league and age gaps

[HiTech]

TurboGuy: Do you happen to know any Smith from Smith meat market?

HiTech

[KenC]

You really have first hand experience over a period of more than 8 years! I just wonder why you do NOT use your experience to support your own advice (for others) to avoid age gap relationship if you say the advice is based on your experience.

 Look at your objections to my comments. They are built by method “what if” and the following words after “what if” are opposite to your experience.

#1 what if young wife will not staying home playing nursemaid in opposition the fact that your wife took care of you.

 Yes, everything may happen and a younger wife may be reluctant to playing nursemaid. On the other hand the same age wife also may be reluctant to playing nursemaid; there are lazy women OR be unable to do that.
Thus, the fear a wife will not be playing nursemaid may live at heart of a man who is not at age gap relationship as well. Hence this difficulty is not caused by age gap.

Sorry but you gotta be nuts if you don't think you will be put into this position with a 37 year difference.  Age gap doesn't relate?  You gotta be kidding.  Or more appropriate, lying to yourself, unless of course you are only planning on a short term marriage.  BTW, I did get first hand experience with this when I had some health issues earlier this year.

#3 What if a young wife will cheat…again in opposition to your own experience. What if the wife will satisfy herself by herself and she will not cheat her husband 
 Method “what if” works well when you need to threaten or to elate children. The method does not work if one tries to use it as a foundation for his argument.

There is no "what ifs" about Turbo being in his 80's when you hit your sexual peak in your 40's!  That isn't a "what if", that is a fact Jack!

#4 if I remember correctly none of your wives worked. So what you think about how the career will influence on a couple is just an assumptions which can be right, as well as wrong.

Lena is finishing up her American education right now and career plans are in the process of being made.  As I see it, we are much much further down that path than you are right now.  You have no clue as to what you may or may not face.  You are at the infintile stage of just learning the language and it will take years for you to be fluent enough to be affective in the business world.

#5 if I say you what I would do at Beaver Falls in which way it will help you to support your argument that only older women like the slow style of life who will have pleasure in doing nothing (reading magazines, visiting beauty salon, watching TV and other similar things)

You missed the point entirely here.  An woman more age appropriate to Turbo would allow for a better acceptance among his friends and peers, so she would not be ostrocized from the group as you will be.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Sorry but you gotta be nuts if you don't think you will be put into this position with a 37 year difference.  Age gap doesn't relate?  You gotta be kidding.  Or more appropriate, lying to yourself, unless of course you are only planning on a short term marriage.  BTW, I did get first hand experience with this when I had some health issues earlier this year.

I am not sure what you are saying here Ken.   Are you saying Lena had no interest in taking care of you when you were sick?   I agree with VWRW.   It will be far more a case of the individual person than the age or age difference.    I have seen young women with great compashion that would almost enjoy taking care of anyone and older women that would be slipping anyone rat poison after the first day.

There is no "what ifs" about Turbo being in his 80's when you hit your sexual peak in your 40's!  That isn't a "what if", that is a fact Jack!

Actually women are supposed to hit their sexual peak in the late 30s.   By mid forties they are going downhill fast and would much rather watch a good soap.  That puts me barely out of my 60's.  I don't know two many men after 5 years of marriage who would not be happier with a little more than they get so I won't be complaining about her peak.

Lena is finishing up her American education right now and career plans are in the process of being made.  As I see it, we are much much further down that path than you are right now.  You have no clue as to what you may or may not face.  You are at the infintile stage of just learning the language and it will take years for you to be fluent enough to be affective in the business world.

I can't deny that Lena has an 8 year head start on VWRW but I would be very surprised if Lena has the drive VWRW does.   VWRW has gone in a couple of years from not knowing English to knowing some words I don't.   Her vocabulary is probably as good or better than half the American women.   She has some rough spots in pronunciation and in sentence structure but she is a very focused and determined woman and I think those will soon pass behind her.  It won't take her long to have her English where it needs to be. 
 
You missed the point entirely here.  An woman more age appropriate to Turbo would allow for a better acceptance among his friends and peers, so she would not be ostrocized from the group as you will be.
KenC

Ken, as I have already said I have the advantage because most of the people I know either work for me or are trying to sell me something.   I don't expect that to even be a tiny problem.   I think the social side of life is much more important to you and Lena than it is to VWRW and myself as well.   It really does not matter to me what my friends think.   If it bothers them it wasn't a real friendship anyway.

