Am I getting scammed?

[ML]

I didn't see Tiffany in the back of my comic books.  I went back and looked.

She was on the pages that are now stuck together.

[Spygreg]

Bud wrote back again today.  What a crock he tried to feed me.  He said the Ukrainian agencies control the dating market in Ukraine, so they can't do much.  He also said if she (the lady) refused to sign the IMBRA from, then there isn't anything we can do about it on our end.  Of course we know she refused to sign the form because the trustworthy, obviously legitimate Ukrainian marriage broker wouldn't lie to make a few bucks, that would be unethical! So I guess that means they have no idea what their contractors are doing and aren't about to intervene.

I wrote back and said I  understand, so how much to send the IMBRA form? Someone wants my money right? No reply, and I'm guessing I never will get one. It wouldn't do much for selling of a tour if they sent her the IMBRA form would it. No surprise there as I expected as much. I just wanted to see the reply.

So, I can honestly say now, AFA is a farce!  They only want one thing, to sell tours.  Their letter writing service is a total farce.  We will never know which of the women are real.  But we know they wan't to charge money to meet them, or at least hope to meet them.  While your at it, why not spend a few grand and come on a tour!  That way if the woman you paid $200 to  meet doesn't show up, you can meet another.  Don't worry about the $200 you wasted on the introduction or the $400 you spent on letters, we have plenty more for you to meet for the 4k you just dropped on this tour!  The tours are such a great deal! So their website says. 

I think I need some Prozac after this Bulls@@t!  Or maybe just some good rum!   I feel like I just got stroked, but they didn't quite finish the job!         

[alex330]

He said the Ukrainian agencies control the dating market in Ukraine, so they can't do much.  He also said if she (the lady) refused to sign the IMBRA from, then there isn't anything we can do about it on our end.  Of course we know she refused to sign the form because the trustworthy, obviously legitimate Ukrainian marriage broker wouldn't lie to make a few bucks, that would be unethical!

So, I can honestly say now, AFA is a farce!  They only want one thing, to sell tours.  Their letter writing service is a total farce.  We will never know which of the women are real. 

Well, he is right in a way. They agencies control the commodity (hot women) so run the show. Many times they are run by organized crime. The upstream (AFA) is on it and and knows full well the woman is not real though.

[BillyB]

So, I can honestly say now, AFA is a farce!  They only want one thing, to sell tours. 
   

They sell porn too. A few porn sites list the Custodian of records at AFA's office. If you use a dating site instead of an agency, you won't have to deal with IMBRA forms when doing a k-1.

[Spygreg]

They sell porn too. A few porn sites list the Custodian of records at AFA's office. If you use a dating site instead of an agency, you won't have to deal with IMBRA forms when doing a k-1.

Or lie LOL.  They didn't even ask when I sponsored my ex wife. Our meeting was " Met on business trip".  Never had an issue.  (granted it was the truth, but they didn't know if it was or not.  They didn't check.) 

[2tallbill]

I have never stayed in a Ukrainian apartment.  Don't you give up some of the conveniences of a hotel?  Like a restaurant and bar in it? 

There are several threads about the advantages of an apartment vs a hotel.
The biggest advantage for an apartment is that you can cook and play house.
If you get hungry at 4:00am because of jet lag you can make a sandwich. In
a hotel with a restaurant (which would be closed) you would have to get
dressed and walk around outside to try to find someplace to eat.   

Most girls won't visit you in your room in a hotel because the workers at the hotel
will assume she is a hooker. They might give her grief or try to extract a commission
from her (because they have house hookers).

You will have zero chance of watching an FSUW walk around in her panties tidying up
or cooking breakfast in your hotel room. Most apartments have a washing machine
so you don't have to pack as many clothes for your trip.

