Big City Women!!!

[goforit]

The term “Moscow Woman” or “Big City Woman” is a synonym for educated woman with high goals, the talent for achieving them, and experience with worldly ways.  Such women can be found anywhere in the FSU, yet I feel they are more abundant in the big cities, whether born there or gravitated there.  Among these women, an unknown number also manifest the set of qualities touted about RW – family values, feminine, sexy, etc.   Such duality is perfect for me.  Add to that the fact that many are gorgeous…. it is like a dream. 

To avoid Big City Women because they have many options is a decision each man must make based on his own merits.   To avoid them because of claims such as insincerity and expensive is invalid.

Nevertheless, there are fine women everywhere; it is your job to find them and woo them.  Good luck gentlemen wherever your journey takes you.

And to that all God's people said, "Amen"

[goforit]

Yes, Seattle and its suburbs, is the best and most beautiful place I have ever been too, except Vancouver, BC of course. 

Yes Vancouver, BC is a beautiful place. I absolutely love visiting and dream of having a second home on Vancouver Island. I am planning on opening an office in BC as I begin my journey of internationalizing both my business and my personal life.

[I/O]

I/O, It seems to me that your argument is a bit flawed.  It's like saying that the odds of finding a winning table in Las Vegas are 50% (I wish!) but the odds of finding one in one particular casino are 87%.  You're basically saying that you would rather try out all of the casinos because there is a larger number of tables to choose from rather than going to the casino with the greater odds.

Usually the bigger the casino, the bigger the payout. Nevertheless, Scott, no, that is way off. The point of quick calculation was to challenge the notion that the chances were higher of success in Uzbekistan than Russia. Taking the posters percentages and calculating the number based on that it leaves roughly twice the available number FITTING THE CATEGARY in Russia. So the flaw is in the premise of higher chances where there is lower numbers. IMO it is simply a no brainer, although I understand the point that is being made.

Basically, what is happening as a result of the competition and economics getting more competitive, and desperation decreasing in Russia, is that some guys seeking are drifting further and further afield to find someone. Seems to me if this were to go on long enough most would end up back searching at home. BTW, I don't think that will be the case any time soon.

This whole idea of condemning some place or another because of the "Way the women are" is often a case of sour grapes because they guy hasn't achieved what he set out to in that location. More often than not, the fault seems to lay with the guy, rather than the demographics of a given location IMO.

Muscovites seem to come under the spotlight for attitude at times and yes I have noticed a certain attitude in some Muscovites, but by and large the complaint seems to come from some guy who has had his arse handed to him by a Muscovite.

This whole, "Run away from where the numbers are" idea smells to me of guys who aren't up to the mark and spend forever searching for some hidden nut under a distant tree somewhere. I admit it is difficult for me to get a grip on this thought process as I never went to Russia looking for a wife and was never actively searching as such, although as is any red blooded male, prepared to survey the options and open to the idea if it comes. I came into this process as a result of travel, I did not come into travel as a result of this process.

OTOH, if a guy is seriously and actively searching for a wife as his first priority, then yes, perhaps he should go digging wherever. Nevertheless, the most obvious point to start is where the greater numbers are. In the example up thread, the greater numbers are certainly NOt in Uzbekistan, although I've no doubt there is very nice women there.

I/O

[Shadow]

Muscovites seem to come under the spotlight for attitude at times and yes I have noticed a certain attitude in some Muscovites, but by and large the complaint seems to come from some guy who has had his arse handed to him by a Muscovite.

Whenever someone talks about that women in smaller cities are 'more willing' to marry WM I can not help but get the feeling of 'escape artist vs white knight'. For a woman who is in love it will not matter a lot where she is going to live, as long as she has a reasonable idea of the reality of the place. And as Russians mostly see the USA from movies, they image the whole country is a mix of New York and Las Vegas. One of my wife's friends was invited to the USA and went there on holiday ( a young 21 year old single woman who got a tourist visa without problem). After one week she was dying to go back to Moscow and leave the 'village' she got in to.
If she will marry an American, she will be ready to live there though, without the prior illusions.