[I/O]

 

I/O

[KenC]

 
Turbo,
You ask for examples of difficulties in age gap marriages.  You are given reasonable logical problems.  You dispell these reasonable and logical difficulties with double talk and bullsh!t.  I am done with you.  Good luck (because you are going to need a whole hell of a lot of it!  Make that a "miracle")
KenC

[Turboguy]

I do appreciate your input to my questions.   That particular set was in response to VWRW's comments.  Actually that did not cover the things I asked about but you have given some answers to that in the other threads and I really appreciate that.  I know you are a little more guarded with things about your life than I am so I was happy that you chose to share that information.  I found it very interesting and helpful. 

The comments can fall into different categories.   One is hypothetical possibilities a couple might face as the both age.  Well there are always many possible variations in the hypothesis.   Another is why VWRW and I won't succeed and I am sorry but if I don't agree with the thoughts then I think it helps complete the discusson to show how we fell those factors will affect us.  The other variation which was the only question I recall asking was about the difficulties a married couple face in the early stage before advanced age enters the picture and to be honest I recall very little discussion about this in the past and some good points have come out.  I think those things are good and it is not something I can argue with.   I guess if there was something that would not effect us I might note that or if I have some observation or speculation but for the most part that is the kind of thing I had asked about and I enjoyed your input and that of the others as well.   There is no argument against good hard facts.

[KenC]

I do appreciate your input to my questions.   That particular set was in response to VWRW's comments.  Actually that did not cover the things I asked about but you have given some answers to that in the other threads and I really appreciate that.  I know you are a little more guarded with things about your life than I am so I was happy that you chose to share that information.  I found it very interesting and helpful. 

The comments can fall into different categories.   One is hypothetical possibilities a couple might face as the both age.  Well there are always many possible variations in the hypothesis.   Another is why VWRW and I won't succeed and I am sorry but if I don't agree with the thoughts then I think it helps complete the discusson to show how we fell those factors will affect us.  The other variation which was the only question I recall asking was about the difficulties a married couple face in the early stage before advanced age enters the picture and to be honest I recall very little discussion about this in the past and some good points have come out.  I think those things are good and it is not something I can argue with.   I guess if there was something that would not effect us I might note that or if I have some observation or speculation but for the most part that is the kind of thing I had asked about and I enjoyed your input and that of the others as well.  There is no argument against good hard facts.

Turbo,
You "don't recall" because you choose to ignore the facts that relate to your situation.  And yes, these are facts collected from real life experiences.  It is only you and VWRW that live in a hypothetical world all of your own.
KenC

[Misha]

Turbo,
You "don't recall" because you choose to ignore the facts that relate to your situation.  And yes, these are facts collected from real life experiences.  It is only you and VWRW that live in a hypothetical world all of your own.
KenC

Well, there are facts and then there are probabilities or odds. Hypothetical situation: I am driving down a narrow mountain road coated with black ice at 100 miles per hour. While driving, I can state that it is a fact that I have not crashed down the cliff and that the fact that I am still on the road is proof that I am capable of pulling it off. I would say that these are all facts, but you could counter that the odds are stacked against me and that it is pretty much guaranteed that I will crash before I reach the bottom. Will I have liked the ride? Maybe. Can you say with 100% certainty that I will crash and die? No. Would you recommend that someone else speed down the same mountain road based on your knowledge of the odds of success? NEVER!

[HiTech]

gabuab: I liked your analogy.

But also ask what advise would you give someone already on the slippery road, I assume it would not be, do not get on that slippery road. Because that is what most of the advice I have seen given so far, and very little as to how to navigate and increase your chances once you find yourself on that road.

I have also seen a lot of people just trying to prove the road is slippery.
I have also seen people trying to prove that the road is not slippery for them.

HiTech

[KenC]

Turbo: "What ice?  There is no ice that I can see!!"

Crash!!!!!!!!!!

[Misha]

gabuab: I liked your analogy.

But also ask what advise would you give someone already on the slippery road, I assume it would not be, do not get on that slippery road. Because that is what most of the advice I have seen given so far, and very little as to how to navigate and increase your chances once you find yourself on that road.

I have also seen a lot of people just trying to prove the road is slippery.
I have also seen people trying to prove that the road is not slippery for them.