However after reading all the posts, it appears that it's so unlikely that this women even exists in Donetsk, that there isn't much point.  I would love to be able to send her a letter basically saying if it's really you, contact me here without the agency.  But if no woman in Donestk would even consider an American, then it's pointless.  I'm still unsure why a woman in Donestk would be anti American. Most Americans don't even really understand the situation there. I know we as a nation support Ukraine, but it certainly has very little, if any, to do with what life I would have with my future wife here.

The girl probably exists but likely has no idea who you are and it's very doubtful that
she exchanged any letters with you. You probably exchanged letters with a university
English student who gets paid to cut and paste letters.

A girl in Donestk has enough problems to deal with and could be desperate to leave.
My advice is to always avoid desperate girls since they tend to act desperately.

Udachi!

Bill

[jone]

Bill,

Here is the other side of the coin: 

I like going to a hotel because of security, easily identified location and, finally, I always choose one that serves breakfast.  Also, I always thought it was presumptuous to act like the woman was going to sleep with me on the first trip to meet someone.

[Patagonie]

Bud wrote back again today.  What a crock he tried to feed me.  He said the Ukrainian agencies control the dating market in Ukraine, so they can't do much.  He also said if she (the lady) refused to sign the IMBRA from, then there isn't anything we can do about it on our end.  Of course we know she refused to sign the form because the trustworthy, obviously legitimate Ukrainian marriage broker wouldn't lie to make a few bucks, that would be unethical! So I guess that means they have no idea what their contractors are doing and aren't about to intervene.

I wrote back and said I  understand, so how much to send the IMBRA form? Someone wants my money right? No reply, and I'm guessing I never will get one. It wouldn't do much for selling of a tour if they sent her the IMBRA form would it. No surprise there as I expected as much. I just wanted to see the reply.

So, I can honestly say now, AFA is a farce!  They only want one thing, to sell tours.  Their letter writing service is a total farce.  We will never know which of the women are real.  But we know they wan't to charge money to meet them, or at least hope to meet them.  While your at it, why not spend a few grand and come on a tour!  That way if the woman you paid $200 to  meet doesn't show up, you can meet another.  Don't worry about the $200 you wasted on the introduction or the $400 you spent on letters, we have plenty more for you to meet for the 4k you just dropped on this tour!  The tours are such a great deal! So their website says. 

I think I need some Prozac after this Bulls@@t!  Or maybe just some good rum!   I feel like I just got stroked, but they didn't quite finish the job!         

Many more tricks are waiting you on the tours.
They are not really fond of tours, they prefer correspondances, chats, flowers and videos which is big and easy money for them.
You are NOT experimented to go on such tours and lead the ballet, IMHO you shouldn't go with such organizations, like afa or adate.

[BillyB]

Many more tricks are waiting you on the tours.

A tour is like a buffet for the pro daters. They get there and inspect the men to find the ones that look the most naïve with fat wallets and try to get them to go on one on one shopping dates with them after the event. Pro daters are aggressive and hog all the attention. The sincere quiet girls usually sit in the corner alone. Some go home crying because they didn't get any attention or because all the men there are fools soon to be parting with their money.

[Anotherkiwi]

Bill,

Here is the other side of the coin: 

I like going to a hotel because of security, easily identified location and, finally, I always choose one that serves breakfast.  Also, I always thought it was presumptuous to act like the woman was going to sleep with me on the first trip to meet someone.

I have nothing against using hotels for overnights, but you don't necessarily get an apartment because you assume the woman is going to sleep with you!  As Bill said, you have the convenience of 4 am snacks, but there are plenty of other advantages.  Privacy is the first - I only ever had one apartment where I could hear anything which went on next door, yet every hotel (bar one) that I stayed in had walls that were thin enough to let through at least some of the noise from outside my room.

Get an apartment with a washing machine (and a dryer if possible) and you save yourself a fortune on laundry costs (and also the time spent taking clothes to a laundromat and waiting an hour or two for everything to be washed and dried), as well as (like Bill said) not needing to take quite so many clothes.  You can cook what YOU want to eat, and not have to work through a menu which may contain too many things that don't agree with you (e.g. nuts and spices in my case), although there's nothing to stop you eating out if you want to.