[Jazzyclassy]

 


I/O

You have such a nice pic as your avatar  

[AnastassiaAsh]

haha, cool! Somebody showed his face at last. I hope this will happen more and more often with other members. 

[WmGO]

1.  The term “Moscow Woman” or “Big City Woman” is a synonym for educated woman with high goals, the talent for achieving them, and experience with worldly ways.  Such women can be found anywhere in the FSU, yet I feel they are more abundant in the big cities, whether born there or gravitated there.  Among these women, an unknown number also manifest the set of qualities touted about RW – family values, feminine, sexy, etc.   Such duality is perfect for me.  Add to that the fact that many are gorgeous…. it is like a dream. 

2.  To avoid Big City Women because they have many options is a decision each man must make based on his own merits.   To avoid them because of claims such as insincerity and expensive is invalid.

[I added the one and two]

1.  HOLD it! Stop the presses! 

Let us be clear without involving Sovietesque propaganda double speak:

"Big City Women" means and can only mean ONE THING: a women from a very large city!!!    [sorry for the clue bat Gator].

As far as FSU is concerned, make no mistake about it: the phrase ONLY refers to women from Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kiev or Odessa who were
either born and raised there, or moved there at a young age, or who moved there so long ago that the affects of living in a very large city has had time to influence their attitudes, mentalities etc. in a significant way.  The phrase has no legitimate definition outside this context.

Everything else is just ad hoc added surplusage of no value towards defining the phrase.

2.  Agree with first sentence SOMEWHAT but object to the, yes somewhat arrogant use of the phrase "options" (which is basically suggesting BC Moscow women are superior) but not the generalization in the second - what WM need to be aware of with BCW from M, SP, K and O is that SOME of them will have a certain MENTALITY as a result of being from and/or living there that SOME (probably most) WM will find undesirable. And that *mentality*  very often will be the negation of the latter part of Gator's unneccesary expansive definition ( especially the part about about family values, etc.).

There can be no doubt that being from a gigantic megalopolis can have both negative and positive effects on people. This is just as true of NYC, London and Paris as it is Moscow. The goal of most WM, especially AM , is to avoid the negatives. [And of course the inverse can be true of  W from truly small towns].

P.S. Is it just me or am I the only one that got the feeling from Jazzy's above posts that anything outside Moscow is "the village"?   I didn't see any objection to that notion from any of the other FSUW posters either. Quite telling?

   

[vwrw]

Big city attracts women who think they have a lot of talents which they want to sell more expensive than they could in their own cities. Some of the women do have the talents, but most of them are simply self-deluded.  Most of these self-deluded women have high expectation which their future husbands must satisfy to keep them happy, and have nothing to give in return except praising their imaginary merits. 
 
 I think good analogy could be “American Idol” contest. Thousands of people came to participate in the contest thinking they have talent and worthy of being “American Idol” and only few of them were worthy in reality.

[Blues Fairy]

Big city attracts women who think they have a lot of talents which they want to sell more expensive than they could in their own cities. Some of women do have the talents, but most of them are simply self-deluded. 

Right! The poor deluded souls, they spend years pursuing successful careers, living exciting lives, meeting interesting people and traveling the world, just to feed their sorry delusions I suppose. 

[BC]

Big city attracts women who think they have a lot of talents which they want to sell more expensive than they could in their own cities.

Sounds like the droves of women heading towards Hollywood and end up in the adult entertainment industry.

Those looking to be a 'star' need not apply.  Many others though move to Moscow for other reasons and realise better successes than were possible at home.

[Simoni]

"Big City Women" means and can only mean ONE THING: a women from a very large city!!!    [sorry for the clue bat Gator].