HiTech

First step: you must realize that driving down that mountain road at 100 miles per hour is not the best strategy, but you will do your best to survive. You do not want to push down on the accelerator, you don't want to touch the brakes either (equivalent to telling your wife that you now realize that you are too old and that you want a divorce for her sake) rather you want to take your foot off the pedal and when you steer you do not want any quick jerks to the left or right which will make you lose control. In married life, this would mean being careful to make any snap decisions without thinking them through. If you are lucky, you will gradually slow down and will drive at a more reasonable speed before falling off the cliff. In a hypothetical case where a 80 year old is married to 30 year old, you have to do your best to make sure that your final years will be comfortable, you  have to realize that you have a responsibility to your wife and that you should be doing everything in your power to ensure that she will be able to walk away instead of being left in tangled wreck beside you at the bottom of the cliff. Finally, when riding down that mountain road, you should not be sending text messages to other drivers saying that you are in control and that it is perfectly safe to do what you are doing  

[jb]

gabaub, HiTech,

I like the way you guys think, however there is just one thing you aren't taking into account.  That is: Only you can make yourself happy,,, nobody else is in charge of your happiness,,, only you.   A man may think getting hitched to a sweet looking young smokinhotkova will make him happy, but the reality is that she is not responsible for him being happy, or not.  She may in fact make him miserable.  I know for sure I cannot make my wife happy.  I can be nice to her, give her attention, and buy gifts, and sometimes that makes her feel good for the moment, but a "feel good for the moment" does not equate to a person's overall state of mind we think of as "happiness".  Only she can make herself happy, if I'm a part of her happiness then that's a big part of what makes a marriage work.  This is why I think I understand Ranetka's position when she said she woke up one day and realized she was unhappy, she knows that the burden of her happiness is in her own hands, the old geezer she was married to was not the fountain of her happiness.  Regardless of what others may think of her, she does not deserve to live a life of sacrifice and drudgery trying to make someone else happy because that's their job, not her's. 

I further suspect that vwrw will, one day in the not too distant future, also have that same "wake up" moment.

[HiTech]

jb: Funny you mention that, it is one thing I include in my intro letter, I state it as, I am looking for some one who does not want a man to make them happy, but considers themself lucky to have met 
the man they love.

I also have been involved with women who believe it is your job to make them happy.

HiTech

 

[BC]

gabaub, HiTech,

I like the way you guys think, however there is just one thing you aren't taking into account.  That is: Only you can make yourself happy,,, nobody else is in charge of your happiness,,, only you.   A man may think getting hitched to a sweet looking young smokinhotkova will make him happy, but the reality is that she is not responsible for him being happy, or not.  She may in fact make him miserable.  I know for sure I cannot make my wife happy.  I can be nice to her, give her attention, and buy gifts, and sometimes that makes her feel good for the moment, but a "feel good for the moment" does not equate to a person's overall state of mind we think of as "happiness".  Only she can make herself happy, if I'm a part of her happiness then that's a big part of what makes a marriage work.  This is why I think I understand Ranetka's position when she said she woke up one day and realized she was unhappy, she knows that the burden of her happiness is in her own hands, the old geezer she was married to was not the fountain of her happiness.  Regardless of what others may think of her, she does not deserve to live a life of sacrifice and drudgery trying to make someone else happy because that's their job, not her's. 

I further suspect that vwrw will, one day in the not too distant future, also have that same "wake up" moment.

Wow.. a few really illuminating posts lately and this is one of 'em..  Thanks jb.

[Misha]

gabaub, HiTech,

I like the way you guys think, however there is just one thing you aren't taking into account.  That is: Only you can make yourself happy,,, nobody else is in charge of your happiness,,, only you.   A man may think getting hitched to a sweet looking young smokinhotkova will make him happy, but the reality is that she is not responsible for him being happy, or not.  She may in fact make him miserable.  I know for sure I cannot make my wife happy.  I can be nice to her, give her attention, and buy gifts, and sometimes that makes her feel good for the moment, but a "feel good for the moment" does not equate to a person's overall state of mind we think of as "happiness".  Only she can make herself happy, if I'm a part of her happiness then that's a big part of what makes a marriage work.  This is why I think I understand Ranetka's position when she said she woke up one day and realized she was unhappy, she knows that the burden of her happiness is in her own hands, the old geezer she was married to was not the fountain of her happiness.  Regardless of what others may think of her, she does not deserve to live a life of sacrifice and drudgery trying to make someone else happy because that's their job, not her's. 

I further suspect that vwrw will, one day in the not too distant future, also have that same "wake up" moment.

I agree, ultimately we make ourselves happy or miserable. Sadly, many try to take shortcuts to happiness and today's happiness quickly becomes tomorrow's misery. It seems to me that the entire debate boils down to this: Turbo and his wife saying optimistically we will beat the odds and will be happy now and in the future. Many others are saying that the odds are good that it will be another train wreck. However, as we do not have a crystal ball, the only real proof will be time. If both are still happy and married and alive in 5 years, then we can confirm that they were an exception. Until then, you can only hope that the love and happiness is real and not self-delusion. Having been in a bad marriage, I understand that we all truly want to be happy, but times takes its toll on any marriage. To badly paraphrase a Russian writer: all happy marriages are pretty much the same, but all unhappy marriages are unique in their misery! [My apologies to the Russians here who know the exact quote :-)]

[ScottinCrimea]

Turbo,  You have been spouting your delusions for such a long time now that I'm surprised that you haven't developed some sort of system.  You could simply assign a number to each one, then when someone posts questioning your rationale or sanity, you can just write, "Refer to delusion #27".  It would save yourself and everyone else here a lot of wasted time.

