A child from Russia is killed in the USA

[Jazzyclassy]

What are you trying to say by preferring silence, and what can I particularly do, a simple student with a low paid job, I can not adopt those kids and I do not communicate with oligarchs and moreover I am not in charge of their doings

I already stated my opinion and it is no use to continue saying the last word in this argument

[KenC]

Well they do have such a feature, anyway I agree that the child is dead and there is nothing people can do about it now

The source of your facts please.
KenC

[krimster]

Jazzyclassy

"I can not adopt those kids"
No, but you can volunteer to help these children, I did when I lived there for 3 years, won't cost you a kopec

"and I do not communicate with oligarchs and moreover I am not in charge of their doings"
Nor do you communicate or are in charge of any American adoptive parents, but it doesn't stop you from being critical, why, because they're foreigners?

"I already stated my opinion and it is no use to continue saying the last word in this argument"

No, I will have the last word, me, me, the last word is "fifi"

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzyclassy

"I can not adopt those kids"
No, but you can volunteer to help these children, I did when I lived there for 3 years, won't cost you a kopec

"and I do not communicate with oligarchs and moreover I am not in charge of their doings"
Nor do you communicate or are in charge of any American adoptive parents, but it doesn't stop you from being critical, why, because they're foreigners?

"I already stated my opinion and it is no use to continue saying the last word in this argument"

No, I will have the last word, me, me, the last word is "fifi"

hahah you are funny Krimster

if I had an opportunity I would help those kids , I have not got any time at all

I criticised them cos they deserved so , you criticise russians cos they are foreigners? you know it is just silly, as I already told that there are great people who adopt them from abroad, but not all of them are doing that for kind purposes.

[krimster]

Jazzyclassy,
  Instead of ONLY criticizing foreigners, why not criticize the government for mismanaging Detskii Dom?
Why not criticize Detskii Dom administrators for corruption?  Why not criticize oligarch's who looted Russia's wealth for themselves and allowed orphans to suffer?
Why not criticize Russian society for not adopting (not all Russians are poor, don't tell they can't afford it, they don't want to RAISE SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD)
BTW, the root of the topic here:
http://www.sltrib.com/justice/ci_8569196

involved two children with DOWN'S SYNDROME, why did the government choose these children for adoption, please remember an adoptive parent doesn't get to pick the child they want to adopt, they are given the child from the orphanage, oh and BTW, the husband in this article was a Russian man, oops

fifi

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzyclassy,
  Instead of ONLY criticizing foreigners, why not criticize the government for mismanaging Detskii Dom?
Why not criticize Detskii Dom administrators for corruption?  Why not criticize oligarch's who looted Russia's wealth for themselves and allowed orphans to suffer?
Why not criticize Russian society for not adopting (not all Russians are poor, don't tell they can't afford it, they don't want to RAISE SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD)
BTW, the root of the topic here:
http://www.sltrib.com/justice/ci_8569196

involved two children with DOWN'S SYNDROME, why did the government choose these children for adoption, please remember an adoptive parent doesn't get to pick the child they want to adopt, they are given the child from the orphanage, oh and BTW, the husband in this article was a Russian man, oops

fifi

well you found another article where abussive people occured to be russians, I do criticise them,
it is just I still think that not all americans who adopt russian kids do it for kind purposes, one more time will repeat this, maybe there are little percentage of such people but they do still exist and I criticise them , and praise the ones who are trully taking care of those kids and help them.

[krimster]

"it is just I still think that not all americans who adopt russian kids do it for kind purposes"

Why? Where did you hear this? Because some Russian TV program wanted to make a propaganda statement?
Look, for comparison purposes, let's say a human being occupies 1 meter of space.
There were 14 adopted Russian children who "allegedly" died of abuse or neglect (most, maybe all these children were disabled in some way)
14 children = 28 parents = a line 28 meters long (1 meter per person)
There were about 50,000 children adopted from Russia in USA with good results
This line of parents would be 100,000 meters or 100 km long!

Now which line does Russian (government) TV want to talk about, the one 28 meters long or the one 100 km long?

Do you see my point?

[Misha]

if I had an opportunity I would help those kids , I have not got any time at all

Jazzy, that is what everybody always gives as an excuse. If someone really cares about something, they make the time.

[Misha]

If you hate russians so much why you ever come on this forum and accuse people in being nationalistic? The thing that your people have money to adopt anyone they can does not make them all kind hearted and fantasticly generous ,cos sometimes they do it for some really evil purposes and as a show off , just cos it is modern and fashionable to flash adopted russian baby on some tea party among rich friends , you , americans have such a show off feature btw

As for genuine americans who really do feel for kids and adopt them just cos they wish good for those kids , we can only thank them.