As far as FSU is concerned, make no mistake about it: the phrase ONLY refers to women from Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kiev or Odessa who were either born and raised there, or moved there at a young age, or who moved there so long ago that the affects of living in a very large city has had time to influence their attitudes, mentalities etc. in a significant way.  The phrase has no legitimate definition outside this context.

Everything else is just ad hoc added surplusage of no value towards defining the phrase.

Hogwash, as us native Texans say when we encounter dirty water!

The only surplusage of the term big city is the by the author of the post above.

Marina is from a city of more than a million NOT on WmGo's list.  Believe me, it is a "Big City."  In Ukraine, and bigger than Odessa.

BTW-- I have lived in three of the largest US cities, and found Marina's city to be quite similar in the aspects that make a city a city.

[mischief]

As far as FSU is concerned, make no mistake about it: the phrase ONLY refers to women from Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kiev or Odessa who were
either born and raised there, or moved there at a young age, or who moved there so long ago that the affects of living in a very large city has had time to influence their attitudes, mentalities etc. in a significant way.  The phrase has no legitimate definition outside this context.

Everything else is just ad hoc added surplusage of no value towards defining the phrase.

Ok... evidently FSU for you is Russia and Ukraine... then, how come you include Odessa which is ranking forth after Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk? ...

[vwrw]

they spend years pursuing successful careers, living exciting lives, meeting interesting people and traveling the world,
 

Most of women relocated to Moscow have this kind of life only in their dreams when they have some strength left after 12 hours’ work.

Sounds like the droves of women heading towards Hollywood and end up in the adult entertainment industry.

Those looking to be a 'star' need not apply.  Many others though move to Moscow for other reasons and realise better successes than were possible at home.

I was not talking about those looking to be a 'star'.

If many of people who moved to Moscow got successes then where from appears the huge number of miserable and tired looking and poorly dressed people on street of Moscow. Maybe they are native mockvichi?

[WmGO]

Hogwash

Although I would agree that a city of 1 Million plus is a big city,
you are missing the point: the subject at hand is  about comparing
and contrasting the *attitudes* and *mentalities* of FSUW from
the large mega cities vs. the rest of FSU.

Moscow - 8 to 10 million?
Kiev - 3 to5 million?
St. Pete - 2 plus million AND the cultural capital of Russia
Odessa - probably not quite a mega city but the fact remains
             vis a vis mentality/attitude issues and concerns

Again, I agree 1 million plus is a big city, and could certainly have
relevance to the issue at hand..........which could therefore include
a *few* other FSU cities other than the ones mentioned, BUT which
probably do not have such far reaching impacts on mentalities and
attitudes as do the Big Three/Four.

The main thing is as I pointed out: BCW means a woman from a BIG city,
not personal characteristics and attributes as Gator suggested.

[WmGO]

Ok... evidently FSU for you is Russia and Ukraine... then, how come you include Odessa which is ranking forth after Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk? ...

See my above response to Simoni's post. This should answer your
question.

In addition, perhaps there is something about Odessa that has had
an unusual impact in relation to it's size on the mentalities and attitudes of the women there?  Which is not so evident in Dnp or Kharkov? And perhaps this is changing?

Oh, yes, I am only referring to R and U, not Belarus (Minsk - never been there) or other former FSU countries..........

[I/O]

Those who want to argue what is or is not a "Big City" are pretty much wasting there time because there is many (Population) big cities all over the FSU. Dots on map often represent 1 or more million. Pointless. Moscow might have the numbers but there is much more than that to it.

Take a look at a rail map of the entire FSU and what do you see? Everything is centred around and directs towards Moscow. That IMO is what makes Moscow what it is. Was it the biggest first? Yes of course but again more than that. It is/was the political and financial centre and I don't see that changing any time soon.