The apartment can also be tailored to your budget and location, which isn't always the case with hotels.  In my first trip to St Petersburg, my apartment was seriously only four minutes' walk east of Winter Palace Square and the Hermitage, and about three minutes away from the Neva River.  It cost me less than half the price of the equivalent level of hotel, and I could have had five people staying there if I was so inclined, all included in the same price that I paid for myself.

[ML]

Also, I always thought it was presumptuous to act like the woman was going to sleep with me on the first trip to meet someone.

Jone, I am surprised at these words from experienced man like yourself.

Having an apartment and inviting woman into your apartment and even offering her the choice to stay overnight (especially in the case of out-of-towners) does not mean you presume she is going to have sex with you.

I only had about 1 out of 50 women who wouldn't come into my apartment. 

And, in some of the emails before meeting, I always mentioned that my apartment would have 2 separate sleeping areas.  Most of the out-of-towners readily said they would just stay in my apartment . . . without me even suggesting it.

I never once encountered a woman who insisted that I provide a private hotel room for her.

Looking back on it now . . . it all was a little surprising and even dangerous for the women.

For instance, several years ago on one of these discussion sites, a male member asked how we men would feel if a male internet correspondent whom we had never actually met suggested that the two of you share a room.  Even assuming not a gay guy . . . most of us wouldn't feel comfortable sharing with a stranger.  Yet FSUW will do it.

[Chicagoguy]

My experience was just about the same as ML. But not the numbers. Because of our ages I believe they were not seeing any "action" with the Russian men. Several told me this flat out.

[Spygreg]

Well, he is right in a way. They agencies control the commodity (hot women) so run the show. Many times they are run by organized crime. The upstream (AFA) is on it and and knows full well the woman is not real though.

I agree, but AFA should not be advertising that the IMBRA from will be sent to the woman at first contact, without mentioning that they do not ensure she gets it.  That's very misleading.  But then again, the whole thing is misleading, so what else is new.   

[Spygreg]

I would hazard a guess Boris is really Natasha.  A lot of women supplement their incomes talking to foreign men. 


As much as it may be fun for you, I suggest you cut your losses and focus on a real woman, if that is your long term goal.

Well hell, Natasha should drop me a photo sometime.  We obviously have already started a relationship, lets see where it goes from here. LOL. 

[Faux Pas]

I agree, but AFA should not be advertising that the IMBRA from will be sent to the woman at first contact, without mentioning that they do not ensure she gets it.  That's very misleading.  But then again, the whole thing is misleading, so what else is new.

Spy, it's all a sham. Of course you know this already and you still play right into it. Don't you see the insanity of that? Are you really looking for a mate or do you just enjoy playing games? You will not win that game but if it floats your boat to keep trying, knock yourself out. Don't expect much sympathy from the posters here. Life often isn't fair, deal with it

[Spygreg]

Spy, it's all a sham. Of course you know this already and you still play right into it. Don't you see the insanity of that? Are you really looking for a mate or do you just enjoy playing games? You will not win that game but if it floats your boat to keep trying, knock yourself out. Don't expect much sympathy from the posters here. Life often isn't fair, deal with it

I wasn't looking for sympathy.  I just find it odd that an American company can do things like this and not face a consequences at some point. Most companies either get sued or just lose business and go under if they are constantly being deceitful.  It just puzzles me that they can keep on doing what they do, screwing over their customers, while Adams makes more and more money and nothing happens to him.  If I had a business and I made my money misleading people I would probably be in jail.  Not this twit, he just keeps on going! 

[Faux Pas]

I wasn't looking for sympathy.  I just find it odd that an American company can do things like this and not face a consequences at some point. Most companies either get sued or just lose business and go under if they are constantly being deceitful.  It just puzzles me that they can keep on doing what they do, screwing over their customers, while Adams makes more and more money and nothing happens to him.  If I had a business and I made my money misleading people I would probably be in jail.  Not this twit, he just keeps on going!