Tea parties? Rich friends? Money to adopt? Jazzy, in reading the American articles dealing with the couple accused of murdering their adopted son, the one thing that struck me is how much they got into debt to finance the endeavor. They took out a second mortgage on their home to adopt two children that would require a lot of extra resources (medical, educational) to raise. This really tells me that they were not rich and they they certainly would not have had tea parties with rich friends.

Besides, who in the United States has a tea party?!? I admit that I am from Canada, but when I visited friends in the United States, none invited me to a tea party.

[krimster]

I suspect Jazzy's mention of a "tea party" came from some Russian TV show portraying the motivation of foreigners who are adopting Russian orphans as doing so for less than noble reasons ("impressing their friends at tea parties") "Oh look Edna, this is what I picked up in Kazan last weekend, his name is Oleg, is he just darling"

This is totally false.  In the past I volunteered at an orphanage in Ukraine, visited many in Russia and Ukraine, met lots of adoptive parents of Russian and Ukrainian children in the USA and Europe.  I can tell you this portrayal is a malicious and cynical lie!  All these adoptive parents I met were middle class, they spent about 25,000 USD to support the adoption process, and yes including a bribe to the directors as a "donation"

After 2 years or so of fighting the bureaucracy they finally receive custody.  Of the ones I know, more than half these children have severe problems.  Two are blind, one is severely autisitc, they were all underweight and severely underdeveloped mentally and physically.  I have watched these parents struggle with these children, seen the love they give them, the INCREDIBLE sacrifice these people make to take care of children who were abandoned FIRST by their Russian parents, and SECOND by the Russian government who confined them in institutions that are INHUMAN.

For the Russian government to then turn around and make some silly TV show that portrays these people as shallow and abusive is beyond insulting

Hey Russia, when will you show a portrayal of a Russian child adopted by a loving American family in a positive light?
The answer is never, because when you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth
 

[Shadow]

Hey Russia, when will you show a portrayal of a Russian child adopted by a loving American family in a positive light?
 

As soon as US television and media will stop portraying Russia as a third-world country that consists of drunk men and scamming women ?

[Jazzyclassy]

As soon as US television and media will stop portraying Russia as a third-world country that consists of drunk men and scamming women ?

exactly


you are trying to make me give up my perception , I wont, I have my opinion about this matter, you have your own one, so be it

I already told that there are great americans who adopt kids , but there are the ones who do that cos they want  to hurt them, there are russians, french, german and others like that, that is my point.

It is just funny how you portray yourself being without any single fault in anything you do, that makes me sick about you nation

you will never apologize or admit that you were wrong, even if everybody knows and it is evident and obvious that you are, you will never do this, anything can happen ,but you will never admit that

[KenC]

krimster,
Please do not confuse Jazzy with the facts.  They only get in the way of her spewing her biased anti-American rhetoric.
KenC
 

[KenC]

As soon as US television and media will stop portraying Russia as a third-world country that consists of drunk men and scamming women ?

Please sight your source of facts here.
KenC

[KenC]

exactly


you are trying to make me give up my perception , I wont, I have my opinion about this matter, you have your own one, so be it

I already told that there are great americans who adopt kids , but there are the ones who do that cos they want hurt them, there are russians, french, german and others like that, that is my point.

It is just funny how you portray yourself being without any single fault in anything you do, that makes me sick about you nation

you will never apologize or admit that you were wrong, even if everybody knows and it is evident and obvious that you are, you will never do this, anything can happen ,but you will never admit that

You are not stating opinions but passing off your anti-American biases as facts.

they do have such a feature

You have nothing to substantiate your accusations other than your own hatred of America and Americans.  Give us some facts please. 
KenC

[krimster]

"I already told that there are great americans who adopt kids , but there are the ones who do that cos they want  to hurt them, there are russians, french, german and others like that, that is my point."

Seems to me you cannot say something good about any foreign country without quickly adding something bad.  Seems so ingrained that it's become a habit for you, why is that?  How much Russian TV do you watch each week?