As for Russia and Ukraine, the big 3, Moscow, St P and Kiev are seen by Russians, generally speaking, to be where the action is. The younger progressive Russians are looking for that action. My SIL and her partner are thinking this way right now. Based in Omsk, a Siberian city of 1.2 - 1.5 and doing well economically, they are doing quite well in their mid 20's. They are way in front of the game by Russian standards. A quite healthy small business, 2 apartments, 2 cars and so forth. IMO, if they keep their heads down for a few years, they will be very well off by any standards, much more so Russian standards...............BUT, they too are thinking Moscow or St P because they perceive more action (Business wise) there.

I've tried to talk sense into him a few times because I think ultimately they will do much better where they are, but young and adventurous they are and I can see merit in their wanting to throw everything they have got "at it" whilst they can.

My point is that the "progressiveness" or perception thereof is what makes the big 3 the big 3. Believe me, when one is standing on the street outside Cascade in Omsk at rush hour, one sure as hell feels like they are in a BIG city, but by comparison to the big 3, it ain't, notwithstanding 1.2 - 1.5 million people.

I/O

[Simoni]

Although I would agree that a city of 1 Million plus is a big city,
you are missing the point

Actually, the point is totally different than what is being discussed here.

I'll limit my comparisons between the US and the FSU.

But here is something to think about...

The FSU is covered with big cities.  Much more so than the US. 

So just from the shear numbers, the likelihood is that the new guy here will date, and marry, a girl from a "big" city.

And when she gets to the US, she very well may live in a smaller city.   And even if she lives in a US city of a half million or million, she will think it is like a village, because of the lack of public transportation and viable downtowns.

So while some may argue there are just a few big cities in the FSU, there are scores of them.  And to a city, they are "true" cities with urban centers and mass transit.

The malls have destroyed American cities, as well has cheap gas and hot cars.

Now we will begin to pay the price for our senseless decadence, as oil supplies dwindle and China demands more gas, and the size of our SUVs shrink.

Bottom line?   The typical FSU girl thinks her city in Ukraine or Russia is "better" than the "city" you move her to in the US.  And in many ways, she is correct.

[Blues Fairy]

Most of women relocated to Moscow have this kind of life only in their dreams when they have some strength left after 12 hours’ work.

How many women relocated to Moscow do you personally know?

[vwrw]

How many women relocated to Moscow do you personally know?

Not many.   What I know is that somebody makes up the quantity of poor people in Moscow. If most relocated women enjoy financial rewards then who make up the poor people quantity? Relocated men? People who born in Moscow? Who?

[ScottinCrimea]

    this thread is hilarious. No one here is ever going to agree on anything because they are each usiing different definitions to support their own individual arguments.  They can't even agree on what they are arguing about.  The title of the thread is "Big City Women" but pages and pages later they are still arguing over what a "big city" is.
 
Perhaps they all have it wrong and the topic is really about obese women who live in cities of any size.

[Blues Fairy]

Not many.   What I know is that somebody makes up the quantity of poor people in Moscow. If most relocated women enjoy financial rewards then who make up the poor people quantity? Relocated men? People who born in Moscow? Who?

Quoted from Kommersant (2007): At least 30% of Muscovites, or three million people, make more than $1,000 per month. The income gap between rich and poor, however, shows no signs of narrowing: the incomes of the city's richest 10% exceeded those of the poorest by 41 times, and 13% of residents live below the official poverty line.

I assume those 13% below the poverty line will not consist entirely of single professional young women who came to Moscow in search of better employment.  In fact, I leave it to you to figure out the most likely demographic portrait of this group.

[vwrw]

Quoted from Kommersant (2007): At least 30% of Muscovites, or three million people, make more than $1,000 per month. The income gap between rich and poor, however, shows no signs of narrowing: the incomes of the city's richest 10% exceeded those of the poorest by 41 times, and 13% of residents live below the official poverty line.

I assume those 13% below the poverty line will not consist entirely of single professional young women who came to Moscow in search of better employment.  In fact, I leave it to you to figure out the most likely demographic portrait of this group.

Blues Fairy, Thanks for quote. So, 70% of people earn less than $ 1000 per months. Taking in consideration that Moscow is the most expensive city in the world I think they cannot afford much. It could hard to live in less expensive city like New York on $1000 per month.   