[Turboguy]

Good idea Scott.  Actually it would work well for both sides.  Maybe we could even write a computer program and enter it into the data base with a random name generator.    Someone starts an age differnce thread and the program kicks in.

KenC   47
Turboguy 22
Scott,  17
Turboguy 66
Kuna 33
Turboguy 22

Good plan


Gabaub,  Good post.  I agree and have said a few times we can discuss it all we want but if we are successful it will be a long time before it is decided.   We have a really wonderful relationship and there is nothing anyone could say that would talk either of us out of it. 

I may be outnumbered in this but I do have a better view of the situation than anyone else (except VWRW).

[Photo Guy]

Scott, why are saying Turbo is 'spouting' delusions? If he and VWVR are
both happy together, why contest it? All that matters is their happiness, not
the opinions of outsiders. Obstacles can be overcome, whether it's
a language barrier, an age difference, or whatever. Look at KenC's
age difference- in an apparently ideal marriage.  Each couple must
choose their own rules.  -doug

[KenC]

Scott, why are saying Turbo is 'spouting' delusions? If he and VWVR are
both happy together, why contest it? All that matters is their happiness, not
the opinions of outsiders. Obstacles can be overcome, whether it's
a language barrier, an age difference, or whatever. Look at KenC's
age difference- in an apparently ideal marriage.  Each couple must
choose their own rules.  -doug

Photodude,
No one is trying to convince the old fart of anything.  He continues to interject his situation into every age related thread with delusional double talk and half azz illogical nonsense.  Maybe you can relate?
 
KenC

[Turboguy]

PG,  Nice to see you.  It's been a while.   Hope things are going well for you.

Photodude,
No one is trying to convince the old fart of anything.  KenC

You think you were laughing.   That is the silliest thing I ever read.

[jb]

Wow.. a few really illuminating posts lately and this is one of 'em..  Thanks jb.

I still have my moments of lucidity, your welcome.

[ScottinCrimea]

Scott, why are saying Turbo is 'spouting' delusions? If he and VWVR are
both happy together, why contest it? All that matters is their happiness, not
the opinions of outsiders. Obstacles can be overcome, whether it's
a language barrier, an age difference, or whatever. Look at KenC's
age difference- in an apparently ideal marriage.  Each couple must
choose their own rules.  -doug

So you feel that all of TG's posts are sound, logical and rooted in reality?  Time to have your medication adjusted.

 You're wrong, they can't choose their own rules.  There is a law of cause and effect.  They maybe create the cause, but the effect is out of their control.

[jb]

Scott,

I don't think you were around during the PhotoGuy debacle, but you need to understand that you are responding to the King of Delusion here.  There has never been a more deluded individual in the history of the RWD.  P/G is the prize winning, hands down,,, pie in the sky, (blue berry by flavor),,, most self deluded person I've ever seen.  And I think I've seen a bunch.

Thank you P/G for making an appearance here as we discuss self delusion,,, no doubt you are the in-house resident expert.

[Turboguy]

Wow!   I said that one of the things I liked about RWD is the opportunity to learn.   Now I have learned that anyone with an opinion that does not agree with Scott's opinion is illogical, not rooted in reality and needs to be on medication.  

The hard facts Scott are that you have your opinion and I have mine.   Yours are based on probability and mine are based on a first hand knowledge of VWRW and myself and a much better view of the realities of our relationship.    One of us has to be wrong.   I am quite sure it will be you but the only way we will know is to let a lot of time pass and see where things are.  I am glad we are all having fun with this in the meantime.

jb, you are funny sometimes.  PG may have been a little blinded by love but he was not the first and won't be the last. 

[jb]

I remember a line from an old movie,,, "No one is so blind as he who will not see",,, that kinda describes the self delusional members here.  It's a common theme for the P/Gs and T/Gs of this world who were warned repeatedly of the impending cockup, yet blindly goes on his merry way into the pit.  I no longer feel sympathy for these guys.  When things finally go tits up forever, you do not deserve pity,,, just contempt.  You guys make your own bed,,, you are the ones who have to sleep in it.