"It is just funny how you portray yourself being without any single fault in anything you do, that makes me sick about you nation"

Really?  Wow!  Here in America we have TV shows such as the Jon Stewart show and Bill Maher who rip to little pieces everything about our government and our society, you don't see these shows in Russia so you don't know about them, check youtube.com  Watch these shows and you'll get a good clue about what's wrong with America, let's just say these shows are even MORE critical than Russian propaganda.  Your statement is just wrong.  We have lots of faults, but covering them up isn't really one of them, they are hidden in plain sight!!!

"As soon as US television and media will stop portraying Russia as a third-world country that consists of drunk men and scamming women ?"

The difference is that in the USA the government doesn't OWN or directly CONTROL the content like it does in Russia.  If portraying Russians negatively sells, then that's the way they'll be portrayed, which by the way isn't fundamentally different from watching shows about Russians on RUSSIAN TV!  The difference is Russian media IS THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, not so in the USA.  The difference in content is enormous.  I watched Russian TV for three years, a never ending barrage of crude jokes and misinformation about the West. 

Russians portrayed negatively in US films???

Anastasia many versions
Anna Karenina many versions
Onegin
War and Peace with Audrey Hepburn
Crime & Punishment Miniseries
The Russia House
Enemy at the Gates
Nicholas and Alexandra

Looks to me like US television HAS stopped the stereotype (we won't address how the stereotype began in the first place)  Now show me ONE Russian film that portrays Americans in a positive light, just one...

[Shadow]

KenC, there have been enough references to movies and TV shows about Russia.

Krimster, in many countries the government owns the TV channels. Ever heard of BBC ? Owned by the UK government.
Do you feel that the same problem of Russian TV goes for the BBC, and if not then tell my why, without stooping to assumptions that because they are in Western Europe there is less mind control.

Perhaps you can give some links to examples about the Russian misinformation about the West. There are enought Russian internet TV channels to get sources from.

[groovlstk]

As soon as US television and media will stop portraying Russia as a third-world country that consists of drunk men and scamming women ?

I don't think this is correct. I agree that Western (and not just US) media is biased against Russia, but I have yet to see one of the usual suspects (Newsweek, Time, NY Times) do a story about scammers (unless the subject is phishing or electronic scams) or portraying Russia as a third-world country. Western media criticism is almost always centered on how Putin is a fascist or the glorification of thieves like the former Yukos boss. If you were to believe Western press accounts, then oligarchs are robber barons - unless they defied Putin, in which case they're portrayed as heroes who started their fortune shining shoes only to flee Russia after they were slapped for standing up for democracy.

The western press corp does the same shtick in Ukraine, always Tymoshenko is portrayed as some brave savior of reform with rarely a mention about her ties to corruption.

I'd argue that there is no conspiracy among the western press corp. The reason they write garbage is the same reason Pravda editors write garbage about the US: it's what their readers expect. Westerners love moral melodramas, and since we all know democracy is "good" then anyone who at least seems to stand up for democracy must be good, regardless if their true motivation is enriching themselves. In their effort to make stories as simplistic as possible, journalists must cast a good guy and a bad guy. Guys like Putin and Kuchma fill the role of villains perfectly, while Tymoshenko is their dream subject. I could just see managing editors salivating during the Orange Revolution: "not only is Tymo a democratic reformer, she touches on our liberal sensibilities because she's female, plus... damn, she's gorgeous! But gosh, we shouldn't seem sexist by praising a politician's beauty, let's instead focus on her TRADITIONAL UKRAINIAN hair-doo and let our readers fill in the blanks!"

exactly

Jazzy, if you want to read the most virulently anti-Russian media source then pick up a copy of The Economist. You can find a copy when you arrive in the UK, where it's published


(Sorry mom, I swore I wouldn't get dragged into this one!)

[Misha]

As soon as US television and media will stop portraying Russia as a third-world country that consists of drunk men and scamming women ?

Let's see, you have Russia Today TV a wholly state-sponsored television channel that is available on American cable tv where the misconceptions about Russia can be corrected 24/7. How many American funded television stations are available on Russian cable television with the express aim of  "spotlighting the dynamic events taking place in modern day" America? For more info on this station: http://russiatodaytv.com/.

[Misha]

Ever heard of BBC ? Owned by the UK government.
Do you feel that the same problem of Russian TV goes for the BBC, and if not then tell my why, without stooping to assumptions that because they are in Western Europe there is less mind control.

The difference is that the BBC (and our CBC in Canada) take pride in being critical of the government and politicians. Can you say the same of Russian television?