[Gator]

This thread is not about what constitutes a "Big City."  Who cares.  

It is about the behavior of women who live in larger FSU cities, particularly the Big Three.

Another thread had painted Moscow women with a label I know to be misinformed, suggesting the Big Cities should be avoided except to change planes to a remote locales with bountiful supplies of “good, sincere” women.  Whatever label we give the Moscow woman, and similar women residing elsewhere, the issue remains that these women are gettin a bum rap.

Definition of BCW

To describe them I used the words:   educated woman with high goals, the talent for achieving them, and experience with worldly ways.

Blues Fairy fashioned a complementary description: pursuing successful careers, living exciting lives, meeting interesting people and traveling the world

What's wrong with that these descriptions?  In my opinion, they are "Top Shelf" women, but that term would really attract some animosity.

Real Case Example

Such women are there in Moscow, and many are good.  I will not count my fiancee because I would seem even more biased.  So take the case of her 27-yo friend.

She has simple tastes, a good character, works in the travel business, and fluent in English and French.  In the past two months she has paid for her own trip to France and another to Brazil, both times traveling with her mother (and living like a student).  

Unlike all but a relatively few Moscow women, she listed herself with an agency.  She is the same one I reported about many months ago as having been "scammed" by a Brit - he cancelled their planned first meeting in Turkey after she purchased nonrefundable air tix with her own money.   After thinking about it, she decided not to report him to Antidate as it seemed malicious and vindictive - not her nature.

Arrogant?  Far from it - she is humble.  Insincere?  No, she is very honest and gets hurt because of it.   Expensive?  No, she rather spend money on a new travel book rather than cosmetics.  Demanding?  No, the French man she dated in Moscow is appalling and she did not dump him even though there was no future.  Westernized?  Yes, she relishes the French culture and wishes to move there.  Family?  She wants to marry and have a baby, and has started giving some attention to AM given what she has found to be an unserious nature in European men.


She is the example of a RW who would make a wonderful wife.  And she lives in Moscow.  A man running to a small city is missing a good woman.

The Arrogant BCW  

I will agree that there are many RW in Moscow who walk around with their noses up in the air.  Some are incredibly beautiful and dressed in a manner that says "kept woman" or "top end job", and they will not smile at you the way a UW will in a stinking factory town.  Western men should not concern yourselves with such arrogant women because you will never get close to them.

[Enot]

  this thread is hilarious. No one here is ever going to agree on anything because they are each usiing different definitions to support their own individual arguments.  They can't even agree on what they are arguing about.  The title of the thread is "Big City Women" but pages and pages later they are still arguing over what a "big city" is.
 
Perhaps they all have it wrong and the topic is really about obese women who live in cities of any size.

Yes Scott I agree.  No one is listening to anyone, they are only spouting their options.  

Some people have turned this into a pissin' contest ... not sure who the biggest pisser is!

[Blues Fairy]

Blues Fairy, Thanks for quote. So, 70% of people earn less than $ 1000 per months. Taking in consideration that Moscow is the most expensive city in the world I think they cannot afford much. It could hard to live in less expensive city like New York on $1000 per month.   

OK, some more stats for you, same source. 
 
The average income of the most well-off 10% of the city's population in 2006 was 129,700 rubles a month, or around $5,000. This group receives 42.5% of income in Moscow. The average income of the next 10% was 57,000 rubles, or approximately $2,200. The average does not drop to slightly below $1,000 a month until the fourth group, which means that a minimum of three million of Moscow's 10.5 million residents live on more than $1,000 a month. "This index could be the envy of many European cities," said Yaroslav Lisovolik of Deutsche UFG."

I hope you do understand the meaning of the word "average" in the context of income statistics (kids, retired folks included).  Consider the demographic context as well.  In which of the above income brackets would the bulk of young single professional women most likely be?