I believe it was PT Barnum that said "There's a sucker born every minute". The longer you tarry on with this bullshit you're living proof of that. Are you looking to be an investigator for the Better Business Bureau or are you looking for a mate? Which is it?

As for AFA and Adam vote with your pocketbook. Tell the newcomers of your experience with the fraudsters but move on with your search. They're reputation has been in the shitter for years and they are still making money hands over fist because of folks like you, you keep sending it to them. The longer you bang your head against the wall over getting screwed the longer you will be looking. It's time to get busy living brah. Move on

[Spygreg]

I believe it was PT Barnum that said "There's a sucker born every minute". The longer you tarry on with this bullshit you're living proof of that. Are you looking to be an investigator for the Better Business Bureau or are you looking for a mate? Which is it?

As for AFA and Adam vote with your pocketbook. Tell the newcomers of your experience with the fraudsters but move on with your search. They're reputation has been in the shitter for years and they are still making money hands over fist because of folks like you, you keep sending it to them. The longer you bang your head against the wall over getting screwed the longer you will be looking. It's time to get busy living brah. Move on

Whatever dude. Save it for someone who wants it.

[Boethius]

So why not do something constructive, such as investigating the feasibility of a class action lawsuit against AFA? 

[GatoMoon]

They sell porn too. A few porn sites list the Custodian of records at AFA's office. If you use a dating site instead of an agency, you won't have to deal with IMBRA forms when doing a k-1.

One of the Colombian dating sites  (now no longer exist)  also sold 'porn' site too, because my 'almost' ex-girlfriend told me too!  (As a matter of fact, we spoke today in Facebook - not about it though)

[Faux Pas]

Whatever dude. Save it for someone who wants it.

Just makes too much sense for you, doesn't? 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I wasn't looking for sympathy.  I just find it odd that an American company can do things like this and not face a consequences at some point. Most companies either get sued or just lose business and go under if they are constantly being deceitful.  It just puzzles me that they can keep on doing what they do, screwing over their customers, while Adams makes more and more money and nothing happens to him.  If I had a business and I made my money misleading people I would probably be in jail.  Not this twit, he just keeps on going!

People don't want to do their own due diligence.


Do a Google search on AFA review.


Then again, once they do that the dream is dead. 

[Spygreg]

So why not do something constructive, such as investigating the feasibility of a class action lawsuit against AFA?

That would be an awesome idea,  but it would take a lot of cooperation from many witnesses and someone who could coordinate it all. There are many who were taken for far more than me. My loss wouldn't interest an attorney,  bit they're are plenty whos would. 

[Spygreg]

Just makes too much sense for you, doesn't? 

Of course I'm changing my strategy,  im not continuing with AFA. Just because i comment on the the events doesn't mean I'm being suckered.  Calling a thief a mother fxxxxr isn't giving in to him,  it's just venting and sharing.  There was even a request to keep the group updated,  so i did.  You telling me I'm being a sucker is nonsense.  I curse out well deserving
People frequently and it makes me feel better.  So unless you become a licensed therapist,  and i employ you,  i really don't value your opinion about my bitch session with much regard beyond being annoying.

[Faux Pas]

Of course I'm changing my strategy,  im not continuing with AFA. Just because i comment on the the events doesn't mean I'm being suckered.  Calling a thief a mother fxxxxr isn't giving in to him,  it's just venting and sharing.  There was even a request to keep the group updated,  so i did.  You telling me I'm being a sucker is nonsense.  I curse out well deserving
People frequently and it makes me feel better.  So unless you become a licensed therapist,  and i employ you,  i really don't value your opinion about my bitch session with much regard beyond being annoying.

Yes as long as you piss and moan about being taken by one of the biggest con games on this board and giving AFA more play, you're a sucker.

Anytime you post your pity party on the boards, rather you value my opinion or not doesn't make one shit. You get it if I decide to give it. Whether you use it or not is up to you Cowboy