[Jazzyclassy]

I don't think this is correct. I agree that Western (and not just US) media is biased against Russia, but I have yet to see one of the usual suspects (Newsweek, Time, NY Times) do a story about scammers (unless the subject is phishing or electronic scams) or portraying Russia as a third-world country. Western media criticism is almost always centered on how Putin is a fascist or the glorification of thieves like the former Yukos boss. If you were to believe Western press accounts, then oligarchs are robber barons - unless they defied Putin, in which case they're portrayed as heroes who started their fortune shining shoes only to flee Russia after they were slapped for standing up for democracy.

The western press corp does the same shtick in Ukraine, always Tymoshenko is portrayed as some brave savior of reform with rarely a mention about her ties to corruption.

I'd argue that there is no conspiracy among the western press corp. The reason they write garbage is the same reason Pravda editors write garbage about the US: it's what their readers expect. Westerners love moral melodramas, and since we all know democracy is "good" then anyone who at least seems to stand up for democracy must be good, regardless if their true motivation is enriching themselves. In their effort to make stories as simplistic as possible, journalists must cast a good guy and a bad guy. Guys like Putin and Kuchma fill the role of villains perfectly, while Tymoshenko is their dream subject. I could just see managing editors salivating during the Orange Revolution: "not only is Tymo a democratic reformer, she touches on our liberal sensibilities because she's female, plus... damn, she's gorgeous! But gosh, we shouldn't seem sexist by praising a politician's beauty, let's instead focus on her TRADITIONAL UKRAINIAN hair-doo and let our readers fill in the blanks!"

Jazzy, if you want to read the most virulently anti-Russian media source then pick up a copy of The Economist. You can find a copy when you arrive in the UK, where it's published


(Sorry mom, I swore I wouldn't get dragged into this one!)

groovie why sorry mom?

I think it is so hard for people to be objective, you know we have a professor in our Uni who constantly gives us sources and youtube links and other articles  where they show Americans who hate Russia and how they do not know simple maths and how they are narrow minded and so on and and he gave us the Allen Dallas plan  translated in Russian about how Americans wanted and want to destroy Russia and that partially they succeeded , I do not know whether it is propaganda , I am sure that  it is his subjective personal private opinion and  by the fact that he is a teacher he has power over students he shares his point of view in this or that way. And I can understand his worrying about young generation, cos he lived in Soviet times and he really has a brilliant education much more better than I have, of course he cherishes old times and can not accept everything which became so americanized in Russia.
A lot of Russian traditions and customs are gone and instead of them came out those halloween, valentine's day, and other American culture bits. Consciously or subconsciously older generation express  negative attitude towards western manipulations and I do not blame them, you might think that I treat USA badly , no am not, ask older generation and find out for yourself how they see americanized grandchildren and kids and the future of their country in general.

You know if so many people see a lot of negative in this or that action, I think it is time to think why they are negative, so there must be a reason for that.....and not only one.

 

[Jazzyclassy]

why you stick up to the media so much and how about personal stories, of people, different life situations, I have some pals who shared ridiculous and shocking facts while communicating with western people not necessarily with americans

I do not watch telly much , I have no time

[KenC]

KenC, there have been enough references to movies and TV shows about Russia.

Shadow,
Not to be picayune, but you did say TV shows and media and the only examples given were movies.
KenC

[Misha]

why you stick up to the media so much and how about personal stories, of people, different life situations, I have some pals who shared ridiculous and shocking facts while communicating with western people not necessarily with americans

I do not watch telly much , I have no time

Again, this reminds me of a conversation that I had with one of my wife's uncles. I had stayed over one night, and her uncle shows up still drunk at 7:00. I am introduced as the zhenikh (fiancé) from Canada. He then launches into a tirade as to how Americans such as me had brought down the Soviet Union and made life miserable for people like him. I was very polite, and did not say what I was thinking. I came close to asking him whether the fact that he was still drunk and had to work in a couple of hours could have played a role in the collapse of the Soviet Union and the problems faced by Russia at the moment?

[Shadow]

Let's see, you have Russia Today TV a wholly state-sponsored television channel that is available on American cable tv where the misconceptions about Russia can be corrected 24/7. How many American funded television stations are available on Russian cable television with the express aim of  "spotlighting the dynamic events taking place in modern day" America? For more info on this station: http://russiatodaytv.com/.

As you might know most Russians do not understand English and there for would not be interested in an American station. Unless it was  translated, which would without doubt bring questions about who translated and how.
In hotels you can view CNN, BBC and a numer of other Western stations, so nyone who understands the language and has a TV station can view this.

By the way I fully agree that they show bad news because bad news sells. There is no difference about that in any country.