish! 


Fathertime!

You had an opportunity to refute the facts and arguments I have laid before the forum and you have chosen to insult me.  The pro-Russian camp uses three tactics when confronted with the facts: change the subject, attack the challenger and reality denial.  I cannot get angry with you for calling me childish because on other occasions I have been childish with you. I had it coming. Though not on these past posts, I have, on other occasions, attacked you personally.  The moderators sanctioned me for it and its time to move on.  And looking back on it, it is not something I am proud of and I regret and for that I apologize to you and those who read it.

If you have an argument about Russia or Ukraine or American foreign policy, I am interested in your ideas.  If you are interested in insulting me, it's your right.  You can judge who well it helps your cause.  I will be raising the issue of personal attack with the moderators.  I am not targeting you per se because I don't think you are the most egregious offender.  But what if what is good for the goose is good enough for the gander, then the rules should be enforced evenly and justly.  I find that the pro-Ukrainians use facts and unfortunately the pro-Russians are delving more and more into the absurd.  Absurdity is allowed according to the TOS but not personal attacks.

[Maxx2]

I think everyone should chill out with name calling and labeling people.

[Shadow]

 I find that the pro-Ukrainians use facts and unfortunately the pro-Russians are delving more and more into the absurd.  Absurdity is allowed according to the TOS but not personal attacks.

Strange enough I find the exact opposite. Let's meet in the middle.

[fathertime]

You had an opportunity to refute the facts and arguments I have laid before the forum and you have chosen to insult me.  The pro-Russian camp uses three tactics when confronted with the facts: change the subject, attack the challenger and reality denial.  I cannot get angry with you for calling me childish because on other occasions I have been childish with you. I had it coming. Though not on these past posts, I have, on other occasions, attacked you personally.  The moderators sanctioned me for it and its time to move on.  And looking back on it, it is not something I am proud of and I regret and for that I apologize to you and those who read it.

If you have an argument about Russia or Ukraine or American foreign policy, I am interested in your ideas.  If you are interested in insulting me, it's your right.  You can judge who well it helps your cause.  I will be raising the issue of personal attack with the moderators.  I am not targeting you per se because I don't think you are the most egregious offender.  But what if what is good for the goose is good enough for the gander, then the rules should be enforced evenly and justly.  I find that the pro-Ukrainians use facts and unfortunately the pro-Russians are delving more and more into the absurd.  Absurdity is allowed according to the TOS but not personal attacks.

If you are insulted by my take on things, that is ok with me!


I've stated my case regarding Egyptian foreign aid, the Iraq Embassy, and our potential involvement in the Ukrainian issues and other military adventures...if anything, your positions have solidified my thoughts on the matters.  Most of the time, what you call a fact I call a bunch of bull. 
You SAY you quit the military because they didn't do things the way you wanted them done...whatever, I really don't care or need to know...i'm sure there are two sides to that story anyway. 


Even little Fareed Zakaria is chastising Egypt....meanwhile we send them 1 billion more of our tax dollars. 


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. The actual embassy structure is roughly half-million SF but the infrastructure/territory, which includes apartment bldgs, power plants, amenities, etc...total that 108 acres.

Methinks the site likely houses our GMDs - Ground-based Midcourse Defense systems. An intercept missille system we have and have installed up and down the westcoast from Alaska to Sta Barbara's Vandenburg AFB. They've been conducting testing for almost 2 decades now. Many Californians never wonder why we have an excessive amount of contrails streaking across our western skies. Reports will tell you that this is a very successful systems with a hit-ratio of almost 100%. Strategically speaking Iraq can be front and center right in the midst of our present day adversaries...

Opponents to these types of program however offer a different view.

"...“It’s time to name the program for what it is, corporate welfare for big defense contractors using money stolen from programs to benefit those whose taxes pay for it,” he said. “From our children’s education, to our deteriorating infrastructure, to the betrayal of our veterans and the benefits they were promised, this program, along with our bloated defense spending in general, need to be scaled back and the money put to life-giving programs.”..."

http://www.noozhawk.com/article/missile-defense_interceptor_flies_from_vandenberg_afb

So you see, you're not alone. Me? I'd rather spend the money into any program in defense of our nation than waste it on people who broke our laws and sovereignty then demand entitlement.

.

Interesting speculation regarding the missiles.


Yeah I hear you regarding what NOT to overspend on...the border crossing issue needs to be addressed...Throwing money at about 10,000 more border guards (instead of 1 billion to Egypt) should send the message.  There is supposed to be a protocol for entering this country, so the prez needs to take care of it. 


Fathertime!